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| One of Us |
Looking for opinions on the presses to help in making decision. Not looking to start a brand loyalty fight. Both of these presses have me racking my brain on which would be best for me. I am looking to reload the following calibers: 45ACP, 9MM, and .223Rem. In a long search through the web reading reviews on both presses, I find myself saying ok I am going to get this one, read some more and say ok, I am going to get the other one. These are kind of the pros and cons I have found between both, and hopefully can get some advice/suggestions on making decision. Have even considered the T-7 to eliminate to the need to screwing in the dies--but the price is even higher Foster Co-ax: Pros: *Accurate and unique loading with jaw type shell holder for precise alignment. *One shell holder jaw will fit all 3 calibers I am looking to load. *Consistent primer seating depth. *Quick change slide in die system *Pull down top-mounted handle system with significant leverage. *Primer catcher that eliminates spent primers and carbon falling on bench of floor. *Lifetime Warranty Cons: *Price about $250 (approximately $80 more than Redding BBII) *Primer seating is a slow process using press and involves handling each primer. *The pull down handle functioning most people have found is easier to operate from standing position. If mounted at a level seating position it would seem there would be lots of bending to insert extract shells while loading. Possible ergonomic problem. Redding Big Boss II Pros: *Large opening and offset O-design for making it easy to access shell holder location, and load large calibers. *Spent Primer Collection system. *Offers a slide-bar primer assembly to allow for less handling of primers, however adds approximately $40 to cost bringing it to around $220--still approximately $30 cheaper than Forster Co-ax. *Provides considerable leverage, making sizing easier. *Lifetime Warranty Cons: *Requires shell holders for each caliber. *Large opening makes for longer stroke of handle, which assuming will make for extra work especially loading handgun calibers 45ACP and 9MM. *Requires dies be screwed in, but can accept Hornady Lock-n-load bushings. Which ultimately add to cost of press in comparison. | ||
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For those 3----None Of The Above... Dillon XL650 | |||
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Should have mentioned that in my initial post. I have nothing against Dillon, from everything I have read, they are an excellent company, with great products, and terrific customer service. However, the price of their units is way out of my budget. | |||
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RCBS would be my choice, or the big Corbin, depending on what I was going to do with the press. | |||
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I agree the Dillon is probably the better choice, especially if you will load large amounts of handgun ammo but..... ------------------------------------ The trouble with the Internet is that it's replacing masturbation as a leisure activity. ~Patrick Murray "Why shouldn`t truth be stranger then fiction? Fiction after all has to make sense." (Samual Clemens) "Saepe errans, numquam dubitans --Frequently in error, never in doubt". | |||
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I live in Maine, and reloading for me, would be something to supplement my shooting hobby in the winter months, when I can't get out to shoot due to snow, cold weather, and lack of indoor range. I shoot about 1000 rounds each of 9mm and 45ACP, and a couple hundred rounds of .223Rem during the summer. Which is why I am not overly concerned about fast massive production, as I will have several months to replenish my summer supply. | |||
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for a single press, i have the RCBS supreme setup right now .. for a progressive a hornady LNL AP .. saw it on sale for 365 somewhere .. it takes me about 1 minute per round to load 45LC in my single, timed, 50 rounds, from oncefired to ready .. 50 rounds takes about 10 minutes in any progressive. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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never heard of anyone having a co-ax that wanted anything else. buy the priming tool with it . for large volumes progressives are fine, but for 100 rds or less I'll always go back to the co-ax. takes to damn long to set up the dillon for 100 rds or less | |||
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I would say less than 5% of shooters need the speed/volumn of a 650. Yes I have one, & a 550B, the 650 is just way more press than most need. The 550B is a better value & simpler to use for multiple calibers. If you don't need a lot of ammo quickly, more time than money, then a turret press makes a lot of sense. Fast enough for most handgun needs (150rds/hr) & cheap enough to not break the bank. Look into the Lee turret as well. I like the changeable tool heads for diff calibers. LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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working a co-ax from a seated position is no more effort at all than a Rockchucker or T-7, I know have or have had them plus the co-ax for a long time. I don't prime anything on the press, just to much of a PITA, buy the RCBS universal primer, like the co-ax, don't need shellholders, and it is WAY quicker than any on the press priming for any of the presses you metnion. Spend the extra on the Coax and never look back. | |||
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I voted for the Co-Ax, which is what I use. I would shy away from priming on either press. A hand primer is much more convenient. The Lee Autoprime is good and inexpensive, but will need their special shell holders made just for the autoprime. The RCBS Universal hand primer does not need any shell holders, and works well with a co-ax that does not need them either. It has a larger, easier to load primer tray. But it is more expensive too. Forster also has a hand/bench primer that does not require shell holders. I seriously doubt the BBII has more leverage than the Co-Ax. The tubular grip, fat handle and position of the handle provide multiple hand positions to meet the leverage needs for the operation being performed. I rarely start the stroke with my hand any higher than the top of the yoke, and then slide my hand out along the handle during the stroke to give me more leverage as required. As I raise the handle, my hand returns to the yoke. They offer a shorter, ball-grip handle, which I have tried but did not like. Some prefer it though. While both systems dispose of primers and debris effectively, the priming slot in the BBII ram will allow an occasional errant primer to escape, and the abrasive debris will get into the ram bearing. On the co-ax, the spent primer hole is located far away from the "ram" guide rods and their bearings, keeping them clean. Should you forget to lube a 223 case and stick it in the die, the co-ax shell holder jaws grip the base/rim of the cartridge more securely than a conventional shell holder, and are more likely to remove the case instead of ripping the rim off. I actually prefer the ergonomics of the handle position and motion on the co-ax, but I also load while standing. Both presses have excellent build quality, but the co-ax gets the nod for superior design. Andy | |||
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Thanks for the suggestions and feedback on the presses. Something of particular importance to me is the priming ability. I've dealt with Rheumatoid Arthritis since age 7, now at the age of 29, I've found in the brief introduction to reloading and priming with a Lee Auto-Prime, that my wrists cannot take the stress of repeatedly squeezing in primers. So the primer function of the press, which kind of attracted me to the Redding BBII, with slide bar primer. I had heard priming on the Forster Co-ax is not one of it's most convenient features. Where I am not looking for mass volume, and have time, I don't see it as a massive drawback (although I would love to see a video of the press priming.) However, my concern with the Forster priming is having to handle all the primers. | |||
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I think the Bonanza Co Ax loads the most concentric ammo using 7x48 dies. It primes just fine, however, if I am loading a bunch of ammo I just use a seperate RCBS priming machine. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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9mm? .45 ACP? .223? With these short cartridges you are handicapping yourself with a large, powerful compound leverage press that has enough throat to reload a .416 Rigby. Buy the simplest, cheapest, and if necessary used "C"-frame press you can find (ebay is a good source.) You probably won't have to pay over $25 for a good used one or $50 for a new one (or less). The C-frame press allows you better access to the round in the shellholder and is overall much handier than the big "O's". Lee and RCBS (and others) make "entry" level presses which will do EVERYTHING you need to do with any of these calibers and do it equally as well as the expensive presses you name. An aluminum frame is fine. I've been reloading for 45 years and own some of the finest equipment made, but I wouldn't give you an extra nickel for an expensive press for the calibers you intend to load. I use the Lee Auto Prime for most calibers, but I understand your problem with arthritis. For the few calibers that I don't use the Auto Prime, I prefer Lee's press-mounted priming tool. With this tool, you screw a shellholder adapter into the 7/8x14 hole, then mount a primer punch mechanism where the shellholder goes. It does an excellent job, though a little slow. But from your description of your needs, a little slow is not a problem. Save a couple of hundred bucks you would spend on a press and use it to SHOOT MORE AMMUNITION! | |||
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try the forster priming tool, it works and shouldn't bother your hands. I used to argue with clarence purdie about priming, he loved the priming on the press because of its consistency, and i liked the feel my primers going in. ( clarence was sort of the inventor) | |||
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 I have two and a Hornady LNL. I shoot more rifle and the co-ax is plenty fast enough.Haven't used the LNL for 3-4 years . | |||
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Given the arthritis issue have you considered an RCBS bench type primer set up? It might be a good trade off for you. I have five Dillons and thing they are the cats pajamas. However, I have been lusting after one of those T7's for a while now. I just think they look very handy. I've got a pair of Lyman AA Turrets that do the same thing but that big top sure would make loading the 223 family cases easy. Greg | |||
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As someone posted, you don't need a press with the capacity to turn a 55 gallon drum into a 22-250 case. Any of the single stage, medium sized presses will do fine for you. most of them will have a priming attachment. I've been reloading for 40+ years and I have never had a real need for one of the homongous sized presses. Nor for any sort of press that offered a shortcut in reloading. That time span includes reducing 30-06 brass to 22-250 brass just for fun and a lot of necking up and down. I shoot between 4 and 5K rounds a year, as a vague average, and they're all loaded on a single stage press. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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I had been looking at the RCBS Rockchucker and Hornady Lock-n-Load, and did like the looks of these presses. I started learning on my father-in-laws RCBS JR3, and after seeing how the de-primer cup missed most of the primer, the collection system is what steared me towards the Redding Big Boss II. Plus the lifetime warranty. | |||
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Ah, if you have problems with arthritis in your hands/wrists, then a bench primer from RCBS or Forster would be best. That way your press is not encumbered by the priming arm & tube when you don't need it. If you are getting the BBII, then the RCBS bench primer would work well (both press and priming tool use shell holders. If you get the co-ax, then the Forster bench primer would be better, since neither uses shell holders. Here is a picture of it:  Andy | |||
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I wouldn't get any of those presses for those calibers either. If a Dillon 550 is out of your financial ballpark, think about getting a C-H '444' H press. It has four stations and a auto primer and powder measure can be added to it. The manufacturer says you can load up to 200-rounds an hour. That number might be a bit high, but I am confident one person can load >100-rounds an hour of pistol if using carbide dies.  The cost is $254 for the press. The auto primer is another $57 and I imagine you can hang any powder measure off it if you don't want to use theirs. www.ch4d.com Member: Orange Gunsite Family, NRA--Life, Varmint Hunters' Assn., ARTCA, and American Legion. "An armed society is a polite society" --Robert Heinlein via Col. Jeff Cooper, USMC Caveat Emptor: Don't trust *Cavery Grips* from Clayton, NC. He is a ripoff. | |||
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Thanks for posting about the C&H press. Now I have to get one. I've only got seven metallic presses on the bench right now but his one would add some small run/job flexibility to my set up. Greg | |||
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Thanks everyone for the continued sharing of ideas. The CH 444 sent me on a couple hours of internet research this morning. It is truely as unique as the Forster, and just as pricey at $254.29 exlcuding shipping. Their 444-X Pistol Champ is neat looking set up with powder measure and priming assembly, but to convert it to 9mm or 45, depending on whichever setup you start with, is $95.85. In a comparison of press with priming systems, this is where they stand with prices. Forster press with Forster Primer: +/- $300 shipped Redding Big Boss II w/Redding Primer Slide arm: +/- $218 shipped Redding Big Boss II w/RCBS Automatic Bench Primer: +/- $257 shipped Redding T7 w/Redding Primer Slide Arm: +/- $303 shipped Redding T7 w/RCBS Automatic Bench Primer: +/- $337 shipped CH-4D 444 w/ CH Automatic Primer Feeder: +/- $311 plus shipping | |||
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novalty any one of those will let you build good ammo. I have used a Forster and a own a Big Boss II and my rifles shoot the same with ammo made with ether press. Alan | |||
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I love my Dillon 550 for progressive stuff and occasional rifle loading. I love my RCBS Partner for seperate bullet seating. My little Lee is great for back up duty like pulling bullets. My Co-Ax simply kicks butt, kills the competion, buries it, digs it up and kills it again. I don't prime on the Co-Ax. I use the Lee handheld for "all" my priming. Alan  | |||
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Member: Orange Gunsite Family, NRA--Life, Varmint Hunters' Assn., ARTCA, and American Legion. "An armed society is a polite society" --Robert Heinlein via Col. Jeff Cooper, USMC Caveat Emptor: Don't trust *Cavery Grips* from Clayton, NC. He is a ripoff. | |||
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After all the reviews, suggestions, research and comments, I am leaning towards the Forster Co-ax. After watching one of the T7 demonstration videos on YouTube, I believe the increased stroke distance of the handle would be a burden when it came to reloading small cases like the 9mm and 45acp. My biggest question now, for those that own the Forster Co-ax and reload 45acp, did you have to buy any addition parts with the press. Forster has this posted on their site: "NOTE: Special top (set of 3) jaws and bottom (set of 2) jaws are required for the 45 Auto rim." | |||
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Listen here, you young whipper-snapper! I told you not to go spend all of that money. With that expensive (though certainly excellent) Co-ax you're going to spend a bundle, then have to buy dedicated lock rings for every die you own. No wonder this country is going broke. You young folks insist on spending enough money for a family vacation to buy fancy stuff when you could cobble together perfectly good equipment at garage sale prices. (Grumble, grumble, grumble. It's not easy being old and grumpy and impatient and having young squirts toss money around like it was confetti. Grumble, grumble, grumble. Did I tell you how far I had to walk to school when I was a kid? And how I had to milk my own cow and then sell the cream to buy pencils for school? Grumble, grumble, grumb . . . .  | |||
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Stonecreek, what press would you suggest with a lifetime warranty, and primer collection system. | |||
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Lifetime warranty? 1. I've never seen a press break. 2. If it did, you wouldn't remember where to go to excersise the warranty, even if the company were still in business. And if you could remember, they would only require you to pay to ship your old, 40-lb press to them, and charge you shipping and insurance to ship the replacement back to you. All of which is enough to just go and buy a new press. Primer collector system? Ain't you got no younguns that can crawl around the floor and pick them up like shirt buttons?  | |||
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Ok, point taken on warranty. However, the primer collection system is important to me, as I have experienced the "where'd it go" primer feature from an RCBS JR3. Spent time searching for primers in carpet, when I could have been reloading. I do have a youngster, but I don't think having spent primers laying around on the floor for a 2 year old is the healthiest option. I have searched eBay for used presses, but from everything I see people are bidding them up to pretty much buying new prices, when you include in shipping. | |||
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Okay, I take back some of my old man grumbling. You've actually been shopping around and have become a little frustrated about what's available on the used market. That's understandable. Actually the RCBS Jr. is a pretty good press for what you are loading. It has a short stroke that is plenty for the rounds you're loading. Like many presses of its generation, the designers didn't think too hard about where the spent primers would go. They offered a plastic shroud which ties on with rubber bands to catch "many" of the primers. Lots of them escaped to reach the floor, the space under the desk, and crevices under the baseboards. And to be consumed by tots who happened across the nice, shiney little morsels. (Tell the baby's mama that since they don't use mercury in primers any more that those harmless little shiney cups will just slide right out at the next diaper change without causing undue distress to the subject child.) I haven't shopped for presses with primer disposal in mind, but I really like my Redding T-7's plastic tube that you can shunt into any handy disposal container. I would assume that the Redding Boss has a similar system, so you might check it out. It will be a little less pricey than the Co-ax. Good luck! And teach that two-year old to help dad with reloading as soon as he/she is old enough to stack brass in reloading trays. They absolutely love doing that! | |||
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To Long ?. .223 or ? 7 mm Rem Mag .338 Win Mag , In 2.5 minutes ,if I fumble and am really slow 5 minutes TOPS !. Extra fully set up Tool heads and Powder measure are essential for quick transitions as the only other thing required is changing the shell plate . So undo the powder activation rod clip , pull two pins remove tool head stroke ram part way upwards loosen Allen set screw turn out shoulder bolt remove shell plate , now reverse order with new caliber . As for Pistol it's no different !. I use my XL650 for pistol now days , as I got a deal I couldn't even refuse . I guess 5 Minutes is a long time for some folks ?. Oh and a little extra time for primer size or type change .  | |||
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Don't worry about the Old Man Grumbling, I'm only 29, and most of my friends say I do the same thing. Redding's Big Boss II has the same primer collection system as the T7, I really like the looks and functionality of both presses. For the frugal part of me, yes I said frugal and am looking at high priced presses, I have been looking at Cabelas as I have one 45 minutes from me, and they offer the Redding T7 and Forster Coax. So it would be easier for me to decide between the two, as I can use one of their promotions that I get frequently, and use my "Cabelas' Points", plus free shipping to store. These are the reasons I was leaning towards the Forster. 1: No having to buy shell holders. If I bought the BBII or T7, I would have to buy 3 shellholders bring the total price up about $20 give or take. 2: The Forster priming system was my biggest concern at first, but it is the same as the BBII, and T7, where you have to handle the primers, but I think it makes up for it in the reviews of it seating correctly everytime. 3: This I think was the factor that is make me lean towards the Forster. I watched a couple Redding T7 videos on YouTube, and the long travel of the arm to function the press is the same as the BBII. The Forster arm doesn't seem to have quite as cumbersome of travel when mounted at standard bench height, plus it would be out of reach of my youngster. Think the last Cabelas postcard promotion I received was $30 of purchases of $200-299, which would bring the Forster to around $220, and the cheapest I can find a Redding Big Boss II shipped is about $180, if you add in $20 in shellholders for the calibers I will be reloading it makes it closer to $200. Speak of the devil, got a $20 off coupon in the mail today from Cabelas. | |||
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45 Auto (ACP)is rimless, and 45 Auto rim is rimmed, and are two different cartridges...the auto rim case was used in revolvers to alleviate the necessity of moon clips with the rimless 45 ACP cartridge. If you select the co-ax, look into also buying Forster's short handle...it will make loading those pistol cases much easier as it effectively shortens the press stroke. Re: sitting or standing while using the co-ax. The mechanical advantage of that press is such that you can easily resize those pistol cases with one finger. I use a drafting chair which has a gas shock to adjust seating height, from low like a secretary's chair to high like a high chair...which I can adjust for the different press operations if I like. Or to vary my arm movements if a very long session. Also, although I took off the included priming parts right after I bought my co-ax because I use a hand primer, it is at the very top of the press...nothing in the way to hamper the process. I loaded for decades with a press-mounted priming arm and handling every primer with my fingers. I don't understand what the worry is...that you'll get resizing lube on the primer compound? That shouldn't happen if you have clean hands and prime every case as its own operation. Now if your arthritis hinders you handling such small objects, that's a different story. Then a off-press priming tool which uses a feeding tube would be warranted. | |||
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Onefunzr2, thank you for posting the info. and straightening me out on the 45 Auto rim. Glad to know I won't have to purchase additional parts to reload that round. Appreciate the feedback on the reloading while sitting. From watching some reloading done on the T7, I was concerned it's long stroke motion would become a hinderance for the rounds I am reloading. Since it appears that I will be getting the Co-ax, I will probably stick to priming on the press, and look for something else, if it doesn't appear to work for me--but as much as I will be reloading I don't believe it will. The handling issue seems to be a concern with oil from your hand affecting the primer. | |||
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I've never used the excellent Co-ax press, but if I recall, it has a rather long stoke, almost 180 degrees from full up to full down. The arc of the stroke on the Reddings should be less, not more (but like I say, while I know the Reddings, I don't know the Co-ax that well.) By the way, when "at rest" the Redding handle rests in the upright position also. As to shellholders, you already own all of the shellholders you need. Those for your RCBS Jr. fit the Redding exactly the same. You'll spend more for Co-ax compatible locking rings. Can't blame you for wanting to use the Cabela's coupons, but you could use them for bullets, primers, powder, etc. just as well. In real life I'm the local D.A. -- Devil's Advocate. | |||
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The reloading I did on the RCBS JR3 was with my father-in-law's equipment. I currently don't have a press or dies. Was fortunate to have a friend donate a reloading RCBS reloading block, RCBS deburring tool, and LEE primer pocket cleaner to my cause. Right now I am looking to pick up a press, then move on to: dies, powder measure, scale, etc, etc. | |||
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novalty, for loading small cartridges such as 9mm, 45ACP and .223 you are vastly over thinking the demands on a press. To put it in perspective for a truck, you only need a Jap four cylinder half ton pick-up but are agonizing over choices equal to Ford-Chevy-Dodge ton and three quarters, eight cylinder, turbo charged, 4x4 diesels! A great press - in fact a better choice, IMHO - for you would be a Lee Classic Turret. It is large and strong enough to load .50BMG if you wish but the fully adjustable lever will also allow for easy use with your very small cases. You can use it as a single stage when learning or doing experiments and then use the auto-index feature when you want more volume. You can swap out the simple turret heads in seconds without tools. Lee's heads are inexpensive so you can have your dies preset and ready to use for whatever cartridge you wish and swap over in less than a minute. The press cost is MUCH less than those you ae considering and you will lose nothing to the others. In fact, you would GAIN a lot of flexibilty. Just some perspective from an old hand. | |||
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The Lee CT will NOT LOAD 50BMG! Their misleading ad says it can load cartridges as long as 50 BMG, but no such cartridges exist that use dies that can fit in the LCT. The LCC can load 50BMG, but not the LCT. Generally if $$ is an issue, I recommend the LCC. Yes, most all presses will do a decent job of reloading. Better presses just make it easier and more enjoyable, if you can afford them. The Redding BBII offers nothing over the LCC but more $$, so if $$ is an issue, the BBII is not a good deal. If $$ is not an issue, the Co-Ax is simply a better designed, better built reloading press. Novalty, if you want the co-ax, don't let these curmudgeons dissuade you, get what YOU want. Andy | |||
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