A friend of mine recently told me he was going to purchase a Savage 10FP in the 7mm-08. I personally feel that it is a mistake to spend the money on such a poor gun. I suggest that he spend a little more money and go with used action and get it rebarreled. What do you think?

The most accurate out of the box rifle I've ever had is a Savage 112 in 22-250. A buddy shoot's a box stock 10FP in .223 in Benchrest, he's never won, but got real close. The Savage is an absolute bargain!!

My buddy wrote the first post while i was away from the computer under my user name. He is a big Ruger fan and is trying to talk me into trying a Ruger for my next gun. He has a bad stereotype of Savage and needs to be schooled on the finer points of the Savege rifle. Thanks, Tyler.

Most people consider Savage bolt action rifles to be ugly, but they are inexpensive and are usually incredibly good shooters -- better shooters than guns costing twice the price or more.

Tell your buddy to check out the reviews of the Savage110FP and the 12FVSS on www.gunshot.com. Also in the 2001 Outdoor Life Gear Review they tested the 12VSS in 22-250 that comes from factory with Choate Ultimate Varmint stock and Sharp Shooter trigger. If my memory serves me correctly its average group size was about 3/4 of an inch at 100yards(4 different shooters with 2-5 shot groups each)and a best group of 5/16 of an inch with factory ammunition!(winchester super x, I think). If that is a jack handle I'll go no further then the local garage for my next rifle.

Although it outperformed the others guns reviewed they didn't figure it was pretty enough. They must sufer the same affliction that your buddy does.

I personally wouldn't trade one savage for a whole truckload of rugers. On average most savages shoot MUCH better than a comparable ruger. Pretty is as pretty does.

I wouldn't take a Ruger anything to a rock fight. I bought a Blackhawk revolver out of necessity....and it sucks as well. I'm on Savage number 4 and going on 5.

I actually own the rifle of which howitzer speaks, I have personally gotten to shoot .5in at 100 yards and under 3inches at 400 yards. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't come close to what my custom 700 can do, but their is just a slight different **sarcasm** in price between a Savage and a top of the line HighPower rifle.
So if you want a good out the box rifle, you can't beat a Savage.

If you want my Savages, you will have a fight on your hands.

If one already had a used Model 700 it would be cheaper to get it rebarreled as it already has an easily adjusted, very crisp trigger.* Not to drop names any more, but Pac-Nor will true the action and put a superbly accurate barrel on it for about $420. Put a medium varmint weight Pac-Nor chambered for 7mm-08 on a good 700 action and if you can't shoot sub-half inch groups with some regularity then it would definitely be the shooter's fault.

If one does not have a used M700 then the Savage is the least expensive way to get a very good chance at a very accurate rifle.

This was my dilemna. I was about to plunk down $500 plus for a 12BVSS-S when Savage discontinued these single shots. Instead I think I will get my M700 short action rebarreled.

*Yes - I know the issues surrounding the Remington trigger. But for a rifle to be used for varmints or range work I haven't found anything better short of a $200 Jewell.

[This message has been edited by Jim in Idaho (edited 02-09-2002).]

the only Savage I will ever own is a 99...they were and are a fine rifle.

I wouldn't be caught dead with one of their bolt actions. just my opinnion

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

They are as Ugly as hell and I don't think I would buy one, but I have not seen one shoot bad. In fact they seem to be more accurate the remingtons out of the box. I did contiplate buying one, but got a good deal on a TIKKA.

Ugly rifles indeed but they sure do make for some pretty targets and "Wall Hangers".

You just can`t beat them for the price,,no
out of the box Ruger will come close,,you
only need to try it to see.,,,,,Roger 4

I've got both a Savage and a Ruger, and wouldn't give up either of them.

Dave

There's nothing wrong with Savage rifles.
Everyone keeps saying "out of the box" they're accurate. Okay.
They're ugly. No, just different.
Wouldn't buy one? Fine.
Fact is, most rifles used in the field are shot in "out of the box" condition. The odd person gets a trigger job or a replacement stock for his rifle, but again, most of the Rem, Win, Savage etc. rifles run pretty much stock.
I own a couple of Savages. They work. No magic. I would also say that about most every other rifle I own. They work. No magic.
Now, if you want to start an interesting discussion that will cause people's blood to boil, tell them that a Remington is probably one of the worst "out of the box" rifles. For what you get "out of the box" compared to other companies, they're overpriced trash. The only thing they've got going for them is a (deteriorating) reputation. They are malleable though. You have to spend $100s or $1000s of dollars to make them shoot...

Then there's comp guns...

Safe Shooting!
Steve Redgwell
303british.com

Savage rifles?
NOT my cup of Tea at all. Wouldn't want one even if they gave it to me. Better to save the cash and buy something of higher quality.

/JOHAN

My list of rifles to buy does not include the Ruger. The two major reasons are the vast majority of Ruger rifles made shoot very poor groups even with reloads. Also you must use Ruger rings to mount your scope and that is a poor set up on any rifle. You want an action that is drilled and tapped to accept any scope mounts you choose to install. If you have the action, other than Ruger, to rebarrel then a custom made rifle should shoot better depending on the rifle builder. All custom rifle makers are not equal in ability. I would choose Krieger, Hart, Shilen, Lilja as the barrel maker. These four barrel makers are the kings in the barrel making business. If money is an issue, then the Savage rifle is your best buy accurcay wise and cost wise in the 12FV or 10FP modles. Both those Savage rifles have a heavy target barrel and do produce very good accuracy at the least cost. A good source of information in the production of Savage rifles tells me Douglas barrels of West Virginia supplies Savage with barrels. Savage can't produce them fast enough to meet the demand for their rifles.

I have rugers remingtons winchesters savages some custom mausers ect. The savages are the most accurate out of the box I have seen. I use mine for varmit hunting they work great for that. But I have had to many feeding problems with them to recommend them as a big game rifle.

My stock Savage in 22-250 will shoot .3" groups at 100yds, with Win factory ammo. It sure makes Crows disintegrate! I have the 110FP in .223, I bought it when they first came out as I remember it was only about $300. It has a 1 in 9 twist so it likes heavy bullets, I mostly use it for a plinker with cheap milsurp fmj's, but it will put 10 inside a inch at 100yds.

I bought a left handed 110 in 300 Win. mag when Savage first introduced them.
Installed a Fajen custom stock to help it's looks.
Would shoot 2 inch groups at 200 yards all day long. (Handloads)
Sold it a few years back to finance another gun purchase, bad mistake.
Roger

Yup, I hate my savage 10fp-308.
I just cant seem to get my groups "over" an inch at 100 yards, unless I close my eyes.

I cant tell where my bullets are hitting the target cause they keep going thru the same hole.

If any of you have rec's, I am loking for a rifle that will print "separate" hole with each shot so I can see what it is doing!
Any suggestions?

$
RAF

I have a freind who carries a blown up Savage 110 in his trunk. He got it from the police as evidence in some injury thing.

I never talk to my friend about my Savage 110 . There is no use arguing with a Savage hater.

Savage guns are accurate.

But they lack all of the esthetics and class which makes a fine rifle enjoyable.

Thanks for all the input guys. I am going to order up the 10fp today in 7mm-08. My bud says he will have to see it shoot to beleve it, witch i will be more then happy to do for him. Got a price quote of $365.00 from my favorite gun shop but am going to call around a bit for a few other quotes, though they have been hard to beat in the past.

The only Savages I have owned are 99's and a top break rifle in .22 Hornet that I sold long ago. You Hornet fans should look for that one as I think it's the only almost accurate Hornet ever made.

Savage rifles do have class. The 99 Savage stands with the top rifles ever made.

I don't like the way the Savage looks, true. And I sure as hell can't stand the "feel" of the action when you work the bolt, I mean YUK! C'mon man, it feels like someone made it in jr. high shop class!

I will admit that they are obcenely accurate, for a factory gun, and even though the looks/feel is horrible, I have been sorely tempted to buy one in a heavy barrel 223 or 220 swift for coyotes. My brother has had one in 30-06 for over 10 years, and I hate how accurate it is! Makes it hard to justify building another custom mauser for 5 times the price!

I've owned both Savage and Ruger rifles. They both shot as well as I needed them to. The Ruger was prettier and ended up as my impress 'em rifle. I liked huntin' with the Savage cause I wasn't worried about the scratches. If you don't like either one, I don't care.

I've got a m12 savage in .223 and it is highly accurate,shoots any load I put through it,the only real hitch is it feeds shells poorly and I don't know if the sporter weight are any better. But accuracy is the best. I recently bought a ruger M77 S/S in 30/06. After having the trigger adjusted since the original was to heavy,I proceeded to have two misfires out of a factory box of twenty. All primer marks were shallow on fired rounds and those that didn't go off. I took the rifle into my gunsmith and he took the bolt apart and found that the firing pin had some ridges on it just behind the taper. He ran the pin on a polishing wheel and it fixed the problem. However the accuaracy still isn't on par with my savage and if I didn't have a good smith that gives a shit about his customers,I would have went through all the bullshit of sending the rifle to ruger and having them send it back unfixed. I've got a feeling that the limited run of ruger whelens that weren't firing properly,had the same problem. Maybe ruger investment casts their firing pins to . Basically I paid a hundred dollars more for the ruger and still had trouble,at least the savage is a tack driver.

John, my .223 doesn't feed great either, but the 22-250 feeds great, and I dont know what anybody is talking about the bolt isnt smooth.

Over the last 10 years the quality of Savage rifles has come up, in the last 3 years I've had opportunity to load and test savages and rugers out of the box, a savage can't be beat. ugly? ah maybe, but then so were some of the girls I used to bring home, least the savage will perform when you need it to )
Wes

A bit off subject but does anyone know the BC for a Sierra 168gr. HPBT MatchKing in 7mm?

BearLake,
DON'T UNLEASH THE MONSTER!!!
KEEP SMK QUESTIONS INSIDE ITS' OWN THREAD. FOR SAFETY REASONS. WE DON'T WANT ANYONE TO GET HURT!!!

That said, to answer your question:

.488 @ and above 2800fps
.494 between 2800 and 2000fps
.484 @ 2000fps and below

Taken from www.sierrabullets.com

OK. Lets see how many people I can make mad today.

In many years of professional gunsmithing (meaning I made my living at it) I never had a Savage come in for an accuracy problem. They are ugly, cheap rifles, which have no right to shoot as accurate as they do. In my opinion this is due to a good quality barrel and decent machining.

Ruger is a cheap made firearm with pleasing looks but with absolutely crap workmanship. Meaning anything that can be stamped by machine or components cast in mass quantities constitutes their manufacturing expertise. Their strait stock design guarantees to recoil more than any other rifle of like caliber and the political CYA policies of Bill Ruger almost guarantees you will never see any of his trigger assemblies used in competitive accuracy shooting. A Ruger is an all or nothing deal. They shoot good out of the box, or you can never make them shoot good. Tie a rope on a Ruger and you have a trotline anchor.

Might as well get some angry responses from Weatherby fans. I own around a dozen absolutely beautiful Weatherbys that are all wall hangers because they don�t shoot.

Buy the cheapest Remington 700 you can find in the caliber you want. If it doesn�t shoot now, any shade tree gunsmith can make it shoot with a little work.

Shoot safe,
Mike

Can't argue with anthing you said.
Just to repeat, most people don't get their Savages, Remingtons or whatever worked over. The folks that do have work done, get the std trigger job, recoil pad or other minor work.
It's a pity that despite unmodified Savages or Winchesters shooting as well or better than comparable Remingtons, big green still continues to sucker people into buying their product.
Innovation? How about a 710? The latest high tech answer to new millenium fenceposts.

If you're going to do major surgery and build a comp gun, the Remington has the lion's share of the aftermarket action. Find a used one, throw away most of what came with it and pay big bucks to work it into fighting form.
If you want a varmint/hunting rig, buy a savage and take the money you saved and invest it in decent optics and a trigger job.

Whatever happened to value for your dollar?

Safe Shooting!
Steve Redgwell
303british.com

Steve, 2ndaryexplosioneffect,

If you want to fight the good fight on two fronts almost this exact thread is being hashed out on the varmint hunting forum.

Also Steve I saw what might be your favourite gun today. A 303 British made by Savage for the lend-lease program of WWII. It had never been fired!

[This message has been edited by howitzer (edited 02-10-2002).]

You folks are fortunate to have Savage guns.

Some people on this planet don't even have food...I mean Savage guns : Though Savage is based in Canada, they have to make rifles to fit the US market first. My 10FP in .223rem will be on a 3~4 month waiting list, if I insist on a left-hand model it's even longer
:P

Pretty to me isn't how the rifle looks, its how the rifle's groups look! By that standard Savages look pretty darned good! Good night.

I've had Remingtons, and was never impressed by them, now take a Mark X Mauser with a factory barrel in any caliber, free float the barrel and glass bed it, now you have an accurate rifle, that won't break on you!

The only Rugers I own are handguns, they do make a great handgun for the money. I dont like there rifles, they shoot terrible. The only one ive ever owned , many years ago, was such a lousy shooter I brought it back.

Ive been looking for one of the old Savage 99's, in .308. They are the rifles that really "made" that company. I had a Savage 22 that was just horrible ; I mean horrible, and in every way.

I threw it back at the gunshop and bought my 8yo a Mrlin little buckaroo............good shooting..........10