i have a single stage prss, but am looking to get a progressive press. i have see the lee turret presses, but would like one that i could reload rifle (30-06, 8x57, etc0 on as well as loading pistol rounds on. anyone have any recommendations? i dont want to spend a small fortune on one, something affordable, but reliable. thanks!

I really like both your avatar and your location description. In the southern jurisdiction your avatar might be the 18th degree. Is it the same in the northern jurisdiction?

I have used a Hornady progressive press for over 20 years. The new Hornady LNL AP presses have improvements over my old press. The Hornady is built like a tank, backed by GREAT service, and even comes with 1000 free bullets. You can spend more money on a press but I don't think you can buy a better press.

here's my thoughts
you WANT it to be auto indexing,
that basically means the new hornady lnl and the dillon 650, to cover 30-06 down to pistol

I have the dillon square deal, and the new hornady LNL, the Dillion sd press is only used for pistol

the hornady is a GREAT press .. the bushing system kicks tail... and is HARD to find. If someone had told me to save my money and just buy the LnL, rather than single stage, I would have shot at least 10X the ammount i have

my advice - get the shellplates you need first.. don't get caught up in the hype and pay $100 for a shell plate 16 .. just wait, place a backorder, and it WILL come.

you need at least shell plate 1, for .473/30-06 sized cases

you may as well order 20 each bushings -- count 2.5 bushing per set of dies you use

grafs and midsouth are great suppliers for most of these

then you'll have to HUNT down the press.

best of luck

dillon 650

quote:

Originally posted by byf42:
...anyone have any recommendations? i dont want to spend a small fortune on one, something affordable, but reliable. thanks!

If initial price is your only criteria, then count out Dillon which are certainly reliable, have excellent service after the sale and owner satisfaction. But not cheap by any stretch of the imagination. Remember: “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.”

I've used my SDB for over a decade and like its auto indexing feature for pumping out quantities of pistol ammo. It's almost like pumping out shotshells...wham, bam, thank you, madame. But I actually like the manual indexing of the 550B when loading precision rifle reloads. But then I'm not using a progressive press to hammer out mass quantities of rat, tat, tat-ing ammo for use in a semi-auto rifle.

I depends on how you load. I like turret presses but I turn by hand. I size, then expand for revolver brass or just size rifle brass, then clean primer pockets. Then I charge with a good measure or weigh charges with certain powders in a loading block. Then back to the press to seat.
But I only want my guns to be accurate, not shoot as fast as I can make noise.
I would never own a press that turns by itself unless I just shot a 9mm or .45 ACP for steel shooting. Then they are great.
You have to decide what press for what you want to do.
I have the Lee and it works but I took out the thing that turns it and turn it by hand.
Mostly I use a Lyman turret but the Hornady is great as are a bunch of them like Redding, etc.
I like one that I turn so I have control of every single load.

Dillon....550. you get what you pay for.

A turret press is not a progressive. sure takes a long time to unscrew a die and insert another you keep it simple one step at a time and there are no mistakes

"dillon 550" is NOT auto indexing, and you DO get what you pay for. Either get a 650 or a hornady LnL .. the 550, if you are loading pistol ammo, is a waste of NOT spending the other $100-150 bucks and not getting the 650 or LNL (at the same prive)

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
"dillon 550" is NOT auto indexing, and you DO get what you pay for. Either get a 650 or a hornady LnL .. the 550, if you are loading pistol ammo, is a waste of NOT spending the other $100-150 bucks and not getting the 650 or LNL (at the same prive)

Some people, like me, prefer non-indexing and don't find it a real impediment to volume reloading. I agree that the 650 would be the best choice for someone who wants/needs auto-index, but I don't think a person just getting into a progressive can go wrong with a 550. If he decides later he needs a 650, he can probably get most/all/more of his money back out of it.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
"dillon 550" is NOT auto indexing, and you DO get what you pay for. Either get a 650 or a hornady LnL .. the 550, if you are loading pistol ammo, is a waste of NOT spending the other $100-150 bucks and not getting the 650 or LNL (at the same prive)

Not really. I can load 500rds/hr on my 550B, that certainly is faster than any turret or single stage & rivals the autoindexing machines. The 550B is a great press for the guy, like me, that loads for 11 diff. calibers. The ease of changing over & lower cost of setups makes it a bargain for 500rds/hr. The 650 is a great press, I have often thought of selling one of my 550B to get one, but it would be setup to just load 45acp in higher volumns.

Guys, compare the 650 to the LnL, not the 550 -- while the 550 is a good press, i PERSONALLY would not buy a non indexing progressive, as I load alot of pistol, and I am NOT interested in the real risk of a double charge.

The LNL, like the 650, can do any 7/8x14 thread dies, and it just plain works.

There's even a case and (aftermarket) bullet feeder for them

Frankly, for the same money, ***IT IS MY OPINOIN**** i did not did not find it compelling to buy the 550 vs the LNL, and I didn't want to spend the additional money to get the 650.

With a SDB on my bench, right next to my LnL, I could not "force" myself to buy a 550 (less machine) than the hornady

and, that you can get 1000 bullets (of a somewhat limited, though more than dillon's, choice) makes the NET price of the LnL to be about $150 bucks..

No, SERIOUSLY ...

its about $450 for an LnL and a shellplate.
the bullets can go all the way tup to like $302 bucks worth

Which parts of a Dillon can you buy for $150

I wouldn't buy a progressive that wasn't made by Dillon. I got burned by another major brand...............................DJ

quote:

Guys, compare the 650 to the LnL, not the 550 -- while the 550 is a good press, i PERSONALLY would not buy a non indexing progressive, as I load alot of pistol, and I am NOT interested in the real risk of a double charge.

This is exactly correct. A press that autoindexes is far less likely to double charge.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
I really like both your avatar and your location description. In the southern jurisdiction your avatar might be the 18th degree. Is it the same in the northern jurisdiction?

sir- no, the avatar is just one i added that i found on here... i'm not in the order so to speak. as for my location, if you lived here, you'd understand completely. take care!

wow! thanks for all the replies. a couple of questions-

1) auto indexing, that is where every time you pull the handle, the shell plate moves to the next station, right? not trying to be stupid, but i have NO experience with progressive presses.

2) i looked on hornady's website, and they have no lock and load AP's available, i would have to hunt down a dealer which here is next to impossible. i do like the hornady press though

3) if the press has auto indexing, cant you turn that off?

4) djpaintless, what brand of press did you "get burned by"

5) does lee offer anything that would serve my requirements, such as their turret press?

thanks!

auto indexing is when you move the handle, the shells move, too.

it took me about a month to find mine .. a friend took a little less

you can't turn off auto indexing, and in the case of hornady, you can remove any/all cases, for any possible positon, except when the cases are in the dies

lee? they make 2 different levels of presses, and I passed them over, based on product reviews and a plastic priming setup


if you decide on a hornady you MUST, currently, stop immediately and clean off spilled powder .. no, really, STOP and remove the shell plate, and clean off .. this takes 30 seconds, 1 allen wrench, and done

jeffe

after you use a 650 you will realize that the lee is a POS. the one thing that is most important about progressives is that you have to concentrate on what you're doing. there's no such thing as watching a football game out of one eye. one little mistake and you screw up the sequencing

quote:

Originally posted by byf42:
5) does lee offer anything that would serve my requirements, such as their turret press?

1. No turret press is a progressive press.

Personally, I'd rather own a good turret press than a cheap progressive.

I reloaded and still do on a RCBS single stage. I use if for my centerfire rifle loads.

I recently spent the coin for a 650 for 9mm and .223.

Wow is an understatement. It is proving to be well worth the money.

I have a Redding single stage that I do all my rifle ammo on, and a Dillon 550B for handgun ammo. I don't work fast, even with the Dillon I only do a couple hundred rounds an hour, but it is a lot faster than doing handgun ammo on a single stage.

I really like the 550B. I load a variety of handgun ammo on it. It's very easy to work with and relatively fast to change calibers.

I adjust the measure to get close, then trickel to weight every charge for rifle ammo. I've gotten the adaptor to be able to pour individual charges in rifle ammo on the 550B, but never really saw the need to load enough of it to make it worth doing it on the Dillon.

If I had a black rifle or two that might be different, but for bolt action varmint rifles, I want the precision that goes with the single stage press ind weighing every charge.

Fitch

I just threw my Lee turrets in the bone pile. They did ok for the years I used them, but they were flexomatics, not good for great accuracy. If you want something that is rock solid and still flexible as far as calibers and use, get a Redding T7. A turret with 7 holes. Now I have a Dillon 550 and the T7, and am as happy as a pig in mud.

IMO a 550 is more then enought press for rifle loads sure you have to turn the plate but there a lot faster then a single stage I use mine for just what I call sage rat calibers 22, 243 30 carbine sure I would like to have a 650 but i'm retired and really don't have the $$$ to invest it one so the 550 works just fine.

When talking pistol the Dillon SDB is great and the price is not bad, now the dies are another story glad mine is 10 years old and I don't need any more dies.

I still use my SS rock chucker for 25-06 and up.

You turret guys please answer this question how many of you put in 2 or 3 dies and take a case from start to finish without stopping or taking it out of the press, I had a turret press and saw no benefit in it was no faster then a SS but cost more to let you think it's faster.

1.size & deprime then I measure case, tumble, chamfer mouth, clean primer pocket.

2.Hand prime.

3.Powder & seat bullets.

So do you guys with a turret press skip most of #1 & #2 and never take your brass out of the shell holder after Size & Deprime....

To cover rifle AND pistol

these are STREET prices, not list

Dillion 550 - BARE, not auto indexing, $365, NO DIES no shell plate, no nothing

Hornady LnL AP - $399 , no shell plate, auto indexing ...

Dillion 650 $529

If you take out the price of 1000 "free" bullers, or UP TO $300 bucks, the LnL PRESS costs $100 bucks, NET

I still have several manual presses, including a CH products C press, an RCBS supreme single, that is my goto beast

I only have to use the single stage to form brass (.510 from 416 rigby) or to do rounds longer than 3.65", or that require 1"x14 dies

jeffe

I have both an old, 3-hole Lee turret press, and a Hornady LNL press. I spent 20 years or so loading on the Lee press, which doesn't auto index.

The Hornady press was my choice over the Dillon not due to auto-indexing, but due to the ease of use and adjustment of the powder measure. I have been quite happy with the Hornady press, and extremely pleased with their support.

I also like the Hornady shell-plate system, which only requires a new shell plate for a new family of cases. Dillon wants to sell you a new plate, button, and bushing set for each caliber....and I load a lot of different ones.

As a side note, since I mostly load rifle cases, much of the time I do not use the press as a full progressive. I will do a resizing run with the brass first, then inspect, trim cases, etc. Then I'll assemble ammo in an otherwise progressive manner--prime, powder drop, bullet seat, and sometimes Lee Factory Crimp....The Hornady system makes it extremely easy to remove dies from any station I don't need without changing their adjustment.

It is easy to attach another powder measure to the hornady press if needed. I sometimes use the Lee DD pro powder measure in place of the Hornady measure as it is more convienient for certain calibers.

It might be worth noting that if you load extremely long cases--like 375 H&H--the auto-index feature may not be your friend. Since the rotation to the next station happens during the stroke instead of by hand at the bottom it can make bullet seating an interesting dance.

FWIW, there seems to be quite a bit of freeplay or slop in the Lee press. I don't know how much it has effected my shooting over the years....but if I get another turret press it will be the Redding T7.

Be prepared for some setup and personal adjustment time to get used to working a progressive.....and stock up on components!

Cheers,

Dan

ah, and "another thing"
A couple, really
The hornady is a 5 hole press, which can use a powdercop and/or a specialized crimper.

you can remove the powder measure and weigh/drop powder kinda like its a single stage.. pop off the powder measure, and weigh each charge -- and drop it in .. no big deal. I'll be doing some 500 AR tonight or tomorrow night (when I get my shellplate) and can use my electronic powder despenser to get the charge correct, without adjusting the powder thrower!

changing your dies is 4x3 seconds .. IF you have all 4 dies in use, and about 30 seconds to change the shell plate.

I LOVE the SDQ and the LnL .. gret presses.

But, only those trying liek mad to tear down the Hornady compare it to the 550 .. it compares to the 650, period, feature for feature.

The LNL is a great bargain in a progressive press, especially w/ the almost free bullets. My friend bought one & I've played w/ it. It does have the complexity of autoindexing. It can be an issue when something goes wrong. Yes, manual indexing means you have to pay attention to not double charge (just use a powder that fills 1/2 the case or more), but autoindexing can also be a problem when the powder drop doesn't work as designed (happened often when my buddy first set his up) & a squib is almost as bad as a double. I've been loading on my 550b, now two of them, for 20yrs & never had a double charge. I pay attention, even looking at every powder drop, you can still do 450-500rds/hr, & you can easily single load small test batches, not easily done on the LNL.
If I were buying a autoindexing today, it would probably be the LNL, Dillon is just getting stupidly priced. My buddy has had several issues w/ parts not working right, but Hornady has been just as responsive as Dillon. Just do NOT buy a Lee progressive. Save your money & buy better quality.

quote:

Originally posted by byf42:
wow! thanks for all the replies. a couple of questions-

1) auto indexing, that is where every time you pull the handle, the shell plate moves to the next station, right? not trying to be stupid, but i have NO experience with progressive presses.

2) i looked on hornady's website, and they have no lock and load AP's available, i would have to hunt down a dealer which here is next to impossible. i do like the hornady press though

3) if the press has auto indexing, cant you turn that off?

4) djpaintless, what brand of press did you "get burned by"

5) does lee offer anything that would serve my requirements, such as their turret press?

thanks!

First of all I would STRONGLY recommend against LEE. Their stuff is often well designed but it's usually cheaply made and wears out causing frustration and further expense buying stuff that works. The worst money you spend is on something that isn't up to the job.

The press I got burned by was an RCBS Ammomaster progressive. I was never able to load a single round of ammo with it! Several calls to RCBS and several sets of replacement parts never made it right. Was it me? Maybe but I have been loading for 35 years and have loaded 10's of thousands of rounds on my Dillon progressive, so I tend to blame the RCBS Progressive press. Now you can't even get parts for it since it's discontinued - a complete waste of money.

With Dillon they don't make anything but progressives and they support them now and will 10 years from now. That's my biggest question with the Hornady press. Everything that I've read from people that have one brag about it being a very good press, not even considering it's low price. But the question that bothers me is that 10 years from now when the left-handed flibbergibbet breaks will Hornady still support that model? Or will they have moved on to 5 other newer models and not have parts for it anymore like RCBS did for my AmmoMaster Progressive? Dillon will still have the parts for my 650.

Does Hornady have a case trimmer attachment that will work with it? The Dillon case trimmer with my 650 feeding cases through it is the fastest case trimmer I've ever used. Does the Hornady have powdercheck dies that will buzz you with just a couple 1/10's of a grain powder mischarge? Can you switch out entire toolheads with properly set up dies all at once?

The Dillon's are more expensive, I think that most Dillon owners will say that they are well worth the extra cost. Most Hornady owners seem to be very happy too.....for now..................................DJ


But whatever you do stay away from cheapo Lee!

I love my dillon 550 press .I have loaded over 60,000 rounds on it.I use the big calibers on it 416 rem mag,338-378 weatherby.I bugged them till they made the magnum powder system for the bigger calibers.I use it for everything else from 32 mag to 223 ,308 and a bunch of others.The service from dillon is second to none.I love mine and I am buying another one .

quote:

With Dillon they don't make anything but progressives and they support them now and will 10 years from now.

Not exactly true. They sell a stripped down version of the RL550B named the AT500. They don't tout it, but it is available. Instead of the 4 holes of the shellplate being the same, all are different case head sizes, covering most of the popular calibers. Also no shellplate thumbwheel, auto primer feed or powder measure. So in effect you use it just like a turret press. With the advantage over the turret press of the interchangeable toolhead.

I bought mine that way, and gradually added the bits and pieces until it finally became the RL550B. It would have been cheaper to buy the 550 and be done with it. But my budget didn't allow it at the time.

$250 here and I believe shipped for free.

quote:

5) does lee offer anything that would serve my requirements, such as their turret press?

I'm going against the popular trend here to recommend a lee classic turret. It's a cast iron upgrade from the older 3 and 4 hole turrets. It costs what one caliber change would cost for a dillon 650! And yes, it can load the longer rifle calibers. And yes the auto indexing can be disabled by simply pulling the indexer shaft out, then turning the turret by hand.

Know that I also own a XL 650, with 7 caliber swaps. So why buy a LCT? Because it's much harder to work up loads on a true progressive like the 650. When doing load work-ups, you generally are weighing each charge, then moving up a half grain or so. Difficult to do on a 650. After doing load work-ups on the LCT, I set the 650 up to do the batch.

The LNL has had some design flaws right from the beginning. One was the flaky ejector wire, which didn't work for some calibers. The fix is a redesigned shell plate with an ejector underneath. Then there is the problem with the powder through expander die. They still haven't figured out a work around for that one. But others have!;
LNL PTX

The lnl bushing has it's problems as well. Some have been made wrong, so they loosen with use. Especially with the powder measure. They are, I my mind, a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Woe be onto anybody that can't screw in a die and screw it out again!

quote:

Originally posted by grizz:
...to recommend a lee classic turret. It's a cast iron upgrade from the older 3 and 4 hole turrets.

Are you sure it's made from cast iron? Lee's website says they're made from railroad rails, which are steel not case iron.

quote:

Posted 20 June 2009 09:00 Hide Post

quote:
Originally posted by grizz:
...to recommend a lee classic turret. It's a cast iron upgrade from the older 3 and 4 hole turrets.



Are you sure it's made from cast iron? Lee's website says they're made from railroad rails, which are steel not case iron.

That's my question as well. They say it's cast iron, but say it's made from recycled RR rails, which of course are steel. Minor point, the classic turret is much stronger than the old alum. framed press. It also has through the ram primer disposal and a neat primer feed for priming on the press.

quote:

You turret guys please answer this question how many of you put in 2 or 3 dies and take a case from start to finish without stopping or taking it out of the press, I had a turret press and saw no benefit in it was no faster then a SS but cost more to let you think it's faster.

Never! But I have plates with all of my dies set up and it saves me from unscrewing and screwing in dies. I like the bigger cast iron ones like the Lyman, in fact I got it free with a pile of plates.
I have the cheap Lee with a bunch of plates too and it is handy when I need to load some .38's or something for someone else cheap.
For personal use and accuracy loading, the turret and single stage is all I need. I might only need 5 rounds for a revolver for deer hunting just to fill the gun. I have no need for 500 rounds an hour. My revolvers shoot just above 1" and some less at 100 yards so one perfect shot on a deer is better for me then 1000 shots to make noise.
I have never been interested in speed, only quality and accuracy.
Changing dies is just a pain though.
Like I said, choice is based on what shooting sport you do, how many rounds you need and how rich you are to feed the machines.
Nothing worse then a man making $500,000 a year telling a new guy what he should buy. Some of us have trouble buying a pound of powder or 100 primers. We need to make every shot count. There is no way I could feed a Dillon without selling the house!

quote:

i have see the lee turret presses, but would like one that i could reload rifle (30-06, 8x57, etc0 on as well as loading pistol rounds on.

Wonder why you didn't like the Classic Turret. It auto-indexes much faster than a conventional turret, will load most rifle cartridges quite well. Fast but not as fast, or as complex, as a true progressive but it costs a LOT less!

Been loading since '65, never been able to understand why it's such a burden or takes so much time for some folks to exchange dies in a press. ??

“Been loading since '65, never been able to understand why it's such a burden or takes so much time for some folks to exchange dies in a press. ??”
Jim,
I have been reloading at least as long as you, lol it doesn’t seem that long.
I have a Dillon 550 I bought right after they came out with the removable tool head. I have and still do use a single stage press for certain operations. The biggest advantage to using a progressive is "time" With a single stage you have to run all your brass through the press several times before you get loaded ammo. I get loads ammo after the 5th stroke of the handle and every stroke after that.
Jeffeosso,
I still get tickled when you say you only use the 650 for 30-06 and smaller. I can load through .500 NE 3” on my 550. Yes I do remove the cases to charge powder (weighed and dispensed with my Pact dispenser and scale) then insert over powder foam wad.
I would consider a 650 but would have to replace a bunch of shell holders ect.
Bill

A rack to hold extra turrets, that snap in and out for complete caliber changes in ten seconds. Dies stay adjusted, ready to use. Lee's disc measure makes it possible to load complete ammo without removing the shell from the shell holder.

lee turrets

perhaps I was a little over zealous -- you CAN laod 3.65 rounds in the LnL, you just have to pay close attention .. in 3.5 gets interesting

I'm hoping someone can explain this to me.

I have always loaded rifle ammo on a single stage press. There are operations that need to be performed on brass during the reloading process, such as brushing out primer pockets before you re-prime; I can't see how a progressive press lets you do this. I guess some guys don't clean out the primer pocket?

I always used a progressive for shot shells. Speed was of the essence when you shoot as much as I do. But the charge weight accuracy isn't as crucial with shotgun shells as it is with an accurate rifle load. Do the powder measures on these progessives for rifles drop precise charges?

I would love to cut reloading time down and the progressives sound great but I don't want to sacrifice precision or the accuracy of my rifles. Do these things suffer with the progressives? It would be great to be able to churn out accurate 22-250's with the speed of reloading shot shells (600 per hour) and get up the next day and destroy a prarie dog town, then get'em all loaded back up that night!

okay ... here's what you can do... you can remove all the die, and run the brass through with 1 die .. then clean your brass as you please, then run them through, priming, expanding, powder, and seating, as you would without that step.

Though if i was loading a 1/3 or 1/4 moa rifle, there's plenty of time to use a single stage. .. but 1/2 moa? it works just fine