Hey all, Its time I get rid of the crappy tin cans that house all the toys. I'm looking for ideas on the "Best" of all vaults! Security,Fire,looks, in about that order, Remember I'm looking for the best, and it needs to be a home to about 14 rifles.

Thanx.

I had to make this decision about two years ago. I evaluated all the big names: Browning, Ft. Knox, Cannon, Legacy, Liberty, Champion and Cobalt. Afer comparing all the features, I ended up with a Legacy. It is an excellent safe and a great value for the money. It is 10 Ga steel and had the highest fire rating.

Something you may want to consider is to get a safe one size bigger than you think you need. The safes do no hold as many guns as they advertise (espicially scoped rifles). Second, you always can more stuff in the safe (like optics, ammo, knives, jewelry, documents, etc.)

Most of the big names are good safes, but IMHO Legacy was the best.

I am with GA Deer hunter. You can put 14 rifles into a 21 gun safe. You can not put 21 rifles in a 14 gun safe. Go big. You will not regret it.

The marginal cost difference between a 14 and a 21 is usually small, even if you only own 7 guns, get the 21 gun safe!

Bigger safes are harder to tip over. They offer more of a visual deterent to crooks. See if you can bolt it to the floor or wall. I have been told if they can tip it over, they have a better chance of breaking in to it.

Not sure if this is true. But I like the sound of a bigger safe.

Granite Security is another good quality safe. They make the Winchester safe and also offer (the same safe) under the Granite Security name.

Granite Sewcurity

Here's 2 different modular safes: http://www.corporatesafe.com/news/gun%20safe.htm and http://www.zanottiarmor.com/features1-3.html here's another that I have http://www.visaliasafes.com

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cmfic1: Its time I get rid of the crappy tin cans that house all the toys.

Get a TL15 or TL30 rated commercial safe. All "gun safes" can be quickly defeated with a saw or torch.

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Originally posted by fla3006:

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cmfic1: Its time I get rid of the crappy tin cans that house all the toys.

Get a TL15 or TL30 rated commercial safe. All "gun safes" can be quickly defeated with a saw or torch.

So which safes would you suggest?

I looked at a good number of safes a few years ago. I was real impressed with the Ft. Knox. They have a stainless liner option that severely hinders anyone who's trying to use a torch.

Anyone who thinks a quality safe can easily be cut into with a saw, torch or plasma cutter is a little pessimistic about the security of a quality safe. Have you ever tried to torch through a piece of plate when there's something backing it? Not easily done.

If it is capable to be bolted to the floor I would reccomend that. If it can't be bolted down, then do as a friend did; he put 200 lbs of bagged birdshot inside on the floor. In my experience most safes are stolen and taken somewhere else to attempt to open, so it needs to be heavy enought to not be portable or needs to be bolted down. My safe weighs 600 lbs, is a cannon, and I am very happy with it.

Good luck and good shooting,
Eterry

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bulldog563: "fla3006: Get a TL15 or TL30 rated commercial safe."....So which safes would you suggest?

Any brand safe with an insurance underwriters label showing these ratings will suffice. Any commercial safe dealer or locksmith can get one with your required dimensions. They can be expensive though and the least expensive way to obtain one is to find one used. They appear in classified ads, store liquidation auctions, also ebay. I purchased a very high security Mosler TL30 from the U.S. Post Office for $200. They are also heavy and can be difficult & expensive to move.

If you decide not to go this route, then any good quality gun safe is much better than none. Walmart & Sam's Club sell good quality "Winchester" gun safes that also have a bit of fire protection for about $700.

Any safe can be cracked open if the thief has enough time and tools at his disposal. There are "tools of the trade" that allow for this to take place...and no I am not one of those people nor do I know any...but I do know tooling well. My safe is a 34 gun Liberty and weighs 900 lbs. empty and is filled to the hilt. Good advice... buy bigger than you need and don't worry about whether or not it can be broken into. If it happens, there was'nt a damn thing you could have done about it anyways.

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Woodrow S: Any safe can be cracked open if the thief has enough time and tools at his disposal.

A TL30 rated safe takes a minimum of 30 minutes to defeat by an experienced safe & vault technician using schematics, drilling and other cutting apparatus (oxygen lance), typically longer. Most commonly sold gun safes with 1/4" doors & bodies can be opened in a few minutes using the same techniques. Either will stop most burglaries but the former will stop all but the most experienced with the benefit of inside information.

I have just been looking around.... All of the TL30 safes I found weren't big enough or made for guns. Does anyone make a gun safe with this rating?

Bulldog, taller versions for long guns can be had too. Log onto www.savta.org to locate a safe & vault dealer in your area, or look on Yahoo, Google or the Yellow Pages. You might have to search a little more for a used TL15 or TL30 but they come up. Here's a nice one on ebay, unfortunately not in N.CA: SAFE

A LE friend forgot his combination so he called a locksmith who had done time for safe cracking,the locksmith wouldn't let my friend watch how he opened his safe but he did it within a couple of minutes.After that demonstration all weapons were removed from the safe and hidden within the home where the alarm system was engaged.A Dr living outside of a desert city had a huge double door safe embedded in concrete inside of his home,they left on a trip for a couple of months and when they returned they discovered a wall into their home was gone as was part of the floor along with the safe which was found buried in the backyard of a gangbangers home empty of the guns,jewelry and other valuable items.If anyone wants what you have they'll get it and there isn't anything you can do to stop them.A safe will stop juveniles but not an experienced thief.

OK, I give up. Any safe can be defeated with enough time, equipment and knowledge, including this one:



If you feel your valuables are just as safe in a closet, then so be it.

The whole idea with the safe is to use time as the actual deterrent. If the amount of time to get into the safe is too great (dependent on the security level of the safe)then it's not an attractive or viable target.

Very good point. The real message that needs to be sent here is keep your mouth shut. If you have $15,000 double rifles or other expensive weapons don't spread it all over the place. Many gun heists are inside jobs and sometimes involves the victims own kids, either by spreading info. on what you have or helping to spend the dough. I have always been very picky about who my kids bring home with them and on several occaisions sat them down and explained why. Yep, your kids friends also have friends and some may not be the nice kind. I am the only one in the house that knows the combo to my safe and even the little woman very seldom gets to see what is there(no risk of her going into the gunshop and coming out with a handful of cash).

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Woodrow S: The real message that needs to be sent here is keep your mouth shut... Many gun heists are inside jobs.

Best advice yet.

If I wanted to buy one of these 1 ton+ safes how are they shipped? would the average floor even hold it?

I feel that it is better to do it yourself when it comes to safes.Size,thickness of steel,welding,ect..Get some shop to build you one to your instructions,

Burglary Ratings:

B Rated Safe Equivalent to a 1/4" wall and a 1/2" door, not Tool Rated

C Rated Safe Equivalent to a 1/2" wall and a 1" door, not Tool Rated

TL-15 Safe 1" wall and 1 1/2" door. Carbon Steel. Tool Rated (hand burglary tools) by Underwriters Laboratory for 15 minutes

TL-30 Safe 1" wall and 1 1/2" door. Carbon Steel. Tool Rated (hand burglary tools) by Underwriters Laboratory for 30 minutes

TRTL-30 Safe 1" wall and 1 1/2" door. Torch and Tool Rated (hand burglary tools) by Underwriters Laboratory for 30 minutes

TL-30-X6 Same as TL-30 but rated on all 6 sides of the safe

Fire Ratings:

UL Class C Tested to maintain an internal temp of less than 350° while exposed to the following: 1 hr at 1700°, plus 1/2 hr at 2000° followed by a 30' drop test and an additional 1/2 hr at 1550°

UL Class B Tested to maintain an internal temp of less than 350° while exposed to the following: 2 hrs at 1850°, plus 1/2 hr at 2000° followed by a 30' drop test and an additional 1 hr at 1700°

UL Class A Tested to maintain an internal temp of less than 350° while exposed to the following: 4 hr at 2000°, plus 1/2 hr at 2150° followed by a 30' drop test and an additional 1 hr at 1700°

Bank Rated Vault Doors:

Class 1 Half hour tool rated
Class 2 One hour tool rated
Class 3 2 Hour tool rated

Don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Think of firearm theft prevention as a layered defense.

1. Quality safe
2. Monitored alarm system
3. Adequate insurance

I sell safes and want you guys to know not to get caught up in the fire rating. Most all name brands are rated for a temp that is much higher than a house fire can/will get. Be sure it has an S&G lock. If it doesn't then don't buy it. S&G are the industry best. The most important question to ask is if you can't get into it for whatever reason will you be able to get somebody out that can. Check the service policy. Walmart, Academy, Bass Pro, Cabelas, ect don't service them. I had a customer who broke the pin that holds the handle on a unnamed brand and it had to be drilled because the safesmith was unable to obtain a schematic of the lock mechanism. You want to find out if this or something like this happens to you will they send somebody out to fix it.

joecool, do it and have a buglerer injured and you are up the creek. I had an old safe that for some reason I lost the combo and had to get alocksmith ot open are re set. While doing this he found a vile of tear gas in the door and told me had someone broken in and tampered with the safe and set the teargas off under Pa law I would be held liable to any damage suffered by the intruder. Go figure.

In my past life I was a safe and vault technician. If price is no object, TL/TR 15 or 30 would be great (X6 would be better)but they're extremely exspensive, extremely heavy, not usually configured for guns, and really not necessary for 99% of us. These are usually used by jewelers and the like. Moreover, 99% of thieves cannot get into the common gun safe. For those that have the ability and tools to get into a TL/TR rated safe, they will get into whatever you have, and they usually won't waste they're time with a residential safe. My personal gun safe is a Hall's with 1/4 inch door and walls and a S&G 6700 series group two lock, which is standard on the majority of safes. I have never thought I needed more protection. I would concern myself more with the fire rating than the security rating.

I remember the days I kept all of my firearms in a beautiful Oak gun cabinet with glass doors. Buy a safe that is big and heavy, a good alarm and a big dog. Bottom line is if they want in, they'll get in. I never met a safe that I couldn't open. It's that some just take a little longer than others. As mentioned above unless you have an X6 safe, only the door is rated. The smart safe crakers go for the top or sides if the door gives them heartburn.

For over 3 decades I wrote probation reports on the criminally oriented individuals in NYS & CA and interviewed crime victims whose losses would have been a lot less had they purchased something bulky and heavy to keep their treasured valuables in whether it was a lockbox,strong box or safe they were victimized by their children,relatives , friends and strangers.Safes will keep most of the stupids and juvenile delinquents out but not a determined experienced safe breaker.

While reviewing a firearms site in an area where I grew up there was an early american home with a specially reenforced room built in w/o any outward signs of its existance(probably used by early settlers to hide from marauding indians or british troops in the 1700's) that contained a huge collection of firearms.

Zanotti Armor. Quality and breaks down for trannsport. I have been told that Zanotti is actually safer than many standard construction safes because its construction gives rises to few external welds. Mine holds 30 rifles. Thought it might be too big when I bought it. I'm now thinking it's too small.

I found most gun safes to small---the larger ones hold a fair amount of guns but lots of times it is nice to lock up other stuff like records, cash, other valuables etc.
I built a vault room in my house. I just ordered a vault door and poored 8-10" concrete walls on all sides and ceiling area. Now I have 9 X 18' ft. room with plenty of room for all guns and other stuff. The cost was not much more that two large pre-made gun safes. The door was about 2K but you can get the same door without fancy paint for about $1600.00 to $1800.00
now I have more room so I can buy more guns!!

American Security Products www.amsecusa.com is the best of all gun safes. They are the only manufacturer of a TL30 gun safe. Two models in their high security line with two hour fire ratings, four models in the B F line (burglary and fire rated) and they have several models in the standard gun safe line which are still better than any other gun safe.I sell safes and I have carried almost all of the other manufatuerers at one time or the other and do all warranty work in my area for them, I have never had a warranty job for Amsec for any of their produts which varies from cash boxes to bank vaults and every thing in between. Several interiors to choose from and can be changed as your collection grows. Hope this helps some?

I'll second (or third) some of the above advice. Your best defense is obscurity. Don't tell anyone and I mean ANYONE about the existence of your safe(s), that you have guns at home, etc. Stress the necessity of this to your kids, whatever age. Be very careful about who comes into your house and what they can see. A safe in a closet is much better than one in the living room, for example. Try to position it where it can be closed off from view of normal home repair technicians, such as plumbing, AC, hot water heater, etc. Repair personnel can be a prime factor in why your home gets robbed. They don't necessarily do it, but they can talk or have connections that do.

Second, as has been said several times above, get the biggest they offer that you can afford and will fit in your living space. If you think a 14 gun size is plenty, get AT LEAST A 21. You absolutely won't regret it a few years down the road.

As far as building a vault goes, I'm working on that. I hope the poster above took into account the additional concentrated weight of the vault room walls or he will almost certainly have foundation problems in the future. It does require extra support unless you are on solid rock.

Finally, keep this in mind, a safe is only a box. To paraphrase the "Cops" TV show song, "whatch gonna do when they gun for you"? In short, if they've got a gun or knife to your head or the head of your wife or kids, then all the tool ratings in the world mean nothing.....which gets us back to.....DON"T ADVERTISE.

+1 for AmSec. a top-quality product for a reasonable price

I have the Lincoln Liberty Safe. Very good, Very Heavy!!! I decided to put it in my basement(Didn't think the floors upstairs would handle the weight). Only word of advice, stay away from the electronic key. Both my safe and my dad's had trouble with the electonic lock.

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Originally posted by gary alford:
American Security Products www.amsecusa.com is the best of all gun safes. They are the only manufacturer of a TL30 gun safe. Two models in their high security line with two hour fire ratings, four models in the B F line (burglary and fire rated) and they have several models in the standard gun safe line which are still better than any other gun safe.I sell safes and I have carried almost all of the other manufatuerers at one time or the other and do all warranty work in my area for them, I have never had a warranty job for Amsec for any of their produts which varies from cash boxes to bank vaults and every thing in between. Several interiors to choose from and can be changed as your collection grows. Hope this helps some?

I like this info, particularly as I bought one a few years back. Thanks. Oh, and no complaints here with mine, other than I maybe should have gotten something larger than the 14 gun safe...

I am surprised no one has mentioned buying two safes, putting one in a hidden room while the other is out in view. The one in view has the less valuable guns.