Here is some progress being made in casting and swaging bullets for my 303 Brit.

The bullet. A 243gr CAST-RN-HP-GC


As it came out of the mould.


Getting swaged and the hollow point 'fitted'.


They can be cast with a hollow point too.


A bullet and captured in my 'firing tube'.
More recovered bullets.
These have made it all the way through rags and wool waste and into the sand pot at the bottom. (Oops, not the middle one - that one stopped in the rags).

The firing tube.


A loaded and lubed bullet that has been chambered and extracted.

303guy, very interesting and sure would be a killer. What alloy do you use?. Gas checks did not come off so you have the shank diameter figured pretty good. Have you chrongraphed any of your missiles yet. Would be interested to see what velocities you were shooting them at. And last question, what is that black goop that you use for a bullet lube. Vegamite or marmite. Please post your results for all to see. Thanks,Frank

These still have to be range tested. Did not get out this week-end, sadly.



That black 'goop' is my waxy-lube. It is a mix of candle wax, bullet lube and 'engine oil treatment' (STP I think? Here we get stuff called 'smoke stopper'). It is melted in an electric pot into which I dip the bullet after loading.

This pic looks real ... ummmm ... 'goopy' because it has been chambered and the lube stuff squased against the rifling leade.


I use the same stuff to 'glue' my Hornet bullets into the case mouth - no neck sizing.



The alloy is simple WW with a bit of whatever range pick-ups are made from. It is quite soft.

At this point, I have tested only a few 'defective' casts in my firing tube using H4227 or Lil'Gun. Pressures have been low. Too much 'Oomph' and the firing tube starts climbing up the barrel! My range test loads are Varget and are supposed to produce around 1900fps. If accuracy is bad then I will drop the powder charge followed by switching to H4227. I am weary of going too low with Varget.

Bullet diameter is 8.05mm at the base, tapering to 7.72mm, 6mm before the bullet nose. The bullet is 32m long. The gas check is placed in the base of the mould and the lead cast in from the nose. The bullet is then pushed out in my press with a little ram pin. I then lube the bullets and swage them in the same mould, pressing the hollow point indent through the casting hole. The bullet is then pressed out of the mould with the same pin. I have a shorter bullet variation, which is simply a different gas check insertion punch which seats the gas check deeper in the mould base.

This particular example has the gas check backwards. The other side of it has been 'tinned' so it will adhere to the alloy.

Very interesting. You've solved the problem of getting your bullets to definitely engage the rifling.Is your mold self made?. Lyman used to make something similar many years ago, especially for shooters who wanted to get heavier than normal
bullets. Single cavity with adjustable plug that was retained by a screw. These were grooved bullets. Keep us posed as this is very interesting. Frank

Will do. Thanks for your interest!

Yes, the mould (mold?) is self made. Which is the correct spelling?

The idea was to swage the bullet after casting and to have it bigger than bore diam. I figured too, that since I was going to be limited in velocity due to the 1-in-10 twist, I might as well make use of the cartridge's power by going as heavy as possible. Also, I reasoned that a very heavy bullet would lend itself to lower velocity without loading too low a slow burning powder charge. I will find out soon enough whether or not I am misguided! (I must admit I find the idea of a 243gr 303 bullet at 1900fps quite appealing! There ain't nuttin’ gonna get away from a hit by one of those. We'll see. Actually, the word ‘torpedo’ comes to mind. )

quote:

I use the same stuff to 'glue' my Hornet bullets into the case mouth - no neck sizing.

Hi,
Is this some kind of paper patched bullet?

Thanks
Martin

quote:

Originally posted by Martin Godio:
Is this some kind of paper patched bullet?

Yes it is. I call it a paper cup seat. That is my loading method for my hornet. I have tried it with cast bullets. It's OK. The paper is paper hand towel. The idea is to hold the bullet straight in the un-sized case. The molten waxy-lube gets soaked into the paper which holds it real firm once frozen. This has the added benefit of allowing me to headspace on the case mouth. With this arrangement, I do not need to clean nor preserve the bore. I do patch out any debris that might absorb moisture. I cannot say that there is any difference in accuracy but I can say that the load I have developed is rather powerful and pretty accurate. At 285m the bullet drop is some 350mm below point of aim - the rifle is zeroed for 160m. This gives me a useful range of 200m. That's a 55gr bullet in the pic. It's not lightning fast but approaching 2700fps. Not bad for a hornet!

This is the device for cutting the paper strips.

303guy, 243 grain 303 bullet. Whatcha going hunting for up there?. I think you may want to forget about using 4227 as a powder for the 303 you are working on. Way too fast and pressures can spike quickly. If I were you I'd go to a slower powder. Some cast bullet shooters go with the extremely slow powders. Like the ones used for 50 browning machine gun and there is one or two that is used for the 20mm gatling. Hodgdon sells a few extremely slow burning powders that should fit your application. Not to throw stones in your path or anything like that. But the extremely slow powders just might be the way to go. You may have to play with magnum primers to get consistent ignition and maybe get some unburned powder granules. Hope this helps. Frank

Thanks, Singleshotlover.
I was wondering about the very slow powders but I had no knowledge on their use. The H4227/AR2205 was just to test the bullet fit in the bore. The charge I am using is very low - low even for a hornet. The primer is only just beginning to show some indication that there was even powder in the case. The loads I have made up for range testing is a light load of Varget/AR2208. Still too fast for my liking. I am not sure what the slow powders available to me are but they are available - I might even be able to get BMG50. Can you advise on powder charges to get close to 1900fps?

I have just been experimenting with my No.4 303 Brit. I gave it two fire-lapping shots followed by a hollow point bullet into a wet-pack. This was with H4227/AR2205 so it was likely sub-sonic. It did expand - sort of. Enough to be effective on game anyway. I do not actually intend firing it at game at those low velocities.



Since fire-lapping, the flame cutting I was getting previously has stopped. I suspect it was being caused by rust in the grooves cutting the gas tight seal, letting flame through.

This one was fired with a hotter load.

One can see that the bullet shank has fewer striations since the fire-lapping.

When I started shooting cast from a 6.5 Grendel in my AR15 I used 4227. I sort of run into the same problem with it as you. I then went to 4198 and got the velocity I wanted along with the accuracy. Before any ask about trying a slower power I did and none of them gave as good results as the 4198. So you might give that a try.

To say 2700 fps for a 55 gr bullet out of a 22 Hornet isn't shabby is an understatement. That's damn good!!!!

303guy, funny thing. Never noticed any lube except for what you had on the nose of your swaged bullet. At the velocity of your test firing loads you didn't mention anything about leading. Slow burning powders, haven't any suggestions for loads. I think ADI makes some for hogdon. Starmetal might be better informed than me
regarding the use of 4198. Was a good powder in the 222 rem. But for me that was years ago and jacketed bullets not cast. Keep the posts coming as I find this very interesting. Frank

quote:

To say 2700 fps for a 55 gr bullet out of a 22 Hornet isn't shabby is an understatement. That's damn good!!!!

Do remember that I have not chrono'd these loads. The figure is an estimation based on comparisons and trajectory and is rounded up – I actually came up with 2680 to 2690fps. ( I don't mind if the velocity is less than my estimation - the terminal effects won't be any less! Nor will the trajectory be any worse. )

Well, today I got to shoot these cast bullets!
I was rather dumbfounded when the first shot (quite close to get the bullet onto the target) took out my point of aim! There was this gaping hole where my 'spot' once was! (At this point I considered quitting while I was still ahead). Well, the next shot went right into the bull. The third disappeared somewhere else!? I moved back some and repeated the disappearing point of aim trick! This was getting to be fun! Now, I had earlier on passed up a shot at a hare sitting in front of the bank like an inviting target, just because the rifle was not sighted in for those new loads. Not to mention that a suppressor/muzzle break had just been added. And here the rifle is shooting to the same point of aim as my 40gr Varget/AR2208 - 180gr RN jacketed loads!

Then, just for fun, I fired two light cast bullet loads using 90gr pistol bullets over my normal hornet load of 13.7gr Lil’Gun (or was it the 9.5gr AR2205/H4227?) These also shot to the same point of aim!

The load I settled on for this first test was 35.5gr Varget/AR2208 behind a 220gr cast RN HP bullet. (Not the 243gr ones shown earlier). Pressure signs on the primer are what I would call nice - not too hot and not too low. This is the starting load for a 215gr jacketed bullet. Recoil and muzzle blast was pretty mild with the device I added to the muzzle. I see no sign of leading in the bore and the last shot I fired was at about 120m and that one hit my point of aim again!

quote:

303guy, 243 grain 303 bullet. Whatcha going hunting for up there?.

Turkey! I shot one with it today! Nothing wrong with that cast bullet on turkey. (Bigger hole going in?) It's going to work on deer I think.

So as you folks can imagine, I am quite exited. But I still don't have proper range test results to share. Oh yes, these were fired in my two-groove No.4. The same one that flame cut the bullet shown earlier.

quote:

Never noticed any lube except for what you had on the nose of your swaged bullet. At the velocity of your test firing loads you didn't mention anything about leading.

There is no lube other than what you see. (Which is a lot, actually). No signs of leading at the initial test velocity. No sign of leading at the full house load! I would call this last load pretty hot for soft cast bullets. (At least I think it's hot).


The "device". The bottom one is on my 303-25. I went bigger to see if it would be more effective and ended real ugly but it works pretty damn well!

I took the 220gr cast bullet loads out hunting yesterday. The previous day I fired ten rounds through the barrel and did not clean the bore because I could not see any leading. Well, maybe I should have just cleaned it anyway! A further ten rounds later and the bore is not clean. Trouble is, accuracy was poor on the last few shots I fired (at targets). I nicked a hare at close range and missed a turkey at a fair distance! Not good enough. So It's back to the drawing board. The problem I think I am having is too high a pressure. These rounds are no slouches and may be exceeding the speed limit. I do not want to down load with Varget/AR2208 as I would be entering the 'below minimum' recommended starting load. Now I want to buy some slower powder but don't know how slow to go. H4350 gives about max velocity in the 303 Brit with heavier bullets and compressed loads and is therefore usable with jacketed bullets but I actually want a powder that will give the desired velocity (about 1900fps with 220gr to 243gr bullets), with a near full case. Do I need to go slower than H4350? Do I need magnum primers for H4350? Should I be going to a faster powder that is not sensitive to a half empty case (H4198 for example, as suggested by Singleshotlover)?
Then there is the question of how low could I reduce the Varget/AR2208 charge? (AR2208 might be the 'same' as Varget but lot to lot consistency my differ somewhat - meaning that some lots may be closer to Varget than others, Varget being the more consistent one).

Oh, the muzzle blast suppressor/compensator is great to use (as ugly as it is) but is still pretty loud and forehead smacks can still occur but at least without drawing blood. The biggest difference in noise level is at close range when the bullet hasn't had the time to generate as much noise. Otherwise, it is as effective as a full-blown, over-barrel, fully suppressed rifle.

quote:

A further ten rounds later and the bore is not clean. Trouble is, accuracy was poor on the last few shots I fired (at targets).

303 and where was the leading, breech or closer toward the muzzle?

303guy I believe it was I who suggested the H4198.

On your accuracy change the following day. It's pretty well known that first time out shooting with a clean barrel the lube you are using stays at a certain consistency in your bore. Often depending on the lube, if you don't clean the bore and let the rifle set a day or so the lube will harden with certain types. This can and will change accuracy. Also finding a good lube in the summer and then using it in the winter will change your accuracy often. I'm interested in hearing where you leading is in the barrel.

While I shoot .303 cast bullets, I am strictly conventional with the LEE 185gr, Lyman 31141 and the 314299. Mix is 50/50 Linotype and wheelweights. All shoot mostly into the 2" to 3" 10 shot group at 100 yards from a rest and micrometer sights from 3 or 4 ex-NRA target rifles.

Loading is conventional, I rub by hand, a lube mix of 50/50 Alox, beeswax and some moly disulphide into the lube grooves, put on a gas check and run through a LEE sizer opened to .315" and then roll the completed projectile in LEE Liquid Alox and leave to dry.

While I have experimented with AR2208 loads, I have got my best results with a load of 18.6gr of 4198 with a wool wad - sold by the Cast Bullet Kid on the NZ Trademe site - not pushed down onto the powder. I would only use pure medical cotton wool or wool, no Dacron. Other fillers ?, I did experiment for some time over a lot of 1000 rounds with a cereal filler of coarse semolina mixed with a healthy addition of Graphite powder, certainly shrank the groups, but found the wool wad more convienient.

Works quite well. My best result is with the .315" 314299 from an older 1907 Mk1* target bedded SMLE with a dark, worn, slightly pitted Lithgow Heavy barrel - consistently - if I do my part - puts 10 out of 10 under 1" at 100yds - much much better than a pristine Heavy barrel on a similar rifle that should do better. The second best results come from a 2 groove 1942 Long Branch.

Starmetal, you did indeed - I picked up on Singleshotlover's reference to you.

quote:

Starmetal might be better informed than me regarding the use of 4198

The interesting thing is that I would have considered H4198 a good choice because, as a faster powder, it should ignite easier and the larger free volume in the case would keep pressure down. I was thinking along the lines of keeping velocity down and pressure up with a heavy bullet and 'normal' powder.

quote:

... where was the leading, breech or closer toward the muzzle?

Toward the muzzle. I could make it out from the muzzle end and it appeared to be in the last half of the barrel. When I pulled the bronze brush through, the resistance seemed to become less toward the breach. The appearance was of thin streaks between the grooves that were hardly visible and the bore was dull and grey in the last half.

Pressure from the AR2208/Varget was moderate according to the primer flattening - pretty much mid-range for a 303 Brit, right where one would want to be with a jacketed bullet. I should add that the powder seemed to burn pretty clean and pressure seemed consistent. (220gr bullets).

Very interesting information on lube! Thanks starmetal and KimW9.

quote:

... - consistently - if I do my part - puts 10 out of 10 under 1" at 100yds - ... The second best results come from a 2 groove 1942 Long Branch.

That's amazing - and encouraging!
My rifle is a Long Branch but the barrel is UK made with narrow grooves. The muzzle end might be slightly loose due to corrosion - the idea is to trim it back a bit once it is properly clean (if necessary). This one is slightly pitted but not worn and is quite bright now. I have two .311 sizers and will end up opening up one of them, I'm sure - thanks for the idea. What velocity do you get with your 4198 load? Is it a (relatively) hot load? Would I have to reduce it for 220gr bullets or is there room for higher pressure without damaging the bullet?

Another question - gas checks. I have to open up my 30cal gas checks to make them seal the bore. I can only see this as being a source of inconsistency in the shape of the base of the bullet. Can one get bigger gas checks? Could I resize 8mm gas checks (if I could get any - I did see 338 gas checks on the shelf today)?

Thanks all, for the help and suggestions.

303 from where your leading is located, muzzle end I would say you are running out of lube as opposed to alloy failure. I believe Glenn sent you a sample of C Red lube, good stuff and worth a try. I had a leading problem with 45cal PB bullet when temp got above 80F(below that temp I had no leading), this lube stopped muzzle leading for me up to 100F when Lyman super moly didn't and thats saying alot. I would try the carnaba red it is excellent lube.
As far as loading slower powders I don't see why h4831(2213adi???) would guess 40-45 grs would give you your target velocity of 1900fps- with low pressure 35Kpsi(I'm guessing/estimating?) which should be about max in a 30 cal dia with ACWW before alloy failure. If you need to harden the alloy for the higher pressure just h2o drop from the mold and ww will age to about 20 BHN. I would try them the way they are first(you will achieve optimum accuracy just before alloy failure)and if you get breech leading then you know your alloy failed. .02 Scot

The very tight grouping from the worn and pitted heavy barrel came and still is a great surprise to me. Everything - bore diameter, headspace, throat etc - must just come together and it is way better than any other .303 that I have but only with the 314299 projectile. I have no idea of the BHN of my alloy but it does shoot. Mind you, the 1907 SMLE was a NRA target rifle, properly bedded and using a Central micrometer sight and from a rest. The next best grouping by any of my .303 with cast bullets, from good barrels averages 2" to 3", which I consider reasonable.

As to sizing, I got the .314" Lee sizer and polished it out to .315, no problems with the gas checks. Lube with the 314299 is adequate, the rubbed in lube into the grooves and the extra coating of the LEE Liquid Alox leaves a distinct lube ring on the muzzle.

The AR2207 - 4198 equivalent - load is not hot but it was the first load that I put in and the results were so good that I never changed it or wanted to experiment. At the beginning, I experimented with IMR 7625 powder, up to 11gr - very consistent velocities with the LEE 185gr projectile - 1300fps and put 18 rounds in 2.25" x 4.5" at 100yds but got cold feet - a bit too fast burning for me. 32 gr of AR2208 with the 185gr gave me 1700 fps and 15 rounds in 3" x 4" at 100 yds. 17.8gr of AR2205 (4227 equivalent)gave 1550 fps with the 185gr LEE.

I had a Lithglow and used the Lyman 314299 cast from wheelweights and water dropped. I was able to shoot 1 inch groups at 70 yards with it. Never tried it any further then that. Then like a fool I sold it.

303Guy, going to send you a PM about lube.

Joe

303guy,well I had to ask what you were going to use your 243 grain bullet on. Turkeys??. Guess they grow them big and tough where you live. Yep starmetal know a heap more about cast bullets than I probably ever will. Still find it interesting. Would have thought such a long heavy bullet would not be stabilized in a 1x10 twist such as in your enfield. Wrong again. Learn something new every day. Here's wishing all of you a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.Frank

quote:

The very tight grouping from the worn and pitted heavy barrel came and still is a great surprise to me. Everything - bore diameter, headspace, throat etc - must just come together …

It makes me think the throat is the key.

quote:

... well I had to ask what you were going to use your 243 grain bullet on. Turkeys??. Guess they grow them big and tough where you live.

They are tough! I couldn't believe the beating they could take. But the idea of the very heavy bullet is, firstly, to fill the throat and to give a reasonable useful range to the bullet as well as effectiveness on bigger game. Having seen what that bullet does to a turkey, I am confident it will take anything! (Funny thing about turkeys is that they don't damage as much as one would expect). As to the long and heavy bullet, well, I got the length from some Norma 215gr bullets I have. I have not tested the 243gr bullets yet - they might not stabilize.

quote:

The AR2207 - 4198 equivalent - load is not hot ...

quote:

... from where your leading is located, muzzle end I would say you are running out of lube as opposed to alloy failure. ... h4831(2213adi???) would guess 40-45 grs would give you your target velocity of 1900fps- with low pressure 35Kpsi(I'm guessing/estimating?)...

That makes sense. The lube was getting knocked off due to not having the rounds in a decent carry box. Also, I was doing a bit of rapid fire which warmed the barrel some, so ...

The interest in the slower powder also has something to do with filling the case more (compressed) in the 303-25. Maybe even squeezing a bit more velocity out of it.


Merry Christmas to you all!

While cleaning the bore of my 303 Brit, I had a look at the barrel channel clearance. Hah! It is almost touching in places! A slight change in holding pressure and it does touch!

So that introduces another variable which could explain the flyers (not ruling out bad bullets - at least one was bad). I'll fix that today.

Today I tested my cast bullets in my NoI MkI LE. The results are somewhat encouraging! After afew shots, the accuracy went south. Well, one shot did, anyway.



This is not a fantastic group - it was at 50yds! Pretty much the same as the first three shot group. (After scope adjustments).

Is it possible or likely that this kind of 'group' could trebble at double the range?



This is the muzzle star. Does that look like enough lube? After just a few shots, there appears to be leading in the bore towards the muzzle.

It seems to me that alloy failure is not the issue - that would have showed up right from shot one.

I had another look down the rifle bore but this time I had found my missing bronze brush! That bore is clean and shiny all the way to the muzzle. Zero leading! This sounds good, right?

Next, I shall be loading up a few 243gr cast bullets for testing. Not sure what powder charge I will use - maybe some at the same charge and some at a reduced charge.

These are before lubing.
After lubing.

303; looking at the picture of the muzzle that looks like grey wash and not a lube star. Could be just the lighting on picture though. I would scrub the bore with solvent soaked brush, then a tight patch, open poatch up and check for sparklies under a good light. .02 Scot

It's hard to tell what it consists of in your picture, but a lube star will be greasy when you rub your finger across it and usually greasy black on your finger. That is if it's of a type of lube that is soft enough in the ambient temperature you're wiping it off the muzzle and the muzzle is not hot.

I think you're doing a dang fine job shooting an alloy bullet that has no lube grooves, keep up the work and do try that "secret" lube I told you about and report back.

Joe it looks like vaporized lead and then the accuracy went south comment kinda confirms. I agree hes doing good with a smooth sided outside lubed bullet, bet a little knerling on the bearing surface to carry lube would do the trick. I'd like to know what the lube Hornady puts on their swaged wc is, works fine.

Thanks for the input. The 'star' looks just like the picture shows. Except that I could turn it around in the sun for a better perspective. It did look a little 'wet' but unfortunately, I have now lubed the barrel with preservative cleaner which has now covered the 'star'. I did think at first that leading was the issue but a single push through of a dry clean bronze bore brush left the bore shiny clean. Maybe there is lead and lube in the deposit. I must say this was a real sweet load to shoot and I would love to keep it at that level. Thanks for the knurling suggestion! I should also get some Carnuba for testing. How many shots should I be able to shoot before leading becomes an issue. I am keen on hunting with this rifle and these bullets. Oh, only one shot was out of place, so I may have overstated the accuracy going south. Still, I am encouraged by the initial results. The trick now is to repeat them with a higher number of shots!

Something funny going on with the server!

OK, the lube I am using is a mix of candle wax, 'bullet lube' and some engine oil additive of the STP type. It is firm at ambient temp. I 'created' it to act as a lube/glue to hold my hornet bullets in place in an un-sized neck (it works great!) the point is it might not naturally leave a 'greasy' star. I don't know. If I did not get any leading in the bore and the stare 'seemed' to contain lube, would this indicate a possibility of adequate lube? Worth further testing? (I did try to post a reply with thanks for the knurling suggestion! I might just try that next).

Edited: Yup. Funny things happening with the server!

Ah.. yes! That 'secret lube'. I haven't forgotten.

Another thing - I have recovered a few gas checks and these show a greyish 'smear' in the rifling impressions. That was with low velocity loads. Does that mean anything?

The middle bullet was fired through the MkI - the rifle that produced the 'group'.

I have looked for signs of the lube which would be covering the nose and forward part of the shank, mostly, having caused any impressions in the bullet but find none. Whenever I recover a bullet I look for it.

303; I would shoot at least a couple ten shot or 4-5 five shot groups, see how accuracy holds up. I guess for hunting you need to know that the first shot will go mwhere it's supposed to. You also stated that you considered rolling a couple lube grooves in the bullet, if you are indead run out of lube that sounds like a good start on a fix. Maybe Joe's secret lube will work too. Good luck Scot

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:

Another thing - I have recovered a few gas checks and these show a greyish 'smear' in the rifling impressions. That was with low velocity loads. Does that mean anything?

It probably means that leading is also getting smeared onto the rifling. If this is happening with the low end loads you are using it will only worsen with any top end loads. I agree with you that a couple rolled on lube grooves may be benificial. I also concur with whoever said to use slower burning powders. I would think that with that heavy a bullet 4350, H4831SC, RL19 or RL22 might be good powders to try.

Larry Gibson

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:
Something funny going on with the server!

OK, the lube I am using is a mix of candle wax, 'bullet lube' and some engine oil additive of the STP type. It is firm at ambient temp. I 'created' it to act as a lube/glue to hold my hornet bullets in place in an un-sized neck (it works great!) the point is it might not naturally leave a 'greasy' star. I don't know. If I did not get any leading in the bore and the stare 'seemed' to contain lube, would this indicate a possibility of adequate lube? Worth further testing? (I did try to post a reply with thanks for the knurling suggestion! I might just try that next).

Edited: Yup. Funny things happening with the server!

Ah.. yes! That 'secret lube'. I haven't forgotten.

Another thing - I have recovered a few gas checks and these show a greyish 'smear' in the rifling impressions. That was with low velocity loads. Does that mean anything?

Watch on the knurling. Knurling increases some dimension, usually the diameter. For example in an engine rebuild where one didn't have enough funds to purchase new oversized pistons he would resort to knurling which increased their diameter. It worked, but only a short term fix. I don't know how hard it is for you to chamber your bullet into the rifling now, but knurling MAY make it harder to do.

H4350/AR2209 seems to be a good choice for my two other loads - 303-25 and 303 jacketed, so I should probably go with that one.

A question 'though - light loads that are not visibly leading the bore but are leaving a lead smeer on the gas-checks, do not have the pressure to obturate the bullet, while the full load (35.5gr Varget/AR2208 under 220gr cast), will undoubtedly result in a substantial lateral pressure between bullet and bore. How would that influence leading? (I am still not 'seeing' leading after seven shots - haven't scrubbed the bore yet, just oiled it).

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:
H4350/AR2209 seems to be a good choice for my two other loads - 303-25 and 303 jacketed, so I should probably go with that one.

A question 'though - light loads that are not visibly leading the bore but are leaving a lead smeer on the gas-checks, do not have the pressure to obturate the bullet, while the full load (35.5gr Varget/AR2208 under 220gr cast), will undoubtedly result in a substantial lateral pressure between bullet and bore. How would that influence leading? (I am still not 'seeing' leading after seven shots - haven't scrubbed the bore yet, just oiled it).

You might throw AR3100 in your mix too as it's around IMR4831 burn rate.

For the heck of it try a Dacron filler in your present load and see if things change. In your low pressure load you don't have to change anything if you do, but top loads should be worked up as Dacron increased the pressure. I had a load once in a rifle that shot good but left a grey wash in the bore. Although cleaning the bore didn't show any lead or slivers on the patch, I didn't like it. So I added a Dacron filler. Boy it changed the bore from a grey wash to dark carbon color with wet lube.

Agree with Starmetal, some good suggestions in his last post. As to how the full load of Varget may effect leading? Additional pressure from obturation/inertia on the lead against the bore may be too much for the lube. Right now the bullet could just be riding a layer of lube going down the bore. More pressure may force the lube out leaving lead on steel. Only one way to know in this case....try it.

Larry Gibson

I've been wanting to try some Varget. Heard somd good things about it. If you do let us know how it worked for you.

Thanks for all the support guys! The powder I am using in the test loads is the Varget/AR2208 - 35.5grs of it. The light loads were only used in the firing tube to check for bullet fit, flame cutting and just for fun etc. So the question was whether the higher pressure could be changing things like causing the bullet to ride on a layer of lube like one finds in a journal bearing. There is nowhere for the lube to be squeezed to. At least, that is what I am wondering about? Thing is, with lower pressure and no obtuaration, can leaking gasses blow the lube away? Or allow it to be wiped away (smeared out earlier in the bore or something?)

AR3100 is new to me! Will have to check it out.

Thanks for the Dacron tip. Does it just get placed loosely over the powder? (There is not that much free space in the case).

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:
Thanks for all the support guys! The powder I am using in the test loads is the Varget/AR2208 - 35.5grs of it. The light loads were only used in the firing tube to check for bullet fit, flame cutting and just for fun etc. So the question was whether the higher pressure could be changing things like causing the bullet to ride on a layer of lube like one finds in a journal bearing. There is nowhere for the lube to be squeezed to. At least, that is what I am wondering about? Thing is, with lower pressure and no obtuaration, can leaking gasses blow the lube away? Or allow it to be wiped away (smeared out earlier in the bore or something?)

AR3100 is new to me! Will have to check it out.

Thanks for the Dacron tip. Does it just get placed loosely over the powder? (There is not that much free space in the case).

Yes on your leaking gas question.