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Have a friend wanting to shoot some pure lead bullets out of a muzzleloader, so I thought I would try to cast some for him. So how do you get lead to flow like it should? I have cast hundreds of thousands of alloyed bullets, but trying to get pure lead to flow and properly fill a mould is a different animal for me. I have NO experience in this area, and am looking for help. Thanks, guys. | ||
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Try casting at a higher temperature than you use with your alloy. ______________________________ DT | |||
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Add a small amount of 50/50 bar solder (8oz-10#lead). It won't significantly harden the lead but will help the mold fill out. LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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Fred, I had considered that, just hadn't gotten to that point yet, as I wanted the bullets to be as soft as possible. Knew that the tin helps the metal flow, and was under the impression that hardness was primarily from antimony, but just wasn't sure. Thanks, both of you. And keep it coming, guys. I will never get too old to learn! | |||
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You're correct, significant hardening comes from antimony. If you are worried, use 1/4# of 50/50, you can always add more. LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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You shouldn't need to be adding any tin. Simply increasing the temperature of your casting pot should be enough to get the mould to fill out properly. Making sure that the mould is completely degreased is also advisable, but with your casting experience, that's probably preaching to the choir, as is smokeing the mould with the flame of a butane lighter before you start casting. A cold mold will also cause wrinkling and poor fill out, even if the lead in your pot is hot enough, a problem more common with larger projectiles in single cavity moulds - dip one corner of it into the lead until it no longer hardens on the surface. While you will no doubt hear a lot of people tell you that they have used tin in their m/l projectiles with no problems, not a one will give you any data on pressure changes that come with using harder projectiles, and those changes begin to take on much more significance with the heavier charges under hunting loads and very heavy boolits. Are they dangerous? I'm not sure. Is it worth the risk? Not for me, especially when it's easy enough to avoid the the potential problem in the first place. Then we come to ease of loading. With rb's, or with cast boolits in sabots it may make little or no difference, but with conicals, MaxiBalls, MaxiHunters, REALs, etc., it can make a lot of difference, especially when you are trying to load a second or third time with a fouled barrel. It's not just for reasons of safety/liability that all manufacturers of barrels and m/l guns recommend only pure lead projectiles, either. Upon firing, the softer lead obturates better into the grooves of the rifling, making a quicker and better gas seal, minimizing gas cutting that disturbs the base of the projectile and causes it to destabilize when it exits the barrel due to uneven gas escape in the damaged areas. At the least, this can cause wobble, and often can result in the boolit tumbling. This situation is hardly conducive to good accuracy. Just my opinion, YMMV. ..And why the sea is boiling hot And whether pigs have wings. -Lewis Carroll | |||
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Pure lead melts at a higher temperature than the lead alloys, so will require more temp to get a good cast. I cast strictly with ww's that have a reputation for poor mold fillout. I simply cast hot, and get great bullets. Same deel with pure lead, crank up the heat and pre-heat your mold. __________________________________________________ The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time. | |||
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I have cast hundreds of thousands of round balls, maxi balls, boolits and shotgun slugs from pure lead without a problem. The guys are right, raise the temperature! | |||
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What the last three fellows said. I cast pure lead balls just raise the temp. Fisrt few will be culled till the mold gets hot. As far as alloy slugs I cast them hot also as frosting never seemed to bother my accruacy. Ecclesiastes 10:2 (NIV) “The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.” When the SHTF he with the most lead will retain the most gold! | |||
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800*F  If yuro'e corseseyd and dsyelixc can you siltl raed oaky? | |||
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For pure lead, the lead needs to be as hot as your furnace can get it, as DobleTroble says.... "Bitte, trinks du nicht das Wasser. Dahin haben die Kuhen gesheissen." | |||
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Mountain Mold ordered by an online friend. Had it delivered to me for first trials. Using near-pure lead, cast 166 bullets in just under 2 hours. Pot was max'd.   WHUT? | |||
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The only thing you need to be aware of is the vaporization point of lead, just above 800*F. Below that, the only inhalation hazard of lead is the yellow lead oxide powder residue left in the bottom of the casting pot. Above that, it begins to vaporize into the air and depending on how much higher you go, greater amounts will be going into the air you are breathing. Most of us know to use adequate ventilation for smelting and fluxing, (most do it outside) but many do their casting indoors and need to be aware that the higher tempertures used for pure lead can create a health hazard, especially to children. Lead vapor is neurotoxic and can inhibit proper nerve formation and growth. If you want to crank the pot up all the way, it only makes sense to use a lead thermometer. Normally, casting with various alloys is a much lower temperture operation and you can do it for years without elevating your blood lead level any measurable amount, as long as you remember to wash your hands, don't eat or smoke while working, and clean the empty pot outside. Lead oxide, the yellow residue, is much more toxic than metallic lead and can be absorbed through your skin as well as inhaled or ingested, so be aware. ..And why the sea is boiling hot And whether pigs have wings. -Lewis Carroll | |||
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El Deguello. I would like to help you getting your german verse right. Bitte trink nicht das Wasser, denn dort haben die Kuehe reingeschissen. Marlin | |||
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In addition to all the good advice already posted...I would add that once you get everything up to temp and are starting to produce "keepers"...Cast as quickly as you can..SAFELY. Don't screw around chatting, and especially...don't make additions to your pot. This may require a little additional preparation so that you don't have to stop before you're pot is emptied, but I've found my best results with a (relatively) high-speed pace. Precise results require consistent procedures. | |||
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I don't think there is much of a problem, if any, with increased pressures should a projectile be a bit harder than one from pure lead. In his article on PAST AFRICAN CARTRIDGES (RIFLE MAGAZINE september-october 1997 #173) he writes, "Selous' hunting carreer spanned the veolution from black powdermuzzleloaders to modern jacketred bullets Among his favorites was a .450 caliber Farquharsen single-shot rifle by Gibbs of bristol.It was considered a small bore in those days, so he hesitated to try it on elephants. When he finally did so, he killes six of them in one day, using hardened paper patched lead bullets of 540 grains driven by 75 grains of black powder. I also have somewhere around the house an article where one of those old time African hunters used 4 bore double barreled smoothbores with the round balls made of lead and hardened with mercury. I ahven't quite figured out how they did that one and I'm sure as hell not gonna try it myself. I have shot .50 and .54 caliber round balls from my muzzeloaders made from straight wheel weights up to and including the suggested max loads for the forearms. The only change I had to make was use a slightly thinner patch for ease of loading. That metal would probably also work with conicals of the Minie ball class. I have some Hornady conicals for my .54 that are, of course, pure lead and you cannot seat the damn things without deforming the hell out of them as they are way too tight of a fit. As I do not shoot in-lines, much preferring the traditional style of muzzle loader, I normally shoot round balls made from pure lead with just enough tin added for easy casting. It doesn't seem to hurt a thing as far as I can see and some of my guns have been used now for over 30 years. The few maxi balls I've cast from that alloy have notbeen any problem regarding pushing them down the barrel and they shoot just fine. Paul B. | |||
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versifier you get around but a good man is always needed isee you have spelled boolit right yes this the same testhop | |||
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Mercury doesn't actually vaporize out of lead like you'd think it would. and leaving a layer of molten boric acid "glass" over the lead in your pot will reduce the hazard from lead or mercury vapor. What is actually worse is the other lead hardener that was popular way back when... Arsenic. Now if the mercury was contaminated with thallium (mercury from cryogenic thermometers!), that'd be something to REALLY worry about.... (Like the difference between Second hand tobacco smoke and Nerve Gas) AD If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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Everybody is right. Staight lead can cast RBs very well. When you are casting something with lots of sharp edges, it can use a little help. Even 1% tin will do it without significant hardening. Go ahead and try straight lead. If you are getting round edges that should be square after a dozen casts, put a few feet of solder in the pot. It is a good citizen's duty to love the country and hate the gubmint. | |||
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Antimony free lead tin alloys remain very soft even with fairly large ammounts of tin Ever test the hardness of 50/50 solder? The problem is that with increasing ammounts of tin the alloys are more prone to "sticking" to the inside of the barrel and dramatically lowers the melting point. 5-6% tin VASTLY increases the ability of the alloy to fill out the mould and will thereby decrease the number of culls. I'm not advocating this for Muzzle loaders, but for Blackpowder cartridge firearms it can make a big difference if you want the bullets as soft as possible for expansion and minimize the number of rejects. AD If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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