The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Cast Bullets Veral as 'Censor'Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Veral as 'Censor' | Login/Join |
| one of us |
Yeup I got DE-leted on "viral's" for-me-um. Exchg'd e's with GB and he readily admits that 'ask Veral' thang is just a marketing section for Smith. I found GB a decent guy.. no complaint I knew it'd boil down to such. No problem.... I figured such. Smith's attitude in his online brouchure sez it all. Anyone's who read me yrs back knows well I stuck up for LBT when he was jailed for his stupidity. With a wife left to eat what?? Thing is... I've not changed my outlook per Smith. The man's done much for cast shooten, employed many original ideas and brought a common sense understanding to 'how to' cast shooten. But no one walks on water in my world. Some of what Smith contends is clearly open to debate at a minimum. But the new LBT show appears to be 'snow the newbie' aka haul the bucks in. Clearly he needs [$] I'm sure, but some balance to his claims I feel only fair. He's not the only game around now. LBT isn't the best mold made clearly and now with the price increase isn't the best value either. Hey Veral I do wish you much success. I hope you sell tons of them! cc: Veral Smith | ||
|
one of us |
Some folks will do anything for money. I personally have to fight those feelings, as well as a bucket full of others, to keep my sanity. ... felix | |||
|
| one of us |
Aladin, just for personal curiousity -- was it Veral who pruned your posts or was it Greybeard? Oldfeller | |||
|
| one of us |
Veral pruned them I was told. Note the cc: Smith got a e mail copy of my post. | |||
|
| one of us |
Very interesting..I have long had some doubts about some of the stuff Mr. Smith wrote. I also noted that he something for sale to fix all the problems. Read his book, buy his stuff and you were home safe. That always send a red flag up in my mind. However, I never said anything because he seems to be hallowed by so many. I once questioned Elmer Keith's divinity on one board and took one heck of a beating for that. I didn't want anotheer whoopin or Veral Smith. As I said...very interesting! | |||
|
| one of us |
I question his good judgement in doing that, it would have been better for him to "ignore" you rather than to delete you outright. As it is, he has Waksupi talking to him now. Veral has already made the unfortunate mistake of being condescending to Waksupi. I think Waksupi just now intentionally shed over 100 of his normally high IQ points in order to continue the discussion at Veral's implied level of his (Waksupi's) intellegence. Polite, but number-challenged -- that's our Waksupi. http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=21985 I hope Veral or Waksupi or somebody has enough sense to back off on this mess before it gets completely out of hand. Doesn't Veral realize that we are "customers" or at least potential customers? I really liked Veral's little blue book, too, it made a lot of sense to me. Oldfeller | |||
|
| one of us |
Quote: Elmer who?? Me too... I always thought we all pulled our pants on the same way. | |||
|
| one of us |
Quote: Understand Veral is about 70 yrs of age?? Anyone know for sure. My actual intent was to let him know we've all learned alot about cast shooten while he was 'on vacation'. Give him some time... he might come around. He needs to live in today and not what he THINKS his position in cast shooten is. But like all of us he's human and has failings. Mine are all to apparent around here to be sure. I do genuinely like and respect the man. We're from vastly different perspectives... but I do greatly admire common sense and it's implementation, which is what Veral is about per LBT IMO. Wonder if he'd cut me a SP1R say at 200 grs tapered? Methinks that'd SHOOTEN. | |||
|
| one of us |
Well, I do plead guilty as numerically challenged. Some people can't see letters properly, I can't see numbers properly. Trying to take a simple micrometer reading can take me an hour. The numbers just don't register. I really should get a micrometer and calipers with digital readout. It would save lots of time at the bench. Scoring the internet matches last winter was a real treat. Sorry, no re-counts at this date! I do agree it is rather unthinking to alienate a customer base. Not a good business move, considering the good custom builders who have come on the market during his absense. I realise he has been out of touch with the business, and hasn't had any previous contact with any of us before, for the most part. A month spent going through the old Shooters archives might benefit him considerably. I would think he would want to clarify things from his book, which is basically what I'm doing there. I do see Oldfeller has an inquiry on 6.5 bullets, and velocity. A little bait, perhaps?.... | |||
|
| one of us |
I spend time on Graybeard, but, from the time Veral's forum came up, I accepted that it was Veral's forum. In the unlikely event I have a question to ask him, I'll go there, but, in the meantime, I got better places to go. | |||
|
| one of us |
And Catwhisperer just set the hook... | |||
|
| one of us |
Actually, I hope he comes up with a really really great solution. I'd buy a mold from him in a heartbeat if he does. But even if he does not we will all learn something about his intentions and his "communications style" with real customers. Oldfeller | |||
|
| one of us |
I'm not a part of Greybeard's, but it does seem odd that a mold maker would react in the fashion described herein. I GREATLY VALUE the opinions and experience of those who post here--I have no idea how much time and effort I have saved by running ideas past all you guys, and I never fail to get honest, well thought-out responses based in real world experience. Many thanks, in other words. I only hope I can lend assistance as capably as my friends on these boards do. | |||
|
| one of us |
This has me wondering: What if Jack and Elmer were still alive and posting on the Internet? Knowing how open minded and conversant both of them were reputed to be  , I wonder what kind of responses they would make to people who questioned them in public forums? It just might be interesting.Don't get on Veral's case too hard, fellows. He is an old machinist, craftsman and small businessman, recently released from the Federal pen where he spent time as a result of his personal feelings about the Federal government and taxation (which feelings I can attest are echoed widely in the northern part of Idaho). How many "old craftsmen" of the gun world were and are persnickety, somewhat cranky fellows? Most of them?  So don't elevate him to the "both legs in his pants at once" status, nor villify him for being a simple human. He is what he is, a fount of cast bullet knowledge and a guy trying to get his business and his life back in order. I will pass the soapbox to the next guy. | |||
|
| one of us |
Quote: Jim I talked to Jack O'Connor on the phone when a very young shooter. I knew so little and he was so patient and understanding of my enthusiasm for shooten. Mr O'Connor was a true gentleman in every sense of the word. What the issue is IMO if Veral wants to make claims as to his products and knowledge-- some differing point of view is going to be presented to him when the words/terms "most accurate bullets available" or "Bullets which are better balanced than can be produced in any other molds". This advertizing copy is definitely open to discussion at a minimum. Veral the net is a great place to do business. But be prepared to back up your claims with more than just silence or a reputation earned yrs ago. | |||
|
| one of us |
Yes, I�ve read reports by several people that Jack was quite gracious in his time and knowledge, but have also read that he could be quite cranky at other times. Those that knew Elmer said that he was a particularly nice gentleman, if somewhat gruff in his mannerisms. Also agree that much of Veral�s claims seem to come directly from the �Handbook of Hyperbole� � although he is one of those particularly annoying kinds of people who, much like Elmer and his handgunning, make outlandish claims and then have the audacity to be right. I guess what I was really reacting to were these two comments in particular: �I do see Oldfeller has an inquiry on 6.5 bullets, and velocity. A little bait, perhaps?....� and then, �And Catwhisperer just set the hook..� My apologies to Waksupi for having to use his posts as an example, no personal offense meant even if it inevitably implies that. What I was thinking about was how Jack or Elmer would react to someone trying to �bait� them. I just see this older guy, a bit worn from time spent in a prison, trying to get his business on track again and also taking the time to respond to folks in an Internet forum. Remember Jack Belk and how he was darn near publicly lynched (not saying he was 100% blameless) in the Gunsmithing forum? All I�m saying is, people are people, none are perfect, some use more of a, shall we say, �salesman approach� than others. I don�t agree at all wth banning someone, that's not right. I�m just saying, let�s make use of what is still a wonderful source of cast bullet knowledge, and if at times that source behaves like a stereotypical used car salesman or just a cranky old man, well, just try to understand the human behind the words and try to forgive him his transgressions. | |||
|
| one of us |
"make outlandish claims and then have the audacity to be right" This is about the only point I find disagreement in. Not all of what Veral claims is fact. The points I presented to Veral on his "for-me-um" were specific points to address the sprue plate performance, bullet nose lengths etc. IMO he painted himself as expert sans an explainer to the points addressed. That's all. I have no problem Veral deleting posts. It's his option it appears but doing such on a site represented as a public forum negates the purpose of said forum... the search for nothing but the facts. I have suggested to Bill at GB just to label the Q&A to Smith an advertizing section and leave it as that. But please no pretense of a public forum with replies deleted cause someone doesn't care for a differing pt of view. I believe the majority of us see this net as a free exchange of ideas. Limiting that exchange doesn't sit well with the majority of us either. So Veral-- forums are open shooten country. I hope you can understand that. I wasn't gonna reply to the Idaho'ans about tax stuff. But you folks certainly ain't the Lone Ranger on that matter to be sure. To think or suggest there's no Federal law or authority to collect revenue to keep this country running sounds brain dead IMO. It's a reality that Veral has learned the hard way, albeit very foolishly-- again IMO. | |||
|
| one of us |
Nowhere in the tax code that says you have to pay. It does say that you have to file. A legal technical situation. I say let's get rid of ALL taxes, and have only a federal sales tax with zero exclusions. An end use tax, if you will. This includes houses, stocks, bonds, airplanes, etc. Yes, food too. All those tax folks in DC should be put on the streets to collect sales taxes, like from flee markets and garage sales. I bet we can drive the tax rate down to one half of one percent. ... felix | |||
|
| one of us |
Jim in Idaho - I made those comments, knowing the research and development Oldfeller has ably done with 6.5 bullets. And the fact that the 6.5X55 was wrung out to what we believe to be it's full extent by the old SCB members over the years. I am just curious if we will be told they can now be driven at full velocity with some magic bullet. No offense taken by your remarks. I am simply in search of more light. I do really wish Veral had the time to join us as "one of the boys" on the forums. I do wonder if he is paying for the web space for advertising there. I posted a holster and knife sheath on the board months ago, and was immediately informed in a private message that it was considered a commercial ad, and I was given a rate list for advertising. | |||
|
| one of us |
da more ya buy, da more ya pay. Works for me! Might even encourage a little more recycling as long as it's not MY range scrap!! Y'all think I wasn't gonna get on topic? As far as the current discussion goes, let him run his business the way he wants [in this 'free enterprise']. I talk with my feet and my money. This includes not going to forums where I dislike the environment. Ever wonder why some of the forums have only 3 or 4 topics or posts, the last one 3 or 4 days ago? Think I'll wander back over to the soup can discussion.... sundog | |||
|
| one of us |
And now don't you all feel real bad for picking on a nice old fellow like Veral? Shame on all of us, me included. (at >70 years old I bet he doesn't feel all that good all the time, either) It would be real hard to live up to Veral's image, even for Veral. He can't be wrong (ever) and he can't have manners any less that twice as good as ours. And he has to put up with us asking him questions about the stuff we have spent mucho time trying to get to work right (not all that sucessfully, I might add in reference to that 6.5 Gustav Swede that I asked him about). OK, I'm ashamed of myself (and I quit, too) As far as "bait", unless Veral is really a catfish and likes things that smell pretty bad he would have plenty of enough sense to keep his lips off a 6.5 turns per inch twist rifle like that Carl Gustav Swede. (which is why he will likely never answer that particular thread) To bite on that one he'd have to love a challenge enough to rise to the bait like a young bass hitting a bull frog that's bigger than he is. Besides, I remembered his molds costing about $85, not $125 (plus shipping). Goodness gracious, that's the equivalent of FIVE (5) of our in-house special mold runs! I can't afford to find out what Veral knows about 6.5 cast rifle bullets at that price. Do you realize that you could just pay outright for the LEE $100 set-up charge and then pay RETAIL for the one mold you got and come out for the exact same dollars??? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wow !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good luck to you selling your molds, Veral. Oldfeller | |||
|
| one of us |
I snuck over and took at peek the forum in question and it is for certain a sales vehicle. That really doesn't bother me because everybody has to eat. I hear Jim in Idaho, as I have known a few cranky old folks in my lifetime. I am starting to become one!Many times there knew their stuff and just din't have the patience to deal with newbies and whippersnappers who made them back up their claims. I exchanged several letter with Elmer Keith on a couple of topics and he did not take himself as seriously as his disciples do. His final position when pressed was "Go out and try what I am talking about and them come back and tell me I am wrong". I found that reasonable and also found out he was right. Lee Jurris is an active poster on another forum and can be testy at times, but the has earned the right as he has a long lifetime of experience. He won't get mad and pick up the ball and leave, he will keep on arguing until he wins or everybody gets tired. Although he did get so mad at me once, i thought he was going to come over here and beat me within an inch of my life. We called a truce and don't visit the subject anymore and get along just fine. All of this goes to say that I don't mind Veral being testy, opinionated, or commercial. However I do think it is bad form to delete folks who question him. Dialogue/argue until the light comes on in somebody's head, or else reach an impass and just agree to disagree, pulling the plug is bad sportsmanship. Just my opinion. | |||
|
| one of us |
I read the post on Bullet Performance by Waksupi in GBO and I can�t see where Veral was condescending, although it sure does look like a blatant plug to �buy my book�. I�d be interested in reading the exchange that was banned, if that�s possible. I put something in the African forum under the �.45-70 in Africa� post about not jerking one�s knees until one knows where of one speaks, so I�d like to read the exchange before commenting. Was there any reason why the 6.5 post was deleted? Again, I�d just like to know the facts to be able to form a somewhat educated opinion. Anyway, apparently that particular forum is indeed the �Ask Veral About His LBT Business� forum, whether one likes that or not. I believe that Graybeard specifically said that if one wants to discuss (or argue, I guess) different aspects of cast bullets that the general cast bullet forum is where that is done. | |||
|
| one of us |
Quote: So it's the Veral for-me-um. No problem. We'll discuss his claims elsewhere. Your use of the word 'argue' isn't even near the mark. Your here to defend Smith pure and simple. No problem. But state the facts correctly. I questioned some of his claims... that's all-- and I might add in a non contentious manner. Smith chose the silent route and the deletions. Again no problem with such... just label his site as advertizing and there's no questioning his marketing hype. An net imfo commercial posing as a forum IMO with no recourse as to his claims isn't going to represent Smith to best advantage long term. | |||
|
| one of us |
I yanked the 6.5 Carl Gustav post -- really for five very good personal reasons. First, I had tendered a serious offer to buy a mold if he had a good answer for the 6.5 question then I realized Veral wanted 5x my normal going cost of our group-run "specials" molds for cutting just one of his blocks. That's way too steep a price just to get my question partially answered. Second, Veral never responded at all -- which turned out to be a good thing. Thirdly, you made me feel like I was a mean, dirty rotten SOB for "picking" on him (although I hadn't actually gotten around to doing that yet - but it could have happened though, and I would have felt really bad about it afterwards). Fourth, I would have been tempted to ask him the greatest unknown mystery of all cast bulletdom ..... -- "Where exactly do the Waksupi/Bruce B./Jumptrap/Oldfeller 6.5mm 2,400+ fps super speeder cast lead bullets really go and exactly WHY do they go there?" -- Nice neatly-folded-over bent bananas flying off to the right are one thing, but some of very fastest, fully-hardened ones never seem to arrive there at all ...... In any case, this way Veral can still one of my favorite cast bullet heroes and I can still think his little blue book is really neat stuff. I really didn't want that to change, either, which is good reason #5. Lastly, it's Christmas. Me and Ralphie, we both still believe in Santa Claus and in the effectivity of Red Ryder BB guns to butt-bust them creeping, crawling back-yard Black Bart bad guys (shooting their buns off with nice heavy shiny cast HBC Viper pellets, works every time). <g> Oldfeller | |||
|
| one of us |
"Nice neatly-folded-over bent bananas flying off to the right are one thing, but some of very fastest, fully-hardened ones never seem to arrive there at all ......" Been there and done that. I remember a test run once using the new Lee [at the time] factory crimp die. I followed the DI-rections and got a awful firm crimp. Reason was the cast bullet was larger than the caliber .308 which Lee's instructions were tailored to. LSS-- this load previously printed 2-3" at 100 didn't hit a thing... nothing that I could hear or see. Understand this loading >2600 fps or more. I de-duced 'blow'n them thru', something I'd managed previously. The pressure is high enough to overcome the holding power of the bullet surface and it just blows on by the rifling. Complete slugging of the bullet down the bore. The bullet's surface strength isn't strong enough to withstand that amount of pressure and acceration. Fire one of your 'no hit'm' into a large container of water and examine the engraving marks. Lee did this test BTW in his manual using a fast shotgun powder-- getting to a point where the bullet failed to take the rifling. | |||
|
| one of us |
An extra slick lube (castor oil) without compensating viscosity (lanolin) will help this skidding along, and dramatically too. Hafta' balance accuracy with speed, and that cannot be had together with a twist too fast for the bore. ... felix | |||
|
| one of us |
Quote: Felix the same bullet has been fired at 2855 fps into less than 2" at 100. Larger and harder and not quite the peak cup. When the bearing surface strength is below what the speed and pressure produce no lube will help. Been there and tried many times. Increase bearing surface strength and it will hold to a higher speed and cup. | |||
|
| one of us |
That's an absolute, Aladin, what you said. The wrong lube mix will make it worse, not better, because of the "hydro-plane" effects. Fast twist barrels are an enemy to be recond with by overcoming their negative effects on weaker boolits. ... felix | |||
|
| one of us |
This sounds like an excellent place to leave this tread, and follow through with these last few posts on a different topic. | |||
|
| one of us |
Quote: Agreed. | |||
|
| one of us |
"Your here to defend Smith pure and simple." No, I'm not. I had no intent to come rescue Veral or get into any kind of pissing contest with anybody. I just saw, IMO, yet another mob forming (I hate that word mob, it conveys the wrong tone but I can't think of another term - "piling on"?) and tried to make some lighthearted comments to just "let it be". Search for my signature in this forum and on 24hcf. You will see that a goodly part of my posts are simply urging people to ease up, just discuss the facts and not to gang up on someone else. Again, I tried to phrase my remarks in a friendly reminding sort of way, not as preaching from a high horse and definitely not as a personal attack on anybody. Note all the little emoticons in my posts. But it seems that despite my attempts to keep the tone light my remarks have inadvertently bruised an ego or two and for that I apologize. Again, it was not my intent to argue or disparage anyone, but to be honest, such irritated responses usually come from having someone's ox gored. From my post: "just try to understand the human behind the words and try to forgive him his transgressions." If I have transgressed against anyone here then all I can do is ask your forgiveness as well. Now - a serious offer - no slander or sarcasm intended. I know of Veral's work through his book, his products and a few phone calls. I have been casting for rifle and handgun since 1976 but haven't done much in the last three or four years. Apparently you have quite a bit of practical knowledge as well. Do you have any published works? I'm always looking to further my knowledge and would be interested in reading what you have found that differs from Veral's experience or findings. | |||
|
| one of us |
| |||
|
| one of us |
Waksupi, Thanks! That's a lot of stuff to download and review. Hmm, I started posting on Shooters in, I think, about 1998. I seem to recall some flare up and mass bannings and moved over to 24hourcampfire as a result. Will download these and read as time permits. Any suggestions on organizing them? I can open the zip files but don't seem to see any kind of viable index. CastIndex.htm shows a summary but those links get the "page can not be displayed" error. Is each individual .cfm.htm file a complete thread, and if not, how does one link the individual pieces of the threads together? Oh well, I'll keep poking around. Anyway, thanks again. | |||
|
| one of us |
Jim - Download the zip files, and open them from there. They are rather unwieldy, and take time to go through. The easiest way I have found to search them, is to click on Start, go to Find, then Files and Folders, and do a search in the file for the particular topic you are interested in. There were never any flareups, or mass migrations from the cast bullet room. We always policed ourselves, and had very few trolls. | |||
|
| one of us |
Jim, I agree... There's LOADS of good info in there, and some of it even appears outside the Cast Bullet archive, too. Feel free to browse through the web, but if you want to get your own copy, I'll tell you how. Reconstructing the archive from the Zip files IS a little cumbersome, but not difficult. What you need to do is to duplicate the directory structure on the server. Start with a directory called "CastArch" - Anywhere on your HD is fine Unzip the files (5 total)from CastIDX.zip into this directory Then, create a directory called cbb00001 in the CastArch directory Unzip the files (a BUNCH of 'em) from cbb00001.zip into the cbb00001 directory Then, create a directory called cbb00501 in the CastArch directory Unzip the files (a BUNCH of 'em) from cbb00501.zip into the cbb00501 directory .... Repeat this procedure for each cbb*.zip file in the archive. There are 2 things to look for while you're doing this... 1) the name of each sub-directory in CastArch should match the name of the .zip file, without the ".zip" 2) make sure when you're unzipping the files that they go into the correct sub-directory. Your unzip program might want to create a directory structure that's stored in the zip file (some may have it, some may not), and you'll end up with the expanded files stored one level too deep, i.e., in ..\CastArch\cbb00001\cbb00001\whatever.htm.cfm That's not right. It should be ..\CastArch\cbb00001\whatever.htm.cfm If this happens, you can just 'move' the files up to the right level. All the .gif files aren't absolutely necessary, but they create the exact "look" of the Shooters board. I recommend you move them also if you need to. Note that each sub-directory has its own index.htm. These point to the 500 threads that are in each sub-directory and are important, and should not be left out or mixed up. When you're done, the ..\CastArch\index.htm file should get you to any index, and from there to any thread. Yes, each *.htm.cfm is a complete thread. Lastly, I apologize about the bad link banner above the "All Vertical is going out of business" text, and any related delay. This is because of a banner ad in the original page that linked to AllVertical.com. Now that that site no longer exists, the computer waits for the lookup to timeout.  I've tried incorporating a search engine into the site, but it didn't work. Sorry. But, since you're getting your own local copy, Ric's solution will work. Now, if you want to reconstruct the ENTIRE archive from the zips, it gets a little more complicated, but the same general procedure holds. You just have another level of directory ABOVE CastArch. I won't go into that unless it's needed though. I'm not sure what the CastIndex.htm file is that you mention. I don't see it in the zip files, but that doesn't mean it isn't there. Enjoy LostCajun (aka Urugami) | |||
|
| one of us |
Oh... one more thing. In the main index, most of the index pages are labeled "Topics 1-500" on down to "Topics 10501-11023". These are the first batch of captures I did, and contain all threads as they appeard on 11 Jan 03. The threads most recently posted to have the smallest numbers, and work their way up to the oldes thread at Thread# 11023. Some of the older threads don't come up right, but I checked, and the Shooters board itself couldn't find them. Nothing I can do about that. And yes, I didn't get a good final snapshot of the board. I had a computer failure that I couldn't fully fix until after the board had gone away entirely. Sorry bout that, but when the motherboard fails, ya can't do a thing. LC | |||
|
| one of us |
"any kind of pissing contest with anybody" sez Jim from Idaho. Ok-- point by point. A frank discussion isn't a pee-ing contest. It's called the internet, where opinion/comments/facts are OPEN to a free exchange of varying poins of view. "I just saw, IMO, yet another mob forming (I hate that word mob, it conveys the wrong tone but I can't think of another term - "piling on"?}" Your very mistaken. Again people state their ideas, feelings, and opinions for review-- whatever FWIW. I do not find any critical reviews of Smith's person other than my comments per "leaving ��..". I'd take that comment back if given the chance-it too directly underscores my own disgust with his previous choices. But I'm judging HIM more than commenting on cast shooten-and for that Veral I apologize. "Search for my signature in this forum and on 24hcf. You will see that a goodly part of my posts are simply urging people to ease up" Look under my handle. Something well over a 1000 posts here... been here since the beginning of this cast shooten forum when it was me, Paul and few others. A good share of those posts deal just with cast shooten. I will compare my log of posts to anyone's-remember I only said compare. Role of the peacemaker... I'm going to be blunt. There's always some individual who thinks stepping into a verbal exchange is a cooling mechanism, that individual somehow taking the high road. That's merely a fantasy... getting to the bottom of the issue at hand is the quickest way to resolution. Adding your emotional slant on an issue isn't helping one drop. Understanding-- I�ve never encountered you here before or any other forum at Accurate. I have no knowledge of what your role has been. I have no personal axe to grind against you. "inadvertently bruised an ego or two and for that I apologize" Actually I dunno who's your referring to and see no reason for any apology. Be sure it ain't mine� ************************************************************ Referring to said �baiting� issue. That was the wrong wording to use. If Veral had indeed offered a solution-- which has been already found in real world shooten, to this scenario of similar design or one improved or showing true improvisation he�d have made major HAY around here. Rather NOT a baiting�but in reality a square one Q in �6.5 Sweede Shooten 101�. We just wanted Veral to show us the goods� Veral deleting posts sans an explainer isn�t a good policy on this net. I went into the forum �Ask Veral Smith� in the same mode as any other. GB/Bill did draw the lines responding, the forum is a marketing tool�. Fine. But labeling it as such with the understanding you�re a paid advertiser� putting the facts up front is just good business practice. This thread has run way the hell to long. Waksupi called it a day or so ago�and that�d be wise. It�s done for me. | |||
|
| one of us |
Jim in Idaho - There were a few, minor, 'flare ups'; but as Waksupi said, Shooters (Cast Boolets anyway) was very well self-regulated. Cats took it prety hard. Tim K. | |||
|
| one of us |
Tim, Not like that we would EVER do something like that to a sweetums kitty cat. Pppphitt .... (pock!) "Yeeeowrrrrrr" (cough) (cough) (sound of Pameula Anderson hugging a kitty cat) Oldfeller | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia