Can copper and/or silver be added to lead to get higher hardness without the brittleness given by antimony?

If yes, how and how much?

Thanks...

I doubt if silver would do anything substantial, plus why add that much expense when you can just use straight wheel weights and heat treat them, if you are looking for hard cast?

Copper will float, so that's out of the question.

Trace amounts of copper and silver are common in lead alloys. I dunno I would add them on purpose but I'll sure throw stuff with a little copper in it into the pot.

You can get 95/5 percent lead free solder. Just look for the one that says 5 pecent silver. I get mine at Home Depot. About a three foot piece will add just enough tin to wheel weights for easy castability and the silver is just a bonus. That's for ten pounds of WW.
My personal do-all alloy is 10 pounds WW, 1 pound linotyupe and the three foot piece of 95/5 solder. Makes a good bullet in the 12 BHN range and will heat treat to 30-31 BHN. Not sute if it'll be brittle, but they sure shoot good for me.
Paul B.

Paul,

I'm looking for a max of 3-4% antimony, and 25+ BHN. How do u heat treat yours?

My problem is that I'm living in Nigeria, and can't get good hard cast shipped from the US. Want to reload for 45/70, shooting heavy game. Need bullets that won't mushroom, and won't blow up on heavy bones. I know that pure linotype is too brittle, as is a 7-8% antimony alloy.

Thanks

Philip

You might want to consider obtaining one of Veral Smith's paper back books on Jacket Performance with Cast Bullets. He is the owner of LBT (Lead Bullet Technology)

This book will give you step by step instruction on the hows and whys of heat treating and will walk you through every step. Instructions are in his book for heat treating various combinations of allows along with straight wheel weights, for any BHN hardness your shooting requires.

Phillip. Winger Ed's suggestions will work OK. Randy garrett, the gentleman who makes to super hard bullets in his loaded ammo uses basically the same method and apparently has no problems or complaints about the quality of his ammunition so I won't fault the method.
According to Dennis Marshall and Bill Ferguson, both metallurgists, their opinion though is to cast the bullets and size them without lubing, heat treat them in an oven, (I use a toaster oven.) then drop them in the water to quench. Then, lube the bullets with a sizing die .001" to .002" larger than what you normally size your bullets. It is more work, but I agree with Marshall and Ferguson that results are more consistant.
Also, it's easier to size the bullets before they're hardened.
You might try looking at barnes & Noble for a copy of the RCBS cast bullet loading manual #1. It's be in the out of print section if they have any. That book gives a very simple explanation on heat treating bullet, along with a photo of the type basket used to hold the bullets.
The suggestion to get veral Smith's book is also a darn good idea. I keep meaning to get one myself, but never seem to get around to it.
All of my cast bullet hunting is usually for deer and smaller animals using the BHN12 alloy without heat treating. The harder version has been used basically for shooting targets in a private postal competition.
The only bullet I've done any serious work with in the 45-70 is Lyman's #457122, a 330 gr. plain based hollow point. Again, I've just used the softer alloy. There just isn't anything here in Southern Arizona to justify the harder bullets.
Well, maybe elk in black timber.
A friend of mine did borrow my Marlin 45-70 years ago to do a deep black timber elk hunt. He got a shot at the south end of a northbound elk at roughly 25 yards. (Texas heart shot.) The bullet hit at the root of the tail, traversed the entire length of the elk coming to a stop against the skin of the front of the elk's chest. he gave me the bullet and you can almost reload it and shoot it again. Bullet came from a 500 gr. mold I used to have, and the metal was wheel weight metal age hardened without quenching.
I think it would help out if I knew just what type of alloy or metal supply you have. Feel free to E-mail me the details, and I'll see what I can figure out.
Paul B.

YOU COULD TRY LINOTYPE FOR HARDER BULLETS. MY MENTOR SAYS IT MAKES HARD LIGHT BULLETS.

H.C. I once read an article in a very old gun rag sometime around 1959-60 where the writer actually tried to cast and shoot real silver bullets. The end result is he couldn't do it. Couldn't get the metal hot enough, or something, I don't recall what.
I'm not sure what the silver content in Lasercast is, but probably ain't much. They probably have 25 pound ingots of whatever mix they use made up on special order from some foundry or other supplier.
FWIW, they used to harden lead bullets with mercury back in the 1800's. Wonder what the life expectancy of the guys making those bullets was?
Paul B.

Philip, yes, to your original question. But as the copper content increases so does sheeting and poor mould fill out. That can be compensated for with tin. Felix and I made some coppered alloy by adding copper babbit and got some with too high copper content and could not pour good bullets. So, we diluted it and added some tin, works fine. The ingots ring like a bell when dropped on concrete. Just because a bullet is hard doesn't mean it is not brittle. Gotta have something in it to hold it all together. I don't know the percentages, you just have to experiment. sundog