I picked up a 30-30 Marlin 336 RC with a 16" barrel at a gun show for what I thought was a great price. When I shot it the first time, I couldn't extract the brass. After tapping the brass out (and breaking the extractor in the process), I found the brass was "belled" about 3/8" up from the rim. Obviously, a ringed chamber.

Candidate for a rebarrel job, right? Well, not so easy to do. I called Marlin, and first, they no longer make 16" barrels for the 336, and second, they won't take in any guns older than about 1970 or so (this one was made pre-65). GPC doesn't have any barrels in stock, and says they may not get any more for this model. I don't have any way to cut the sight dovetails on a blank barrel (no dovetails needed for the mag holders).

So, here I am, wondering how to keep this rifle a shooter instead of a parts gun. The only thing I can think of is to try to use the "sandpaper on a stick" trick to open the back of the chamber to the diameter of the ring (about .005 oversize). If I did that, and kept that brass separate from other 30-30 brass, would that work?

Thanks, DJ. Not being one to accept the obvious the first time around, I fired two more rounds through it, with the same results. I had to tap the fired brass out of the chamber with a brass rod after replacing the extractor. All three expended rounds had the same .005" oversize swelling in the same place.

The gun was clean. It's pretty clear to me the chamber is ringed.

Grumble, sleeve it. Same barrel with new insides! sundog

grumble....I been following this thread with interest.

Am I assuming that the loaded rounds chamber freely before firing?

My 25/35 (tight chamber to specs for a change) will not accept other than new brass or new ammo unless I first swage this "ring" out of once fired brass. After that, it's all right with reloads.

If it's accepting the loaded rounds all right, I'd say you got a bulge there.

You might check with Jumptrap. I think he pulled a 30/30 barrel off a Marlin last year and if he's not using it for a fence post on his goat farm, should be able to let you have it for a rebarrel. If not, check with Dennis Olson in Plains, MT. He's rebarrelled several Marlins for me and probably has a 55 gal drum full in the back room./beagle

Grumble, I think we need more info before we give up on that barrel. I think ringing would be further up on the case also. You did not describe the ammo that was used. Does this happen with a light load at say 1100 fps and a cast bullet or them other odd color bullets that you get at a store? What was the load that was used? If you slug the bore what does it read? Could it be rechambered for another rimmed 30 cal cart.? Could be a round was left in the chamber for years and the ring is from corrosion that has been cleaned up. wrg-inc

Good comments and advice, one and all!

The load (blush, dig toe in ground) was a 110g FMJ 30 Carbine bullet that I use as a coyote load for my 30-30 truck guns. 39gr WC 844. It's a medium load for the round. The same load works fine in any of several other lever guns.

No BS, the problem with the cerro-safe idea is that the chamber cast would do the same thing as the brass, and the swollen part of the chamber would hold the casting just like it does the brass.

beagle, the sized brass goes in and out just fine. Once fired, it has to be driven out of the chamber, and the marks on the brass make it pretty obvious that it has fireformed to a swollen or ringed chamber. If Jump doesn't jump in here, I'll email him. Any contact info on Dennis Olson?

Sundog, I like the idea of relining the barrel, 'cuz that's something I've never done before. Question is, what can I rechamber it to? So far as I can tell by feel with a tight cleaning skag, the tube itself is just fine, but the chamber is swollen just in front of the receiver ring. What I'd really like to do is convert it to a 35/30, but I don't know if that's a do-able thing or not.

Thanks for all the help!

[ 09-10-2003, 01:08: Message edited by: grumble ]

Mmmmmm, 35-30 ackley with 22 twist would be this cat's meow! That ackley chamber might be enough straightness to clean up that chamber, depending on where that 0.005 is. Too close to the head of the case, forget it, and just junk the barrel with a bend in it so nobody else will use it, ever. ... felix

The real problem with any straight sided case, especially with a strong shoulder like an ackley would have, is feeding from the magazine. You would have to be 100 percent sure that with boolit seated the boolit will hit the top of the chamber before the case would, so the sharp angle shoulder will slide underneith in gratis fashion. Probably an impossible wish on my part for a pistol shootin' mama round, such as a 30-35 grain case shooting 150 Keiths at a full 2400 fps. ... felix

Perhaps your fix could be rechamber to 307 Win.Left a tad short so factory load wouldn't chamber in error.(Loaded to 30/30 pressures of course)

grumble,

I'm (ass)(u)(me)ing that sundog meant to have the whole thing bored out and a new barrel/chamber lining installed and chambered to 30 WCF. That way the outside barrel markings match what you actually have.

I have an OLD 38-55 octagon barrel (26") I am considering for the same process to put on an OLD 94 Winchester action.

Regards,

When it comes to relining a barrel, what you can reline it to, if at all, depends on how much material there is in the barrel. Once you bore it out to accept the liner, there has to be enough barrel metal left for safety. These lever gun carbines with light barrels can prove to be problems. Were it mine, I would think about relining it to 25-35 or even 218 zipper to save as much of the original barrel material as possible, but a good man who does this work can advise you better than I.

Grumble,

Seems to me you know what's going on. There's a barrel out there, somewhere. If it's too long, cut it. Its worth it.

P.S. If you just can't get this done, let me know...

James....Dennis can be reached at:

Dennis E. Olson
Personal Information:
Address:
P.O. Box 337
500 First Street
Pla.ins Montana 59859
Phone: 406-826-3790
Company: Olson Gunsmithing

From that description, I'd say there's small bulge. Not too uncommon on 30/30s./beagle

beagle, I called Mr Olson, and he seems to be the kind of craftsman they don't make anymore. Fine person to talk to, and he really knows his stuff. No barrels to sell, though. He did say he could make me a 35-30, but the cost would be more than I want for an inexpensive gun like this one. Sure would be nice to have, though.

What he suggested was to ream it out to either 303 Savage or as idabull suggested, 307 Win. The 303 Sav would remove less metal, so that's the direction I'm leaning. For either, getting a reamer and brass might take some looking. I'm gonna have to ponder on this for a while I reckon.

I'm still wondering what will happen if I use some sandpaper on a dowel to open up the rear of the chamber by .005" to make the breech end of the chamber the same size as the ringed portion. If fireformed brass is necksized and reserved for just that one rifle, it seems to me it will work ok. Since that oversized ammo wouldn't feed in another 30-30, it should be safe enough. Of course, 5 thou is quite a bit of steel, and I don't know how concentric I could be in doing it.

I appreciate all the comments and help from y'all.

I have used this company for reamer rentals with good results. The 303 Brit is listed. With shipping it will probaly run you about $39.00. wrg-inc Reamer Rentals

James...Dennis is the kind they don't make any more...a fine craftsman. Only problem is he's kinda stingy with words when you talk to him. He's done 4 rifles for me and evereyone was what I ask for. I recommend him for any that want lever work done. Never tried anything else with him.

I stirred Jumptrap up..maybe he'll get on line after a while and let us know about that barrel.

I'd try lapping the hind end of that chamber a little before I did anything else. Might not need .005" to get by.

A 35-30 would be a darn nice shooter. I always wanted one but never let the urge get the best of me.....yet./beagle

I thought the 307 W. Chamber could be cut into existing 30/30 with a 308 W reamer. since the rim is already cut.. 307 W brass is a lot easier/cheaper for me to get than 303 SAvage ,too. If you will be sole user of the prodcut you wouldn't nec have to short chamber either, just don't load to 307 W saami pressures/// Fwiw

303 Savage brass is gonna be hard to find. I think I'd look into a liner. There's guys that advertise in various magazines to do the 30-30. BTW-303 Savage and 303 Brit are not the same. You could also check with ER Shaw about a barrel. Or check Auction Arms, Guns America, etc for a barrel. Also- there was an article by Ron Charmichael, (not Jim Charmichael), in one of the Handloader Cast Bullet annuals on the 356 Rimless, which is a 35 Rem chamber opened up to 356 Win specs, but loaded to 35 Rem pressures. The 358 reamer would do the job on your gun, but I don't know about bolt face size. Just a thought.

Nonte says that you can form .303 Savage from .30-40.

quote:

---

Turn rim down to .505" diameter; Swage head to .442" diameter; Trim to 2.01" length; Size full length; use .308" bullets.

---

Some links of interest (and not just for you ):

Quality Cartridge
M Custom

Chuck Hawks
Ken's Ammo and Reloading

Old Western Scrounger

The upshot seems to be that brass is about $22 for 20 (what I paid for 7.65x53 over 30 years ago in 1973 dollars!) IOW, CHEAP. You can also get loaded ammo. If it were me and I took this go on it, I'd get a 100 cases (ok, 200 maybe 300 ) and live with the rifle the rest of my life. I've already got some 190 gr. Winchester JSPs for it! NO, I don't own a .303 but I've been looking at some. Yeah, just 'cause I've got bullets.

I still think there has to be a barrel out there. Failing in all things you could always pawn it off on one of your friends...

A few years back I put a liner in a very original M92 in 25-20 at the urging of our group over on shooters. It was a good decision. Matter of fact, I got some of Beagle's latest 257312 HPs on the bench for testing (he sure is a swell feller for gifting them to me!). Anyway, the cost, even though more than I wanted to shell out, was worth it to put this rifle back in working order, especially since it had been my grandfather's. Looking at it from the outside, no one would ever guess.

In your particular case, Grumble, I might lean toward just reaming a new chamber for some next larger 30 cal catridge. Might be easier and less expensive. sundog

Man, this is getting complicated! Lots of great ideas. If I don't reply to everyone's thoughts, apologies in advance.

idabull, the 308 Win case is close to the 307. Main differences I can see are that the 308 is about .006 'skinnier' than the 307, and the neck is about .030" shorter than the 307. So, properly sized 307 brass would be a very snug fit and the longer neck would prevent the brass from going all the way into the chamber if I use a 308 W reamer. I really like the idea though, cuz I already have a .308 reamer. I can see how a workaround would make this do-able, though.

Pecoswells suggested a smith in Albq that relines just the chamber. I just talked to him (a very nice guy named Bedeaux, (505) 344-6277), and he came up with several ideas, including cutting down a used 30-30 barrel he might have on hand. That might be the least expensive option -- if he'll cut the front sight dovetail for me, I think I can shorten the barrel, recrown it, and do the headspacing myself. He also recommended that I try some dummy 307 W through the action to make sure feeding wouldn't be a problem with the longer case. (I'd recommend a call to this guy for gunsmithing questions of any type, he's very friendly and willing to help solve problems -- one of us, except he's too busy to join us here <G>

My head's swimming with all the alternatives y'all have suggested. Since I can't seem to ever leave well enough alone, at this moment, I'm thinking of rebarreling with the cut-down barrel, but once the ringed barrel is removed, running the .308 reamer into it and maybe trying out the 307 Ver. II. Too bad the 336 isn't as easy to swap barrels on as a Savage 110!

Guys, I really appreciate all the help, and I hope I haven't left anyone out in my replies.

Grumble: If you go for the new barrel blank, it's no big deal to cut the dovetails by hand. Use a hacksaw to cut several closely-spaced slots in the center, to remove the bulk of the metal, then use a safe-edged 6" three-corner file (grind one face smooth, or get one from Brown-L), and work very slowly and carefully, checking with the sight as you go. Proper sight dovetails are slightly tapered, wider on the right side, and the bases are tapered to match. Slide the sight in from the right, small end first (mark it with a dot of "White-Out"), and work slowly until it comes almost to center. Check by shooting your preferred load, and tap front or rear sight with a brass drift-punch as appropriate, until the group comes to center. floodgate

Hmmm. A couple months ago, I had a long talk with the techies at Brownell's about that very thing. I thought that surely they'd have either a file or some sort of kit for a gunplumber like me to cut dovetails. "No such animal," he said.

I may have to give them another call to see if another techie might know more than the guy I talked to.

Thanks for the tip, floodgate!

James....Talked with Jumptrap this morning. The 30/30 barrel went on the Bay last fall....sorry./beagle

I'm surprised that no one has suggested the obvious. Return the gun! I know, you usually do not get business cards at a gun show, but it is a thought. All you wanted was a short handy 30-30, but got a headache instead. Have you tried Gun Parts Corp. for a bbl? shooter...

Grumble - I've cut dovetails by hand on several rifles over the years. The hack saw thing is the way to go, along with the safe file. They are easy to produce from a three sided file, and grind one size smooth. If you are nervous about cutting the barrel, start with a piece of scrap, and practice a time or two first.

OOPS! In re-reading the post I see where you've tried GPC. Sorry. shooter...

Grumble: Your Brown-L techie was full of prunes! My 2000-2001 catalog shows standard 3/8" dovetail milling cutters #080-621-359 @$21.06 in hi-speed steel, and #080-621-060 @$47.91 in carbide, if you have access to a mill or a lathe with a milling attachment. (They have lots of others in special sizes, too.) For hand-cutting (and for cleanup and tapering after milling) they list a pair of nice, parallel-sided, safe-edge files #080-621-359, medium, double-cut and #080-648-060, fine, single-cut for finishing, at $12.45 each. If you want to make your own, look for a good (Nicholson or Grobet) "extra-slim-taper" or "double-extra-slim-taper", as the standard triangular files are a bit fat for the job. Have fun!

BTW, were there any Lyman 310 or Tru-Line Jr. dies (5/8" x 30 tpi thread) in that bunch you picked up, that you don't need? Several of us like to accumulate these for our tong tools.

floodgate

Grumble: OOOPS!! The files are #080-648-160 (medium) and #080-648-060 (fine). Can't read my own scribbles! floodgate

That's good info on cutting dovetails. I've been afraid to tackle it for want of knowledge. I don't have access to any serious machine tools like a lathe or mill, and wasn't sure how to do it by hand. Making a "safe" file (a new term to me) is a real head-slapper -- I never thought of that.

Update on the ringed barrel. I just finished following idabull's instructions and ran my 308 Win reamer into the chamber, stopping where my calibrated eyeball thought was about .125" short of completing the cut. I ordered the .307 Win brass and backordered the headspace go-guage. I guess you could say I'm committed! <G> I'm thinking that I'll trim the brass to .308 OAL (2.01") and use a .308 Win reloading die. FWIW, I ran some 308 Win dummy rounds through the action, and they feed fine, but of course the rimless cartridge won't extract properly.

I can't tell y'all how much I appreciate your help in this exercise in gun plumbing.

Oops, floodgate, I forgot to reply about your 310 dies. No, there weren't any in there. Kywoodwrkr got me interested in those, too.

But there are lots of misc. 7/8 x 14 dies in that old bucket! Most are fairly common pistol calibers and missing most of the internal parts.

grumble,

there is curently a Marlin 30-30 'take off' barrel on ebay and i sent the auction to you. these barrels appear there all the time and usually for cheap.

I wouldn't waste 5 minutes with some harebrained solution to an easy fix. save yourself lots of grief and just get a factory take off barrel and be done with it.

as my pappy always says: you can't make chicken salad from chicken shit. Go figure.

Yeah, Jump, but the obvious is no fun! Look at the entertainment we got from this thread. I have need for something simple too in terms of a new AC system I am building to augment what already is in the house, you know, to take care of some of the hot spots. Just modify what already is in stock is the answer, but no, I gotta' do something fun with my spare time. I am installing a heat pump in each of the two rooms needing support. Heating/Cooling sump water will be circulated from the swimming pool to the two units. A shower head/water fall will be installed as an exit from the system to keep the pool temp in check. ... felix

Grumble,

Go to marlin talk and post your questions there. I suspect there are people that have a barrel or two waiting for a new home.

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=1;hardset=20;start_point=0

Good luck.

Good evening Grumble,
If you want to try your hand at cutting the dovetail I have a jig that you'd be welcome to borrow. I bought it to cut a dovetail on the front sight base of a K-31 that I was modifying.
It's a hardened piece of square tubing with a setscrew through one corner to locate the dovetail. The tubing has a dovetail cut through the top to the correct depth. You just slide it on the barrel and get it square with the receiver and take your files and remove all the stock within the dovetail cutout. If you want to see what it looks like it's at www.Jedediah-Starr.com.
Good luck on your project and God Bless,
Randall in Houston (printolive@ev1.net)

I 'preciate the hep!!

Thanks for the offer to loan the jig, Trap. There's no better testiment to trusting a fellow shooter than an offer to loan tools. With your description and a visit to Jed's site, I think I can make something usable all by my own seff now.

Jump put me on to a cheap enough barrel on ebay and I can do the searches if that one gets too expensive. And, now that I've reamed out the chamber of this barrel with my 308 sizer and ordered the 307 Win brass, I think I'm all set.

I just sent off a couple of take-off Mauser barrels to a person in need, but I think I can practice cutting some dovetails on some other scrap. You folks may have created a monster here -- axles, motor shafts, and transmission splines may all fall prey to my soon-to-be-acquired skill! <GGG>

Thanks to all the help here from everybody, I think the problem with the rifle is solved, and I'll have a spare barrel on hand in case it ever happens again.