Is it worth casting for .223?

Ken.

I don't know about the .223 Rem, but for the .22 Hornet, it has been a big YES!! Also, casting for 30-06 in the M1 Garand is showing some promise, too.

All depends on what one is trying to accomplish

I cast a lot of pistol bullets but very few rifle bullets.

That is a fair comment. For over 30 years I have been casting for round ball black powder, .38/.357 revolver, and various 30 cal rifles. For .223, bullets are purchased in 1000 round quantities and wondered if it was worth casting this size.

I

quote:

Originally posted by gray fox:
Is it worth casting for .223?

Ken.

I guess it would be worth it if you can't buy regular jacketed bullets for a few years because of hoarders.

7000 (grs/lb) / 45 grs (bullet)= 155.5 (bullets/lb)

155.5 (bullets/lb) x 5 (lbs of alloy) = 777.7 (bullets)

$18.00 (cost of 5 lbs of Lyman #2 alloy)/777.7 = $.02/bullet.

Slightly over 2 cents/bullet? Add another 2 cents/gas check, $.04/bullet.

Box of 100 at $25.00 for jacketed bullets... 25 cents/bullet.

Ya, I would say it's worth it... financially.

Actually we have about 700 pounds of lead in the shop so the bullets only cost labour and since retiring this is not a factor. At about $200.00 per 1000 rounds or $0.02 per round is the same as the calculation above for casting.

As was stated above the key is are the bullets actually available to purchase. O.K. a .223 mold will likely be purchased on the possibility/probability of potential hoarder problems. Molds are cheap; not shooting is annoying.

Thanks.

I have a fair amount of experience casting .22 bullets. For what ever the reason, probably twist, my .223 will not shoot cast. My 22-250 and .222's seem to shoot very well with whatever I use. In either of those two I shoot them about 2000 to 2200 fps. This is the 58 grain RCBS mold and is designed for a gas check. They seem to shoot every bit as well without the gas check and leading not an issue. I have used them extensively shooting jackrabbits. This shooting for the most part was from inside a pickup at night using a spotlight. The blast is much reduced from using jacketed bullets which is a big plus. They will reach out about as far as a good spotlight. I use wheel weights which I did not have to purchase, so YES it is worth it.

So the trick is to keep velocity well below 3000 fps and no gas check is needed. That is good to know.

We can test and modify the lead hardness easily so here is an opportunity to experiment re when gas checks become necessary.

Great.

Thanks.

Lee makes a #90459 6 cavity mold for a 55 gr bullet. No personal experience but any more if I have an opportunity to purchase a 6 cavity mold for a bullet I will go that way.

Gray Fox--I shoot a 95 grain RcBS in 6mm in my .243. The Lyman book said my load should be around 2400 but a chronie, that seemed accurate with several other loadings showed 2900 fps. I don't know which one was the correct velocity, but I shoot that without gas checks as well and don't get leading. I question the benefit of gas checks anymore.

That is good to know. Thank you.

I cast at .225 and use these in a bolt action 223 rem and a bolt action hornet. I guess they will work in my AR platform guns but I don't really use them there.

I own at least one mold for every caliber rifle and pistol I shoot. I tell my neighbors that as long as they balance their tires, I will be able to keep shooting.

I actually have 3 .225 molds. One plain base NOE 34gr for cheap low velocity fun and general mousing around. One 50gr gas check WFN for a varmint thumper. The third is a 60gr spire point gas check.

There is something about shooting your own bullets that just feels good.

rch

The trick to casting for a rifle in my experience is getting consistent weight as well as sizing the bullet to fit the bore. Consistent weight is where the fly first gets into the ointment.

a 22-caliber projectile is very light, and it doesn't take much error in the part of casting or culling to produce variations in weight. Those variations equate to increased group size. There are those that will tell you that cast bullets that vary in weight of as much as half a grain will all go into the same hole. That is not my experience. To I will also state that I have a four cavity Lyman mould that consistently throws one bullet that is over a grain light. It is a Lyman 225415. Cavity variation in a multi-cavity mould is another issue, one that cannot be remedied unless the bullets are segregated by weight.

I read years ago that to get consistent weighted cast in small caliber projectiles, one should use linotype, as that metal was developed especially for its fine detail when used to cast letters. I have found that to be true. In my experience, most of the wheel weight metal out there any more has been re-melted and re-used to the point most of the tin is gone, and it takes about 2% tin to cast good projectiles. If you are one of us that still has "sweet" wheel weights, you should be thankful. Lino has gotten to be outrageous, and tin prices are out of sight nowadays.

Lino also allows one to run a rifle bullet a bit faster than with wheelweights, if that is desired.

When I cast for a 22-caliber rifle (or any rifle, for that matter) I ladle cast and use a single cavity unless the cavities drop bullets of the same weight. And by the same, I mean to the same tenth of a grain.

Outside of double that spread (or .2 grain) the bullets go back into the pot. But I am retired due to colon cancer and have a bit more time on my hands than some of you fellows.

what houser said, plus one!

Casting anything under 30 caliber is a PITA. That said, I have a nice NOE mold I used for my bolt gun 223's.

I also have several 22 cal moulds,but I use them for bolt actions,don't know on the A.R.'s haven't tried. I will say that also a friends son went to the scrap yard the other day + wanted to buy some wheel weights. Was told that they could not sell them to him as he was not a licensed smelter or some such rubbish. He asked if it was company policy + was told,No,it was from a new ex. order. No big surprise there.

There are so many things that can change impact from shot to shot, to be able to isolate it down to a tenth grain difference in bullet weight is some mighty precision shooting. To say it wasn't the wind, the primer, the powder charge etc etc but it was a 1/10th grain difference in bullet weight? My guess is that it really was the person pulling the trigger needed an excuse.

CM1,

Your accuracy standards depends on what accuracy discipline YOU are competing in these days.

Brian Litz measures down to a single grain of powder for his competition rifles. His team swept the top four positions at the Ko2M this summer.

I followed his advice on a cost effective electronic scale that weighs to .02grain. Two one-hundredths of a grain.

I did my initial calibration/testing using 250-some Berger 140gr Hybrid 6.5mm bullets. Out of the first one hundred, I had 99 that weighed 140gr, and one that scaled 139.8gr.

Next payday I am getting a SParker balance beam scale to double check. I use a Neil Jones measure, that holds to less than half a tenth.

We don't agree on much, but the competitors that are winning in any discipline are meticulous to the edge of anal in their ammunition preparation.

Rich

ISS---Down to a single grain of powder is not hair splitting at all. 1/10th grain is common.
Are you telling me that you could detect a difference shooting that 139.8 bullet with the 140 grain ones? If so, that's precision shooting---and I still think the difference would be more apt to be the trigger operator. I certainly agree that we don't agree on much. Well no I don't agree. Doesn't seem we agree on anything.

Hah! We DO agree on something!

Serious level competitors always want the shooter to be the only variable in the equation. That, and the wind. The equipment is so consistently accurate that many of the matches are reduced to wind gauging contests.

ISS, I would agree that the object is to reduce or eliminate variables. That is why we do such things as weigh and segregate cases, trim to length, weigh powder charges to a single kernel of powder (well, I don't, but I can understand why some would...), and weigh projectiles.

Matter of fact, I know some CBA shooters that shoot the old Ballards and such. I have watched those guys use the same single case repeatedly, breach seating the bullet and not even re-sizing the case for fear of changing something!

quote:

Originally posted by mike_elmer:
7000 (grs/lb) / 45 grs (bullet)= 155.5 (bullets/lb)

155.5 (bullets/lb) x 5 (lbs of alloy) = 777.7 (bullets)

$18.00 (cost of 5 lbs of Lyman #2 alloy)/777.7 = $.02/bullet.

Slightly over 2 cents/bullet? Add another 2 cents/gas check, $.04/bullet.

Box of 100 at $25.00 for jacketed bullets... 25 cents/bullet.

Ya, I would say it's worth it... financially.

If I couldn't make a bullet every 3 seconds, it would not be worth my time. I reload centerfire rifle bullets because they are tailor made for my rifles. I am not opposed to saving money by shooting cast bullets, but I am not casting them myself.

Truthfully, I would guess most folks cast their own for the satisfaction of doing so, not because it is a money saver. But I could be wrong...wouldn't be the first time.