The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Cast Bullets .35 cal. 200 gr. mould project?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Is that project dead? | ||
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I don't know, but I'm still interested. BTT! jpb | |||
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What style of 35 200 gr are you guys looking for? | |||
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If I recall correctly, it was something like the Bator 200gr bullet (perhaps with a slightly smaller nose diameter to allow its use in more rifles). This was supposed to be a group buy to get Lee to do this without their setup charge. Personally, I would get it if it was a 6 cavity mold, and perhaps if it was a 2 cavity. jpb | |||
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I think the 6's have appeal for ease of mounting up the count but the thing is often the whole group of guys doesn't want to plunge for a 6'er. Then you have runout from cavity to cavity which degrades accuracy espechially if areas of the slug which engrave aren't sized. I'm hesitant to discuss future mold runs from Lee that I might potentially run. I believe I need to get the HBC design cut and delivered... going thru one complete cycle and 'proving out' [BruceB term- I liked it] my system for doin' Lee molds. The first one is a learning experience but I do see ways to shorten the cycle from talk to cut to delivery. Having said that... I 'potentially' am going to run an improved version at a heavier 200 grs of 31141/311041. Improved... yeah we'll see, but it employs a wrinkle on the alignment to the bore with more ease of chambering and with a WIDE meplat. Wide.. maybe .285" if that proves out for feeding. But methinks this alignment method would work well on a 35 or any other cast shooten PRO-jectile. 'Nuff for now.. You guys anxious for the 210 HBC? Imagine.. we're having our first real winter in some time here in Wis.. My pot is waiting for a part.. it's really to cold to shooten.. I have about a 5 for cabin fever... you think your anxious to see it delivered....???  | |||
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Hi aladin I guess I'm all hot to trot for a Lee 6 cavity mold after I got my first one -- I was impressed! My first 6-holer was a Lee (Bator 260gr .358 mold -- 281gr when using wheelweights). Before this, I had used single cavity molds because I was worried about differences between cavities. Perhaps my Lee custom 6 holer is not not representative, but I can't find any differences among cavities by measuring the bullets with a micrometer, or by weighing the bullets. Maybe I just got lucky with my single Lee 6 cavity mold. Or does the fact that Lee does these on a CNC cutting machine mean that all the bullets from a single Lee mold are so uniform? I sure don't know, but after using that Lee 6 cavity mold, I'm spoiled! I'd like to hear of others experiences with Lee multi cavity molds... The lever action on my Lee 6 cavity mold to cut the sprue is great, and bullets just fall of my my mold as soon as I open it. I have some regular single cavity Lee molds, and the 6 cavity handle system is so much better quality and design that I will spring for the extra cost for all molds that I buy if what I want comes in that style. I have heard that Lee 6 cavity handles will fit most 1 and 2 cavitly mold made by other companies, but I don't know which ones. I am trying find out *which* makes of molds can be used, but Lee just says "most" on their website at this web page and hasn't answered my email inquiry. Has anybody here info they could share? In any case, post any potential "Lee mold runs" here -- I'm interested in anything 7mm, .358 and .375! jpb | |||
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I think the rumor of the different cavities in a Lee six-banger got started by some anti-Lee poster. It seems that those who hate Lee stuff the most are ones who've never used any Lee products, or maybe had a bad experience with one item and carried it over to everything Lee makes. I have quite a few Lee six-bangers, and there's no difference from cavity to cavity. I was following the threads about the 200-gr 358 a couple months ago. First, there were a number of different threads saying different things, and two or three different people started to "honcho" the effort. When each realized someone else was doing it, they all dropped the project rather than step on somebody else's toes. And, out of the dozen or so people who expressed an interest, it seemed that everyone wanted a different nose, weight, gas check, or depth of lube grooves. If someone will come up with a design and say, "this is it, who wants one?" there will probably be enough interest to at least get started on the project. If someone gets 12-15 firm orders on these (and Aimoo) threads, there will probably be 25+ orders by private email. We have some lurkers who will participate, but who don't want to post. Off Topic: We still have a .258 mold with only a dozen or so orders languishing at Midsouth, waiting for the final few people to bring the order up to 25 so they can place the order with Lee. | |||
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Thanks for the info about what happened to the previous "runs" of the Lee molds. Did you really mean a .258 mold, or was this meant to be a .358? If .358, could you post a link to the mold you mention at Midsouth? I was just there and can't find anything. Perhaps there are others in addition to me that are interested, but just don't know how to place an order! I'm ready to put my money where my mouth is if the mold is for something I can use! jpb Quote: | |||
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Grumble, you are more than likely right. One other thing to consider. Are you guys that good, and is your equipment bench rest quality? If the answer to either is no then slight deviations from cavity to cavity are practically meaningless. I'm purdy good, well used to be until the eyesight began to degrade, and save one or two rigs in the stable, I can't tell the difference. I've even played the index and registration game. Run of the mill factory or military stuff is simply not good enough to detect slight deviations. There are just too many other variables. Just my Sunday morning thoughts while working on the second cup.... sundog | |||
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No, I meant two-fifty-eight (258). It's a Batorboolit that a number of people decided they wanted, and by the time it got put up on the Midsouth special order page, it didn't get enough orders, for various reasons. The Midsouth website is slow and not especially easy to navigate, so their special order page doesn't get viewed very often. Oops!! Just went to the page, and it isn't a quarter bore, it's a .225-55. My mistake. http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/so_mould.asp | |||
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Thanks for the info! Hmmmmmmm.... Maybe I need to start casting for my .222 Rem! I hadn't thought of casting for this rifle because I've heard that tiny bullets like this are hard to cast. 7mm is the smallest I've cast. Maybe I will have to reconsider this and buy one of these molds... jpb Quote: | |||
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How about a 6 cavity NOSEpour? Just think! Perfect little bases. Most of your defects up in the nose where they would do the least harm. .358 200 gr- perfect! Another one to dream about.... Lyman 311410 but as a nose pour. Flat meplat to work in the lever guns. I'd like to try a bullet without the "scraping groove ". (That groove "north" of the lube groove. It causes 95% of imperfect casts. I really don't know if it is needed but I would like to find out.)Opinions? | |||
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The main reason for most mold makers making base-pour molds instead of nose-pour, is ease of dropout. That big flat base binds as the lead shrinks on cooling, making the boolit hard to get out of the mold. A slight convex curve on the base would help, but still adds that much more contact area with the mold, and the curved base might (or might not) affect accuracy. | |||
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On the subject of tiny cast bullets. I always believed the old wife's tale about small bullets were ultra difficult to cast with any sort of good results. I got on of the viper molds and even though it didn't work out for air rifles, it cast as slick as a 45 caliber. I have weighed them and they stay right on the money and that was casting in stright lead, with a little tin I could cast them while sleeping. Just thought I throw my "two cents" in. Ed Barrett | |||
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I talked to LEE and they said they did a similar run for F&M. I emailed them, but they haven't replied. Here is a drawing from LEE of the F&M 200gn mold.  I think that we could cut out one of the crimp grooves or move the base up to an overall length of around .71" to get close to 180gns. The wife said that we could bankroll the order and send all the shipments out from here. I'm thinking that we should include the $100 setup fee in the cost per mold assuming 15 orders. Then if we get 25 orders, I can just refund the difference when the molds ship. I'm not a mold designer, so I'll let those with more experience handle the details. I'm thinking that we could just tell LEE to cut one crimp groove out and cut as drawn otherwise. If someone else wants to handle the order, that's fine with me, but I'll be glad to do my part for the group. | |||
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Lars you guys are looking for a rifle mold with a check shank or a pistol bullet? This is a revolver bullet with a check shank design that... well, I dunno. I'd have to lookup the Hornady specs. Around here someplace.. | |||
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Lar, talk to Lee, but I think you'll find that they want a drawing from you. Otherwise, they'll have to take back the entire order if you say they didn't cut the mold as you asked them to. Sort of a "contract specification" dispute. Also, I'd agree with you about adding a 6 or 7 buck "surcharge" to cover the 25-mold fee. Do your own math, but charge enough so that if you get stuck with a few molds, it won't be a major liability to your checking account. As soon as you get a picture of the design, please post. I'll prolly be in for a mold. | |||
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Lars - the picture got my attention. I could see that 200 for either .357mag or .35 Rem. Further, I could see one plain base and another gas checked. Doing the CAD work is easy. There are several of us on this board that would/could do it. Someone needs to lead the project, make the decisions, and deal with ordering and mailing the moulds - that's the big part. | |||
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Hmm. I guess some of you are seeing a boolit pic in Lar's post. All I get is a logo pic for "FortuneCity.com." Could someone post the URL of that pic so I can look at it too? Thanks! | |||
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Nope, brings up the same fortunecity.com logo. I did find the URL though -- http://members.fortunecity.com/howda/pics/misc/c358-fm200.jpg I block cookies from all but selected sites, so that might be it. Maybe the fortunecity site requires cookies or other stuff I block. | |||
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I'm thinking a 180gn pistol bullet for the 357 mag, max and Herret that could also be used in the 35rem and larger. So something with a max nose length suitible for pistol rounds. I'll want to shoot this in the 357 Rossi levergun as well. If you can't see a pic, then right click on it and select Properties. It should show the URL of the pic. You can copy and post to the brower bar and go straight to the URL. I don't know why but sometimes the Fortunecity logo comes up. So what do you think, just remove one crimp groove and keep the shank the same? I guess for rifles, it could just be loaded out longer or something? | |||
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I couldn't get the pic yesterday, today it comes up fine. That's what I like about the net -- it's so consistent. <GGG> That's a lot of unsupported nose hanging out there, and the PB will force velocities to stay pretty slow. Personally, I'd be more in favor of a radiused nose and a gas check. If it is to stay a PB design, I'd also favor a thicker rear drive band. | |||
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Grumble my thoughts too. I thought that rear 'driver' was a platform for a check? Hard to tell. As is there's potential problems... Then-- if your going to shooten a peeee-stol bullet with a meplat, why not go for some width and increased shock effect? I'd redraw the thing if it were me.. just an opinion from someone who doesn't shooten pistols, not to rain on anyone's idea to be sure. A 35 cal heavy for the Maximum would work... | |||
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 If I was going to design a 35 cal 200 gr I'd start with this template and work from there. Figure out what it'd be shooten in and draw the specs to work the best in the most. | |||
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If that rear band is for a gas check, I suspect there'll be problems installing the checks, since the "lip" of the check will be entering the rear of the bottom lube groove. I'd envision lube smearing under the check and allowing uneven seating. If, OTOH, the rear band is supposed to be a reduced diameter drive band (like a bevel base), that would open up a whole new series of questions. This is Wally's design for a 200 grainer, that came out to an actual weight of about 220 gr. It might be worth looking at as a starting point -- I think it's a great design, it just came out too heavy. http://www.gilanet.com/batorboolits/C358-200-RF%20BATOR%2012-03-02.jpg This is Wally's 180 gr design, which I'd guess would come out of the mold at 190-200 grains. http://www.gilanet.com/batorboolits/1-Proposed%20new%20batorboolits/C358-180-RF%20BATOR%2002-17-03.jpg | |||
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Quote: Aladin, that is scary close to what I worked out on the Mountain Molds order program. Only differences were that I left off the crimp gropves and asked for a long shank to give what is effectively a second grease groove. | |||
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Understand now that's a 44 cal lifted off the Lee website ala LBT. Methinks you cut a mold for a rifle OR a pistol. | |||
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You thinks exactly right, Aladin. I started out designing a bullet for Maxed Handis, and it dawned on me that I could keep the capability of using that bullet in revolvers. I've crimped enough bullets on the front bearing band to know you don't really need a crimp groove. I have tentatively planned a 70% meplate but am considering going to 60% for better feeding from lever guns. How say you? | |||
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Okay, here's an attempt  Now what needs to be changed? | |||
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Note the beginning of the 30/30 thread I asked for input on levers working a bullet thru said action seated backwards sans a check seated. This a flat of .280"+ or a 90% meplat. This worked in the levers using the spec OAL of 2.55 I'd experiment with reverse seated bullets and see what you come up with. It's a short range hunting gun-- cast often goes thru-- wider means more energy dumped in the animal or on the target if shooten steel. Wouldn't hurt to throw the final version thru Wingryo if the flat to be cut is real wide. But the 70% area should work with no problems. | |||
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Quote: --scaled down by Lee? --Most all the decimals are in the wrong places --go 2 thou over groove or .360? --lube capacity is for a pistol? --assumes Hornady check shank? Other than figuring what nose length is best-- looks awful nice to me. | |||
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WHOOPPPEEEE Looks like a final drawing is in the "works". Coupla questions: Will this work about right (ratio of overall length of earlier bullet to this design)for 180 grains? Could we get a bit more lube in there(is it needed)?? Can I order mine NOW??  | |||
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I drew it large so it would be easier to work with, but forgot to change the scale when I dimensioned everything, so devide by 10. Assuming standard crimp groove, Hornady gascheck shank. I took the lube groove off of the Lee F&M drawing. How big should it be if it might find it's way into my 35Whelen? I'll cast some Bator 230's then cut the nose back on the lathe and try some in the Rossi lever gun for feeding purposes. | |||
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I wouldn't buy it for use in a pistol. I intend to use it in several rifles if the lube groove get to adequate size. At 2200 fps, it will need more lube. I have several in this weight range that I use in pistols that don't need a gas check and don't lead. A six cavity would be nice. | |||
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When we were doing the BatorBoolits, one of the things we found was that Lee wants all info on the drawing. So, if you want to use Hornady checks, you should indicate that on the drawing. Same thing for the material -- we specified using WW, so that's the shrinkage they allowed for when they cut the molds. Double-check this, but I think Lee uses .1" as a "standard" lube groove width. They also suggest avoiding square groove bottoms to avoid problems with boolit release from the mold. Similarly, they recommend a slight curve to the meplat for the same reason. Finally, a personal request -- when posting pics, please scale them down to a size that won't blow the margins on the browser. Say, 600 x 800 pixles. Large pics give me fits trying to read subsequent posts. <GGG> | |||
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I sure do agree about the picture size. Ed Barrett | |||
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Good looking bullet, but can we have MORE lube capacity. | |||
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You think it's really needed for a pistol bullet? Using the newer generation quality lubes... it should carry enough--IMO. Now if your using the cheap grayola type lubes... if more is better is a good question. How about the as cast dia.? .360 or two thou over a normal groove dia sounds better to me, but maybe the pistol shooters are locked to 359 for lubing? Inquiring minds wanna know.. | |||
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You can get .360" sizing dies. Standard diameter for .38 S&W. That's what I got for my .38 Special boolits. I don't like to size any more than I have to. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Cast Bullets .35 cal. 200 gr. mould project?
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