I know, not necessarily a hog question, but I assume everybody who hunts them is pretty likely in serious snake country.
I am looking at snake boots and have heard that Chippewa's boots are the standard by which most are judged. And I see that Chippewa makes the classic Brome as well as the Cutter model, which zips up the back. I find this feature of interest. Thanks to the four lower back fusions, I don't bend so good any more and putting on socks is a challenge. But I'd like to hear from someone who has worn the zip-up style as to whether you sacrifice comfort or fit for the convenience.
I see that Danner makes a San Angelo that looks a lot like the Chippewa boots, but at a lower price point -- and they are "imported."

Ive been hit ONCE wearing Chips... and it was closing the gate on the way into a lease... I was wearing them as kind of a joke for my out of state friends.. my 45 is fast, but rattlers are faster

I shot a rattler close to 6 feet long in TX while hog hunting.

His head was higher then the top of my snake boots. As he was coiled up rattling.

After that I though Chaps and boots might not be over kill.

Jeff, glad you had them on. Geez.
P dog, there is that risk of a hit above the knee with boots alone. They grow some big boys here, although I saw some big ones in my time in Otero County, New Mexico.

i wear the Chippewa's... they have a buckle on the ankle that you can tighten for more support... had them resoled a year or so ago... used the same some the redwing irish setter boots get... solid, very little heel... a little oil now and then to keep them soft...

Had two more votes for the Chippewas over on the Texas Hunting Forum -- including the Cutter version.

Don't get too comforted by snake boots. It is quite easy for a snake of any size to strike above the boot.

I have a friend who is 6'9". He had an average sized moccasin strike him while he was wearing snake boots. It hit him right at the top of the boot. A snake of any size could have easily struck above the boots.

I never wear them. However, I often wear rubber boots. I tend to think they would stop most bites on the boot.

Larry, I realize that caution and awareness are the first lines of defense. But I will take reasonable steps to improve the odds in my favor.

Some interesting statistics:
In the United States, 7,000 to 8,000 people are bitten by venomous snakes each year.
55 percent of people bitten by snakes are male, ages 17 to 27.
85 percent of bites are to the fingers and hands.
13 percent of snakebites occur on the feet and legs, rarely above the ankle.
57 percent of snakebite victims were handling the snake at the time of the bite.
28 percent of snakebite victims were intoxicated.
Denim clothing can reduce the amount of venom injected by a snakebite by 60 percent or more.
On average, five Americans die from snakebites each year.

https://www.outsideonline.com/...lk-about-snakebites/
Fromn this article:

I bought chaps to wear while hunting dove and quail in Venezuela. I wore them once. They were too heavy. They were too hot in hot weather. Your chance of having heat stroke wearing those things was much higher than being bitten by a rattler.

I think I am fairly attentive in the field, having hunted in New Mexico and Texas for 50 years, but there is always a chance you can be surprised.

My boot of choice for wet conditions are my Mucks. They are about 15" high. I think my dry condition boots are some insulated Cabela's, ankle highs. I don't worry to much about the "what if's" when I am in the field hunting. A snake could bite me on the ass while I'm sitting in a stand, or it could drop out of a tree when I am moving through brush. I will say this, if it doesn't bite me, it's going to pay with its life. If it does bite me, I am headed for the nearest medical assistance as quickly as I can without overtaxing my heart.

Kensco,I am assured the local hospital keeps CroFab in stock, and I should think they bulk up ahead of the Rattlesnake Roundup in early March.

i use zippered boots nice furry ones but they don't help with the snow snakes so always carry the proper medicine

I was raised in Texas and have hunted in Texas, OK, NM, LA, CO etc since 10 years of age without high boots and have never been bitten by a snake. Threatened and warned, but never stuck.
I have shot them a way from brothers, friends, buddies, self, and fellow hunters but so far, so good. I hope my luck holds.

Charles, I hope your luck holds, too, and Merry Christmas.
I have had some luck as well. I was struck by a rattler while flyfishing a creek at Philmont Scout Ranch in New Mexico, August of 1968. Our group, assembled from troops in the Mount Rainier Council (Seattle-Tacoma), was working on a 50-miler. We had gotten to the next stop on our 10-day hike. I was 15, and sick with trout fever. My weapon of choice in those days was a yellow fiberglass Wright-McGill pack rod and a Pflueger Medalist fly reel. I was probably fishing a bucktail Royal Coachman, which has been my go-to fly all my life. I immediately started catching and releasing trout in the 8- 9-inch range and having a ball. Standing on a boulder looking downstream at the next pool and seeing rises, I hopped down off the rock, heard a hiss, saw the strike as a blur and felt the thump against my left foot. There was a buzzer under that boulder and I probably startled it as much as it startled me. It was my luck that I had been in such a rush to get fishing that I did not stop to swap my heavy hiking boots for a pair of Converse tennies. The fangs did not penetrate my boot.

Bill: Right there in your new home town of Sweetwater you have more man-hours of experience with rattlesnakes than anywhere on earth. Most of the guys who walk around in the pits at the Roundup are just wearing plain old cowboy boots (Larry Mahan, Justin, etc.) They just swipe the snakes out of the way with their boots. Never saw anyone get bitten through or above a plain old cowboy boot.

Now, I'll admit that these guys are certified idiots who are not to be emulated. But as the snakebite statistics you quoted in your earlier post indicate, stumbling onto a snake which bites, or tries to bite, you somewhere above the ankle is a rare instance. Just about any comfortable hunting boot with full leather uppers is around 99% as effective as Kevlar waders, so take your pick. Wearing a boot that allows you to deftly change directions when you hear that buzz is probably more important than having iron overshoes on that may cause you to stumble and fall on said Diamantrücken-Klapperschlange.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Some interesting statistics:
In the United States, 7,000 to 8,000 people are bitten by venomous snakes each year.
55 percent of people bitten by snakes are male, ages 17 to 27.
85 percent of bites are to the fingers and hands.
13 percent of snakebites occur on the feet and legs, rarely above the ankle.
57 percent of snakebite victims were handling the snake at the time of the bite.
28 percent of snakebite victims were intoxicated.
Denim clothing can reduce the amount of venom injected by a snakebite by 60 percent or more.
On average, five Americans die from snakebites each year.

https://www.outsideonline.com/...lk-about-snakebites/
Fromn this article:

Most of this doesn’t surprise me. The part about below the ankle does surprise me given my own personal observation of many snakes over the years .

Larry, I'd like to run that by an ER doctor in a very snakey area and ask if it tallies with his or her experience.

i wear a pair of Orvis snake boots cloth (I think Cordura covered leather uppers) zip up the back of the legs. I too have had two spinal fusions and the zippers are a Godsend. I also wear chaps made of convertible top material, or batwing rough out chaps. King Ranch Saddle shop used to sell the convertible chaps don't know if they still do. Almost any shoe repairman in South Texas can build the chaps. The leather chaps are very heavy. The convertible material chaps not as heavy but are warm. The chaps are really needed more for walking through South Texas brush more than snakes. I have hunted South Texas for over 50 years and have had several encounters with "Joe No Shoulders" never been on hunt when anyone was bit. I have had strikes (I think never saw the snakes) felt like someone slapping my leg with a 1X2. I don't think there is anything faster than a 230 pound quail hunter that has a close encounter. There is something about the buzz of a rattler that always sounds like you are right on top of it. The effectiveness of a rattle snake's camouflage is amazing, very difficult to see if the snake is not moving.
I have been on hunts when dogs have been bit and, survived. There is a serum available for the them that helps if the dog has been inoculated.
A good percentage of bites are said to be dry bites after the snake has expended the venom on some other creature. Our latest cold snap should have knocked down some cover, hoping for some good shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Larry, I'd like to run that by an ER doctor in a very snakey area and ask if it tallies with his or her experience.

My wife is a hand surgeon. She tells the story of operating on a power company guy who got bit on the hand .

He came to the ER laughing . An hour later , he was not laughing . Severe swelling. Intense pain. Her description of the surgery is something I never want to experience.

We have a bunch of Pygmy rattlers at my ranch . We killed 13 in the yard one year . I can definitely see those biting at the ankle or lower . I have seen the bigger snakes strike many times. They always seem to strike higher .

Larry, one morning last fall a year ago, I and two other guys were opening up the office at the Otero County shooting range in La Luz, NM, when I happened to notice something out of place under the bench in front of the counter. Yup, small pile of Western diamondback. We fished him out with regular soft trash tongs and took him outside. Boy he was mad. I held the tongs in front of him and he struck again and again -- but because of his small size -- 20-22 inches -- he would have been an "ankle biter." Glad I didn't flop down on the bench with a cup of coffee though. I'd have probably been fine with my 8-inch Keen heavy work boots. But we had a lot of shooters in shorts and tennis shoes. Might have been a different story.

Bill:

I think the height of the bite is directly dependent on two things . The length of the snake and how far it is away from someone when it bites.

That stat may well be correct . It surprised me based on what I have seen .

I hope to never find out .

I think you are right, Larry.
This video gave me a different perspective, but I am guessing these rattlers are either about to mate or about to fight. Creepy to see them standing up like cobras, but it doesn't seem to be a favorable strike position.

https://www.whiskeyriff.com/20...akes-with-one-arrow/

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
I think you are right, Larry.
This video gave me a different perspective, but I am guessing these rattlers are either about to mate or about to fight. Creepy to see them standing up like cobras, but it doesn't seem to be a favorable strike position.

https://www.whiskeyriff.com/20...akes-with-one-arrow/

I have seen that countless times. That is one of the reasons I question the below the ankle stat.

I have come across many rattlers and cottonmouths over the years . I have seen them strike often. Usually provoked by one of my friends . If I had to guess, my observations were that most struck in the 12-15 inch high range .

I referenced a friend who got struck earlier . He was standing in the middle of a dirt road at night. A cottonmouth crawled out of bush and struck him. It was just below the top of the boot. My guess is 24 inches .

The at ankle stat may well be true . It is different than what I have seen.

Larry, I greatly respect your depth of experience, as you have BEEN THERE. I have been told that cottonmouths/moccasins got up on the wrong side of the bed as a species and tend to be crabby/mean. Have yet to see my first ... but soon.

Bill:

Cottonmouths are very territorial. They will defend their territory. The worst thing about them ,
at least to me, is when fishing and they drop out of a tree into the boat . It ain’t fun.

One can often smell them before one can see them. It is a pungent odor .

My ranch had a pile of them. A couple of 410 governors has thinned them considerably. I hate them but rattlers scare me more . That is totally irrational as the cottonmouths are often in stagnant water . The bacteria if they hit you can be bad. I guess one could call them double trouble. Venom and bacteria.

Hunting hogs at night with thermal imaging can be quite entertaining. Walking in the dark in snake country freaks a lot of people out.

Back in '63 I met a young farm gal, later married her. That had been bitten twice by our prairie rattlers. Most are 20"-3'long. Very few make 5' feet, but they sure can.

First time they as a family were 3/4 mile up a hill picking squash. A baby rattler was curled around one in the shade and bit her on the ring finger. Cuts on the fang holes were 1/4" apart. They messed around and finished picking. Casually drove to the house, all took a shower and drove to town 25 miles. By then her arm was getting very swollen. Hospital refused to treat her as they didn't have any insurance.

They drove 6 miles across town to the other one. That gave her a shot of horse serum she was allergic to. She was in there 9 days and had nearly died from it.

Just 9 months later instead of washing dishes as told she went to pick flowers and stepped over a row right on top of about as big a rattler as had ever been seen there. She was wearing those rubber flipflops. One fang hit her big toe, the other went into the rubber between the toes.

As a luck might have it sometimes. The vet was out there doctoring a cow with her Dad. When she screamed Bob told the vet: "one of the girls just got snake bit". They ran, Bob got her thrown in the back seat. Vet had his snake kit and they were 31 miles across town from the farm in just over 25 minutes is what I was told. Knowing the road then I'm mighty glad not to have been riding with them.

She was in the hospital overnight. When I met her she still had a bandaid on her toe.

We married the next year. She had nightmares most nights for several years. She woke me up beating the hell out of me many nights.

Bob was a snake hater, he had been bit on the calf as a teen. I was along several times when we spotted snakes. Slammed the brakes on and bailed out before the truck was stopped "get the shovel!"

Once us younger guys were in the back of the pickup. He took off after the snake crawling across the road. I had the shovel 15 feet behind him. Front half of the snake was in dense weeds, a foot or so of the tail was still in the open. He stomped on it! Took the shovel and raked it out between us. It coiled facing me. About that time he lopped its head off, cut the rattles off and gave them to me "for bringing the shovel so quick".

Like most of us that have been around these critters we could tell such stories for weeks on end.

I've been mighty lucky and never been bitten by some almost close enough to touch with my hands.
One night I stopped the car on one about 6" behind its head. Nothing in the car to kill it with. I got a 16" socket breaker bar and smacked it on the head. The tail flipped out from behind the tire and hit the back of my hand hard enough it left a swollen bruise. It took several minutes to figure out whether I had been bitten or not. That convinced me they do have control of their tails even with a car stopped on them.

Be mighty careful around snakes.

George

How high is the bottom of a 1972 Chevy BelAir door?

Back in the early 70s I was running to a rig south of Blackwell, Texas late one night. As I got back on the highway and was driving back home towards Abilene in the dark, I saw a rattler in my headlights, and thought I had driven over his head as I swerved at him. I then
stopped and slowly started rolling backwards with the door open. I was leaning way down with my head hanging out trying to catch a glimpse of him in my backup lights. I didn't see him until he struck the bottom of the door. Scared the shit out of me and I jumped back up in the seat, slammed the door and got the hell out of there.

Great story, Kensco. I just went out and measured and the bottom edge of the front door on my 4X2 2018 Dodge Ram is 17 inches -- the top of a typical snake boot.

My late wife used to be a textile broker and Rattler brand snake chaps were one of her products. They were very popular here in Georgia with bird, hog and early season squirrel hunters. On my first trip pheasant hunting they served as brush guards as I waded thru sunflower fields.

I knew an old timer that would put a 2' section of 6" stovepipe on each leg over his boots.

quote:

Originally posted by Norman Conquest:
I knew an old timer that would put a 2' section of 6" stovepipe on each leg over his boots.

They used to make a hard plastic device which basically worked the same way . Wrapped around each leg.

Bill I just bought some of these. I'll be wearing them out in the Aussie bush.

https://hunterselement.com.au/...ucts/venom-gaiter-v2

Tony, those look grand. They don't mention much about snake protection in the Youtube, but I assume they would provide at least some. You sure have your share of nasties in Australia.

Apparently tested against all the nasty buggers we have here. The clip in the link does show some bites. BUT Aussie snakes although pretty dangerous do have smallish fangs.

I note in the warning in that link it says;
"It is recommended that users avoid areas known to contain snake populations" so I suppose it is best to just avoid Australia altogether

... and here I am, living in the "rattlesnake capital of Texas."

Just down the road a few miles is the largest den in central Texas. Several years ago we were putting in the HVAC to a new home being built by 2 old retired school teacher ladies. Why they wanted to build there, I'll never know. The ground under your feet was hollow when you walked, + there was an opening going down that was large enough for a man to walk down, should anyone be so stupid. When we would get to the job in the morning, the slab would be covered with snakes, enjoying the coolness of the concrete. I was never so glad to be finished + gone from a job as that one.

I cowboyed in far west Texas and central Texas. wore 12 or 13 inch tops, usually with spurs and chaps if horseback daily. walked a million miles, hunted a lot, killed a lot of rattle snakes,steped on a couple, never got bit, never was I concerned..HOrses and dogs got bit often enough, they got bit on the nose or head as the part was in the grass more than mine!

We broke all our dogs to stay away from snakes. We would sew the rattlers mouth shut & stake it out & put shock collars on the dogs when they smelled the snake & went for ir we used the collar. I didnt take but 2 or 3 treatments & they would steer away from snakes.

Whoa! Who was the lucky one that did the sewing?