Juan, or someone, would you please explain about this shield different one's have mentioned that protect hogs.

Pictures would be a more perfect explaination to someone like me.

Won't a decent bullet penetrate it easy enough?

Appreciate the info,

George

George
The "shield" starts just behind the neck and extends back a little past the shoulder area.

I have actually shot pigs where this "shield" was so thick and tough that it could not be "bent".

When skinning Hogs with such a shield it is like they have a piece of 3/4" plywood under the hide.
It is white, very firm, very tough, and up to 3/4" thick.

On bigger boars (275++ lbs) I've seen sheilds up to 1.5" thick and have seen them extend almost back to the hams.

Good bullets will penetrate it just fine, but not many bullets will exit it, especially at raking angles.

It can really be hard on a lightly constructed bullet and definitely limit pentration.

I always shake my head when someone is bent to get a trophy boar and has no problem spending $50K on their hunt truck, $2,000 on their rifle, $1,000 on their scope and another $300 on their camo, but won't pay more than $0.20 for their bullet. Oh well.

Best of luck,
Kyler

IIRC a while back one of the members posted a photo showing a 2" thick shield !! Use heavily constructed bullets !

quote:

it is like they have a piece of 3/4" plywood under the hide

That is exactly how I described it to friends after seeing for myself what they were like. Imagine a very solid layer of cartledge or something like that is what it will remind you of.

i believe it's "grisle", and VERY tough.. it is there to protect boars while fighting. bigger, meaner the critter, the tougher the shield (plate, whatever) is..

it's tough... like boiled leather tough, and on a big hog, it WILL turn your blade.

jeffe

This boar was shot with 375H&H 300 grain woodleigh,the bullet didn't exit.
Photo shows just how thick the shield can be.


Bullet where it was found.

I have seen .243 cartridges fail to penetrate this shield. It is cartlidge mother nature put there to protecte against tusks of competing hogs.

I shot a boar in the shoulder with a .50 Cal muzzleloader with a lead conical bullet. It flattened on the shield and didn't penetrate it. It turned 180 and started to run when my hunting partner killed it with his 45-70.
I killed a sow later with the same gun/load and it smashed both shoulders.

All of my experience is with pigs that weigh 300-325lbs or less. I once would have said 400lbs until we began to weigh all hogs before gutted and skinned. The largest that was weighed, weighed 300lbs, it was about the size of the one we estimated to be 400. That said, I have never had a pigs shield stop a decent bullet going in and breaking a leg bone and ribs. Some don't exit, but I try not to take out both shoulders. A pig's heart/lung area is much farther forward than a deer's. If you get a decent bullet in there the pig is going down within a few yards. They are not that cardovascularly(sp)or mentaly tough, in my experience, unless chased and already pumped up before the shot. What's a decent bullet/cartridge? I like the 7x57 or 7-08 shooting a 150 or a 308 or 30-06 using Partitions or Interlocks at standard speeds. I might choose a heavier bullet if using standard cup and core, but haven't tried them. Although I like poly-tips in those guns for deer, the're not for pigs. Magnums are not needed and if used one should choose a bullet that isn't soft. FWIW, pigs seldom bleed very much from bullet holes, it's usually from the mouth, so I'd never depend on a blood trail. capt david

I shouldn't have read this thread. I will have to tell my Grandson that the 2 hogs that he killed with his 30BR aren't dead. He uses 125 grn. ballistic tips. One was hit in the shoulder and almost exited the other shoulder. We didn't find much of the bullet, just the wound channel He blew the whole head off the other from the middle of the eyes forward. Neither got out from under the feeder. I guess our Brazos River hogs don't have gristle. I personally don't like ballistic tips, but haven't found a good light bullet for the 15 twist barrel.
Butch

Yes, I have seen .243 fail to penetrate this shield. Bug don't get me wrong. I don't belieive you need big bores or magnums to hunt hogs. In my opnion, anythting greater than .308 or 30-06 is overkill. My main point was that the cartridge can be tough to penetrate and that I should have elaborated to say that behind the ear shots should be taken whenever possible. Most of the time if you wait an extra few seconds a nice head shot will present an opportunity. Head shots, preferably behind the ear, are the way to go -because of the cartledge that is so superbly illustrated by the photos posted here.

That's why I shoot 'em in the ear. Works every time--Bang! Flop! Dead Right There.

Hey, great replies from everyone. Sure appreciate it, especially the pictures and details.

This brings more questions.
Does this shield cover the ribs down low too?
OR ???

Could anyone show one laid out, or skinned out to show how big it is and what all area is covered with it?

Sure looks tough, much like I figured from reading previous posts about it.

I've got guns and use heavier bullets from .243, 30/30, '06, 7mmag, 300Winnie, 375H&H, plus a .45 Colt.

Had mostly wondered how much of the shooting would be up close and fast jump shots like wt's. OR whether they'd be at 100-300yds aimed shots.

When I do go, IF this snow melts by summer that is, hehe!!

Intend to take several rifles along then I'll have a choice after talking to the guys I'll be hunting with. I always wear the big iron when out in the boonies. Never know when trouble makers might happen along. Ran into four of them on ATV's from Wisc in '95, after a bit of arguing two of them tried to circle me. I was alone. but, when my coat tail was lifted up and they saw I meant business it was handled. Didn't even have to pull it out either. The size of it changed their minds. Would hope that would settle the matter on hogs too. but, doubt they'd know, huh?

Impressive thickness on that thing for sure. Looks like material about like the shoulder blade edge only a whole lot thicker, right?

Ok, when shooting from the side. Would you recommend lungs or heart?? OR thru the shoulders?

What's the bacon like? Worth not putting a bullet thru it? OR is that over the guts anyway?

What about farmyard porkers, they have a shield too? Assume they're all built about the same since most of these wild one's are just escaped farm hogs to start with. maybe many generations out, but, the same, right?

Except the Russian breeds, that I can see the difference between them.

Thanks again, helps to educate a long time hunter looking at new games.

George

My experience in shooting hogs is very limited. But I'll share my observations.

I thought that a 180 grain .30-06 would be plenty. So I left my 338 at home and took a new (to me) rifle in .30-06.

The hog I shot was a 175 pound sow, a crossbreed of a russian and a domestic hog. It had the long snout and long hair down the spine of a razorback. I shot it broadside, between the eye and ear. It went down on the spot, but the bullet did not exit.

A couple of hours later my son shot a 198 pound boar with the same rifle and ammo. His first shot hit it high on the left shoulder, penetrating the shield and knocking a 3/4 inch hole thru the bony part of the spine. It went down, but got up and ran, apparently unhurt. We chased it and he was finally able to put another one in it's head, near the eye.

None of the three bullets exited.

While skinning the boar I noticed that the shield was not part of the ribs, but part of the hide. On my son's boar it was about 1 1/2 inches thick. I estimate that the 180 grain soft point from a .30-06 penetrated 6 to 8 inches total. I was expecting complete penetration.

Next time I'll use my 338 or 45/70, possibly a 44 mag with heavy cast bullets.

I guess that I'm confused. One of my guys shot 2 on our property last weekend, about 150LBS ea. Both were neck shot with factory 30-06 150 grn. Remington ammo. Neither hog moved, they just died. I have just not had trouble killing them. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be smart or saying we are good shoots. We just have not had trouble killing hogs. We plan on going out again this weekend.
Butch

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
I guess that I'm confused. One of my guys shot 2 on our property last weekend, about 150LBS ea. Both were neck shot with factory 30-06 150 grn. Remington ammo. Neither hog moved, they just died. I have just not had trouble killing them. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be smart or saying we are good shoots. We just have not had trouble killing hogs. We plan on going out again this weekend.
Butch

Good luck this weekend.

I think where people have trouble is either using a bullet that is too soft on an old boar and not getting the penetration they need on a shoulder shot or if they need to track and the smaller-diameter bullets leave a small hole that can close up.

I imagine more hogs in Texas are killed by sub-30 caliber rifles than anything else. Of course many are lost too. A good CNS hit will take them down fast, while a heart-lung shot can let them go a ways. That is where a big exit is a plus.

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
I guess that I'm confused. One of my guys shot 2 on our property last weekend, about 150LBS ea. Both were neck shot with factory 30-06 150 grn. Remington ammo. Neither hog moved, they just died. I have just not had trouble killing them. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be smart or saying we are good shoots. We just have not had trouble killing hogs. We plan on going out again this weekend.
Butch

I'm pretty sure our problem was the bullet. The ammo used was Federal blue box 180 grain soft points, I think it was $10 a box. We did find peices of one bullet, the biggest peice found was of copper jacket metal, about 1/4 x 1/4 inch. I'm sure that a Nosler partition or other quality bullet would have done better.

Guys, many of you have heard me say it before, but hogs aren't hard to kill in my experience. I've shot maybe 65 in the last 4 years and not one of them moved other than to drop and "pedal" their legs. Granted, I use neck/head shots exclusively to avoid ruining meat.

In skinning a large (over 150lbs) boar. when you get to the mid-ribs (assuming they are hung head down), you'll find that the skin, instead of just drooping down to the ground limply, gets stiff and will begin to stick out laterally, maybe 90 degrees to the backbone. That makes for some hard skinning. To get around that, we slice the skin into strips about 6" wide, from tail to head and skin each strip. Those strips will hang down, even when you get to the gristly shield.

One of the guys on our lease is a veterinarian, and he says the "shield" is just a thick layer of tough connective tissue (gristle). Why do they have it? Most likely an adaptation to protect the boars when they fight.

More great info. Glad I asked this one.

Ok, when skinning one, can this shield be skinned off the body and hide both so it's by itself??

I'd sure like to see one laid out, or to know just how much of the side is covered by this.

IF/when I get a chance to kill one I'll try to do just that.

Woke up this morning dreaming about going hog huntin, hell of a deal huh? Us single guys are supposed to be dreaming of women ain't we?? haha!

Anyway, believe I'll try to find an old chest freezer small enough to fit in my p/up bed yet big enough to hold several hogs quartered out. Then I could run it on a generator and not worry about losing the meat. Has anyone done this before?? I've seen these freezers on trailers during hunting season but, it never dawned on me what was going on. Now I believe others have been doing this for a long time. Surely they don't draw much current to run 'em.

Stopped at a used appliance store today but, they didn't have any.
Come on guys, anyone have suggestions??

Thanks again,

George

George -- nothing wrong or unusual about dreaming of hunting hogs in the group!!

Where will you be going hunting? Where I used to hunt regularly in Florida, they had a walk in freezer to store the meat until you were done hunting. Other than that, we put the meat on ice in big ice chests. You can try dry ice as well as it will keep for a relatively long time.

georgeld--I have never tried to skin the shield off by itself, but you surely could. You'd have to take the hide off first. I think you probably could go back with a knive--pocketknife probably and probe the chest area to determine the extent of the shield. If I was to guess, I'd say it might cover the forward 2/3rds of the chest. It is certainly thinnest in the rear, and thickest at the shoulders.

I shot a big boar right before dark Monday evening. (Sorry, no pictures; it was dark by the time I got to him, and I was by myself. Car headlights don't make for the best pics...)

At any rate, I neck shot him with a handloaded Speer Grand Slam out of a .270, at a distance of ~120 yards. He was quartering away to the left just slightly, but I couldn't tell that at the time due to the darkness. The bullet entered his neck, pulverized the spine/neck bone, and exited above his left eye, blowing brain matter out on the ground. A "premium" bullet, and so help me, the pig never even kicked. A nice, humane kill, the way I like to do it.

This guy probably wasn't quite 300, but he was by far the biggest pig I have ever shot. Pretty odd as well, his cutters were only about an inch long. It was all I could do to even move him, so I dragged him about 30 yards and started whittling... Most of the skinning I did with a 3-1/2" pocket knife I carry with me all the time. It was sharp to start with, and stayed that way because of a ceramic that stays in my fanny pack. But I did use a Schrade LB7 to cut the carcass apart.

To be as big as he was, surprisingly enough, the shield was only about 3/8" thick, and the pocket knife cut through it reasonably easily. I had to skin him on the ground, so I ran the knife down the spine and started skinning one side. Once I got to the shoulder area, I took the shield off by peeling/cutting it back, and finally got him peeled out.

Probably the best surprise about this whole episode was that this guy, for as big as he was, did not smell at all. I kept expecting to smell him while walking up to him after the shot, but ne never did. And he didn't during the cleaning process. This boar was all pig, and had all the plumbing. Those of you that have been on here for a while have seen me say that I wouldn't shoot any more boars, there was just too much gamble in the quality of the meat. Well, allow me to retract that. I fried part of the backstrap for my son and myself Wednesday afternoon, and he said "Dad, it tastes like pork chops". The steaks were cut ~1/2" thick so they were a bit chewy, but not tough, just dense meat.

Why he didn't smell like a boar is beyond me. I guess I just got lucky. Maybe killing him clean is part of why he didn't smell, but I don't think so, because I have done that on other occasions and they were so strong it was tough to be around them.

Okay, enough of my rambling. All this to say that a good bullet out of a medium caliber will take out a big pig if you hit them right, as has been said before. Screw up and not hit vitals, and you will be tracking, even with a 505 Gibbs. They are tough if not hit vitally.

Secondly, get some help if you are going to shoot big hogs. 200# plus of dead weight is tough to move if you are by yourself.

Make sure the knives are sharp, and stay off the bones so they stay sharp.

Carry a big chest and a lot of ice.

Last of all, have fun... Feral pigs are a pest, but a very worthy animal to pursue, and are wonderful table fare. Come to TX and help us get rid of some... we are overrun with pigs!

I guide part time at a game ranch and have skinned my share of boars. The hogs we get generally come from breeders in WI or Saskatchwan. Their strain is more European or Russian than a feral. That being said, the sheild is generally thicker than a stronger feral blooded hog.

Im not picking on anyones porker, but feral hogs GENERALLY have a much lighter sheild. Even the big 300lb texas hogs(no offense Texans, I got married there) can have little shield. Conversely Ive seen 185lb "Russian" boars with shields an inch thick.

Because any pig will breed with any pig you can get tremendous variations in color, hair, snout length, shield, body size and ear size.

When you skin them, as mentioned, do it hanging them snout down. Take the hide off in one piece and cut close to the meat, don't try to split the sheild. Skinning them while they are still warm really helps as the sheild will harden up once they get cold.

If youre going to get it mounted let your taxidermist fuss with the shield(that's what I get paid to do).

What I do to get rid of the sheild is turn the hide inside out then use a scapel to cut off as much of the shield as I can. Then I take it to my fleshing wheel to get it down to the skin.

Good luck on your hunt!

quote:

Originally posted by georgeld:

Anyway, believe I'll try to find an old chest freezer small enough to fit in my p/up bed yet big enough to hold several hogs quartered out. Then I could run it on a generator and not worry about losing the meat. Has anyone done this before?? I've seen these freezers on trailers during hunting season but, it never dawned on me what was going on. Now I believe others have been doing this for a long time. Surely they don't draw much current to run 'em.

The wimmenfolk in my family have been having a big time talking about my "Redneck Freezer".

When my youngest boy called from Colorado in October and told me that he had killed an elk, on of my first thoughts was "we don't have room in the freezer".

I knew I'd be making a quick trip to Colorado to retrive the elk meat, and my plan was to buy a big cooler or two for the trip. When I saw what big coolers cost I headed to Lowes to look at Freezers. For $219 I got a 9.9 cu/ft chest freezer. I drive a Toyota Tacoma and it fit between the wheelwells perfectly.

I had brought an extension cord, planning to plug it in when I stopped for the night. But I didn't need to and everything in the freezer stayed frozen solid.

When I went hog hunting I used one of those big Rubbermaid truck boxes, black with a gray lid and red latches. We got both our quartered hogs in there, along with about 10 bags of ice. By the time we got home everything in it was nearly frozen.

Doubless ... Cody's boar didn't stink either, not at all. Which was a pleasant surprise. I keep hearing about boars that stink to high heaven.

I did kill a big whitetail buck up in Kansas a few years back that stunk bad, real bad. But the meat was fine. I think the stink was from the glands on the back legs.

i KILLED BOARS WITH A LOT OF BULLETS IN THE SHIELD I EVEN FOUND AN OLD 9MMFMJ IN ONE I KILLED IN LA PATAGONIA.JUAN

More great info, thanks guys. Enjoy reading every bit of this.

I'm one that hit on Crushers deal, haven't heard from him in ten days or more so it might have overwhelmed him.
That's about 800 miles from here and I was planning on killing a couple weeks while I'm on such a trip, pulling my camp trailer to save costs.
Being gone that long and going on a diy deal. His offer of four days is wonderful, but, it's not long enough for me to make that much trip. I'd knock on a few doors along the way and see if I couldn't hunt more places. That's why I was thinking of having my own freezer along. My trk's got a shell on it too. Would need to put skids under it and take the lid off to get in it. But, that's nothing I can't handle.

IF there's that many hogs to kill down there I might have a load before heading back. IF This blasted cold and snow don't let up I might not make it til June anyway. Trucks still apart yet and can't work on it in this stuff. Guess I could IF it was that important, but, it's not. They cancelled my elk hunt for the 8th so no hurry now.

Any of you have a place, or access and could set me up on some extra hogs without much expense. It sure would be nice and appreciated. Send me an e'mail to keep the masses down if you prefer. I think that might be what happened on the other deal. So many of us jumped at it. georgeld@hotmail.com

I've got whatever guns it takes for any area and can load up other ammo before heading down IF it's needed.

Running wild like these hogs are. I'm assuming that alone, plus the range feed will make the meat a lot different than pen raised pork, right?

Thanks to everyone,

George

George, I've had some big hogs whose meat was gamey, but on the smaller hogs, the meat is quite good. Wild hog meat tends to be a lot leaner and sometimes tougher, but it has great flavor.

I usually try for shots from front of shoulder forward. Mostly because I want all the meat I can get for sausage, etc. The shield can be very thick and tough, IMO, and will slow a bullet down. There is a meat processing place right on the Red River in Clay county and he has a hat-full of spent of bullets he has sliced away from the shield on numerous hogs. It will completely shock you to see what he had taken out of hog shields. FMJ's, round balls, SP's, buckshot, pistol rounds, you name it. I didnt believe it myself the first time I saw it.

Eterry

That must be tough to stop heavy bullets.

I'll bet a lot of those he's cut our have been shot from a distance, and/or light powered guns.

But, I've never seen such a thing yet, so may have some education coming.

Some pictures I've seen show kind of a higher flat area over the shoulders on the sides. I'll bet that's the impression of the shield now that you guys have all been explaining things to me.

I'll cut one out when I get a chance. But, am several hundred miles from where they are. And lot's of snow yet too.

Thanks much to everyone.

George

Just imagine a white nylon cutting board, curved and cut to fit the shape of a boars ribs.

It's probably about as tough too.

That stuff is only tough trying to bend, or cut on it. SHouldn't be hard to shoot thru it.

From the posts on here a hogs shield has got to be one of toughest things on earth.

Cody sent me a note today Jim, I replied.
IF he's got the weekends off and can, believe I can get him to shooting. May need to provide the guns and ammo, but, that's workable too. We'll see what he can do. Much of it depends on wheels.

Take care,

George

You may already know this, but a cadet can't have a car the first 2 years at the Academy. He will be able to have one sometime in May, he's already counting down the days <G>.

He has a pretty good battery up there, I doubt he'll need to borrow anything.

Thanks!

Jim:

I don't know much about them, or him yet. Car's I wondered about. Don't know when he started, believe he's in for four yrs, right?

Am surprised they can have guns at all. That's good. IF he can't, I've got reloading stuff here he can use, and many dies, but, not everything.

G

I want to shoot hogs now too.

Besides river bottom there is lots of wheat/grain fields along the river so some shots are from long range. Some would have been on off side, though how they survive carrying a large caliber bullet I dont know. Oh yeah, he has a couple broadheads also cut out of hogs.

They are not armor-plated by no means, I have shot them with 22lr (at 6 feet), 22mag, 357 carbine, steel BB 12 gauge, 7.62x39, 30-06, 30-30 and 50 cal ML and only lost a couple. Mostly the losses were on running shots. But I try to hit them in front of the shoulder.
ETerry