I like these old boar hunting paintings/tapestries...back then they lined up in formation....

Do you think they took a little artistic license with the size of the tusks?

I like the looks of that catch dog.

Interesting to see the way the cross-piece is placed on the spear. We had a discussion on the Spear Hunting Board about medieval boar spears and the absence of cross pieces on the spear heads themselves.

quote:

Originally posted by Charles_Helm:
Do you think they took a little artistic license with the size of the tusks?

I like the looks of that catch dog.

Interesting to see the way the cross-piece is placed on the spear. We had a discussion on the Spear Hunting Board about medieval boar spears and the absence of cross pieces on the spear heads themselves.

Those were the english "Sabre-toothed" boars of old..

Right, I noticed that about the spears, too. They strapped a wooden crosspiece about 18"-24" behind the tip. Deep plunges(?).

The catch dogs look like mastiffs to me...

Looks to me like coursing dogs and catch dogs. One set sight hounds and one set mastiff-type crosses, perhaps. Most of my dog breed/history books are at the office but that is my best guess.

quote:

Originally posted by Charles_Helm:
Do you think they took a little artistic license with the size of the tusks?

No more than most of the posters here.


Okie John

quote:

Originally posted by okie john:

quote:

Originally posted by Charles_Helm:
Do you think they took a little artistic license with the size of the tusks?

No more than most of the posters here.


Okie John

No doubt that painting/tapestry is not totally accurate, I could tell that right away as soon as I saw It. After all any hunter who had speared a boar with tusks that big [ the bottom hunter] would have a BIG smile on his face, I know I would.

Not as big as the pic but good sized nonetheless. Thought you guys would like it be mindful its pics of a pic so its not all that great.

Very nice tusks!

Thanks for the pictures.

Ultramag -

Was that a barrow hog? Those are the only hogs we catch with teeth that big. All the big boars we catch have teeth that are broken off or have been broken off recently so they won't get really big. Actually, those pictures are really impressive. I don't think I've ever killed anything with teeth that big - especially two that are that symmetrical I've killed some with teeth that were longer than those but the combination of length and thickness is really impressive...at least that's how it looks in the pictures. Did any dogs get cut on that hog?

We killed a pretty good one last night with about 3" teeth and he cut one of our top female dogs with a about a 6" gash around her neck. She's very lucky that it was only skin. I'll post some pictures if any turned out. The guy with the camera's not known for taking good pictures.

Ultramag will have the real scoop, but my understanding is that whether due to genetics (Polynesian strain?), minerals, or the soil you can find longer tusks on the Hawaiian boars than we typically see here.

Glad your dog is going to be fine -- did you have to put some staples or stitches in?

Interesting. Seems like the case for the new zealand / australian boars as well. They always seem to be sporting some pretty decent hardware as well. I wonder if they are related.

We usually just staple them up because it's so much easier and faster. We used to spend hours sewing up dogs, in the wee hours of the night, with dwindling flashlights and aching backs before we started using staple guns. I even worked for a veterinarian one year while I was growing up to better learn how to sew up a dog.

Man, those are definately some bad boy daggers!

...makes me want to take up scrimshaw...

I gotta do some pig hunting in Hawaii.

Nice photos, UltraMag

I agree that the painter knew not only little about the hunt, but less about the boars themselves...

Anyone else notice that the tusks for those pigs protrude from the backs of their mouths, as if they were extremely long molars???

quote:

Originally posted by new_guy:
I agree that the painter knew not only little about the hunt, but less about the boars themselves...

Anyone else notice that the tusks for those pigs protrude from the backs of their mouths, as if they were extremely long molars???

Yes -- it gives them a real unusual look. It's almost like they are shown with small canines and big tusks at the back -- makes you wonder if he got the dogs right. I personally think they are more dangerous with the tusks up front, but the artist apparently disagreed.

quote:

Originally posted by Charles_Helm:

quote:

Originally posted by new_guy:


Anyone else notice that the tusks for those pigs protrude from the backs of their mouths, as if they were extremely long molars???

Yes -- it gives them a real unusual look. It's almost like they are shown with small canines and big tusks at the back ...

I thought that was interesting, too. Apparently though, not only one artist saw it that way as this picture shows:

CANE CORSO GREAT TOPIC,WE ALL CAN SEE THAT THE GREAT SUS SCROFA ,THE HUNTER AND HIS BEST FRIEND THE DOG WAS AND IS ONE OF THE GREATEST FORMS OF HUNTING,EVEN ALEXANDER THE GREAT USES MOLOSOS DOGS AND SPEARS TO HUNT THEM ,I BELIEVE HUNTING WITH YOUR ONEN TRAINED DOG AND A KNIFE IS ONE OF THE MOST PUREST FORMS OF HUNTING.ULTRAMAG WONDERFUL BOAR I KILLED ONE OF 27 CMS IN THE PATAGONIA HOPEFULLY WITH MY CZ 308 BECAUSE I BELIEVE IT WOULD KILLED MY DOGOS.JUAN

quote:

Originally posted by juanpozzi:
I KILLED ONE OF 27 CMS IN THE PATAGONIA ...

So if Juan has killed one with 27cm (10.6 inches) recently ...maybe the length of the tusks in the first picture of old England aren't *too* much of an exageration...

Surely he means 10.6 inches combined with both tusks

Aloha Ultramag,
Nice set of teeth! I see from the photodate that you just bagged this one.

Yes guys, the Polynesian genetics has a lot to do with tusk length. On the Island of Niihau, domestic stock was never introduced. Supposedly, the porkers are of "pure" Polynesian stock introduced to the Islands when the indigenous people first came here about 1,100 years ago.

The Polynesian variety is smaller framed with long snouts and big ears that stand straight up.
Thus, the long jaw and slimmer long tusks. An old SCI record book (1984) shows #1,3, & 4 coming from Niihau. The heaviest pig to walk the island would have to be less than 300 lbs and be a garden raider. The average full grown boar is only about 125 lbs.

Geoff

RS- No this was not a barrow and I agree with you I really like those boars with nice thick tusk and the length is an added bonus. Sorry to hear about your dog but glad its only skin so not too bad and yes I hear you about the sewing and sore backs I have never sewn a dog but have helped alot and I agree the staplers are way easier and quicker. BTW my boyfriend has caught boars with more than 10.5" tusk per side sticking out from the gumline so I believe Juan could have done this although only he can verify.

Charles- Yes I do believe genetics has alot to do with as there are areas even on this island where you have big bodied boars but youre lucky to get one with 2" tusk alot of domestic crosses and other areas are known for there tusk not much domestic influence where its almost guaranteed if you catch a boar he'll have some decent tusk avg 3" or better.

Juan- Thats a very nice boar indeed. Do you have pics of him. I actually boars with longer tusk as they dont cut up the dogs just gotta watch out for the poundings the dogs take if its a big boar and the dogs fight them in the river lost many dogs this way.

Geoff- Hows it going good to hear from you good to see you at the gun show are you going to the range for the Hunting/Fishing day event. God willing I'll make it to Niihau with you. Actually the pics are taken off a photo this was actually caught late last year by a close friend.



ALOHA!!!

I believe this is a detail from a Roman sarcophagus (notice the dog to the left)...a more realistic depiction of a boar:





Here is a "zoomed out" view:

The question I have for you -- particularly Ultramag is how much sand is there where the hogs are? I ask because in Florida where I used to hunt quite a bit, there is so much sand that the hogs teeth never grow to full potential -- they grind them down.

Aloha Whitworth- There is sandy areas here but I believe the Island of Niihau where Geoff hunts is mostly sandy I think as I have not hunted there YET . Here rocky soil is more prevalent if you look at it as a whole.

I will ask my brother who lives in Florida now and see if he notices any difference and what they are. I have seen a video from Florida that had some very long tusked boars and the area did look a bit sandy. I will watch my hog videos from Florida and look closely at this.

Aloha and Happy Huntin'!!!

Aloha and Semper Fi Ultramag!

Not saying that you can't find boar in FLA with long tusks, you can, but I have never seen a hog out there with that much tusk! I shot one a few years ago that had 3-inch tusks. I need to head out to the islands!

Cane Corso

Thanks for posting the historical boar photos.

If you have more, keep posting.

These are from a fourth century (AD) Roman villa mosaic with dogs and boar:





This shows the captured boar (looked a lot bigger when they were fighting it) ... :

quote:

Originally posted by CaneCorso:

This shows the captured boar (looked a lot bigger when they were fighting it) ... :

They always do!

Very interesting mosaics.

It is interesting in historical accounts to read how many kings or nobles were actually killed while hunting boar. Perhaps from major wounds or even a gash or wound without antibiotic treatment also perhaps not healing well without infection compared to today.

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:

It is interesting in historical accounts to read how many kings or nobles were actually killed while hunting boar. Perhaps from major wounds or even a gash or wound without antibiotic treatment also perhaps not healing well without infection compared to today.

Yes, with the exception of lion hunting, boar hunting seems to be the most richly celebrated from the earliest historical hunting accounts.

Hunting must have been much more dangerous then because of the risk of infection from even a modest slash or bite.

Cane- I agree with you in that it mustve been more deadly to get a cut back then due to infection. I know a efw people whos been cut including my boyfriend and they had him on some serious antibiotics he was a walking pharmacy

Keep the pics coming!

Aloha!!!

More Roman mosaics from around the fourth century (CE):




Speaking of lions and boars, here is a mosaic of both in battle (I like the way it appears that they are levitating above the ground to portray action:

Very intresting. Where did you see them? I am
going back to the UK in NOV. and looks like I missed somethimg on my others. I love to study the old Tapestries and Works of art.
Gene

The mosiacs are intact on villas in Italy. I am not sure where the tapestries are located.

CaneCorso -- post more if you can, please. This is great stuff!

Prehistoric rock shelter painting, Central India shows men running away from an angry boar...boars were REALLY big back then in India!




Here are a couple from Greek pottery:


Ware: Attic Black Figure
Shape: Amphora, Neck
Painter: Attributed to the Manner of Lysippides Painter or Attributed to the Mastos Group
Date: ca 510 BC



Summary: Hercules brings the boar to Eurystheus who is hiding in a pithos
Ware: Attic Black Figure
Shape: Amphora, neck
Date: ca 540 - 520 BC



I think the next thread will be a "Lion hunting through the ages..." if there is interest?

Some images from Pompeii.

A fresco.


A bronze fountain.


A floor mosaic from the Casa del Cinghiale (House of the Wild Boar)


A roman coin

quote:

Originally posted by 375 AI:
Some images from Pompeii.

A fresco.


A bronze fountain.


A floor mosaic from the Casa del Cinghiale (House of the Wild Boar)


A roman coin

These things are really nice ... its quite touching to see how ours ancestors dealed with their preys ... hunting feeling is much about that: ceremonies, traditions, respect, honor, pride ...

Afrikaner ,where did you find this spectacular ,photos,very nice ,i read that Alexander the great hunted a lot using spear and his great dogos the most famous was peritas.juan

quote:

Originally posted by juanpozzi:
Afrikaner ,where did you find this spectacular ,photos,very nice ,i read that Alexander the great hunted a lot using spear and his great dogos the most famous was peritas.juan

Hey Juan !!!

Those photes were posted by 375 AI, not by me ... I also expressed my satsifaction to that seeing - but quoting all his post (including of course his photos)

See you soon, my friend !

The pic with the lions reminds me.. while there's no eurpean lions TODAY there certainly where 1000 years ago.. along with osrocs, but that's a different story.

part of tusk length is genetics, part diet, and part what they got to root in... loose soil pigss (swamp bottom, non-sandy) are going to be longer, but perhaps not thicker than rocky bottom.. hawaian pigs? I gots no clue why, but would love to take a couple

jeffe