In KB's OWN words:

quote:

Overkill can be defined as including moreblast and recoiland bloodshot meat than a merely adequate cartridge will produce.

And then he asks ME if I think. Yes KB I do think and I still think your full of shit with limited experience!

I have made good shots on hogs and I have made piss poor shots on hogs. Over the years I have seen good shots made by folks I was hunting with or guiding, I have also seen plenty of piss poor shots made.

Find a rifle/cartridge combination YOU like and go with it and have a great time.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:


Find a rifle/cartridge combination YOU like and go with it and have a great time.

Then take your best shot!!!!



I'll drink to that!!!


HNY all ya'll.

JAPMF,

GWB

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
In KB's OWN words:

quote:

Overkill can be defined as including moreblast and recoiland bloodshot meat than a merely adequate cartridge will produce.

And then he asks ME if I think. Yes KB I do think and I still think your full of shit with limited experience!

I have made good shots on hogs and I have made piss poor shots on hogs. Over the years I have seen good shots made by folks I was hunting with or guiding, I have also seen plenty of piss poor shots made.

Find a rifle/cartridge combination YOU like and go with it and have a great time.

Yet you harp on the word "overkill" and the only reason is to argue and make someone wrong.

If I used the word as a figure of speech regarding size of outboard on a skiff, or the size of tractor to run a certain size bush hog,(25hp vs 50hp) or using marine plywood when regular exterior plywood would do, would you harp then, or simply accept it as a figure of speech?

KB

Yea, and my point is that I bet that hog was dead on the ground real close to where it was standing when shot, and further point is that it wouldn't matter if it was 300 pound boar, the results, if not identical, would differ less than fifty feet. The placement looks like it didn't hit the spine, which is what I'm talking about because in that case of course the hog, no matter what size, will hit the ground right there. And of course we are talking about the 308 with a decent bullet, not necessarily premium.

I don't claim that the 308 is a magic wand, but I am saying that it has more than enough power to take the biggest hog down reasonably close to where it was standing when hit, even when no major bones are broken, assuming decent bullet and good placement.

I was thinking about it and realized that by far most of the hogs I've taken were with a 308, (maybe 15 or 18) and I've never lost one, never had to track one. The one hog I did lose was shot with a 7.62x39 CZ 527 a little far out, 125 yds, and I didn't compensate for bullet drop. Lesson learned, which prompted me to sell the cz and choose the Grendel.

One was a big Texas boar, shot broadside through the ribs, as it ran by me at about 30 yards. It continued on its path as fast as it could run, and it was running when hit, and it only went about fifty feet. I watched it skid on its chin to a stop, roll over and kick a little. Compared to the placement on GW's pig, the hit on the boar was a little lower and maybe 3 inches back.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Geedubya:
one more for the Original Poster..........




Steyr Mountain Rifle, 308 Winchester, 150 gr. Nosler Accubond.

A little far back, but it was at night, 100 Yds and they were whirlin' like dervishes. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

JAPMF,


GWB

There is no such thing as overkill, and if there was, the report of the rifle and ANY DAMNED RECOIL generated when it was shot, would not have anything to do with it in ANY way.

Telling others what you have experienced is ONE THING!

Telling people you really DO NOT know that they HAVE NOT experienced what they claim, is SOMETHING ELSE!

Well, give me a frigging break. If you used a a quad 50 or a Hellfire missile to kill a hog, or a sounder of hogs, you don't think that would be overkill?

Kb is right, you're just arguing to hear you figurative gums flap.

Would or would not the hogs be Dead?

Can you answer that simple question?

Or how about this one.

How much effect does muzzle blast have in making a kill?

Or how about recoil? I admit I have shot some rifles that were not all that pleasant, but have never seen that my getting kicked a little hard had anything to do with killing an animal.

Also, in your "example" are either of the pieces of equipment in regular use as a sport hunting implement?

Excessive meat destruction, Yes, I am quite sure they would produce that but, there is only one degree of DEAD, and when something is killed, it is rendered dead/lifeless/gone off line/finished.

Does not matter if it drops dead from a heart attack/rifle bullet/arrow or a thermo nuclear device, it is still dead.

Whether there is a useable carcass/mountable head remaining is immaterial, whatever it was is dead, not over dead or "Over Killed".

Thank you for your comments Gato have a wonderful New Year, Oh almost forgot, when it comes to Flapping Gums, why didn't you keep yours shut!

KB deserves what he gets.

quote:

Originally posted by KB deserves what he gets.

You should apologize to humanity for wasting cyberspace and sucking air.

No need to apologize to me. since I don't care what you say or think.

A guy can't participate in an otherwise civil discussion and exchange views and experiences without suffering your insults and presence.

Have you no shame?

KB

Bobby, GW, thank you both for taking such great photos and sharing them with us. I always enjoy seeing them.

For a person to participate in a civil discussion KB, the first concept is realizing that EVERYONE, has had their OWN experiences, there is NO One Size FITS ALL when it comes to hunting practices or experiences.

What should I be ashamed. Your the one that brought up recoil and muzzle blast contributing to the non-realistic concept of "Overkill".

Then when others relate their experiences hunting hogs, you basically tell them they are wrong or did not experience the incident as it happened, but the way YOU believe stuff happens.

When someone says that a pig ran after being shot, they are not saying that too impress you/me or anyone else, it is what happened.

If a person states that they like a certain caliber of rifle or rifles for hunting pigs or anything else, that is their choice, Not Yours.

I am not nor have not questioned your experiences, I have questioned your use of a term and your listing of muzzle blast and recoil as being contributing factors to that term.

I am glad that you are getting a chance at the hogs you have put a good bit of effort in trying to connect with. I applaud your efforts.

I simply do not agree with the use/over use of a term that is totally meaningless. There is One Degree of dead.

quote:

Originally posted by marshmandan:
Bobby, GW, thank you both for taking such great photos and sharing them with us. I always enjoy seeing them.

Most of the credit goes to the "whack master", Bobby Tomek.

His photos were/are a big part of inspiring me to acquire better equipment and get better at it.

I shoot much more with a camera these days than I do with a rifle. LOL





























JAPMF,


GWB

Geebub, shooting hogs with a Sako Bavarian carbine? Now that's classy!

Biebs,

I'm not in your league, but I do like the warmth of wood.............




Sako Riihimaki, vintage, circa 1955, 222 Rem.





Custom Mauser 98 Mannlicher, 35 Whelen





Sauer 200, 30-06





Cooper Model 22, Montana Varminter, 6.5 x 284





a two-fer with a Merkel k1 Jagd Stutzen, 7mm-08.





Merkel K1 half stock, 9.3 x 74R





Blaser R93, 243 Win.



and two more, with which I've not yet killed, but should correct that within the next couple months........




Steyr Mannlicher Classic, 270 Winchester





Luxus Model 11, 280 Remington


JAPMF,


GWB

You are a fine example of overkill - in the blah, blah, BS, take yourself too seriously category.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
For a person to participate in a civil discussion KB, the first concept is realizing that EVERYONE, has had their OWN experiences, there is NO One Size FITS ALL when it comes to hunting practices or experiences.

What should I be ashamed. Your the one that brought up recoil and muzzle blast contributing to the non-realistic concept of "Overkill".

Then when others relate their experiences hunting hogs, you basically tell them they are wrong or did not experience the incident as it happened, but the way YOU believe stuff happens.

When someone says that a pig ran after being shot, they are not saying that too impress you/me or anyone else, it is what happened.

If a person states that they like a certain caliber of rifle or rifles for hunting pigs or anything else, that is their choice, Not Yours.

I am not nor have not questioned your experiences, I have questioned your use of a term and your listing of muzzle blast and recoil as being contributing factors to that term.

I am glad that you are getting a chance at the hogs you have put a good bit of effort in trying to connect with. I applaud your efforts.

I simply do not agree with the use/over use of a term that is totally meaningless. There is One Degree of dead.

Damn GDW, just when I think I have too many rifles I look at your posts and realize I'm normal.

I do love your and Bobby 's posts. You guys are hog killing machines.

I am not a "Fine" example of anything.

I am a nobody, but I have been hunting long enough to have had a little experience killing stuff and seeing stuff killed, and have no problem calling Bull Shit on someone that claims what other hunters describe as experiencing, is wrong because THEY haven't experienced it.

Other than yourself, no one else has made the claim that muzzle blast from a rifle affected the animal that was killed in any way.

Nor has anyone but you mentioned recoil as a factor although recoil or the fear of same can cause a hunter not to shoot as accurately as they might, but that would more likely cause a wounded animal that has a better chance of being lost and not killed or as you claim, "Over Killed".

No Sir, you think you are some one special and takes themselves too seriously. I am a nobody that likes to hunt and doesn't like seeing anyone that tells folks they did not actually experience what they claim to have experienced.

You have your 6.5 and are happy with it, but that does not mean everyone else thinks it is the be all/end all pig rifle on the planet.

Now that we're sharing photos and swapping lies, er hunting stories......

I shot this one in the boiler room and it dropped on the spot and made no attempt at leaving the county. 335 grain flat-nosed hard cast bullet (.45 Colt) at a bit over 1,300 fps.



Here is a rare photo of me with a rifle -- the afore mentioned .416 Remmie loaded with 300 grain TSXs. It didn't leave a drop of blood on the ground oddly enough despite the massive internal damage.



Big sow with a .44 Mag........

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
I am not a "Fine" example of anything.

As I remember, you used to be OK.

But you seem to have turned - into a fine example of blowhard.

KB

With deference to ol' Tex Ritter.........

Whatcha think, could change the words and sing to the same tune.......

There was blood behind the earhole
and there was blood all around
and a great big puddle of blood on the ground.

A hoglet lay in it
all covered with gore.
And he never will root
under any feeders no more.

Oh pity the fat hoglet
all bloody and red
For the bullet, it did fell him
and put a hole in his head.

(in truth it was an 85 grain Nosler Partiton out of a 240 Weatherby)




JAPMF,

GWB

No KB I am not a blow hard, unless you consider anyone whose experience killing hogs doesn't mirror the ones you have had, a blow hard.

Both here and in the ARPF, you bring this stuff on your self because of some of the stuff you come out with.

You have found a rifle/caliber combination you really like, Good For You. All of us that hunt anything look for that "Holy Grail" of rifle/caliber/scope combination that does everything but walk the dog or mow the lawn.

But that does not mean people are NOT going to take you to task for making statements about the .308 or .30-06 being too big, with their muzzle blast and recoil adding to a so-called "Over kill" effect that does not exist.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Both here and in the ARPF, you bring this stuff on your self because of some of the stuff you come out with.

Well, there ya go. You're still pissed off about stuff I said in ARPF. It's my intent that what happens in ARPF, stays in ARPF, but you can't help yourself. My mention of overkill was not provocative,, but it set you off and you had a choice - you could have been nice or insult me, and you chose the latter.

Be nice and you won't get an argument out of me. I am avoiding ARPF because it's sick over there. Please leave your pissed off over there and look for me there. Don't hold your breath.

KB

I too would not like the vehemence of the ARPF to spill over here, so play nicely gentlemen. It's a new year, how about we start off with a clean slate??????

More lies and photos.......

.475 Linebaugh -- 420 grain hard cast flat-nosed bullet leaving the muzzle at 1,350 fps. 80 yard shot, boiler room, dropped on the spot, DRT.



This 200-pounder ate 400 grains of .454 Casull and gave up the ghost......

Those Wankers(say it fast and it sounds just like "Oinkers") prolly never knew what hit em', much less that it was a "gun of the hand".

Good on ya' Whitworth.

Bet there are a lot more pix out there that guys could publish if they were a mind to take the time.

Best,

GWB

Good looking oinker's and gun.

quote:

Bet there are a lot more pix out there that guys could publish if they were a mind to take the time.

Let me see.

[url=http://s119.photobucket.com/user/campcook/media/23bd8eb8-9ef6-4441-aaa0-c9dca3006f8a_zps570f9e2c.jpg.html [/url]







Hardest part was finding a javelina wearing a Panama hat.

Here is one I shot last March with my 338 Federal. We was 160 lbs when we put him on the scale.

Here's another one dead from using an overkill rifle - the 308.

Notice the shot placement, which is definitely not where I wanted it. This is a good example of a shot placement that may have not done enough to keep the hog down with a lesser cartridge. In this case the hog was DRT.

I was shooting at night, about 80 yds, with the help of corn, a red dot 2x7 30mm Leupold, and a Solar LED yard light. I was trying to be very, very careful and place the shot right, but despite that I wasn't careful enough. These hogs won't come in during daylight, and the trail camera tells the tale, so I have to try at night. My eyesight ain't what it used to be, but I'm very reluctant to start going for through the ribs shots, since I know it won't be a DRT shot, and I don't want to go looking for a dead hog in the bush in the dark, even fifty feet. Also, more often than not, with several hogs present, and with the fire ball and recoil, momentarily sight of the target hog is lost, and by the time of recovery it's too late to tell which way it ran. I also hate through the shoulder shots since they mess up so much meat, especially with an overkill cartridge.

I could use my 458 with some of those 300gr Barnes SOCOM blue tip boat tail bullets, slowed down to about 1600 fps at the muzzle, and just go for a good hit anywhere in the forward 1/3 of the hog. I think that would do it - big hole, rapid expansion, not much blood shot meat, no bullet fragmentation, no lead in the meat - eat right up to the hole. This rifle, a Ruger 77 MKII, is already set up with a Picatinny rail so an EOTech or other holographic type red dot would fit right on there. However, that Leupold 30mm with the variable red dot seemed to work well in low light and the magnification was helpful. The 458 eats scopes with full power loads, yes even a Leupold, but is nice and gentle on the shoulder and on scopes with reduced loads.

KB

KB,

I thought you were selling all those crappy bolt action rifles because you fell in love with the Grendel.

Geedub, that's a fine set of rifles you have there! We have very similar tastes in shootin' irons :-)

In my opinion, Hogs were put on this earth so that man could become more proficient with the double rifle. Great practice!

I don't have any crappy rifles. I got rid of those long ago. What's left are good ones, but most are for sale. I just haven't put them on gunbroker yet. I need to get busy and raise the money for a 90 hp four stroke.

The keepers in bolt action for now include the 458, a 9.3x57, 6.5 Grendel, one 30-06, and one 308. I have two rifles still in the shop, which I may never see again, which could be keepers, a 7.65 x 53 on a '98 FN, and a 6.5 Grendel on a Mini-Mauser.

The keeper AR are one 308 and two grendels. Also, one Encore in 7.62x54R. That ought to do it.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by scottfromdallas:
KB,

I thought you were selling all those crappy bolt action rifles because you fell in love with the Grendel.

Y'all are killing me.

One with my muzzleloader:



One with my Colt Light Rifle in 30-06:

.375H&H this boar took 4 shots. But I don't hunt them out of stand over bait. I like to walk them down and jump shoot them. So 99% of the time a nice surgical behind the ear shot from a solid rest isn't an option for me. Most of my shooting on hogs is snap shooting and off hand.

My daughter killed this one with an AR 10 and 150 gr Corelokts. We later had the exact same set up fail miserably on a big boar's shoulder. We killed him two days later and the bullet had flattened out on the shoulder bone after losing most of its energy trying to get through the shield. A 150 gr Corelokt out of a .308 is minimal big hog medicine. It'll kill the snot out of most average hogs but it is stretching it to reliably get to goods on a gnarly thick shielded boar.

.308 win with a 168 gr TSX. the Barnes X and TSX is world apart from a cup and core bullets on big hogs.
.416 Rem with a 400 gr TSX. Why? Because we can, not because it's required. Overkill? I guess but it does less meat damage than a high velocity smaller cup and core round that's a fact.

Three in row one right after the other as they busted out of cover with the help of a Jagdterrier. Off hand ranging from 100 to about 150 yards. .308 Win 168 gr TSX. Bang flop x three...

Sometimes when they are bayed up you just can't risk taking a shot. Cold Steel asegai with a longer handle..
.375H&H in the rain. Having a flush dog sure increases your shot opportunities on hogs..
Not only do they flush and bay they make easy work of a blood trail after a lousy shot too. This one was gut shot and not leaving much blood on the ground. I followed it for about an hour and was only able to push it for about 300 yards. I let Nitro loose on it and he had it in the bag within 5 minutes about 500 yards further on.

Did I mention that we don't lose many wounded hogs after applying a Jagdterrier to the problem?
He loved to flush bay and catch I loved to shoot them. RIP Kubi dog...

.470 NE once again not because it's needed but because it's fun and there is absolutely no better big bore shooting practice on the planet. I've killed upwards of 100 hogs with a .470 NE double rifle. There is no better way to get to know your rifle than to actually hunt and kill game with it.

Bruiser of a boar killed with a Steyr scout and 180 gr Nosler Partitions. This boar took one round through the shoulder which was massively shielded from about 20 yards as he jumped out of his bed in the thick cedar trees. fragments of the round were found between the skin and the off shoulder. The bullet disintegrated except for the partition which was still intact. Retained weight was about 20 grs. I know folk give the Nosler Partition high praise but after this experience I wouldn't use them on DG under any circumstances.


My daughter with a hog she killed with a .308 using 150 gr Sierra round

My other daughter with her .30-06. 150 Gr Hornandy SP.

This is why god gave us the double rifle. Two barrels, two hogs..


Hogs dogs and doubles rifles. I can't think of a better combination for fun under the sun.


Sometimes the most effective way to subdue a hog is with a good old fashioned ear scratching..

quote:

It's a new year, how about we start off with a clean slate??????

That works for me, question is, will it work for other people?

There are no "BEST" calibers for killing feral hogs.

They are pests, it does not matter what they are killed with as long as they are killed.

Any problems with that concept?

We are trapping them/poisoning them/shooting them from helicopters/chasing them with dogs and horses and killing them with knives, so what difference does it ACTUALLY MAKE, How They Are Killed And The Manner They Are Killed!

It Doesn't!

300 lb Boar with 6.8SPC

The age old argument.
What ever's in my hands.....
Depends on how you are hunting or shooting them.
I rate the 243 as Ive shot more pigs with this cal than any other mostly shot for the chiller trade from a vechile/ quad. Nearly all head shot with 85 sierra HPBT.
On foot I prefer the 308,7x57 for open country floodplain hunting.
Thicker in close hunting I use a 358, very efective.
Alot of pigs are taken on buff hunting trips with larger calibres, they are very effective but not realy necisary. But are great fun to use on pigs.
Try a few cals gets some experience and make your own opinion.
Heres a few pics
Cheers Mick
few quick running shots with 22lr win HP 9422xtr
.50 cal CVA25m running
.243 styer 85 partitions
.223 factory 55 winSP
22WMR 40gr CCI
358 MLR running 2 shots first a bit high 200gr hornadys
Storm with 22 hornet 45gr sp
Sage with here first kill styer 243
Storm 20min later 2 shots 85 partitions
308 rem 700 150 win SP
Boondi, mate with 45/70 awesome pig stopper, great fun
358
30/30 150 win SP
264WM
338WM 185 TSX
458WM
Storm about to take her first pig with 22 hornet
Storm 243 styer 85 partition
Chris ,Tammy 243 bust up wet season
338WM
223 55win SP
375H&H
7x57 145 win SP
.577 2 3/4 light nitro

I had a feelin' that there were some bona fide pig murderers lurkin' out there.....................


Surestrike,
looks like you got'em hog problem, but have things well under control. They say the family that slays together stays together. Good on ya!

Do like hogs with tushes.....













Brush Buster, we may have call you the Boar Buster. Good one. It's root hog or die where I hunt and 15 years of hunting the Texas hill country I've only killed one hog over 300 lbs and can count on two hands the ones I've killed over 250 lbs. Thats a good'un.






and Randall,



any which way but loose.

Keep 'em coming guys!!!!!!


Best,


GWB

Mick,

no way this Wanker can keep up with you.

You do whack and stack.

Good stuff.

Would love to hear details sometimes.

Best,

GWB

Very impressive pictures. Point is, as you stated,

quote:

Try a few cals gets some experience and make your own opinion.

Any caliber/bullet combination a person can shoot accurately, WORKS.

It boils down to the results the INDIVIDUAL hunter wants.

It does not matter what the individual hunter uses, as long as they can accurately place their shot in kill zone.

Anyone want to dispute that?

That is what this whole discussion boils down to, there is no actual best caliber for killing hogs.

There are personal preferences for various reasons, but in the end, all of us want a dead pig after the shot without a lot of tracking.