I see pigs taken with a wide range of calibers from .223 to .375. Need thoughts as to what is the best range of bore sizes to cover all sizes of pork. After seeing the size of some of the pigs pictured, I would tend to favor something in the .35 Whelen power area. What works best and is capable of humanely killing?????????/

As you stated

quote:

I see pigs taken with a wide range of calibers from .223 to .375.

, there is no best.

Too much variation in hunting situations/shooting situations, personal experience and ability of the hunter.

Hunting pigs is definitely not a one size fits all.

I am not a fan of the .223/.224 group of cartridges, but used within the limitations of the ability of the shooter and the limitations of the cartridge, there isn't a pig in North America regardless of size that will survive a brain shot from any of the .223/.224 group, from 0 to 150 yards depending on the shooter.

As you go up in caliber sizes and power, the choice of places to place the shot on a pig expand. Pigs are perfect for experimentation with different calibers.

All of the above is just my opinion, nothing more. The only fact is that regardless of the game pig/deer/elk/bear etc. etc. etc. the biggest factor involved for a successful kill is accurately placing the first shot where it needs to go.

Yeah, what CH said. Be able to handle the rifle gun well enough that you can place it where you want.
My wife used a 223 with behind the ear placement shots for 50# to 325 pound hogs. She upped it to a 300 blackout in a single shot Contender, with behind the ear placement.

I use a 7x57 in a Dakota 10. Same placement, it is just that I can do it at longer range if need be. Our hunts are free range. But we both use our one gun for everything we hunt.

Pigs are good to play with till you get the gun you want. Pigs are also good for me to play with my knife designs till I get what I need it to do.

Didn't mean for my response to come across as being a know-it-all, but I have been in on the killing of a few pigs, my own and clients.

Even though I am not a fan of either of the three, the .270/.308/.30-06 will handle 99.999% of the shots on any size pig anyone in North America is going to run into.

The only time I ever see a problem is 100 yard + shoulder shots on 180 pound and larger boars, simply due to the gristle/fighting shield that those animals develop.

I have processed several oinkers in that weight class over the years, where the three cartridges I mentioned and even .7mm Rem Mag, did not produce an exit wound at 100 yards.

Head shots placed properly, with a bullet of any diameter, at almost any velocity is going to drop the majority of pigs where they are standing, regardless of the size of the pig.

It is when a hunter has to deal with shoulder shots, especially on bigger pigs that they need to look at using something that will put a little more hurt on a critter.

My first ever feral hog weighed in at 325 pounds gutted. I dropped it with one shot from my .300 Weatherby using 150 grain Barnes "X" Flat Base bullets. It was about a 75 maybe 80 yard shot, but the animal was facing me and turned his head to the left looking at something, and I put the bullet in between his right shoulder and neck and he dropped on the spot.

In 45 years of hunting it was probably the best shot I ever made.

CH, naw, I never thought so. It was good info. That was a good shot you placed on the pig you mentioned.
Our little camp has taken 136 hogs this year. I really like to hone the shooting during the year.
Our biggest hogs runs about 350-450 tops. Average hog is about 150-225.

Thanks for your experienced thoughts. I saw somewhere that the heart and brain on pigs sit a little differently than on, say, deer or elk. The heart seems farther back and the brain is not in the dome of the head (or something like that).
My son-in-law has hunted pigs in his area of northern California and has mentioned he has had nothing but problems with his shots on wild pigs. He sort of feels they are "invincible" and his .308 isn't enough gun to get the job done.
Yet I hear of folks telling that their .223's and .243's are plenty. Just want to hear what the experienced guys here have to say.

I have dropped them in their tracks with a 22 long rifle, had one run with a 458 Lott. I usual select for the yardage to the blind! Only caliber I do not recomend is the old 30 30. Most simply have not been found even with a good hit. I do not know why.Pigs shoot them with class, the bigger the caliber the better!

I've not killed near as many as some on the board but do have about 400 personal hog kills to base my opinions on. While I've taken hogs cleanly with a .223 and even a .22 CB short, a bullet of at least 6.5mm/120 grains is where appropriate choices begin for me. But I don't use the magnums, either, and know that moderate velocity allows "standard" bullets to perform more like a premium. I've cleanly killed dozens with a 30-30 AI and 150 grain Ballistic Tips and Accubonds at 2575 fps MV, lots more with a little 7mm Bullberry and 140 grain Noslers at 2400 to 2450 fps MV and at least 60 with a 6.5 Bullberry IMP (aka 6.5x30-30 AI) and 129 Hornady SPs, 130 grain Accubonds and 140 grain Sierra GKs (129/130s at slightly over 2600 fps and 140s at 2400+ fps).

A hog's vitals are more compactly placed and more forward as opposed to a whitetail, and many do not realize this and shoot them too far back. I rarely take brain/neck shots as a hog's head seems to be in perpetual motion.

I have killed them with nearly everything I have owned over the years. Being almost exclusively a handgun hunter nowadays, I like large diameter for large holes, and penetration is your friend. As far as rifles are concerned, premium bullets have made many calibers that were considered light in the past, viable hog medicine today. All that said, placement is still king.

For rifles 260 remington-375 hh mag

For pistols 10mm-to 454 casaul

I have to stir the pot here a little...

I always have to chuckle at "the 223 is good for hogs if you shoot them in or behind the ear"...

Just about about about anything is good for anything if you shoot it "in or behind the ear"

Bottom line up front; you must reach the vitals and complete penetration is best.
I use big calibers; I do not hunt where the hogs will leisurely graze in pastures so you can snipe them at your pleasure; in that case you can use most anything.
I want a caliber that will punch through 2 or 3 feet of pig and reach the vitals. I got one last week with a 30-06, broadside; the 180 Sierra did not penetrate completely. That is the smallest thing I have ever used on hogs and I won't again; I just wanted to use my Baikal.
You get the picture of where I and Elmer are on the topic.

I have been using the 6.5 Grendel for deer and hogs for about three years, and the more I use it the more I like it. It has never failed, and based on results it's better than merely adequate.

Recently, I went after some large hogs and decided to take a 308, mostly because the rifle had a red dot type scope on it. I got one of the smaller hogs, which again confirmed my opinion that the 308 is overkill.

I have friends who started using the 6.5 Grendel when I talked so highly of it, and produced results, and, with actual field experience, they quickly became as fond of it as I am.

A few weeks ago my brother in law was here and we didn't get around to sighting in his rifle, so I loaned him my Grendel even though he shoots left handed. He only needed one shot, and got the biggest buck he's taken in over twenty five years. Classic complete penetration with the bullet under the hide. Penetrated bone too. He commented about how mild the recoil and blast was.

Anyway - that's my two cents. Bigger or faster cartridges are fine, but IMO they are not needed.

The 6.8 SPC is probably real close to the 6.5 Grendel for deer and hogs. These two cartridges are my minimum. I also like the 6.5 Grendel because I have a custom Ruger bolt action chambered in it, so I use both the AR and the bolt action, depending on the whim of the day.

I also have an AR and a Ruger bolt action in 308, and certainly feel that they are more than adequate for all situations.

KB

KB, There IS NO SUCH THING AS OVERKILL, PERIOD.

There is only ONE DEGREE OF DEAD!

I would suggest that the optics are far more important than the rifle in that hogs are frequently shot at dusk or at night. If you use NV gear, you are limited by the mounting system and the fragility of the NV gear to recoil.

I also agree that conventional bullets at modest velocity are highly effective. My 105 grain Speer .243 bullets @ 2600 fps killed very reliably, and I had a .284 160 grain Accubond fail to exit when shot out of a 7 Ultra.

Obviously, the Accubond did the job, even if it didn't exit.



The .243 @ 2575 fps.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
KB, There IS NO SUCH THING AS OVERKILL, PERIOD.

There is only ONE DEGREE OF DEAD!

You define overkill that way so you can argue and be smug about it.

Overkill can be defined as including more blast and recoil and bloodshot meat than a merely adequate cartridge will produce.

Everyone know that dead is dead, but dead from the blast of a case of explosive is overkill from a meat hunter view. It's a relative thingy.

Use enough gun, but more than that is superfluous and way more than that is overkill.

Besides, some of us kinda graduate to preferring the sweet shooting cartridges and in assessing that, blast and recoil is definitely a factor.

Others never get over or past the rush of having their shoulder thumped and their ears challenged.

Also besides, it's easier to whack um behind the ear if you don't have to hold the rifle so tight to avoid getting whacked yourself. I can hold up to about a 308 lightly and finesse the trigger, but it's just easier with cartridges like the 6.5mm.

The 243 is an example of what I'm talking about. Nowadays I would rather shoot a 243 for hogs and deer than a 30-06. Although the blast is about the same, the recoil is not. Both result in dead, but by my definition, generally the 30-06 is overkill. So is my 308 IMO, but I like to use it anyway.

Overkill isn't about dead, but about more than enough, like five coats of paint, when three is plenty. In this example, it's a figure of speech, and that's the way I use the term re rifle - cartridge combos.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:

The 6.8 SPC is probably real close to the 6.5 Grendel for deer and hogs. These two cartridges are my minimum.
KB

These are my thoughts as well. I would start at the 6.8 and go up from there (don't have a Grendel but same thing). There is a guy on the 6.8 Forums that kills them all the time and post videos. He uses the 120 SST.

The hog in this vides shows you how tough they can be.

http://68forums.com/forums/sho...0-pound-Zombie-Boar!

Back when I was making my initial choice of cartridge for an AR15 build, I had it narrowed down to the 6.8mm or 6.5mm. It came down to sectional density. The 6.5mm is better compared to 6.8mm both using 120 gr bullets. This may be a slight distinction in practical use, but the 6.5mm is historically notorious for performance. I know already that the 270 is also notorious, but there we're talking about minimum 130 gr and a lot faster.

Then later it was easier to find an action with the correct magazine and bolt face to build a bolt action Grendel on than it was the 6.8. The Grendel takes a PPC bolt face and magazine/follower.

KB

My opinion on this is that you would see a significant difference in results had the same hits been from a 308 with a decent bullet. Also IMO, another way of putting it is that the video shows why I consider the 6.8 and perhaps the 6.5 Grendel minimum. He was using SST bullets and they do favor expansion over penetration. The big boars have very tough hide, compared to a deer for example.

The video makes one wonder what kind of setup he had to be so steady.

quote:

Originally posted by scottfromdallas:

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:

The 6.8 SPC is probably real close to the 6.5 Grendel for deer and hogs. These two cartridges are my minimum.
KB

These are my thoughts as well. I would start at the 6.8 and go up from there (don't have a Grendel but same thing). There is a guy on the 6.8 Forums that kills them all the time and post videos. He uses the 120 SST.

The hog in this vides shows you how tough they can be.

http://68forums.com/forums/sho...0-pound-Zombie-Boar!

KB, your as full of shit as usual.

I have been a meat hunter for a while and dead is dead.

Proper bullet selection plays a role in the amount of meat destruction, that is why I use Barnes. Proper powder charges also play a part in helping control meat destruction.

Because the shooter is a pussy and is concerned about recoil, especially when shooting at game, has nothing to do with the killing effect/efficiency of ANY cartridge.

A .308 or .30-06 does not recoil that much, so trying to equate "Over Kill" using the perceived/supposed amount of recoil of any particular group of rifle/cartridge combinations is pure BS.

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
The big boars have very tough hide, compared to a deer for example.

They are more densely constructed than deer, but the real game changer can be a thick gristle plate more than tough skin.

Jest fer schitz n giggles.............



9.3 x 74R, and a "hawg" of a hopper.


Would this be considered "overkill"?



GWB

I have skinned a couple of older animals where that gristle extended almost to their back legs, and have seen several instances where the off-side gristle prevented bullets from even .7mm Rem Mag and .30-06 from exiting on shots of slightly over 100 yards.

While others have different opinions, when guiding a client I suggest that on the larger pigs they shoot for the shoulder and try to break one or both shoulders and hopefully damage the heart/lungs.

I just happen to believe that getting the front legs out of commission goes a long way toward recovering an animal that has been hit.

Seen too many cases where a behind the shoulder/typical heart-lung shot on pigs simply didn't turn out good and even though it was a pig, the animal was not recovered.

Just my experience, others mileage will vary.

Randall, I like the high-shoulder shot as well. Nothing better than anchoring them. It goes a long way towards quick recovery.

My favorite shot........




Envision an imaginary line between the ear and shoulder. Place your bullet about two inches or so below the ear.





Severs the spine and they drop and paddle......








no tracking




just mosey on down and pick em' up




Works even if you're off by an inch.





almost no bloodshot meat, and removing the head is a breeze.



JAPMF

GWB

Geedubya, if everyone that hunted with me had your level of experience, I would be quite happy for them to take that type shot.

Reality however is not that kind. Sometimes just getting some of those I have guided to hit a 100+ pound pig SOMEWHERE in the shoulder/chest at 100 yards or less is an issue.

Too many folks simply do not have enough opportunities to become that proficient with their equipment.

I tend to err on the side of a high percentage shot at a larger target than a finesse shot that it takes lots of shooting to get good at.

quote:

9.3 x 74R, and a "hawg" of a hopper.Would this be considered "overkill"?

I don't, but then I can vividly remember a 200 pound plus boar that I got into a little dance with and it took three shots from my .375 H&H to overkill that bastard.

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
My opinion on this is that you would see a significant difference in results had the same hits been from a 308 with a decent bullet. Also IMO, another way of putting it is that the video shows why I consider the 6.8 and perhaps the 6.5 Grendel minimum. He was using SST bullets and they do favor expansion over penetration. The big boars have very tough hide, compared to a deer for example.

The video makes one wonder what kind of setup he had to be so steady.

quote:

Originally posted by scottfromdallas:

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:

The 6.8 SPC is probably real close to the 6.5 Grendel for deer and hogs. These two cartridges are my minimum.
KB

These are my thoughts as well. I would start at the 6.8 and go up from there (don't have a Grendel but same thing). There is a guy on the 6.8 Forums that kills them all the time and post videos. He uses the 120 SST.

The hog in this vides shows you how tough they can be.

http://68forums.com/forums/sho...0-pound-Zombie-Boar!

Maybe. He's shot a ton with the 6.8. 99% of the time they die, most DRT. There is always the 1% that are dead but refuse to accept it. I've seen him post one where a hog was hit simultaneously with a 6.8 and 308 it just took off and never slowed down.

This is a scruffy, sickly hog shot with a 286 Hornady 9.3x62 @ 2450 fps. Range was about 75 yards, and the hog ran about 80-100 yards into thick brush after a perfect lung shot that left pieces of lung and plenty of lung material on the ground. The moral of this story is always aim for bone when shooting hogs. Shot placement trumps bullet weight, in my view.

Hogs, as with any other animal, do not operate with a script or playbook. A shot that will drop 10 or 100n pigs in a row, will run into that one pig that basically says Fuck You and heads for parts unknown like a Professional Wrassler.

The only consistent "Bang-Flops" I have ever witnessed or pulled off, were brain/spine i.e. central nervous system hits.

From what I have experienced with my own hunting and comments made among the Hallowed comments on Accurate Reloading, CNS DRT shots work on everything from Chipmunks to Elephants and every thing in between.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
KB, your as full of shit as usual.

A .308 or .30-06 does not recoil that much, so trying to equate "Over Kill" using the perceived/supposed amount of recoil of any particular group of rifle/cartridge combinations is pure BS.

Do you actually think?

Do you actually read?

You like to stir and provoke and get argument.

Go stew in ARPF

Write something intelligent instead of messing with me.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by scottfromdallas:
I've seen him post one where a hog was hit simultaneously with a 6.8 and 308 it just took off and never slowed down.

I've shot a few big hogs with the 308, and not always neck, head or spine shots, and the furthest any traveled was about twenty feet. One was a really big Texas boar, through the ribs. Most of the hogs I shoot have been from a stand overlooking a corn feeder, where I have adequate time to pick my shot, so most are neck shots, and most are DRT. It doesn't take a 308 to do that, and that type of shot isn't a good basis for judging what the cartridge can do. It's the less than perfect or through the ribs type shots that show the killing power of the cartridge. The police chief in the small Alaska town where I lived for a while shot several brown bears, who were unwelcomed visitors in town, with his AR in 308, right between the eyes when possible, and head or neck shots otherwise, and all I heard about or remember were DRT, and some were with FMJ type bullets. There was at least two that he couldn't get the proper head shot and he just punched several 308 bullets through it until it stopped trying to get up. I believe those were FMJ bullets too. I wouldn't do it, but he didn't have a problem with it and the results sorta showed he was right. This was a situation and a guy with high motivation to not have a wounded bear running around. He had the choice of many rifles, and chose his AR in 308. Failure was not an option and he chose his tool for the job wisely, as the evidence showed.

He did experiment with other cartridges, but it's a long story. The 450 Beowulf is an example and it failed miserably, and the bear had to be finished by another officer wit a 300 mag. After that the chief sold his great new toy AR15 with the 450 upper and went back to his trusted 308 AR10.

Frankly, I would be astonished if any hog "never slowed down" with a good hit from a 308, presuming the bullet was proper. I have that much confidence in the cartridge. If a hog went more than fifty feet after being hit with a 308, I would suspect improper bullet placement as the problem. A hog can't live more than a minute with no blood pressure and/or cant breathe. And a hog can't run far in a minute.

KB

Actually, KB, they can cover quite a bit of ground in a minute. Each animal is a law unto itself. If well hit, it will die, but there is never any telling how long before it concedes. Nothing wrong with the .450 Beowulf. If lousy bullets are used, you can't expect maximum performance. I don't like to indict cartridges based on one failure.

I shot a 250-lb boar with my .416 Remmie loaded with 300 grain TSX and he disappeared without a drop of blood on the ground. He didn't go far, was hit well, but I expected at least a little blood on terra firm. I found him the next morning. My point being, every animal is a law unto itself.

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:


Frankly, I would be astonished if any hog "never slowed down" with a good hit from a 308, presuming the bullet was proper. I have that much confidence in the cartridge. If a hog went more than fifty feet after being hit with a 308, I would suspect improper bullet placement as the problem. A hog can't live more than a minute with no blood pressure and/or cant breathe. And a hog can't run far in a minute.

KB

OK you are being literal now. I'm sure that hog died from the 308 shot but he may have made it to the next county. My point is simply animals don't react the same when hit, some die right there, some run a little ways and the 1% will run to the next county. There is that 1% that has a ton of fight in them. When I say running to the next county, I'm not being literal just making a point.

quote:

My point being, every animal is a law unto itself.

And ANYONE with any REAL hunting experience KNOWS that.

Anyone that hunts long enough and shoots at enough animals, soon realizes that each animal/each shot is unique.

one more for the Original Poster..........




Steyr Mountain Rifle, 308 Winchester, 150 gr. Nosler Accubond.

A little far back, but it was at night, 100 Yds and they were whirlin' like dervishes. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

JAPMF,


GWB

Kabluey wrote: "If a hog went more than fifty feet after being hit with a 308, I would suspect improper bullet placement as the problem. A hog can't live more than a minute with no blood pressure and/or cant breathe. And a hog can't run far in a minute."
---

Like the others, I will disagree with you on this one -- and if you've ever seen a hog running flat-out, you'd know that they can cover lots of real estate in a short time . The farthest I ever remember having a hog travel was one I took at 244 yards using a 28" .308 WCF shooting a 150 grain Sierra PH. That big sow had her heart absolutely destroyed (the bottom of the lungs also had significant damage ) by the bullet and gushed blood from the exit for over 170 yards. And she still made another 50-60 yards after that.-- through some difficult terrain, I might add. Adrenalin can push an animal even though it's technically dead on its feet.

As much as I love the .308 WCF, it's not a magic wand, either. (And yes, I've shot lots of creatures with the .308 WCF. Here are just a few...)

Bobby,

I didn't think you owned a bolt action.

Well, contrary to all the "indestructible hog" stories I read and hear, both in here and in the real world, I find hogs incredibly easy to kill, and, generally speaking not as tough as whitetail deer. Almost all of the "indestructible" hog stories can be easily traced to poor shot placement, both initially and as follow ups. Obviously there are always exceptions but hogs die quick and close if shot with a rapidly expanding bullet and whether it exits or not is immaterial when you can find them about 10 feet or less from where they were shot. In my experience, which is not as great as some in here, but certainly numbers in the high hundreds of hogs, fast and reasonably fragile bullets kill them right there, almost regardless of where they are shot, except for low gut shots way back. We also get good results with Partitions or similar, as long as you shoot them right.

The first hog I ever killed on my place was a 350 pound boar (also the biggest I've ever killed), that was trotting across my pastures early one morning at about 250 yards from me and he picked up the pace when he heard my truck. I had a .30-06 bolt action with some kind of standard bullets in it. At this remove, I don't recall the brand or type of bullet. Having nothing to lose, I bailed out and took my first shot at 250 plus and hit him too far back and low. He ran and I shot 5 more times, hitting him, mostly poorly, with 3 of them, hand loading the last two, finally anchoring him with a lucky neck shot at about 350-400 yards, but he was losing speed and might not have gotten much farther anyway. Was he a tough hog? Not really, the first shot sucked, and his adrenaline kicked in. Fortunately I've gotten a helluva lot better on running hogs since that episode, but I've rarely shot another one that far either.

Because it's my everyday carry, I shoot most of them with a 300 WM, mostly using 165 gr bullets, (for a while I used Ballistic Tips, and, again, contrary to popular opinion, they killed them easily) but I've killed them in the wild with everything from a .22 LR up to a .45-70. My best results based on dead hogs with one effort was with a Marlin .38-55 using Buffalo Bore rounds.

My experiences leave me to conclude that the .308 loaded with decent, not necessarily premium, 150-165 gr bullets to be as much as anyone could need on any hog, anywhere. If you like bigger or smaller, suits the hell out of me. 7mm-08, 6.5x55 and that class are all fine hog killers as well. The less recoil, the better the shot for many people. As has been said many times, within reason shot placement overcomes bullet diameter EVERY TIME.

PS: contrary to what someone mentioned above, the heart and lungs on hogs are tightly bunched forward, not "further back" as mentioned. If you're going to shoot behind the leg, shoot tight on the leg BUT many shots slightly too far back with rapidly expanding bullets take out the liver and the hog dies close.

Scott-I do, but they don't see the light of day very often!

My experience pretty much mirrors what Scott, CHC, Geedubya, Whitworth and Gato have said. And thanks for bringing up the anatomy issue -- one of my pet peeves. I saw a TV show a while back where the guy exclaimed "double lung" after a shot on a hog in which the impact on the broadside animal was several inches back from the shoulder. Hydrostatic shock likely damaged the liver, but all that shot of his got for sure was stomach -- and those contents can slow down a projectile in a hurry.

Here are a couple of my favorite bullets: Ballistic Tip, the C-T BST (simply the standard Ballistic Tip with the Lubalox coating) and Accubond. And the one next to the knife began life as a 125 grain/.30 cal that ended up penetrating much of a hog's body length on a semi-quartering shot: