...this is why every thing is bigger in Texas...

Happy hunting to all.

https://www.mysanantonio.com/s...y-weight-5147325.php

Feral hogs, whose Texas population is estimated at 2.6 million and growing, are an increasingly weighty problem across the state. But the prolific, adaptable, destructive wild swine are not nearly as weighty, individually, as it appears most Texans believe.

"You hear all the time about 300-, 400- or 500-pound (feral) pigs - these 'Hogzilla' stories," said Scott Henke, regents professor with Texas A&M University-Kingsville's Caesar Kleberg Wildlife Research Institute. "But my experience is that it is extremely rare to come up with a wild hog that weighs over 200 pounds."

Turns out Texans - even those with considerable experience hunting or trapping or otherwise dealing with feral hogs - are not very good when it comes to estimating the weight of feral hogs. Truth is, they're horrible at it, with most wildly exaggerating the weight of the pigs, most doubling the actual weight of the animal.

At least that's what Henke and graduate student Eric Mehlenbacher found when they conducted a research project aimed at testing the hypothesis that Texas hunters overestimate the size of feral hogs.

The project is just one of several science-driven investigations with which Henke has been involved over the past several years that poke holes in common misconceptions tied to wildlife and their behavior.

"We're actually going to put together a 'wildlife myth-buster' book using the findings of some of the research," Henke said.

Double the size

The feral hog project certainly makes suspicious any claims of a feral hog's weight if that pig wasn't actually weighed on a scale.

To test hunters' accuracy in estimating the size of feral hogs, Henke and Mehlenbacher live-trapped three feral hogs - a young pig, a subadult and an adult - and weighed each of them on a spring scale. The young pig weighed 12 pounds, the subadult was 68 pounds, and the adult hog was 121 pounds.

The live feral hogs were taken to a large outdoors/hunting show in Corpus Christi, where they were displayed in a pen. Researchers set up a "guess the weight" contest at the show, offering prizes to the participants who came closest to guessing the true weight of the pigs.

"We had all the pigs in a big cage where people could walk right up to them," Henke said.

A little more than 100 people participated in the contest, guessing the weight of each of the three feral hogs.

The results were telling.

"Basically, they guessed double the actual weight of the pigs," Henke said.

The mean estimated weight of the 12-pound piglet by the 104 participants was 27 pounds. The mean estimate for the 68-pound subadult was 114 pounds, it was and 231 pounds for the adult feral hog that really weighed 121 pounds.

The results didn't especially surprise Henke.

"People just seem to want to believe feral hogs are bigger than they really are," he said, noting the average weight of an adult feral hog in Texas is 118 pounds.

There are some big feral pigs out there, Henke said. But even adult boar feral hogs seldom weigh much more than 200 pounds and almost never get close to 300 pounds.

"The truth is, a 200-pound pig is huge," Henke said.

Myth-busting

Feral hogs aren't the only wildlife whose size hunters and others often overestimate. Coyotes are another.

Reports of 50- or 60-pound coyotes are fairly common in Texas. But they invariably are wildly exaggerated estimates.

During the course of research, Henke said, he has been involved in weighing more than 2,000 Texas coyotes.

"I've never seen one that weighed 40 pounds; the biggest weighed 38 pounds," he said. The average Texas coyote weighs 22-25 pounds.

"That's about the same as a border collie," Henke said, noting coyotes' long legs and thick fur often give the impression they are much larger than they really are.

Other research projects by Henke and graduate students at the highly respected Caesar Kleberg Wildlife Research Institute have punctured other beliefs long held by many Texas hunters.

Deer hunters have long believed it was ruinous to urinate anywhere close to their hunting area, as deer would pick up the scent and avoid coming anywhere close to the area.

Not true, Henke said.

"Actually, it seems deer are attracted by human urine," Henke said.

Similarly, CKWRI research debunked the belief that human hair effectively repels deer and other wildlife. Henke said researchers gathered "trash bags full" of human hair from barber shops and beauty salons and scattered it around wildlife feeders.

"It had no effect," Henke said. Remote sensing cameras set to monitor the sites recorded a parade of wildlife - deer, javelina, feral hogs, raccoons - sifting through the human hair to get food.

Various colognes sprinkled around feeders didn't result in wildlife's avoiding the sites.

Other research indicates wearing camouflage clothing is not as important as many hunters believe and not nearly as important as being still.

Researchers placed human mannequins dressed either in full camouflage or jeans and a checkered shirt in the open about 15 feet from deer feeders. Deer avoided the feeders for "a couple of days," Henke said, then ignored the mannequins no matter whether the fake human wore camo or regular clothes.

Other wildlife didn't even wait that long.

"We have pictures of raccoons climbing all over the mannequins in the open," Henke said.

If the mannequins were placed in the edge of a brush line, where they were somewhat obscured and their silhouettes not easily seen by deer, the deer never stopped coming to the feeders, ignoring the mannequins equally, no matter what clothes the mannequins wore.

Better understanding

Such research in people's beliefs about wildlife and wildlife behavior serves both sides, Henke said.

"It helps us better understand the animals and helps address some of the myths we have about them," he said.

And there can be very practical applications to some of the research. After the participants in the feral hog weight research watched the pigs be weighed and saw just how far off they were in their estimates, Henke offered some very practical advice.

"I strongly suggested they not go home and try to guess their wife's weight."

Okay Mike explain this, the first Feral Hog I killed here in Texas weighed in GUTTED at the processor at 325 pounds! What did that animal weigh on the hoof, less than the gutted weight and this was 12 hours after the animal was killed.

Contrary to some folks beliefs, most or the majority of us that hunt hiogs and deer here in Texas have accurate scales at out camps and in most instances, bring the deer/hog to camp ungutted to get an on hoof weight!

I tend to agree with the article.

Most hogs are under 200. Regardless, I have whacked my fair share of those over 200.

I think a black hog in low light can be difficult to judge. I have seen experienced guys, myself included, make mistakes. This is especially true when there is nothing to use as a reference. Distant does not help.

For example, I almost passed one day as I thought the hogs were small. I needed to get them off the feeder. I killed 3 with a single shot. The weights were 167, 153 and 142. I was shocked. I recon I have killed over a thousand of them.

My point is, unless or until a person spends the time in all areas of a particular region, making a "Blanket Statement" concerning hog sizes is ludicrous.

Are mistakes made concerning visual guesses about the weight of a pig, definitely, but those mistakes go both ways, high or low.

I agree.

That isc why we bnring every hog, ungutted to our base camp.

We have an accurate set of scales at our skinning area so we will know within a few pounds + or - of what we guessed.

Hogs will fool you, weight wise. I have been 30 pounds or so under and just as much or more over with my guesses.

All I know is that Randall was within 5 pounds on his estimates for all 5 pigs I have shot with him. They weighed from a low of 100 pounds to 200 as a high. I can't say if others in Texas are as accurate or not.

I've killed a bunch of them but only 2 over 200 on the scales---a 208 and a 258 or 259.

I have killed 3 maybe 4 that went over 200 and been in on the killing of a half dozen or so more, the biggest being the one I discussed earlier in this discussion that went 325 gutted.

I agree. I often chuckle when I see some of the 400 pound claims and a picture of a 200 pound hog -- and wide angle distortion of the subject doesn't work on me LOL! Ditto for those floppy-eared, pen-raised specimens that one central TX outfitter tries to pass off as wild.

As best as we can figure, I've killed somewhere approaching the 500 mark on hogs. And those that approach or surpass the 300 pound plateau are extremely rare.

A good, mature boar around here will go 180 pounds. An exceptional one will tip the scales around 220-225.

I've been fortunate enough to take a handful of brutes in the 300-pound class, but like I noted those are truly rare and comprise maybe 1 percent or so of those taken.

I don't know about the size of the hogs between A&M and San Antonio but between Guthrie and Childress there are many over 200 pound hogs, a reasonable number of 300 pounders and 400 pound hogs are killed every year up there. Hunting pressure is light due to lots of Acreage that is not hunted at all, a lot of forage and the lineage of the hogs there. For some reason the numbers of hogs are not outrageous. I have never seen a group of more than 10. Could be the coyotes and mountain lions actually have an effect.

Around here, things change a lot with the water levels. Hogs move as the levels change.

I have killed a lot of them over 200. I would say dozens. When it gets to 300 or above, the numbers start to really drop off. I have killed a few. Seen a few more .

The biggest I ever killed was in 1991. It was in an orange grove. A buddy of mine called me about it. I shot it. We couldn’t load it. We gutted it. After field dressing, we could barely load it.

We weighed the hide . We then weighed the meat with the head attached. The total was just over 500 pounds.

We whacked another one day that 3 of us could not load. We gutted it. Field dressed, it bottomed out scales that maxed at 400 pounds.

I am a member at a place that seems to get more than its fair share of big hogs in the spring/summer. We have killed a pile of big hogs there. I have seen a couple that I couldn’t get a shot at that really got my attention.

Some of these bar hogs are enormous. Often, they only show in the middle of the night.

It's even worse when people judge Bears...they seem to start at 400 lbs.

This is the largest pig we have trapped on our place so far, 306 lbs weighed on the buyers scale.

There is also always the question of just how wild/feral is that particular hog.

The photo shows a good comparison.

The pig on the right is known by the taxidermist to be a feral hog.

The pig on the left is said to be a "wild" hog.

There is little doubt that some of the enormous hogs shot are escaped farm hogs.

The feral hogs in the area between Childress and Guthrie seemed to be descended from the Poland China breed of pig. I saw one under a feeder that was so big I thought it was a cow, it was big and spotted. The wheat fields north of Abilene have some big ones too.

quote:

There is little doubt that some of the enormous hogs shot are escaped farm hogs.

I can see the possibility of that in some areas, but just thinking about this area, I do not know of anyone rasising hogs.

That is not saying that some enterprising individuals are not buying hogs and turning them loose.

I've prolly killed well over 1K hoglets. I can usually get within 50 lbs. IMHO the actual weight of hoglets is something that is misjudged on the plus side, more often than not.





315 lbs., weighed on scale.



275 lbs., weighed on scale





here is one that was a pretty good one. I tried to weigh him but when I hung him from the scale his head was still laying on the ground. IIRC the scale read 275 lbs.


here is another pix to give another view. This may be the biggest hoglet I ever recovered.




did not get to weigh this one, but he was a bruiser.



and one more



no weight but a pretty good pig!

ya!


GWB

Oh they are out there.

I have a 316, a 270, 242, 212, 208 to my credit out of about 40 total.

Have seen another three or 4 that hit high 2s.

I think the point of the article is about a general tendency to over estimate.

Over estimating is more common than under estimating from my experiences. Other peoples milage may vary.

I agree with Crazyhorse most errors are on the over side than the under. Most hogs are lest than 150 lbs around here, but those over 200 or not rare, just not common. I figure I've killed over 500 hogs and I had three approach 300 lbs. or so. Here is a pic of a good one, I did not
weigh it, but it is over 200 lbs.

In many ways I think the bigger pigs are not all that different, except maybe a good bit smarter than big white tail bucks.

You don't get that size by being stupid and pigs are a lot smarter than deer.

We see some 300+ pounders, but very few are killed, few are trapped, but they are out there and every now and then one of them screws the pooch and gets shot.

Some of the real giant hogs that we see around here are only seen on trail cams in the middle of the night. They are rarely, if ever, seen in daylight around here. They are very smart and very wary.

I will tell you all the story of a big one that haunts me to this day. It was August 2014. I was up at a place in Gilchrist County where I am a member. I was leaving to go sheep hunting the next day. It was HOT!!!

We were seeing nothing. I told my buddy Jeff let's check this one particular feeder that is called Sergio's for some unknown reason. It often has big hogs, some even beat the feeder down.

I peeked around the corner. Hogs! Nothing remarkable. We put the slip on them. Wind was good. I got on the sticks. Then I noticed a BIG red boar hog coming. Damn this was a big one. I am sure he was 250. I have the hots for big red boar hogs. I am salivating. I look up and I can't believe what I am seeing. A black bar hog is coming. A GIANT black bar hog. This thing makes the red boar look little. He is one of the biggest hogs I have ever seen. I recon over 500.

I get on the sticks. Jeff has a video camera. He is filming. I have my 300 Win Mag. BOOM! Smack! The bar take off shoulder flopping. He only has about 3 steps before we can't see him any more.

I jack another cartridge in and cut another boar down as he is running off.I am excited as hell. Jeff is excited as hell. He is an old cracker. A natural born killer. When he gets excited over a hog, you know it is big.

We wait about 5 minutes. We watch the video. I hit the bar square on the shoulder. Jeff says lets go, he is dead.

We walk up. The second hog is laying dead in the middle of the road the other way. We find the bar's tracks. We never find any blood. We looked and looked and looked. We checked the video again. Perfect shot.

I gave up. I offered the ranch hands a $1,000 reward for anyone who found him. He was never found and has never been seen again.

I was using Berger VLDs in my gun. We recon the bullet broke up on impact. I am sick to this day over that one.

Not familiar with that bullet, but it failed. Too much hog, too much velocity perhaps for the jacket, I do not know. I don't find hogs hard to kill, but very difficult to track, especially one carrying lots of fat. A 500 lbs. barr is particularly fat. Good story.

Sorry to hear about your loss of that monster hog. I'd be sick about it. Was it a long shot? Sure would like to see the footage. I'd had some Norma 7X57's that had a soft report. Did the report sound normal. Bummer.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Some of the real giant hogs that we see around here are only seen on trail cams in the middle of the night. They are rarely, if ever, seen in daylight around here. They are very smart and very wary.

I will tell you all the story of a big one that haunts me to this day. It was August 2014. I was up at a place in Gilchrist County where I am a member. I was leaving to go sheep hunting the next day. It was HOT!!!

We were seeing nothing. I told my buddy Jeff let's check this one particular feeder that is called Sergio's for some unknown reason. It often has big hogs, some even beat the feeder down.

I peeked around the corner. Hogs! Nothing remarkable. We put the slip on them. Wind was good. I got on the sticks. Then I noticed a BIG red boar hog coming. Damn this was a big one. I am sure he was 250. I have the hots for big red boar hogs. I am salivating. I look up and I can't believe what I am seeing. A black bar hog is coming. A GIANT black bar hog. This thing makes the red boar look little. He is one of the biggest hogs I have ever seen. I recon over 500.

I get on the sticks. Jeff has a video camera. He is filming. I have my 300 Win Mag. BOOM! Smack! The bar take off shoulder flopping. He only has about 3 steps before we can't see him any more.

I jack another cartridge in and cut another boar down as he is running off.I am excited as hell. Jeff is excited as hell. He is an old cracker. A natural born killer. When he gets excited over a hog, you know it is big.

We wait about 5 minutes. We watch the video. I hit the bar square on the shoulder. Jeff says lets go, he is dead.

We walk up. The second hog is laying dead in the middle of the road the other way. We find the bar's tracks. We never find any blood. We looked and looked and looked. We checked the video again. Perfect shot.

I gave up. I offered the ranch hands a $1,000 reward for anyone who found him. He was never found and has never been seen again.

I was using Berger VLDs in my gun. We recon the bullet broke up on impact. I am sick to this day over that one.

I sure get the point of the article --
for me, jeff put bullets in it and it was recovered
>300 - ONE .. how much bigger than 300? dunno, scale read 300 and pegged out, head still on the ground
>250 - mebbe 4 - only one really close to 300, but 296 is under - everyone was surprised that it wasn't over 350 .. big, mean, scarred up and nasty -- made great tamales, btw

>175 <250 - several - call it 25-30, most closer to the 175 mark than 250

>50<175 - most of the hogs i've taken have been here, -- i am well pleased with a good hunt and stalk and taking these - to me, 75# pigs are almost always good eating, many "big pigs" are closer to 125-150

<50 - a bunch - as these are generally for camp meat, i don't really keep track of them

to me, a hog over 250# is a lord of the forest, no natural predators, other than another hog or a hunter, and is the apex predator of EVERYTHING smaller, including other hogs


i've seen a very few WAY over 300 on the scales -- even one that was truly a wild critter -- he'd been a ghost on our lease for years -- the rest on game ranches -

quote:

Originally posted by custombolt:
Sorry to hear about your loss of that monster hog. I'd be sick about it. Was it a long shot? Sure would like to see the footage. I'd had some Norma 7X57's that had a soft report. Did the report sound normal. Bummer.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Some of the real giant hogs that we see around here are only seen on trail cams in the middle of the night. They are rarely, if ever, seen in daylight around here. They are very smart and very wary.

I will tell you all the story of a big one that haunts me to this day. It was August 2014. I was up at a place in Gilchrist County where I am a member. I was leaving to go sheep hunting the next day. It was HOT!!!

We were seeing nothing. I told my buddy Jeff let's check this one particular feeder that is called Sergio's for some unknown reason. It often has big hogs, some even beat the feeder down.

I peeked around the corner. Hogs! Nothing remarkable. We put the slip on them. Wind was good. I got on the sticks. Then I noticed a BIG red boar hog coming. Damn this was a big one. I am sure he was 250. I have the hots for big red boar hogs. I am salivating. I look up and I can't believe what I am seeing. A black bar hog is coming. A GIANT black bar hog. This thing makes the red boar look little. He is one of the biggest hogs I have ever seen. I recon over 500.

I get on the sticks. Jeff has a video camera. He is filming. I have my 300 Win Mag. BOOM! Smack! The bar take off shoulder flopping. He only has about 3 steps before we can't see him any more.

I jack another cartridge in and cut another boar down as he is running off.I am excited as hell. Jeff is excited as hell. He is an old cracker. A natural born killer. When he gets excited over a hog, you know it is big.

We wait about 5 minutes. We watch the video. I hit the bar square on the shoulder. Jeff says lets go, he is dead.

We walk up. The second hog is laying dead in the middle of the road the other way. We find the bar's tracks. We never find any blood. We looked and looked and looked. We checked the video again. Perfect shot.

I gave up. I offered the ranch hands a $1,000 reward for anyone who found him. He was never found and has never been seen again.

I was using Berger VLDs in my gun. We recon the bullet broke up on impact. I am sick to this day over that one.

The shot sounded normal. It was not far. 70-80 yards .

The bullet has a thin jacket.

Another day, another chance. Git 'em.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by custombolt:
Sorry to hear about your loss of that monster hog. I'd be sick about it. Was it a long shot? Sure would like to see the footage. I'd had some Norma 7X57's that had a soft report. Did the report sound normal. Bummer.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Some of the real giant hogs that we see around here are only seen on trail cams in the middle of the night. They are rarely, if ever, seen in daylight around here. They are very smart and very wary.

I will tell you all the story of a big one that haunts me to this day. It was August 2014. I was up at a place in Gilchrist County where I am a member. I was leaving to go sheep hunting the next day. It was HOT!!!

We were seeing nothing. I told my buddy Jeff let's check this one particular feeder that is called Sergio's for some unknown reason. It often has big hogs, some even beat the feeder down.

I peeked around the corner. Hogs! Nothing remarkable. We put the slip on them. Wind was good. I got on the sticks. Then I noticed a BIG red boar hog coming. Damn this was a big one. I am sure he was 250. I have the hots for big red boar hogs. I am salivating. I look up and I can't believe what I am seeing. A black bar hog is coming. A GIANT black bar hog. This thing makes the red boar look little. He is one of the biggest hogs I have ever seen. I recon over 500.

I get on the sticks. Jeff has a video camera. He is filming. I have my 300 Win Mag. BOOM! Smack! The bar take off shoulder flopping. He only has about 3 steps before we can't see him any more.

I jack another cartridge in and cut another boar down as he is running off.I am excited as hell. Jeff is excited as hell. He is an old cracker. A natural born killer. When he gets excited over a hog, you know it is big.

We wait about 5 minutes. We watch the video. I hit the bar square on the shoulder. Jeff says lets go, he is dead.

We walk up. The second hog is laying dead in the middle of the road the other way. We find the bar's tracks. We never find any blood. We looked and looked and looked. We checked the video again. Perfect shot.

I gave up. I offered the ranch hands a $1,000 reward for anyone who found him. He was never found and has never been seen again.

I was using Berger VLDs in my gun. We recon the bullet broke up on impact. I am sick to this day over that one.

The shot sounded normal. It was not far. 70-80 yards .

The bullet has a thin jacket.

Several years ago John Barsness did a write-up on his experience with Berger bullets on a hunt in New Zealand, IIRC. There were also numerous video's showing one shot kills at distances.


Although not a long range shooter I thought I'd give them a try.

IMHO, they are akin to the original Hornady SST's and are too frangible for my tastes when it comes to perforating hoglets.

Here is one shot at +/- 175 yds. with IIRC 150 GR. Bergers out of a 270 WSM.



I find that the Barnes TSX can also be a problem, not with penetration, but with "penciling" thru and not leaving a big leaky hole on the "flop-side".

My favorite bullet for hogs across the spectrum from 25 cal to 375 cal is the Nosler Accubond, followed by the Partition,and then in 30 cal, the 165 gr. HPBT Sierra Game King.

IMHO, two leaky holes are better than one if one has to track!











ya!


GWB

I agree with you sir.

I hate the TSX. We stopped using those years ago for the exact same reasons you stated.

I have stopped with the Bergers as well. I obviously had issues on this hog. I shot a few bucks that died on the spot but the bullet didn’t penetrate. I started to question them.

About 3 years ago, I had Safari Arms load some Accubonds for me. Love them.

Do not know what ranges you are shooting at, but for myself, Lora and any guided clients I may have, I want the shooter to hold dead center of the on-side shoulder.

Yes, a littl meat can be/will be lost but a solid hit to the shoulder/shoulder blade will get the job done.

GWB:
Sure looks like you made a "real leaker"
that time at least. Wouldn't be hard to track
one with a double trail like that. Wouldn't go
very far either.

George

The best leak maker I have used is my 35 Whelen pushing either 225 gr. Woodleigh RN's or 250 gr. Hornady RN's started at 2400 fps. I seem to think Hornady bullets with the way they are scived to end up with sharp talons when extended during penetration are capable leak makers in general.

quote:

Originally posted by Palidun:
The best leak maker I have used is my 35 Whelen pushing either 225 gr. Woodleigh RN's or 250 gr. Hornady RN's started at 2400 fps. I seem to think Hornady bullets with the way they are scived to end up with sharp talons when extended during penetration are capable leak makers in general.

Yup, no fleas on the 35 Whelen!




35 whelen, 225 gr accubond


A righteous thumper!


ya!


GWB

Geedubya-

I sure do enjoy your pictures. You definitely can make them eye-catching, appealing and interesting. (And you have some NICE props, too!)

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
Geedubya-

I sure do enjoy your pictures. You definitely can make them eye-catching, appealing and interesting. (And you have some NICE props, too!)

Not to sound maudlin, but the pix you published when I first came on the forum had a lot to do with my upgrading of equipment and settings of my photos.

ya!

GWB

Bobby T,

I agree GW has style.

Peggy and I wrestled a 190 Lbs. hog into the back of the mule on night. Damn big enough for us old folks! I ordered a "Load Lifter" for my mule. Getting too old to haul all that dead weight.
I believe the article!
I've been to two Feral Hog seminars. 2.6 million and expecting almost that same number of live births this year in Texas. They are a pestilence!They have raised the fecal chloroform level in almost every body of water they come in contact with!

Works for me!






ya!


GWB