"A generous eye box is another important feature of VX-7 scopes. Leupold scopes are generally superior to most other brands in eye position latitude, and VX-7 scopes are the best yet. They have a larger, more forgiving eyebox at all magnifications than other premium scopes."

Is this true? Many other scopes, especially the German/Austrian ones, claim the same !!!

Kahles is just one of them, saying they have given a lot of attention to the eyebox for the best view.
Here is a quote ... "Especially large ocular, optimised for the best viewing comfort and quick target aquisition"

The new Nikon people claim a similar position with their new Monarch scope.
Here is what they say ... "The Monarch’s massive ocular lens also delivers both a large high-resolution sight picture and the maximum field of view corresponding to each power setting. As an additional convenience feature, Nikon has placed rear-facing magnification indicators on the zoom control and included a quick-focus eyepiece on the new Monarch Eye Box."

The other aspect is that when the ocular eyepiece becomes to big or bulky, low scope mounting is impaired, as the bolt handle will touch the scope and so the scope has to be raised higher and this could be a negative.

Example:

VX3 3.5-10x40mm has a eyepiece diameter of 1.6" (40.64mm) & eyepiece length of 3.1" (78.74mm)

The VX-7 2.5-10x45mm has a eyepiece diameter of 1.7" (43.18mm) & eyepiece length of 3.4" (86.36mm)

The Kahles CT 3-9x42mm has a eyepiece diameter of 1.69" (42.93mm) & eyepiece length of 3.5" (88.90mm)

The S&B Summit 2.5-10x40mm has a eyepiece diameter of 1.69" (42.93mm) & eyepiece length of 3.83" (98.70mm)

The new Nikon Monarch 2.5-10x42 has a eyepiece diameter of 1.73" (44.00mm).

The ZEISS Victory Diavari 2.5 - 10 x 42 T has a eyepiece diameter 40.0mm.

I am not so sure that lateral eye movement has just to do with "size" of the eyepiece glass and the FOV that is given. There are also things like the the view one gets, as some scope give the impression of looking through a tunnel. Older Leupold scopes were very sensitive to lateral eye movement in comparison with the Kahles scope for example.

Let us hear some opinions.

Warrior

No manufacturer is defining clearly what is really meant with 'eyebox' whilst a few posters make reference to the term 'eyebox' but do not describe in detail what the meant either.

The best reference I have seen to date is this one by Nikon .... "Nikon's New Eyebox design features a huge ocular that provides a 4 time magnification range and 4" constant eye relief without sacrificing FOV"

In scope design their are conflicting goals that must be balanced, for example; a longer eye relief often robs FOV, and both are important. German scopes more often than not have shorter eye relief but better FOV than the most American scopes. A constant eye relief, such as on the Conquest, is also better as opposed to where one has to move his eye position by an inch between a low and high magnification such as the Leupold.

I also saw reference on a site to the fact that the the view through the 3-9x40 Conquest is better than the bigger 4.5-14x 44 Conquest as it does not look like one is looking through a pipe. I have the 3-9x40mm and it looks fine, but I am at a loss to explain why its bigger brother must have this problem.

I have experienced for example that the Lynx scope that is marketed here in SA, provideds more lateral eye latitude than the Leupold VX-III (not the new VX-3 as I have not done that test yet), and yet many claim that the Leupold is superior in this regard over most scopes.

The best view that I have seen so far between a Leupold, Conquest, Bushnell, Lynx and a Kahles scope was the Kahles by far. The Kahles looks so natural and its edge to edge clarity is also superior over all of them. I thought that the Conquest might give the Kahles a run for its money, but it is not in the same class unfortunately. Also the FOV of the Kahles is one of the best:

Conquest 3-9x40 ..... FOV = 11.01 Ft @ 100 yds (@ 9x)
Kahles 3-9x42 .......... FOV = 13.00 Ft @ 100 yds (@ 9x)

Also unlike German scopes, the Leupold's maginfication is not always spot on - for example the actual Magnification on a VX-23-9x40 is ....... 3.3(@3x) 8.6(@9x)

Three more examples on the 4x erector system:

Leupold VX-7 2.5-10x45mm ................ FOV @ 100 yds (ft): 38.1(@ 2.50x), 10.2(@ 10x)
The new Nikon Monarch 2.5-10x42 ..... FOV @ 100 yds (ft): 40.3(@ 2.50x), 10.1(@ 10x)
The S&B Summit 2.5-10x40mm ............ FOV @ 100 yds (ft): 40.4(@ 2.50x), 12.3(@ 10x)

Warrior

* VX3 3.5-10x40mm ........................................ eye relief of 4.6" (3.5x), 3.6"(10x)
* The VX-7 2.5-10x45mm ................................ eye relief of 4.5" (2.5x), 3.8"(10x)
* The Conquest 3-9x40 mm ............................. eye relief of 4.0"
* The Kahles CT 3-9x42mm ............................. eye relief of 3.54"
* The S&B Summit 2.5-10x40mm ..................... eye relief of 3.93"
* The new Nikon Monarch 2.5-10x42 ............... eye relief of 4.0" (2.5x), 3.8"(10x)
* The ZEISS Victory Diavari 2.5 - 10 x 42 T ...... eye relief of 3.54"

Warrior

Take them all into the field. Have a representative sample of each of the manufacturers offerings. Leupold may need to grab onto Obama's promisings!! Clarity? They can be beaten.........Zeiss, Swarovski, Leica, Pentax, Weaver, NIKON!!!!!! How'd that one strike you?????????!!! Cheap old Japanese optics!!! S.O.B.!!! "I just spent $700.00 on a scope that is no better.......actually not as good as a scope, same power, same objective that I could have gotten for $350.00!!! Been dialing them up and down for years!! Been showing people the difference for years!! Been busting vermin for years!! And bought a couple more rifles with the leftover $$ How dead is dead!!!?????????????????? I guess I coulda used Trashcos but in the words of Clint Eastwood.........." A man's gotta know his limitations!!!" GHD....................bottom line is............quality glass is a given for varminting and long range shooting!! Leupold, Weaver, Zeiss, Bushnell(Elite series) NIKON...........they all offer better glass than the rifles most will sit on are capable of!! Not to mention the operators of said rifles!! .................I will never forget the statement from a custom rifle builder to me(about the time that folks started advertising, "guaranteed under 1" groups at 100 yards.)............he said to me, "Charlie, I don'tknow how good that man can shoot!! I know my rifle and I know my barrel. But I don't know that guy!! Accuracy is a mix of differnt things. But quality glass is a finite member of the eqaution. And if somebody here can show me a more reasonably priced, OPTICALLY SUPERIOR rifle scope than those offered by NIKON, I am interested! GHD

quote:

And if somebody here can show me a more reasonably priced, OPTICALLY SUPERIOR rifle scope than those offered by NIKON, I am interested!

Nikon seems to have a winner here with its new Monarch scope - good reviews are seen everywhere. The only scope in the same price bracket is the Conquest - the new VX-3 has been upgraded as well, but it is priced much higher. Before the new Monarch was out, the Conquest was the hot ticket at that price level; now that the new Monarch is out, it may just have leap-frogged the Conquest. I should get to see the new Monarch myself within the next 6 weeks with my next trip to Cape Town.

Is there anyone out there that has already done this comparison?

Warrior

PS - Another 2 opinions on the Conquest ...

By Kiwi042 from Atlanta

"By far the best scope on the market. I owned several Leupold VX-L's but after sitting with a friend and comparing scopes at dusk the Conquest far out performed the Leupold. I sold all my VX-L's and replaced them with the Conquest scopes, and they were less expensive. You won't be dissapointed."

By Dan15219 from Pittsburgh

"I have been a loyal Leupold scope buyer for many years. I own at least a dozen on a multitude of calibers and they are, without question, outstanding scopes. However, I bought a Browning x-bolt hunter in 7mm-08 this year and decided to try a Zeiss scope. Night and day compared to my other scopes, including the pricey VX-IIIs, which I have two of. The clarity of the Zeiss lense is just incredible and worth every penny. Don't trust my opinion. Go to the gun shop and look through both side by side."

From Leupold .... this is what they have to say about ....

A Generous Eyebox

"The wide, generous eyebox of the VX-7™ series makes it faster and easier to get your eye behind the riflescope and achieve a full, clear sight picture than ever before. Setting up longer shots, you’ll appreciate the flexibility the VX-7 affords, and in big game, close-up situations, the quick target acquisition will be the difference maker. Even at high power, the longer eye relief and more forgiving eyebox of the VX-7 gives you incredible latitude and a full sight picture, much more than you’ll find in other premium optics, including fine European riflescopes. To determine the maximum area in which the eye can be placed while maintaining a full sight picture, we use four separate measurements at the riflescope’s highest and lowest magnification settings."

The VX-7 used to sell for $1,300 and now $999.
Judging from the report below, not every one is so impressed with the VX-7:-

"I have two problems with VX-7.

- One is the changing eyerelief which I do not like too much (personal preference).
- Another is the comparatively narrow field of view.

VX-7 is kinda looking for identity in a price range that offers some very steep competition.
Here are some examples.

If I am looking for the best quality for the money in a hunting scope, I will probably go for a 3-9x40 Conquest for $400.

If I am looking for the most versatility out of a single scope, I will go for Bushnell Elite 6500 2.5-16x42.

If I want the best optical performance for less than $1000, I will go for IOR's hunting scopes: 2.5-10x42 or 4-14x50. Both are well-proven and sturdy designs."

koshkin

Chanting: Warrior bought a Conquest, Warrior bought a Conquest.

u have tried to give the vx-7 the benefit of the doubt but first hand comparisons with S&B and zeiss diavari made me see it was not as good

"Well I looked hard at the VX-7 and decided against it. It is a beautiful scope and the glass was crystal clear and slightly brighter and with more contrast than my Zeiss Conquest at low light. But the scope is too heavy for my rifle and application (deer hunting with a lot of walking). I would need to use the intermediate base and rings which would have put a 19 ounce scope even higher on my Browning X bolt .270 Win. I also believe some of the weight in the VX-7 is probably due to Leupold's desire to make this a rugged scope for possibly higher caliber rifles and my .270 Win just isn't that big of a recoiler. Long story short is the VX-7 is a beautiful and worthy scope just not the right scope for my rifle at this time. Just my opinion."

bhbdvm
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"The VX-7 is a good scope I believe they use similar glass in the new VX3. Leupold has an exclusive policy with the VX-7 if you have a problem they send you a scope while your scope is being worked on. So there is no down time waiting for a repaird scope. Just buy the Zeiss and forget the VX-7."

Randall45
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VX-7 Price: Used to be $1400, now being discounted at $999

Conquest Price: $400 (still 40% of the VX-7 price - good value for money !!!)

Warrior

the VX-7 is a good scope but not comparable to those in its price class. It should sell for 600-700 dollars

After reading this site for a couple months, now I'm even considering buying a Zeiss. What's funny is I only know one guy who has Zeiss scopes on his guns; and this guy just bought one of those Divaris too. By the same token, I know hundreds who only have Leupolds on their guns; maybe we are living in the past.

I was in Fairbanks last week on our first supply run in. Stopped at sportsmans and compared a 900 dollar leupold with a 300 dollar nikon monarch; pretty close actually.

buy a zeiss 2.5-10x42

you wont be disappointed

research it

As I said in another post,I've owned what seems like every brand of scope out there even leupold and as for swarovski, I consider them the best but cost to much.All 27 of my guns now wear zeiss, the best scopes and glass for the money I think, with nikon monarch running a close second.

In my opinion the VX-7 is Leupold's attempt to get into the premium scope market by adding quality to their product line. I frankly am impressed by the resolution and optical fidelity I see in those scopes, which optically compare to those that I am currently using as shown below. However, while Loopy has made improvements in optical quality, structure still has some way to go.

Those that push for lower price and can live with commercial quality optics have many home in the current market with products from Japan and China.

I'll be the devils advocate on this. I own 2 VX-7's, and I will say the optical quality is not the same as my Z6's--but it is very good--much better than my bushnell 4200 or Nikon that I have. The eye releif is longer, and the outside finish of the scope is rock hard. Leupold customer service is the best in the business. I sent a pair of Leica binos that I had off to be fixed, I got them back 5 months later. I sent a Leupold 3X that I'd had for 10years (I was not the first owner) repaired for the shipping cost--beat that! Leupold is made in America (or as close to MIA as can be had) in this time when people are looking for jobs and America is struggling I'll give my money to an American company when I can.

Right now I count I own 2 Zeiss Davari, 4 Zeiss conquest scopes, 4 Swaro Z6's, 2 swaro PH's, 1 Nightforce, 2 VX-7's, 6 VX-III's, 1 Bushnell elite 6500, 1 Bushnell elite 4200, and 1 Nikon monarch. I like all of them. I can say that the best clear sharp image comes from the top line German scopes, but heck the VX-7 are MORE than clear enough, hold zero, tough as nails, have the best customer service in the business, and are made right here in the USA. I chose to spend more time shooting stuff than looking thru my scopes wondering if one is a little sharper, or chrisp"er" than the other.

Off my soap box for now,

Ed

Ad copy from a scope manufacturer, any scope manufacturer, is useless in evaluating scopes. Their specs are almost totally a fiction. Only "in the flesh" comparisons will tell you much about a scope's features and performance.

As to "eyebox", yes, a larger ocular lens, up to a point, helps enlarge the "eyebox" (I wish we had a better term to describe the fore-aft and side-to-side location parameters from which the eye can acquire the entire sight picture!) However, a larger ocular lens also limits the mounting options of the scope as well as adding weight. Slightly reducing the FOV is a more effective and practical method of enlarging the "EB". In my opinion, the best optical trade-off is one that sacrifices a bit of FOV for easy sight picture acquistion -- after all, no matter how wide the FOV is, it is useless if you can't see anything.

I would agree that spending double or triple the money for a VX-7 as compared to a Conquest or VX-3 (or even VX-II for that matter) is a foolish waste of money. I have recently observed animals falling dead from gunshot wounds even though the image of those animals was only seen through a 30 year-old Weaver K-3. A late model Leupold, Zeiss, or even a Filipino Burris will allow you to see well enough for almost any hunting situation. Certain features of each scope may be more important to individual shooters than other features.

quote:

Originally posted by 505ED:
I can say that the best clear sharp image comes from the top line German scopes, but heck the VX-7 are MORE than clear enough, hold zero, tough as nails, have the best customer service in the business, and are made right here in the USA. I chose to spend more time shooting stuff than looking thru my scopes wondering if one is a little sharper, or chrisp"er" than the other.

Ed

I'm with you 100%, Ed.

My VX-7 1.5-6x variable gives me all that I expected it to give in terms of finish, clarity, eye relief, etc.

Of course, I am especially pleased, since I bought my VX-7 for half the retail price.

After I bought it, I had the reticle changed to a German No. 4 and Leupold customer service performed that job in three business days, door to door.

I think the Germans and the Austrians are tops as far as their glass goes, and I do prefer them.

But Leupold is close enough behind them that, for hunting applications, it hardly matters.

quote:

The VX-7 used to sell for $1,300 and now $999.

At half the price ($650) the VX-7 has to be a good deal - being the top of Leupold's line. Most people decide on value for money and at this level it is a bumper deal.

Warrior

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DMCI*:

" .... while Loopy has made improvements in optical quality, structure still has some way to go".

I noticed your comment about "structure" that does not seem to be up to a desired standard. In this regard I wish to publish a similar comment that I came across on another forum, and I was shocked to see how low Leupold rated in the recoil tolerated department despite so many other comments here on AR to the contrary about Leupold's durability. Here we go:

Topic: Multi Scope Test
Posted: March/06/2009 at 20:50

ILya, the VX-3 has made a major improvement over the VX-III. The swing in glass optically seems to stem from the targeted color changes, for lack of a better word, it's almost like "Euro Glass" in targeted coloration. In other aspects they are close to the same in clarity or image crispness. I don't feel there is big advances in that area.

I compared the VX-3 3.5-10X40 to
VX-III 3.5-10X40
Conquest 3-9X40
Sightron SIIB 3-12X42
Bushnell 4200 2.5-10X40
Leupold VX-7 2.5-10X45
Swaro Z6 1.7-10X42

Clarity/Resolution: Test, 17 line eye chart (black letters on white background) at 102 lasered yards. 6X on all scopes.

Z6-15 weak lines
Conquest 13 strong lines
SIIB 13 weak lines
VX-7 12 strong lines (I had the VX-7 @ 13 line once and could never resolve the 13th line again)
4200 12 strong lines
VX-3 12 strong lines
VX-III 10 strong lines

Note: The image size is obviously not exactly 6X on all scopes. I feel there is probably .5-.8 magnification discrepancy but, in my experience, the clearer/cleaner glass always makes the image appear larger.

Scope of test: It's hard to derive a % of clarity using this test so I've only used legible lines as a comparison.

Dawn and Dusk Resolution: I place the same chart at 98 lasered yards, the last 20+ yards being a heavily wooded dark area. This is almost impossible, I can do 3-4 scopes in an evening going back and forth but, the conditions on the next evening are never the same. I usually do 3-4 one evening and the rest the next evening if conditions are close. I then use another evening to go through all of them somewhat quickly just to verify my finding but all in the same evening. This is where the Z6 rocks the others.

Z6 14 lines
Conquest 12 weak lines
SIIB 11 strong lines
VX-7 11 strong lines
4200 10 strong lines
VX-3 10 strong lines
VX-III 8 lines

ILya, for the past 6-8 months I have been playing with other testing apparatus in between hunting.

As of now, I have designed and built a recoil simulator and have sent the patent info in for publication. I can simulate up to 260 lbs/ft of recoil, muzzle lift, reverse recoil, both for and aft recoil. Some of the scopes that I felt wouldn't impress have really impressed me. At 75 lbs/ft recoil with 2.2" of travel in 21 milliseconds. I have a Vortex Viper 3-9 that has taken over 2200 simulations and still hasn't failed. I have a 3-9 Diamondback that failed after 1500+ recoils and was fixed and returned in 9 days without question.

They will all fail, just a matter of when:

Sightron SII Big Sky 4-16X42... 1630 impacts........erector screw.. had loctite put on the screw and it's over 1200 impacts for the second time around.
Sightron SII Big Sky 3-9X42... 1260 impacts.........erector assy
SIII.............3.5-10X56...... 1571 impacts
Conquest................ 3-9X40..1056 impacts
Conquest ................4.5-14X44...996 impacts
Leupold VXII............ 2-7X33.....66 impacts.erector assy failure...Fixed and went 1077 impacts
Leupold VXIII............3.5-10X40..521 impacts
Nikon Monarch........... 3-12X42.. 336 impacts

ILya, these are a few of many scope I have broken. The nice thing about broken optics is you get a real good feel for customer service.

I got a VXL 3.5-10X50 from a friend of mine that has sent it back 3 times, parallax issues and erector that I cant get to go over 170 impacts. Leupold sent me a brand new one 2 months ago and it's back for the second time for erector issues. I would recommend against the VXL.

Haven't had a chance to put the VX-3 on there yet but will after I'm convinced my optical testing is complete, I'll recoil test it.

Just Having Fun
Rob