The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Optics Do you have a scope for reloading?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I was speaking to a man the other day about working up reloads for a rifle. He said he didn't know if his load for his rifle was accurate or not because his 3-9 was difficult to use for much more than hunting accuracy...I'm not sure if the reticle was too thick or covered up too much of the bullseye. I thought I had seen it on here where a 20x+ or so rifle scope was swapped between rifles to work up accurate reloads...then once the load was found then they would swap to their usual 2.5-8x36 or 3-9x40. Does anyone else do that? It would be a pain for some swaps since all of my rifles have different rings but it sounds like a good idea. "Let me start off with two words: Made in America" | ||
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I have always believed in working up loads for individual rifle/scope combinations. I really do not see how swapping scopes back and forth would accomplish anything as sighting in a load from the bench under pretty controlled conditions would help with a different scope under field conditions. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I shoot as frequently as I can, always with my own handloads. I'm always trying for the most accurate loads I can develop for the hunting I do. Therefore I only use the hunting scopes mounted on my rifles. I also want to keep procedures as simple as possible and swapping scopes would be a pointless waste of precious time that achieves nothing. If I wanted to shoot miniscule groups of connected holes I would probably have a specialty rifle set up and equipped with a highly tunable scope. But that's not a hunting rifle you can carry around the hills. Just get your hunting rifle / scope combo shooting consistently to 400 yards and 99% of likely hunting scenarios are covered. This is easily possible with modern rifles, scopes and reloading components. Hunting.... it's not everything, it's the only thing. | |||
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I have found that optics matter for checking accuracy. Also target shooting skills matter. Just using a hunting rifle and the scope on it only gives one the accuracy of that rifle and optic combo. Not the rifles accuracy. For hunting it may be fine but it tells little of the rifle or load accuracy. A lot of illuminated scopes have reticles are more than an Moa - how can one shoot an moa group with a reticle bigger than an Moa. I am pretty sure all the rifle guys who guarantee moa accuracy and provide a target use a high power target scope. I know I shoot much better groups with a 3-15x Leica than I got with a 3-9x Nikon prostaff. Mike | |||
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This is what I was thinking as well. If you were working up reloads or trying different factory ammunition...Wouldn't this benefit someone if they had the means to do it. I have shot a better group off of a bench with my Savage Model 10 in .308 with a 20x scope...better than most of my rifles that had 3-9's at the same time period. But if I had the 20x on the other rifles...maybe on picatinny mounts to make swapping the scope easy...You could gather better data on which loads (44.1gr vs 44.5gr...etc) were more accurate. I know my Cooper rifle was shot off sandbags with a 36x scope indoors for the test target. I didn't want the gentleman I was speaking to think that a 3"-5" group (@ 100y) with his reloads was an acceptable stopping point. As a suggestion I would think if he could work up a load with a higher power rifle scope for an accurate load...then swap back to his hunting scope with that particular load then he would be in better shape for a hunt. Just picking brains...with the technology out there and the time and money we put into this hobby...I think this is something to consider. "Let me start off with two words: Made in America" | |||
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With blaser one can have 2 scopes or more per barrel. The mounts are expensive. But these can be easily swapped and maintain zero. Mike | |||
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Perhaps there is some purpose where it might make sense to intend to swap scopes, such as initial magazine reviews followed by a hunting trip - but for the recreational hunter, I can't see the point. In the case of a double rifle, changing from a long, heavy scope to a short, low-powered one could have a serious effect on the barrel regulation, because of the changing mass and balance. I am very fond of the old German #1 reticle for forest hunting. For long shots at the range it might obscure certain types of target but I can usually find a different aiming mark. It might be less precise in target shooting than fine cross-hairs etc but I can still shoot the odd five-shot group under 5mm at 25 metres over the blunt picket. | |||
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I am with you there on the German #1 reticle Sambarman  I have a Ruger M77 MKII in 308 Win, that I use as a walkabout rifle when I feel for a spot and stalk for roe bucks early in the season. On that rifle there is a Docter ZF 6x42 -M- scope with the #1 reticle. Arild Iversen. | |||
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Might be easier for folks to accept the concept of "Different Strokes For Different Folks". Not everyone that hunts reloads/not everyone that reloads hunts. To some folks perfection is the tightest group they can achieve with their rifle/scope/ammo set-up. For others, perfection is a one shot kill at reasaonable ranges. I work with my handloads/reloads till I find the one the rifle I am loading for works best and then I stop. I am more impressed with dead critters than little holes in paper. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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When I test loads I use a square as an aiming point. I put the vertical line on the left side of the square and the horizontal on the bottom; it doesn't really matter what power scope I am using, this is a very precise way of aiming. Low power scope = bigger square. | |||
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A 3-9 variable (at least a good one) will provide all of the target resolution one could possibly need at 100 yards for a hunting-type rifle. Aiming error due to scope magnification will be less than a third the diameter of a .30 caliber bullet at that range. Do you think you can really differentiate between loads which group within 0.1 inch of one another? That's the difference in a change of wind speed or direction of less than 2 mph. | |||
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I have never found the power of a scope to have any effect on my shooting one way or the other at the 100, 200 or 300 yard target off a bench rest..Perhaps a tad at 300 but that could be me or other problems, but for hunting it was of no significance...I can check the accuracy of any rifle with any good scope.. I suggest that those who believe otherwise take a 3x9 or larger variable and shoot groups with it at each setting, for some it gets a wake up, for some its a wreck, for others confusing..its worth a try..Ive done it many times and nothing changes one way or the other. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Yes, and a good big square can be great for peep sights, too, held above a bead. When the front sight is a post, I like a big, round target with strips of black gaffer tape below it on each side, with the upper edges of the tape aligned horizontally with the bottom of the circle. The strips of tape help to prevent cant and remind you exactly where to put the top of the post. A scope might improve the result a little but there's not much in it when the light is good. | |||
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We install the relevant scope on the rifle in question, and develop loads for it that way. Years ago I got a Springfield M1A Match rifle. I said I will develop a load for it, and a friend started laughing, as the rifle had no scope, but a peep sight. A few days later, I fired 5 shots in front of him at 100 yards, with the peep sight. He could not believe it! All 5 shots were in one ragged hole. | |||
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I will sometimes use an older Zeiss 5x15 Diavari for load development on certain guns that I expect to shoot well. Obviously I never did that with big bore guns but it is helpful realizing the potential of a gun that is flatter shooting. In all honesty I don’t know if it is beneficial or not. Just a habit I’ve developed through the years. When we were doing a lot of silhouette shooting we would determine the group size potential of the rifle with a 36 power scope and then have a dot reticle the size of the group installed in the scope to be used. Shooters are nuts! | |||
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That's a great idea, Thanks! "Let me start off with two words: Made in America" | |||
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Yes the target probably makes more difference than scope power IMO...A squard or a square turned corners up gives a good picture..I make a note on tests as to what scope I used and over the years decided it made no difference at 100 and 200 yards, a little at 300 but not enough to botherme.. Incidently some of the longest game shots Ive made were with 3 and 4 power scoped..probably because I use them more, but they don't jump around like a 10 or 12, especially off hand.. Saturday Tv hunting shows show folks shooting huge large X scopes at 100 yard feeders, waiting for perfect broadside shots, they seem to be successful..Seems downright stupid to me but to each his own.. Big scopes make some folks grab at the trigger when the magnified wiggle lets the cross hair float by the target. that is bothersome to me.. But to each his own, use what works for you. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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There's a reason that benchrest shooters use high power 36x, 48x, etc. scopes and not 4 power scopes. You need to put the crosshairs on the exact same spot to shoot tiny bughole groups. So something like a 6 x 18 might be a nice compromise. Sight in with 18x and power down if that's what you need later. Best of both worlds. Give me a home where the buffalo roam and I'll show you a house full of buffalo shit. | |||
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If I have a lower power scope/sight or whatever, I will just get a little closer for load development. Same effect without swapping scopes. AK-47 The only Communist Idea that Liberals don't like. | |||
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As I get older, now in seventies; I use lower power and more compact scopes. In Africa I don't have shot opportunities beyond 250 yards so a 6 power maximum scope works fine, has a larger field of view, and doesn't magnify the "wobbles" as much as a higher powered scope. At 6 power I can consistently shoot 1" groups at 100 yards off the bench using a target that matches the scope as has been previously noted. What I do find is the clarity of the optics is critical. | |||
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Yes Im sure there is a place for 36X and up on the target ranges, but that place is foreign to me...I will shot my .270 at 100 yards with my 2.5X Leupold Alaskan against any combo or rifle. won a ton of turkeys hams and ribs at turkey shoots competing against some massive scopes listened to the whining, to start with its mostly about the gun not the scope. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Optics Do you have a scope for reloading?
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