Hello Members: Has anyone tried to mount their scopes using epoxy as a bedding material between the scope and the rings? This is an alternate method to lapping rings and is discussed in an article posted on varminthunters.com:

http://www.varminthunters.com/tech/scopebedding.html

I am preparing to mount a scope on a Ruger 77VT and Burris Signature Rings aren't available for Rugers.

Just wondering if anyone has tried this method and what you think of the idea. Thanks in advance.

Yes, I have done that on several scopes and am a believer in it.

You can lap rings all you want to and end up with rings that are a perfect fit for the lapping tool but not for your scope.

Bedding the scope to the rings, IMO, gives you a PERFECT bearing and clamping surface that will distribute the holding forces over an equal area of the tube.

None of my long guns can be classified as extreme kickers, and I've never found a single instance in which there was a need for bedding scope rings with epoxy or any other similar material.

Make certain to give proper attention to detail in the mounting process, and you'll generally avoid any potential problems. But again, the heavy kickers are another ballgame, and to that end, I can see where such applications may be warranted.

In my shooting, though, it would amount to nothing more than a waste of time.

Ruger rings look a little rough, but they usually don't require lapping unless you are in the 416 rigby range. The process doesn't seem to be to difficult, but rings are a pretty close in diameter to the scope. I can't imagine there being much of a void for the epoxy to fill. This seems more like a good cure for a lap job gone wrong.

If you are worried, take a look at the leupold rings, they have small grooves which will crush when tightned rather than pinching the scope, making lapping less necessary. They make a set for the M77 action and they are cmopetively priced.

John

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
None of my long guns can be classified as extreme kickers, and I've never found a single instance in which there was a need for bedding scope rings with epoxy or any other similar material.

Make certain to give proper attention to detail in the mounting process, and you'll generally avoid any potential problems. But again, the heavy kickers are another ballgame, and to that end, I can see where such applications may be warranted.

In my shooting, though, it would amount to nothing more than a waste of time.

Bobby,

It’s got nothing to do with recoil, the idea is the same as receiver bedding...to get a perfect glove-like fit between the scope tube and the rings so the clamping/holding force of the rings is evenly distributed on the tube.

I don’t own any heavy kickers at all but I do this to prevent any unnecessary/uneven stress on the scope tube in the rings.

I've been wrapping the scope tube with 2 or 3 layers of teflon thread sealing tape under my rings for a couple of years . Protects the tube from scratches and stops scope slippage too . The tape compresses under the rings and actually bonds to the tube if left for awhile . Easy to apply and easy to get off .
Works for me .

Put some inletting white on your rings and see how well your rings mate to your scope when things are tightened down, then make up your own mind if you think the mating/bearing surface is sufficient for your needs.

Lapping rings aligns the inside of the rings to each other and mates the inside of the rings to the lap...NOT to the scope tube.

I put epoxy between the mount and the receiver with the screws loose, and then align the mounts. When the epoxy is hard, I tighten the mounts.

I do this with not just sporterized rifles, but recently with a new Marlin factory sporting rifle that came with the mounts in the box.

That way I can move scope and rings from rifle to rifle and never lap rings and never bend the scope.

I’m a big believer in doing anything and everything to prevent stressing and binding a rifle scope when it gets mounted on a rifle, no matter what the caliber and no matter how much recoil it is going to be subjected to.

Scope rings can apply allot of force to a scope tube when the are tightened down and the better the fit between the tube and the rings the better those forces will be distrbuted.

I would lap the Ruger rings first then bed them.Most Ruger rings do not line up at all when checked with a lapping rod etc. Center your scope reticle by using v blocks and rotating-a cardboard box works well .Then clamp the stock in a padded vise -level rifle and bed your rings leaving a gap between the ring sections .A good release agent for this is Kiwi neutral shoe polish. A good idea is to break the edge of your lapped rings with a round ceramic stone after lapping them .

Do you guys actually glue the scope to the rings, or do you put a release agent on the scope tube? If you use a release agent do you take scope off the base after curing and remove the release agent? Also, I assume you only need to bed the bottom half of the rings, yes/no.

Hart

No, the scope does not become a part of the rings...so YES, I use a release agent (normally paste wax) on the scope tube and on all parts of the rings and bases except for the inside bearing surfaces of the rings where I want the epoxy to be.

I bed both upper and lower rings so I get 100% surface mating of the scope tube and the rings. I just brush a very thin layer of the epoxy into the rings and then insert the scope and tighten the rings down.

If any epoxy is squeezed out just wipe it off with Q-Tips and tooth picks just like you would when bedding a rifle.

Is this a “must do†operation...probably not. But as I said earlier, I believe that it allows a better distribution of the clamping and holding force of the rings against the scope tube and removes any high spots that might place undue spot pressure on the tube when things are tightened down.

I lap and bed every scope in it's ringbases

For lapping I use valve grinding paste and I do this to check the alignment of the rings and take away real 'high'edges on the bases

In staed of release agent I find it more comfortable to cover the scope tube with thin plastic householdfoil. This way you can never end with a glued-in scope or glue spread all over your scope. The foil can easily be scrached off after the glue has hardened.

I do not put the rings on the scope when applying the glue to the bases; I keep the scope in place with a few tieribs or rubber bands.
When the glue has hardened, I put the rings on the scope and screw them onto the bases. The thin film of glue keeps the scope in place, even without really tightening the screws!

An other method after lapping and without glueing is the use of part of a finger of a surgical glove on the scopetube. Put it on, put the rings over it, tightem them and cut off the rubber sticking out both sides of the rings and bases. The rubber protects the tube from being scratched and prevents sliding without the need of using too much torque on the screws.

reindeer,

Great tip about the surgical glove material! That stuff is nice and thin yet really strong.

I like the Surgical glove trick. That would definitely get a bite on the tube and protect it as well as aleviate small stresses.

Reindeer, ever any issues w/ the scope rings not wanting to properly fit over the latex?

Bedding is not necesary w/ several mounts on any scope as long as you use tedious mounting practices and get everything properly lined. Lapping is not even needed w/ good quality rings and proper alignment.

Most people get ring marks and uneven stress on the tube because they don't have the rings perfectly straight in the bases when they installed them. Alittle patience will get your rings straight(granted they are windage adjustable or dual dovetail).

Good Luck

Reloader

Another trick I found that works well for slippage problems is to take a small amount of powdered rosin mixed with alcohol and then “painted†on the inside of the rings. When the alcohol evaporates it leaves a nice evenly distributed layer of rosin that grabs and holds the tube very nicely. I’ve also seen guys use plain old rubber cement either brushed or sprayed on.

I also agree with the earlier comment that if your rings are properly aligned when mounted there is little need for lapping them.

As for the need of lapping:

A scoped rifle is a combination of three things,
rifle, mounts and rings, scope. These have been independently produced somewhere in the world.

To add these three at random and believe that manufacturors all work according to the same standard and allow for similar tolerances, is wishful thinking.

I have seen more than one well known factory rifle with holes that where not in perfect algniment. The same goes for rings and bases.
The advantage of lapping ringbases after mounting them on the rifle is that, by lapping away the bleuing, you see how well aligned they are and if further lapping is desirable.

Using the surgical glove material is easy and I have never had any problmes with it.

If someone lapped the rings on one of my rifles, I would take them off and throw them away.

The fit between the mount and rifle may have gaps, but that gets shimmed and glassed until the rings are aligned with each other and parallel with the bore.

The top of a Mauser never fits the bottom of a mount. If it did fit, it would probably not fit in a way to align the rings co- linear and parallel with the bore.

First I drill and tap, not with the mill, but with a fixture.

Then I put the mounts on the receiver. If the fit is too bad, I put the mounts in a fixture I made and mill until the fit is close enough.

Then I put the mounts on the rifle and the rings on the mounts and a scope in the middle of it's vertical and horizontal adjustment range in the rings.

I bore sight.

Then I shim and dam until the scope is parallel with the bore.

Then I put oil on the screws and put the mounts on the receiver loosely with wet Devcon Steel Putty epoxy between the mount and the receiver. I put the scope and rings on the mounts tightly. The scope acts as an alignment fixture for the mounts. I verify that the bore and scope align on the same target while the epoxy is setting up. I can only glass mounts during the day.

When the expoxy is hard, I remove the screws and clean the holes and screws with alcohol. I put blue Loctite® on the screws. I tighten the mount screws.

I have 100 rifles and 50 scopes.
I have Weaver mounts and rings.
Any scope can move from any rifle to any rifle and take the rings with it.
There is never a bind or a mark on the scope.
The scope always starts out on the paper.

If a set of lapped rings got into the system, it would be contaminated.