Here it is , I got my load, got my load chart formulated, went to the range to finalize as I am leaving for MT on Sat a.m. Sighted a couple shoots needed to come up 8 clicks, dialed 8 clicks POI 3" higher rather than 2". Turned down 3 clicks fired again POI is lower now by 1.5" ( 1.5" higher than 1st group) Took a few tries to get my grouping where I wanted it 2.7" high at 100. Scope is a Sightron 4.5X14 mil dot, I don't plan on dialing any adjustments I will just use the mil dot for hold over. Is this a normal occurance? I am going to send it back, but it didn't do my confidance any favors. I have had a problem befors and Sightron stood behind it, I am sure they will with this one too. These problems just happen at poor times. I think maybe I need to buy another scope. Thanks

In my experience, it is a rare hunting scope that "clicks" the amount it is supposed to. This includes Leupolds, Zeiss's, Bushnell's, Nikons, and others. The only scopes I've got that are really repeatable, are Weaver Target scopes. I'm sure there are many others but this has been my experience on the range. It's almost always kind of a hunt and peck operation.

Amen! The old El Paso Weaver's had marginal optics, were heavy, and were somewhat obsolete in design, but their adjustments were always the closest to "advertised" of any scope made. Click 4 clicks, and the center of your hundred yard group would move an inch.

quote:

Originally posted by chain:
Here it is , I got my load, got my load chart formulated, went to the range to finalize as I am leaving for MT on Sat a.m. Sighted a couple shoots needed to come up 8 clicks, dialed 8 clicks POI 3" higher rather than 2".

What group size and total number of shots is being used to define "clicks"?

3 shot groups after 2 fouling shots. Although I don't know that the fouling shots were needed as I just left the range on Fri and didn't clean, after only 15 rds fired. I normally clean after a range session but it is a new barrel and it takes about 9 shots to start grouping well after cleaning. The 2 fouling shots were right on where I had left it on Fri.

Mr. chain.
That's interesting. I never fire fouling shots. Not for hunting or target work.

So now your saying you fired fouling shots on a fouled rifle? Was this just an habitual oversight or foul paranoia?

I think it is force of habit, I seem to have been afflicted with ADD as I get older so I try to repeat the same regime every time. I fired the two shots to ascertain evrything was still hunkey dorey and to check the wind. The last loads I shot at the range a few days prior were some loads I tried with some new dies. I just wanted to make sure the tried and true load still was good. Being new at this I need to consistantly re inforce to myself that everything is well.

JAL:

I ALWAYS fire fouling shots and normally don't clean a hunting rifle until after the season is over or until I've shot at least 12 to 20 rounds through it. I'm sure your experience is diffferent, but my rifles always seen to shoot a different POI for the first shot or two through a clean barrel. Usually high and to the right. Most of the time it is not enough to miss a deer at reasonable ranges, true, but I think a big factor in good shooting is confidence and it give me confidence when I KNOW my rifle is shooting where I expect it to be shooting. YMMV.

I have found that after I clean my rifle at a range session. It takes about 6 shots to straighten out. The third group of three is good. I haven't cleaned since the last 18 rds.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
In my experience, it is a rare hunting scope that "clicks" the amount it is supposed to. This includes Leupolds, Zeiss's, Bushnell's, Nikons, and others. The only scopes I've got that are really repeatable, are Weaver Target scopes. I'm sure there are many others but this has been my experience on the range. It's almost always kind of a hunt and peck operation.

I completely disagree. I shoot at least once a week at ranges to 850 yards, but usually 750 or less. Leupolds, Bushnell Elites, and Sightrons are all very reliable. Weavers were great as well, but to say scopes don't move the reticle as advertised is just plain bunk IMO. BTW, I click for wind and elevation. What do you think silhouette shooters do Gato? Holdover using mil-dots???

Most of the S&B's I had were not 100% as far as repeatability...........

The BEST scope for this I've found is the Nightforce NXS.

I'll always set a rifle up for zero from a COLD fouled barrel.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
true, but I think a big factor in good shooting is confidence and it give me confidence when I KNOW my rifle is shooting where I expect it to be shooting. YMMV.

Depends how you shoot and what with I suppose.
I was under the impression you characters got a ticket for only one deer a season? And one shot per deer too?

Well I don't have much confidence for various reasons, but with my vermin/feral shooting I go out with a clean dry cold barrel and know where the first shot (should) go, because that's where it's sighted in. One shot is likely all I'll get.
When testing, if the next 2 to 4 don't go within a required group, that rifle is out of here. (After a suitable load is found.)

I've typed this before so it must be true.
My lightest .223 with pencil thin barrel (cheap Zustava) went to a comp./fun day at the range.
Hot day, clean cold barrel, 200yards, aimed off for the zero and wind, 10bulls in a row, barrel too hot to cook on. (Burn the steak on mate.)
And no, it's not for sale.

Same at target shooting, with varied local and imported barrels, start cold dry and clean. Maybe 30 shots later damn if they don't shoot bulls still.
I really don't know how I'd keep a barrel just crudded up nicely over my 12 month season.

Imagine telling the boys at a big competition,
"Stop the organizing, I've cleaned my rifle and I want to fire 5 or 15 shots down the range before we start".

Or get to the hunting area with a clean non rusted up barrel, let drive with a barrage and then expect to find much game around.

The few rifles I've sold as being not up to scratch, the recipients were all happy with the accuracy. Figger that out.

What does YMMV mean, is that an insult??