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| One of Us |
I'm looking to upgrade the scope on my Tikka 7 mag. Leaning toward the Leupold VX-3i 4.5-14 x 40mm with the Boone & Crockett reticle. The B&C reticle looks good because it's got the multiple tick marks to eliminate guessing at long ranges. I read that the tick marks are calibrated to calibers similar in performance to a 270 Win. 7 mag is fairly close but not identical. I believe the calibration can be adjusted however. Anyone have experience using this reticle? Any feedback on how useful the additional tick marks are with various calibers? Thanks in advance. | ||
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One of Us |
I like stadia for long range shots much better than the concept of cranking the turrets (and forgetting to wind them back). However, I have decided against large scopes for big game because their length and front bell size make them vulnerable to bumping. I had a Nikon Monarch 4-16x42 on my Tikka 270WSM but a minor bump knocked it 12MoA out of whack, causing me to miss a chamois only 120 yards away. The problem may have been partly the alloy mounts Tikka supplied with the rifle but I have since gone back to a humble Leupold VX-1 2-7 in an ancient-but-solid Hillver bridge mount. Another problem with big scopes is they mandate overt parallax adjustments, another distraction you can do without when critters are likely to take off at any moment. Big game is big - if you can't settle the aiming mark over the aorta at 6x, maybe the animal is too far away. | |||
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| One of Us |
That is my go to big game reticle, for under 600 yard shooting. I have multiple rifles wearing scopes with that reticle. I'm really partial to the VX-6 2-12x42 with the B&C. Here's the low down on it, from Leupold. https://www.boone-crockett.org...eupold.asp?area=news | |||
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| one of us |
The reference marks of the B&C reticles are calibrated for use at full magnification. Used at any lower magnification the marks will be further apart, thus creating a situation in which each mark is zeroed for some longer range than it would otherwise be. So, you need to plan on using the range reference marks only on full magnification. In most circumstances, you won't want to use 14X magnification for big game hunting. So, save the 4.5-14 for varminting, etc. and think in terms of a 3.5-10X or a 2.5-8X for a big game rifle. After all, what kind of big game is it that you can't see well enough to shoot when magnified 8 or more times? | |||
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Yes, those hash marks can be tailored to suit your particular load with just a minimal amount of math (and a little shooting to bear things out). Many people don't realize the point Stonecreek addressed: that these are calibrated at highest power and that a different magnification (in a 2nd FP scope) will produce different results. I recently had to convince a friend not to send back his Leupold because -- as he said -- it "was inconsistent on holdover when you changed power." And he said the guy behind the counter at one of the nation's larger outdoor stores where he purchased the scope assured him the magnification setting made no difference.  I rarely shot beyond 350 yards, so a reticle like the B&C is of little benefit to me. But for the guys who consistently take long shots, those sort of reticles can work wonders. Of course, you could also just go to a 1st focal plane scope and make life much easier.  Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
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I have several scopes with that reticle works well. As do mil dots and others | |||
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| one of us |
You can also minimize the error by zeroing at long range. For example, zero the 400 yard hash mark dead on at 400 yards; the errors at closer ranges will be much less. I have not bought one of these in quite some time, but mine have two white triangles, one at max magnification, and one a bit lower. My .338 Win Mag is perfect with the lower mag triangle. | |||
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I have a couple of these as well. Excellent scope, no problems at all. Looking to buy another one soon. Keep yer powder dry and yer knife sharp. | |||
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| One of Us |
Thanks fellas for all the helpful feedback. So there's no doubt that these are quality scopes and good reticles for the right application. Regarding what Stonecreek said - I know what you mean about 10x, in fact that's what I have on my Tikka right now. But with 10x magnification and the Leupold duplex reticle, anything beyond 300 yds. feels iffy (gun is zeroed at 200). I'm not looking to kill game out to 1,000 yds. like some guys do on TV, but it would be nice to feel confident out to 400. Any of you western hunters see value in the higher magnification for game up to and including elk? Thanks again. | |||
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One of Us |
The "calibration" cannot be adjusted. The stadia marks are fixed and they are set for 200, 300, 400 450, and 500 for X set of cartridges. For Y set of cartridges they are set for 300, 400, 500, 550, and 600. Remember it is for a set of cartridges so the zero won't be perfect but certainly within your holding ability. I use one and they are within =/- 2 inches for my gun out to 450 yards. At 500 yards it is hard to say because I am likely inducing too much shooter error. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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| one of us |
That's true, but they can be made to work for cartridges that do not fit those parameters, too. Instead of 300, 400, 500 yards, etc., some slower cartridges may be able to benefit from something like a 175, 225 and 250 yard point of impact using a 100 yard zero. Where there's a will, there's a way with a creative and calculating shooter. Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
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| One of Us |
Yes, absolutely. I did that very thing for 4x12 power one I have on a 308 win. IIRC, it worked out to 200, 280, 350 Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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| one of us |
All one needs to do is be able to do and use math. But then math is a foreign to some. | |||
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| one of us |
I think you'll find that the breadbasket on an elk looks pretty big at 400 yards when magnified 10 times. In fact, I always carry my variable scope set around 5x and don't crank it up unless the target is 200 or more yards away. With a B&C reticle you'll have ample confidence in your aiming point -- as long as you have confidence in your range estimation. A 400 yard elk looks a lot closer than a 400 yard mule deer, which looks closer than a 400 yard pronghorn. As to those "hunters" on TV shooting game at 1000 yards, well, you always see them aiming carefully, hear a shot, then see the animal drop. But I saw one such episode where the camera on the shooter inadvertently pulled back enough that you could see the pile of spent brass on the ground next to the prone shooter. He had fired numerous shots at the animal before finally connecting on the one shot that wasn't edited out of the sequence. It made me chuckle, and also a little sick, at the same time. | |||
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| one of us |
I don't estimate any more. I pick up my Laser range finder and can till with in a yard how far away the target is. A large part of the battle of hitting a far away target is knowing the range. That has been taken care of. The 2nd part is knowing how much of hold over to one needs. Range card. The third is how to know how much of hold over you have, mutable reticles. The fourth is wind IMHO the hardest of the four. To get good at it one has to shoot in windy conditions. Unlike gravity wind is highly variable. | |||
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| one of us |
Right! Wind is by far the most difficult factor to compensate for when shooting at longer distances. That's why people shouldn't be fooled into thinking that a range-compensating scope will solve their long range shooting challenges. | |||
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| One of Us |
Yes, BS is the stock in trade of TV documentaries, esp. those on the commercial channels. Though the shooting shows here are able to show greatly magnified shots of the game before shooting, that view is never shown at the shot. All you get is the shooter touching off and his companion saying Good shot! or words to that effect. | |||
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| One of Us |
I used the same 4.5-14 on my 30-378 WBY out to 600 yds with the marking and it worked great but I put a NF 22 on when I found how accurate the gun was. You ll have to calculate the impact point for the various markings and then field check. My .505 Gibbs is very accurate so I put the scope on it. The lowest marking takes me out to 300 yds so you can use it with any rifle. | |||
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| one of us |
Are you saying you they don't show the "kill shot?" Is that their choice or a gov't requirement? | |||
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| One of Us |
It is probably a government requirement in regard to humans but I've never heard it is applied to hunting. In the past I've seen TV docos show goats and kangaroos shot in culling - but always instant kills. | |||
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| one of us |
Few people realize that in the U.S. FCC regulations will not permit ads for alcoholic beverages to show a person actually drinking the beverage. All is not prudishness, however: Our local daily newspaper printed the word "shit" today. | |||
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| One of Us |
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| One of Us |
One other thing that I would add is that there are actually two settings on the power selector ring. The large triangle is at the highest power which is the standard ranges for the tick marks. There is a smaller triangle which is slightly below full power and Leupold provides the moa drop for the tick marks at that setting. So you actually have two "built in" distance values. Physical page 7 of this manual. https://cdnp.leupold.com/produ...mtime=20170626163401 Here is the stock chart, I made up for my 300 wsm.  Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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One of Us |
I have one for sale. PM sent. | |||
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| One of Us |
Mike_Dettorre, thank you for providing this information. EXTREMELY helpful to read the booklet you linked. Things make a lot more sense now. Tom Mason, I will check my PMs shortly. Thanks. | |||
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| One of Us |
For those of you who have a Ballistic reticle of any kind and access to a printer that takes legal paper and want these, send me a PM with your email. They are handy for determining how close your load is to the stated standard for the reticle.     Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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one of us |
Don't know if you're purchased a scope yet. If not, you might also consider Leupold's CDS. I snagged a 4.5-14 a while back and finally got around to sending them my load information. About five weeks later they sent me a custom dial calibrated to my load. On the first outing, I zeroed the rifle at 200 yards (my requested starting point), then adjusted with the dial to confirm at 300 and 400 yards. Hits at those ranges were on target within my ability to hold steady using just the rifle's bipod. Then, for kicks and grins, I had another guy at the range watch a softball-sized rock at the 600-yard target. I spun my new CDS dial to 600, snuggled in against the stock, and tried my best to make a clean shot. Damned if I didn't kill that rock on the first shot! I'm not a long distance shooter, so I know it wasn't my ability. Maybe it was simple luck, but I'd say that dial darn sure got me close enough to be lucky! I don't see myself taking a 600-yard shot at game, it's not my usual style, but it's nice to know the equipment is capable, even if I'm not..._____________________ A successful man is one who earns more money than his wife can spend. | |||
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