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Having hunted for years on most continents I have yet to come across a better reticle than the standard duplex in my scopes, I tried the others especially the thick German varity, and about all they do is cover up part of the target, and not any better in the dark timber or open plains as far as I can tell or culling at night for that matter.. Just my opinion, no requirement to agree, but conversation and opinnions would be interesting.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | ||
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Generally, I think you're right, Ray. The German No 1 reticle does have a place in dark forest where no hold-over is ever likely, though. Within my concepts of fair chase, when you can't see that blunt picket, it's time to go home. | |||
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I have several Leupold scopes with the duplex reticle, but I have come to prefer the German no. 4 reticle. | |||
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Alec, And for what reason? I know they are popular on big bores these days. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I really hesitate to take late evening shots, if your off a tad, it gets dark on you and by morning the Lions are fat and burping..In the US Ive seen more animals lost as it got dark and overnight snow covers all, or rain or a cornucopia of whys and wherfores come into play..Morning shots prevail in my scheme of things, Ive got all day to track, and track, and track in some cases. Just my two bits. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I like the German no 4. I think it frames the target better and draws your eye in. The duplex style is good but less definate than the No 4. This also acts a good range finder - on mine its 140 cm at 100m. | |||
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I've never felt at a disadvantage using Leupold duplex reticles. I do like the old Weaver post for running jack rabbits. Swift, Silent, & Friendly | |||
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Yes, my preference too. I have the 4A reticle in a Swarovski 3-9x36 scope, and it is a better reticle (to my eyes anyway) than the Leupold duplex. ______________________________ The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. - Bertrand Russell | |||
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My favorite as well the swaro 4A | |||
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Leupold Dot. A tapering crosshair to a dot. Most natural method to lay a single point on a target. Also better for a moving target. I have a Meopta R2 with a German #4dot. I like it as well | |||
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For Minnesota woods and walking the standard duplex is tough to beat. I have become fond of a few of the different hashed reticles for western hunting with certain calibers. With practice and a range finder they can make very quick work of shooting problems past zero without dialing. The same can be done with the duplex to a less precise degree. If I had to live with just one it would be the Leupold post and duplex, their version of the German #4 in the second focal plane. | |||
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Being old school, I prefer reticles in the first focal plane, especially if the reticle is the only thing that moves when you turn the turret screws. But even with image-movement the reticle only works well as a range finder when in the first focal plane. Scopes with stadia are best with a reticle in the 'first' focal plane, too, and I curse the BDC in my SFP Nikon 4-16x because it only makes sense at 16x. Also, SFP scopes are the most likely to change zero at different magnifications, because the power scroll that moves the erector lenses is in front of the reticle and any slop there will cause trouble. FFP reticles, on the other hand, are seen through the erector tube as one with the target (as long as parallax doesn't arise). | |||
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Yes, there are a lot of advantages to the fFP. I am not a fan of Nikons BDC or erector reliability either. I do like Leupolds Boone and Crockett and Varmint hunters and a couple of Vortexes. I only rely on the Hashes at full magnification. If it is far enough for me to need the hashes, it is far enough to take the time to set up for a shot on full magnification. My only 2 FFP scopes are Swarovski 1.5-6x42 and Zeiss 2.5-10x50. They are used a lot in the woods and at night hunting fox, although my Brother-in-law used the 1.5-6 on my .260 to kill his South Dakota deer this year at 356 yards. I am just used to a smaller finer reticle even if it is a busier one. Some of the hi power Front focal variables these days have reticles you can barely see on the low end. | |||
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I agree; I shoot a deer every year in MN and have yet to shoot one past 150 yards, and it has been probably 30 years since I shot one past 100. Almost all are less than 50. | |||
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I've become partial to the Leupold LR Duplex, which is simply a Duplex with the bottom thick section shortened and two dots placed one above the other below the crosshair intersection. The two dots represent the hold-over for 300 and 400 yards with the top of the post representing 500 yards. This assumes a zero of 200 yards and the trajectory of most longer-range cartridges (a 130 grain .270 or a 180 grain .300 magnum, for example). The two small dots don't seem to clutter the sight picture the way some "long range" reticles do, so the Duplex still works pretty much the same way for quicker, closer shots. The system is totally unnecessary where your shots are anticipated to be 250 yards or under, but when hunting the wide-open of West Texas or mountainside meadows of Colorado, the LR Duplex can come in handy. I also like it for colony varmints like prairie dogs -- although the Long Range Varmint reticle is a little better there since the dots on the LR Duplex may be just a little coarse for a 400 yard prairie dog. I never have known where you were supposed to aim with one of those Teutonic fence pickets in the bottom half of your sight picture -- especially when they terminate ABOVE the crosshair like the old Weavers. I guess at distances where you might as well shoot from the hip it doesn't make much difference. | |||
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That's true, Quintus. That's why I like reticles where the outer bars come in close to the centre. Then, when you turn the power right down for close shots, seeing the fine wires hardly matters.
Yeah, I like the sound of that reticle - much better than winding knobs for a long shot. And any shot too far to line up on the lower bar should be considered beyond sporting range - even if you can hit it by use of range finders and other modern decadences. I've somethimes wondered about the old flat-topped tapered post with a horizontal wire just below the top. Though Weaver sometimes used spider webs for their 'cross hairs', I've assumed the horizontal wire with the flat-topped post was there to add strength - to have it right at the top might sound more logical but could possibly make for some lateral indecision or difficulty in suspension. With it a little lower, it can be used for some measure of hold over, as long as you can still see the critter. | |||
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For most of my life Ive been a human range finder, sighted in 3" high at 100 yards, ala Jack O'Connor student, and its worked...A couple of years ago I got a Vortex Range finder, its small and handy and I yet to take it hunting, I just don't think or it unless Im ranging out the pickup window, Ive been a big fan of the standard Duplex forever, but have a couple old cross haired Leupold and a Lyman Alaskan..Actually Im comfortable with the old cross hairs..Most of all I appreciate the centered reticle, regardless of its faults and its worked perfectly for me, perhaps because all I ask of a scope is to hit what Im shooting at, the rest is folley and the KISS principle weighs heavy in my shooting/hunting, don't complicate my life with shooting or hunting. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I agree with your outlook on estimating distances, Ray - even when I had a rangefinder (and could countenance using it) I would forget it when something exciting appeared in the distance. However, I'm not so sure about your saying that constantly centred reticles have worked perfectly for you. The reason your scopes rattled after heavy recoil was because they had constantly centred reticles. Except for the odd model using the Pecar Champion's FFP field-stop concept, all image-movement scopes have hinged erector tubes with the front ends under spring suspension. When the scope rises under recoil that front end is left behind to get banged around - and spring failure can result ... | |||
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I have about 25 scopes, all are duplex reticles. The next 25 will be the same. NRA Patron member | |||
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I remember when the Duplex reticle came on the market like it was last week (1963); before that everything was either a plain wire, or a dot. The theory was that the heavier part of the duplex would guide your eye into the center; it quickly became the standard; problem was/is that they messed up in two ways; they didn't make the heavy part, heavy enough, and they didn't make it close enough the the center. Why? Because Leupold is not in the Eastern US where 350 yard shots are rare. We have dark woods and trees.Like a lot of things, guys make what they have, work, because they don't know how it could be different/better. I liked the dots; your eye fixates on the dot; don't have to search for the center. But not the target dots; do not take a 1/8th minute dot into the field. Unless you are out west. Maybe. The reticle I like best is the Leupold Pig Plex; it has heavy side posts like the German, still has a cross in the middle, BUT, also has a circle around the center. Best of all worlds; short, woods, dark, and long range, although it is only made in 1.5-4. Yes, most of my scopes are duplex; several are German post. Some dots, etc. | |||
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Leupold LR Duplex. Zeo at 200 provides aiming point at ~300, ~400 and ~450. Best combination of simplicity and ranging. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Leupold's B&C reticle does the same thing. | |||
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There is a big difference in hunting in the open west and hunting in other conditions; and I submit the duplex is not optimal for both. Usable, yes, but best, no. So, the use must first be defined before it is proclaimed the "best". It is just OK for much of what is used for.. It's like I can drive my Ferrari to the grocery store, and that works, but my wife's minivan probably is optimal for that use. | |||
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Leupold 3-9x40. I don't see it on Leupold site. It's a heavy duplex but not at 12'  | |||
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Since 95% of big game animals are shot at distances under 250 yds, the simple duplex is more than adequate, especially if you understand the subtensions of the reiticle. | |||
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Yup. On Vari-X III models, the bottom post is typically the 300 yard impact point when cranked to the highest power (6.5-20 excepted, and perhaps the lowest model as well). I do use the B&C reticle on mid-range guns, and LR rifles all use Nightforce reticles that allow me to hold for the wind after cranking the knobs. As much as I love long range shooting, it isn't that relevant for most hunting. | |||
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Sambarman, Yes I did have some trouble shooting the 458 Lott and the 5505 Gibs with my beloved 3X scopes, but every scope I tried gave up the ghost with 250 rounds on those two, and the furtheriest shot I ever made with either was under 50 yards, so I used a receiver sight and loved packing the gun and was accurate to a 100 yards, maybe a bit more, who knows!1 Leupoled solved the problem if you recall with the 2.5x compact..by then I was sold on the peep for the bigger big guns! but the compact worked fine one the lesser calibers that I preferred like the 404 and 416, but so did the 3X Leupolds..but what the hell, Im too damned old to fly to Africa these days and he elk and deer live behind my house..all I have to do today is draw a cow tag.  If I could change the rules of hunting based on my full life of hunting, Id require one to use a lever action in calibers up to a 308 or 7-08 with iron sights, pass an off hand shooting test at a running tire like the Swiss used to do, and enjoy success or lack there off, but I can live with the status quo of today..I just wonder if we have gone to far with techknowlegy. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Thanks Ray, even so, if you ever decide to sell that particular Leupold 2.5x they sent you, I'd like first refusal. Meanwhile, don't forget to write a book. | |||
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Well then, order yourself one from Nioa. They are still onnthe Leupold website, as the 12.5 Ultralite. The Compact has simply been renamed the Ultralite, according Leupold, and also, according to Leupold's response to my query, is extremely recoil tolerant. IF Ray's Compact is different from the standard Compact/Ultralite, I have no recollection of those differences ever being spelt out here. | |||
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I used a lot of standard duplex reticles. But know for any caliber I plan to use out past 200 yards I buy a ballistic reticle. Mil-dots- Boone-crocket- balisc-plex Yes some of them get way to crowded. A range finder and a good reticle makes hitting out to 500 fairly easy. | |||
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I was lead to believe that my scope was a standard 2.5 compact and explained to have the cross hairs moved to under the adjustments, but we are dealing with many years ago SAmbarman, and an 85 year old simi functional brain hitting on three cylinders these days..I looked for my compact yesterday, its gone or misplaced so far..Maybe sold on one of my guns..but it took a wringing out for sure on my Lott and 505, and from there to whatever, had it a long time..In fact I looked everywhere except on my guns, well duh! Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Standard duplex most of the time, except fine duplex for small varmints NRA Patron member | |||
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It is my belief that the special scope Leupold sent Ray was in fact some kind of reversion to the reticle-movement type they made up until 1964. My reasons for thinking this are, first, because they told him not to worry about it going bad because the reticle was located under the turrets. Now, some modern scopes have reticles there, in the first focal plane, which makes them better for rangefinding and stadia use. However, if anything, having the reticle adding mass out on that end of the erector tube would make the scope more susceptible to recoil, not less. Only by having the reticle ring independent of the erector-set (and the erector-set fixed solidly in the outer tube), is it likely to be more secure than in an ordinary modern scope. (Ray said this scope also had a constantly centred reticle, but this could be achieved by adding a field stop to the reticle such as was used in the Pecar Champions.) My second reason for believing that particular scope was reticle-movement was simply its reliability. IIRC, other scopes were buggering up on his big rifles after one-or-two-hundred shots but this one lasted at least 1500 shots and was still OK last I heard. Since you're an Aussie, secondtry, PM me your address and I'll send you a copy of my book LIGHT AT THE START OF THE TUNNEL - Are rifle scopes off the rails?, so you can delve further into this matter. Cheers | |||
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Last I heard, Ray, you said it was retired to your 375 magnum. Hang on to it because, after you write your own book and become famous like Elmer Keith, someone might build a museum in your honor, and they'll need interesting exhibits to put in it  | |||
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