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Quote: If you look at the incidents Alf posted they are all "tame" buffalos. It is really stupid to condition male "wild" beasts to loose the fear of humans as they will turn on you one day. My own beasts are only deer but while it is OK to hand rear a doe or hind as a "pet" it should never be done with a stag as one day he will stick you on his antlers. They remain wild beasts in their souls especially in the rut. Cape buffalo bulls are a lot bigger and meaner than any stag too. Would you go and pat a cattle bull in a paddock. I wouldn't, it is stupid. Why do so with a buffalo bull?!  The thing that keeps truly wild buffalo from stomping us more often is fear of mankind. A fear that needs to be maintained. Sometimes though they will defend themselves unprovoked, maybe this bull was attacked by lions the night before, by another bull or was just in a bad mood. I guess that is why they are called dangerous game. | |||
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I don't know about anybody else, but I'm about to puke.  (Ray, where do I send the check?). | |||
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Quote: I think this comment came from all the BS not long ago when some people were pushing a stunt calibre and rifle and claiming cape buffalo are not dangerous and comparing them to bison and such. I read once an article where a hunter was hunting nilgai in Tiger country in India. He took a rifle adequate for Tiger. Why not the same for Africa? But it is a personal choice. | |||
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NitroX, You pulled all the best lines from the news stories except this one: "Even my testicles could be saved where the bull had rammed his horns between my legs. It is truly a miracle," he said. These gamefarm stories have only tertiary commonality with hunting but point out the unpredictable nature of buffalo. As to the Fontana incident, if you get completely blind-sided, it doesn't matter what rifle you (or your PH) is carrying. My personal preference is to carry at least a 338 in buffalo, lion or elephant country, no matter what the game du jour might be. I don't kid myself into thinking its a stopping rifle, but it increases my odds just a bit and that's enough for me. If I'm off the truck, I've got a round in the chamber. I've never had a PH ask me to do otherwise. Finally and most importantly, my heart goes out to Bob Fontana's friends and family as well as to Paddy Curtis. It will be a long time before any of them gets a peaceful night's sleep. | |||
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I have hunted with Paddy in Luke's area. He is a great PH and I am sure he did whatever he could, but stuff happens. I twice had Buffalo boil out of from under my feet while hunting Luke's Masailand area. Fortunately, in both instances, they (3 in one group, 4 in another) ran the other way. Had they come at us, I doubt anyone could have reacted fast enough to do a damn thing about it. My condolences to Bob's family. | |||
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Quote: I find that amazing. Any farmer knows that any cow can, under the "right" circumstances be a tragedy waiting to happen. I may herd them with a stick but I know where to go to get away from them. | |||
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Saying things with fingers across cyberspace is difficult, extremely difficult for me. Many others have the same affliction. Some however do a wonderful job to a point of entertainment that should require payment. Circumstance is a funny thing as well and it varies so greatly. Just before I posted my original comment to Will�s post, I had visited with a friend in a local gunshop. I knew he was well acquainted with Bob and expected to discuss this tragedy with him. Circumstance hadn�t permitted his knowing of the incident so I broke, to him, the sobering news. What an awful thing. Will I apologize. Chuck | |||
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Lee Jurras has a similar story. He came to Africa with a 458 win mag, softs and solids. The professional hunter would not allow him to use the softs. His argument was, "What if we happen up on a bull elephant?" The pro hunters point is always be gunned, and ready, for the worst, and perhaps you will survive. However, let's get real. As a spieces, we suck compared to the senses, communication ability, and bush sense of just about all the animals we hunt. While humans hunt animals, if we had to do it without rifles, we would have many more deaths. That said, I defend all hunters rights, because I believe we have that right to risk our lives. I just hope I go out doing something I love, rather then a whimpering, shitty death in some hospital. God Bless Bob Fontana, and his family, and friends. I'm sure he's in a better place... s | |||
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God watches for those he wants and takes them when He is ready, whether we are ready or not. We feel it tragic that this man has left us and though I do not know him, by the comments written I feel that I know how he lived. He touched you all who knew him and he has left a large void in your lives but do not dwell upon his passing but rejoice in his life now beginning and sorrow only that you must wait until your own time to see him again. Frank | |||
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Amen. s | |||
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Will: You're the only guy on this post who can piss me off with your ostensibly stupid comment and then get me laughing! I apologize for judging you without knowing you. Scott | |||
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I really do not want to piss anyone off and you can use what ever rifle you want but I would like to point out that a larger bullet going at a slower speed tends to do less damage to meat and hide then a smaller bullet moving at a faster speed. So if you are worried about using a 375 H&H on small plains game it should do less damage then a 300 Win shooting 180's at 3100 fps because the larger bullet would probably not even open up on a small animal were the smaller bullet would. | |||
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So if you used a 45- ... never mind. | |||
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| <allen day> |
I don't care about "meat damage" in Africa. You're there for trophies -- not venison for the family back home. Even so, nothing seems to go to waste in Africa, and I mean NOTHING. Quite honestly I have found no discernable difference as far as meat damage or cape damage goes between a .300 Win. and a .375 H&H. If you use good, premium bullets in the .300, the damage will be minimal. AD | ||
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Quote:Quote: | |||
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Who is Bob Fontana? Trigger | |||
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We were in Chete once, walking to a lion bait early in the morning. As we approached a slight rise, we came face to face with an old buffalo bull. He was about 7 yards from us, and looked us straight in the eyes. Alan, one of our PH switched his video camera on a started to take a video of him. I had my rifle up and the crosshair smack at his snout. We stood there looking at each other less than a minute. He then decided to turn around and run to safer grounds. If we were not close to the lion bait, I would have shot him. Anyway, in Chete we always managed to finish our quota of buffalo, which sometimes numbered an even dozen That is what I call a REAL 22 day African safari. I think you are absolutely right. If one gets too close to an animal - not necessarily a buffalo - it will most likely charge you as it imagines itself in danger. | |||
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[quote Like others, here, I would rather meet my maker in the African bush, than as Ray says in some nursing home! Perhaps all of you old guys that are bragging up the quality of death under a buffalo rather than under a blanket ought to head to Africa with the 45-70 popguns that you so despise rather than your 470s. Brent | |||
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Saeed, You are absolutely right about being in close to animals. Every single animal and every human being has their own personal safety area, and when that is crossed by someone or something else, there will more likely be a protective action. When you get into that personal space of a buffalo which I would say to be 20 yards whether wounded or not, your chances of danger has just gone way up. The Masailand buffalo are well known for their temper as they are used to being harrassed by the Masai and they do not hesiate to charge. | |||
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Quote: Not an easy question to answer, depending on the level of detail you are interested in. Most people know him through his outfitting business... Lancaster Fontana Hunting Company | |||
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Quote: Perhaps all of you old guys that are bragging up the quality of death under a buffalo rather than under a blanket ought to head to Africa with the 45-70 popguns that you so despise rather than your 470s. Brent Brent, as my father used to say, "Heaven is my home, but I'm not at all homesick!"  So I'm certainly not going to commit suicide with a toy, to stay out of a rest home! A death in the bush has some meaning,and one at the hands of abusive staff of a hospital for the aged, does not! I don't think any man who lived in the woods,like Bob Fontana, would prefere a resthome end!  | |||
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"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; who's face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood; who errs and comes short again...who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause; who at least knows in the end the triumph of high acheivement; and at worst, if he fails, at least fails while doing greatly, so that his place will never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat." TR A toast to the spirit of Bob Fontana. My condolences to those friends and family left behind. Enough of the armchair quarterbacking. Jeff | |||
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Quote: Allen, while I definatly agree that nothing goes to waste in africa, and thus meat damage doesn't really matter much, I have to disagree with that the .300 mags don't do more damage than a 375H&H. I used to have a .300 WBY that I shot about 10 moose with + 5 plains game in Zim. At first I used Trophy Bonded bear Claws, but found that they opened up a bit to fast IMO, creating too much meat damage for my liking (on the moose) and the rapid expansion seemed to slow the bullet down rather quickly so they rarely made it to the other side of the mooses shoulders (I prefer a hole on both sides on our moose). I then went over to using Swift A-frames, which are a bit harded than the TBBC. They opened slower as expected, but I still feel that the meat damage was too much. Of the around 30 moose I have shot with a .375H&H (with both TBBC and Swift A-frames) I have found the meat damage to be visably less then with the .300 WBY. With a lot less of the bloody bruising that is unavoidable no matter what. Maybe it's just us that are very picky about meat loss, but at least that's my experiance with the mentioned caliburs. Erik D. | |||
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| <allen day> |
Mac, I agree. Death in Africa might well be better than death in a nursing home, but that's no reason to rush things. I don't think very many people carry with them some sort of death wish, and I'm certainly not one of them. It can all say is, I'm not willing to die for the sake of a budget (meaning a cheap rifle), nor am I willing to die for the joy of using some sort of theoretical cartridge. There are too many things that can go so very wrong in the first place, and outside of our ability to control. Bob's death being a horrific and tragic example. So I say, eliminate all the variables that you can. Control what you CAN control: Stay in good physical condition. Leave personal problems at home; keep your head clear; stay away from too much booze around the campfire; and be ready to hunt every day of the safari. Buy a rifle that works, and I mean really works, even if it costs considerably more than the off-the-shelf stuff (read 'junk') at your local retailer's -- after all it can be a matter of your money of your life, so don't step over a dollar to pick up a dime. Make sure that rifle is indeed "plenty of gun", and not some pipsqueek Lone Ranger number that makes all the pilgrims back home giddy, and pacifies some crossroads hawkshaw with a newfangled bullet to sell. Put in plenty of practice time at the range, as well -- most of it from field positions, not the bench...... AD | ||
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Quote: Very well said.Haveing had two heart attacks my wife worries about me being out and about and thats just the way I am.If one has to go I would rather have it doing what I love rather than putting up with the idiots that care for you in Nursing home enviroments.Love to hunt and nothing will stop me. Sorry if I butted in but it sounds like the man was doing what he loved and it was his time unfortuately.God bless him and his family. Jayco. | |||
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Quote: RA, when I read this comment of yours, it says to me that it is better to do something you love doing than be forced to do something you hate. Living in fear of what may happen is not for most on this site, facing life as it comes with preparation and a smile on your face is OK by me. I did not know this man, but from appearances and reports, fear of life was not a factor. Condolances to any and all concerned. | |||
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From a mutual friend and sent by Bob's wife Anna. There will be a memorial service for Robert on Sunday, July 25th at 1:00 pm at the Key City Theatre in Cranbrook. Donations in lieu of flowers can be sent to: Robert B. Fontana Scholarship Fund c/o School District #5 940 Industrial Road #1 Cranbrook, BC V1C 4C6 | |||
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The fact that you are close is all it takes! This is what happened to Bob, IMO! They simply got too close to the bull without knowing he was there, and accidently got into his fight circle, before the bull knew they were there! 