Hey all.
I have just been informed that Kudu's are now being sold per inch by some outfitters up in Northern SA.

How common is this and do the better known outfitters do this ?

A number of hunting ranch/farm operators in both Namibia & RSA often have a dual-priced option on kudu, one fee for under 50" and another for 50 " plus. I believe its fairly common. Some in other countries have one price but only have clients shoot 50" or better animals

To be honest it stinks. I want to shoot a mature bull kudu with length and mass. This I have done. So now they want you to shoot immature bulls for the sake of shooting a mature bull. If you only shoot mature bulls all the others will grow yearly and mature.

Mike

DAVE IT HAPPENS A LOT! Not only on Kudus but buffalo, sable, rhino, elephant, whitetail deer and stag in New Zealand, I have A price list from Mozambique were sable and elephant is price per inch and pounds, nothing new to it. AND YES MOST OUTFITERS DO IT THESE DAYS. Happy new year!

quote:

Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
DAVE IT HAPPENS A LOT! Not only on Kudus but buffalo, sable, rhino, elephant, whitetail deer and stag in New Zealand, I have A price list from Mozambique were sable and elephant is price per inch and pounds, nothing new to it. AND YES MOST OUTFITERS DO IT THESE DAYS. Happy new year!

Thanks Phillip.
Was aware of Rhino an Elephant , but Kudu ?
I was told an outfitter was charging x$ / inch on kudu

I've seen a couple of Ads for outfitters with one price for kudu <50" and another price for >50".
I just pass them by as I'm not interested in hunting by the inch.

I agree. I have been researching a future pg hunt. I have crossed many off my list because of this practice, and I will continue to do so.

Dave, I have my own ranch but as you know you can not do all the hunting on one place, the ranchers in my area are charging by the inch, and let me tell you big kudu bulls are getting harder and harder to come by, and very expensive.

Outfitters can do as they wish...but I have never, nor will I ever hunt with an outfitter using such a pricing structure.

This is why I have no interest in hunting many areas in Europe.
Cal

I choose not to participate.

It's one thing charging under 50' an over 50' as this is a nice divide between the East Cape Greater Kudu which trophies at 40-41+ as a min an the regular Southern Greater that starts at 50+

But who has hunted with an outfitter that hunts Kudu / inch.
If you don't mind naming them , it's not a bad reflection on them , rather just an info session

In 11 safaris I've never hunted with any PH who has charged, by the inch, for any animal, and I don't intend to do so in the future. And yes, please name them that are now doing so.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
This is why I have no interest in hunting many areas in Europe.
Cal

+1 Cal. The per inch trophy fee system is enough to keep me away from an otherwise perfectly good outfitter or country. I seriously doubt I'll ever hunt Spain and maybe even Turkey for the same reason.

Brett

I don't like a per inch price on anything if I can help it.

We have some items like that in Europe but much is a fixed price on trophy animals. What I don't have a problem is a dual tier price. By that I mean a trophy animal and a management animal.

I don't consider a 49" kudu to be a management animal so agree that they should not be a premium, but I do think that for her management purposes you need to remove lesser quality young males. This is a herd management job and personally I have no issue if someone pays a lower trophy fee for such a hunt.

I don't have space for trophies and just enjoy hunting so management animal hunts are a favourite of mine.

K

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
This is why I have no interest in hunting many areas in Europe.
Cal

I absolutely, positively, refuse to hunt with any outfitter who has this policy.

And as Cal mentioned, that is one reason I will not hunt Europe.

Such a policy would force me to carry a tape, which I refuse to do. Never have; Never will.

if the outfitter wishes to pursue this foolishness, then he needs to go out and measure every kudu on his place and hang tags on each one stating its measurement (i'd pay a daily rate to watch)

I think I've shot somewhere in the order of 13 kudu bulls.....and had up until recently never seen this practice.

But you see an awful lot of outfitters now asking three different price points: one for less than 55" and another for 55" to 60" and another for over 60".

I wouldn't hunt Europe because of this type of practice either.

I just got a brochure from Garry Kelly Safaris in the mail a few days ago....and was astonished by the Kudu prices.

The price for a bull under 60" was $2,750....and a bull over 60" was $6,500!! I know GK Safaris has a great reputation and has been around for a long time, but in my opinion, those prices are just overboard. But I guess if they can get it, then more power to them.

I saw this when I hunted with Serapa last year. I told my PH that I had no interest in shooting Kudu under that scheme. I did see an excellent Kudu with them, that I thought was in the 60" ballpark, but had no desire to shoot him. The prices for Kudu in SA seemed higher than Zim.

As above, more power to them, but I am not interested in doing that.

Add me to the list of clients who won't hunt with an outfitter who charges by the inch for Kudu. I don't want to be in a position where I have to worry or ask the PH how much the Kudu in my sights will cost before I pull the trigger.

We all hunt with the hope that the hunting gods will smile and give us the opportunity for a shot at a real trophy animal. Charging by the inch just takes all the fun out of hunting. Sounds more like shopping then hunting.

As others have said, this type of pricing has caused me to delete European hunts from by bucket list.

quote:

Originally posted by Ongwe:
Outfitters can do as they wish...but I have never, nor will I ever hunt with an outfitter using such a pricing structure.

I'll go elsewhere as well

No surprise in this. It's been going on for as long as I was looking at paid hunting.

It is pure marketing. Just like Lion hunts in S Africa, there is demand from cashed up consumers so the market provides. Providers will save their elite trophies for their elite payers.

Don't like it, don't pay.

Edit: I'm not sure about some of the statements concerning european 'hunting'. I know their game is far more intensely managed than many places on the rest of the planet. Gamekeepers are often familiar with individual animals because of the concentrated real estate involved.

I hunted Roe Buck in the UK with no mention of pay for size. Then again, it was not a paid hunt either.

quote:

It is pure marketing. Just like Lion hunts in S Africa, there is demand from cashed up consumers so the market provides. Providers will save their elite trophies for their elite payers.

Don't like it, don't pay.

Fair point....it's simply what the market will bear.

And kudu are the most prized PG species for most hunters..........so the land owners and outfitters capitalize on it.

Another thing, not wishing to hijack the thread, but I simply hate the car dealers who charge different prices for cars. Why can't a Ford Mustang and a Fiat Uno not be sold for the same price?

Have you seen the prices charged for Ferrari's these days? Rediculous! Not to mention Porches!

I will only buy a car from a dealer who has one fixed price for all his models!

http://choiceafricasafaris.co.za/Pricelist.htm
http://www.sadakasafaris.com/h...vitiespricelist.html
http://www.kolobesafaris.co.za..._safari_company.html
http://www.koedoeberg.co.za/prices/
http://www.safariafrika.net/rates.html
http://www.phbert.co.za/hunt.htm

In good hunting.

The sad reality, as I pointed out in another thread, is demand far exceed the supply gentleman. You might all feel like that, but there has been at least 4 Kudu bulls shot in the last year over 60" that was paid for over $10k. And these hunters are not all Americans.

I have some properties where the Land owners charge us one price for the bull, and it does not matter how big it is, but most places these days charge per inch for Kudu, which in turn makes it difficult for us to market it other wise.

I have a good idea how we are going to steer around this issue, and Infinito Safaris will introduce a different marketing scheme on our USA marketing tour this year to see if it works.

But let me tell you now, in the not so distant future, Kudu bulls every where in South Africa, over 50" will cost you more than $3,000.00! Weather you like it or not, or approve of it or not. So if a big kudu bull is still on the cards for you, go now to someone you are comfortable with.

My Kudu bulls are now $2,500.00 for 2014, but you can still shoot what you get, and we averaged 55" this past year!

unfortunate but it makes plains game hunts in Namibia and Bots. more attractive...

Interesting and a little disappointing that we can't simply agree on a set trophy fee for a particular game animal and hunt for the best we can find.

I'd rather go home with no taxidermy bill than have a 48" kudu on the wall.

Honestly it makes them seem like farm animals and detracts from the appeal of the hunt.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Andrew McLaren:
Another thing, not wishing to hijack the thread, but I simply hate the car dealers who charge different prices for cars. Why can't a Ford Mustang and a Fiat Uno not be sold for the same price?

Have you seen the prices charged for Ferrari's these days? Rediculous! Not to mention Porches!

I will only buy a car from a dealer who has one fixed price for all his models!

http://choiceafricasafaris.co.za/Pricelist.htm
http://www.sadakasafaris.com/h...vitiespricelist.html
http://www.kolobesafaris.co.za..._safari_company.html
http://www.koedoeberg.co.za/prices/
http://www.safariafrika.net/rates.html
http://www.phbert.co.za/hunt.htm

In good hunting.

When I buy a hunt I buy a hunt. Not an animal or "class" of animal. Sell your Ferraris, but I'll go elsewhere…………like sheep hunting or Zimbabwe.

Brett

Quite a few ranch owners price their kudu per inch,which makes it difficult for outfitters to charge a set price.I still charge a set price no matter what the size.Buffalo are showing the same trend,with different price sets for under and over #40.

My take on this is that I am buying a hunt, not the animal.

I can understand a dividing line between "trophy" and "Cull"- and that the decision is made in the field.

Also, I have been told that on these pay by the inch places, if you tell the guide/PH what you want, and they mess up and you shoot over your size class you still owe the higher price in almost all of them.

As I said to one of my PH's, if the official score is after 6 months of drying with a master measurer being the rule, then you had better not ask me to pay based on the skinner's tape measure in camp... Trophy fees will be paid when the final official score is made. (that didn't sound like it would work to him...) Look at the mess that has happened in South America with Red Deer and measurement disputes.

I have no problem with a double tier system for management vs trophy animals.
However price per inch no way, if I book for a trophy animal the deed is done, the results wil then be decided by area, luck and perseverance.
I have seen price lists with increments as little as 2", I would think it fair to hold a PH to 1/2" accuracy when hunting with such a list. The PH only has to be accurate within 25% of the increment.

Hardware store products are bought by the inch, maybe land owners should realise they are not in the hardware business.

Fortunately I like blunt and broken horns...

Yup, when you talk $ for inches i will book with another outfit.
It is about the hunt, just like fishing we all hope for the big one.
You guys marketing such can have your high rollers, good luck to you.
I will support the guy who does not.
cheers
Stu

quote:

Originally posted by Balule:
I have no problem with a double tier system for management vs trophy animals.
However price per inch no way

+1

Guys so what is the difference between A kudu priced by the inch in South Africa, than up until the end of hunting Botswana elephants were charged by the pound Tanzania elephants are charged by the pound, The lion needs be 6 years and older, in Mozambique A lot elephants and sable is price like that. I know in some countries were they hunt really big croc there is different pricing it is being going on long before any one priced a kudu by the inch. For us outfitters it is a tough one because in most cases these days we are are charged that way. And Namibia will follow soon I see sable is already on that pricing structure.

Something else that happens, what if A client insist on shooting something with "X" AMOUNT OF INCHES ON THE HORNS, lets say you find a big old beautiful kudu bull the second day of your 7 day plains game hunt and the client don't shoot it he wants bigger and better should he not pay more then for the bigger bull? guys helped us out here it is always good to know how the clients feel and think about these things. Happy hunting Phillip

In Tanz, when I hunted there they had 3 classes of elephant by government fiat. I had issues with it, but you pay to play I guess. In the end, I didn't shoot one there.

As to the client turning down a Kudu because he wants bigger, I don't see the higher price. He paid for a hunt; he decided that that bull wasn't what he was after and took the risk of not getting anything- in essence he paid more daily rate for his Kudu.

I expect that a operator who has a proven track record of producing over 60" Kudu bulls will be able to charge more (and get clients who are willing to pay it) for his hunts than the guy who does not- assuming we are talking free range Kudu. Obviously, if they are put and take it is a different deal there- and I would kind of expect to pay by the inch there. To some extent, when I hear pay per inch I think it is not free ranging hunting, even though it may be.

I guess if you are talking a SA ranch behind high fence, but still not put and take, lay it out to the hunter- if we hunt on this property he has a history of producing over 60" bulls, and it costs a bit more to hunt there; alternatively property Y has no history of over 60" bulls, but its cheaper...

I don't consider myself a "inch" hunter, so I don't like that scheme, but I do like having a chance of getting a monster. Since I have shot some, I will turn down a undistinguished smaller animal if everything else is equal, and hope I find better, but then I also don't get too worked up about 2-3" either. Skill and luck.

I know there are some guys whose whole goal is a over 60" animal, and will be willing to pay a premium to get it (and probably some would be willing to shoot in a small enclosure too...)

The outfitter really needs to decide which clientele he wants to work with, and what fits his business model.

All I ask is that you be honest with me. I booked with a outfit that did sell on size for Kudu, I just decided not to shoot one there, but I also told them that up front as well.

How can one compare farm grown plains game animals to free roaming elephants?

How many hunters go to Africa for plains game, and how many hunters go to Africa for elephants?

quote:

Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:

Something else that happens, what if A client insist on shooting something with "X" AMOUNT OF INCHES ON THE HORNS, lets say you find a big old beautiful kudu bull the second day of your 7 day plains game hunt and the client don't shoot it he wants bigger and better should he not pay more then for the bigger bull? guys helped us out here it is always good to know how the clients feel and think about these things. Happy hunting Phillip

Phillip, I'm taking a dig at you, only giving my point of view on your above statement.

I also hunt packages. My packages are : you shoot the first mature animal you find.
If someone wants inches he hunts for a day rate and a trophy fee and we hunt hard.Most of my hunting is low fenced conservancies etc so you gotta look hard at getting the one you want. But they are $1400 for the East Cape bulls if it's a mature 40" entry level bull or a gold medal 46+" bull.We average 45" with the exceptional 1-2 50-52".
If the PH SAYS SHOOT AN ITS NOT MATURE, YOU GO AGAIN AT NO COST.
Isn't that how business should be done?