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 [/URL]I photographed his impressive buffalo bull near the Southern African Wildlife College a couple of months ago. The SAWC lies within the Timbavati which is now part and parcel of the Greater Kruger National Park. He was very obviously a dominant herd bull. This we could tell because he maneuvered the cows he was with out of the way and then placed himself between us and them. He was aged to be in his eight year - most probably 8.5 and this can be determined by his boss which while impressive, is still soft and puffy in the middle. It is however hard enough on the top for him to head butt successfully so as to be able to obtain this privileged position, but it should be obvious by his overall appearance that he is still relatively young and in his absolute prime as a breeding bull. Over the next three years or so he'll hopefully sire many calves. In hunting areas like the Timbavati it is imperative that bulls like this be given the opportunity to pass their genes on for the full tenure of their breeding period. By the time his bull is in his 12 yr we know for sure he'll be done and dusted as a breeder. This is the time when he should be sport hunted. He'll look a lot different then, but what a real buffalo trophy should look like with hairless patches on his face, ragged and tatty ears and a magnificent boss which will be stone-hard. Here at the SAWC we age all the buffalo killed by lions and those sport-hunted in the area by the Taylor 1 st molar tooth method. This method is accurate to within a year but we reckon we can now age a buffalo to within 6 months just by evaluating his physical features. Only buffalo bulls 12 yrs and older are eligible for sport hunting here and the positive spinoff will I'm sure soon become obvious. If any of you would like to learn how we do the aging, you're welcome to contact me. Please refrain from all the BANG, BANG, 'measure him on the ground', 'my taxidermist will fix his boss' comments I've read in the past when pictures like this are posted. Its time for all of us who love buffalo and their hunting to realize that the best bulls need to be left alone to do their job. By all means hunt them, but only when they are past breeding. It makes no sense to shoot all the best young bulls and then complain about the dropping trophy quality in an area - and there are many such areas out here where such complaints are aired. It's time for a mind shift gentleman - and I hope you all agree. | ||
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A hell of an animal, and I'm not sure how many operators would have the forebearance to leave him.  "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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Great looking animal. I presume this is a research bull and I would be interested to see a photo of him every six months or so. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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No Andrew he is a free-ranging bull in an area where 1.25% of the buffalo population are sport-hunted annually. | |||
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IMHO, he's ready to go on a wall  "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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Thank you Kevin, please continue to inform and educate. Too many areas have been shot out and have terrible quality now, and the only people to blame are the outfitters and PH's. Thankfully with a bit of care and sensible decisions all will not be lost. Reduce the quotas and shoot only the old bulls should be the general maxim! | |||
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How wide IS that bull anyhow? Impressive animal!! A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Well, I have been hunting the Selous for a number of years, and I can assure you that there not enough 12 year old bulls available to fulfill even 30% of the quota available. We actually made a specific point to go for old dugga boys living on their own, by going to remote areas on foot, as the truck cannot access them. We only managed to find one and shoot it. All the rest of the buffalo we shot were in herds, and from estimates their age was around 8 years. | |||
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I am no biologist, but I have to wonder...how many 10, 11, and 12 year old bulls are still strong enough to maintain breeding rights when challenged by 7, 8, or 9 year old males? In other words, does it make sense to wait to shoot this bull until he is 12 or 13 when he might have been pushed out and not breeding by 10? On another front, I wonder, even if possible by some means to keep him breeding as a dominant male until 13 years old, does it make sense to do so from a genetic diversity perspective? Are there actual disadvantages to having this bull spreading his seed far and wide for so many years to the exclusion of others? What happens when he becomes a dominant breeding bull at age 7 or 8 or 9 and is still a dominant breeding bull when cows that he sired are achieving sexual maturity? While I understand the "trophy quality" element of waiting to shoot him, I would love to hear the "herd science" behind waiting to shoot him. | |||
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Don't agree at all. If I'm hunting for Buffalo, I'm shooting this one. It's the nicest one I have seen in years. What really bothers me is some 'expert' telling the rest of us what we should or should not do. If its a question of being a 'legal' animal, please chime in. You just graduated to the same class as "The Lion Guys" who want to tell us all what to shoot. Great you have an opinion, but you don't have a right to decide what my opinion is. | |||
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Dear Buckeyeshooter May I kindly suggest that you do a bit of reading about Mr Robertson, his qualification, experience and passion for the pursuit of Cape Buffalo as a sport hunted animal. You may view your snide comment in a different light Yours sincerely Manyathelo | |||
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Both Mr. Robertson and Buckeyeshooter have a right to their opinions. And will due respect to Mr. Robertson - and I agree with him. But, under today's conditions, most buffalo hunters would come home empty handed if they followed a 12 year rule for buffalo. Which will in turn mean many hunting outfits will close shop, as the buffalo is almost on everyone's mind when on safari. | |||
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Absolutely everybody is entitled to an opinion, some are just more informed and wiser I agree that a 12 year rule on buffalo will be problematic and I would not support it, but at the same time it is also clear that we need to move away from shooting young bulls just because they have wide horns. It is great that you yourself are in agreement on that point and that many outfitters are applying the same in their areas | |||
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buckeyeshooter I think you will find a responsible PH/operator such as CMS etc not allowing you to shoot a young breeding bull. However they will put you onto a desirable trophy and the hunting will be first class. Basically the theory is if we can ignore soft bulls such of these then the quality would improve for us hunters in the future. Imagine coming across this boy in a couple of years time? Next time you hunt buff if the operator cannot put you onto a hard bossed bull then insist that you would want your money back. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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This, unfortunately is just the kind of statement that the anti-hunters home in on. It portrays us hunters as an ignorant lot, with the well being of the buffalo furthest from our hearts? It will be difficult to turn him down, and a great percentage of us would take him, but ask yourselves, "For the sake of future hunting, would I be doing the right thing? More-so if the area is marginal in terms of good buffalo, and if a rule were in place allowing harvesting of older buffalo only? I have no scientific facts to back up what I am about to say, other than my own experiences and my own judgement, but I really do believe that species numbers have deteriorated over the 27 years I have been a PH, of a large variety of game. | |||
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Beautiful bull doctari! I agree with your opinion. Would like to see this bull in a few years. I bet he will be even more desirable. | |||
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100 % Andrew , all it means is that the area has been over shot. That's when the PH starts smearing extra mud on the soft boss to cover it up for pictures.... Kevin is absolutely right. I think us PH's who have been around for long enough have all shot soft bossed Buffalo , but if we don't start implementing some rule we will soon have no proper Buffalo left to hunt. The outfitters who implement the rule will reap the rewards on their areas on the long run. It calls for a mindset change , hunting old Buffalo , not dick measuring. | |||
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This would appear to me to be an exceptional animal. Do we decide to base "shoot - no shoot" decisions on the exceptions? I would personally be inclined to go after an old scrum-cap bull, but I have never seen one like this. _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
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I respect Kevin and enjoy his books. The twelve year old rule would be hugely problematic for most operators. If quotas were cut in half and a 12 year old rule phased in over a period of 5 years I would like to see what buffalo prices would look like. $10,000 trophy fees? $2000 day rates? People are predicting the end of safari hunting for most at much lower pricing. How many buffalo do survive past 12 years old without hunting pressure? As they become older and away from the herds how vulnerable are they to predators at say 10 years old. Please do not take this as not agreeing that we should hunt old mature buffalo. My future buffalo hunts will be spent chasing scrum caps, but that does not mean I will not shoot a mature hard boss buffalo. | |||
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Imagine you have a concession in the Selous. You are paying serious money to the game department, and you have a commitment to pay at least 40% of the trophy fees allocated for you for that year. You have also invested in putting up a camp and made sure you have it well supplied for your clients. Would you turn down a bull like this? I seriously doubt it. Especially as the herds tend to move between concessions continuously. | |||
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Can anyone answer my question how wide is this bull? I know it may not relate directly to doctaris thoughts - but I am trying to educate myself!!  A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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At a rough guess 43 and 1/8. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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Agreed but then again maybe the quotas are not sustainable? ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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I think the quotas in Tanzania are lower than in Zimbabwe. And Zimbabwe has a vey stupid loophole where an operator having more than one concession - not connected, but quite far apart - can actually swap quotas. Which means he can shoot all his quota from one good area, and leave the other, non-productive - area alone. It would be helpful if some of our Zimbabwe operators clear this up, as I heard at least one prominent operator is doing just this. In Zimbabwe, I remember we never shot anything from a herd, as there were far too many dugga boys around. We would see several almost on a daily basis, and pick the one we wish to shoot. This is certainly not the case at the present time. | |||
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thanks mate!!A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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All I can really say is "wow". That is one amazing looking buff. I do hope he manages to outsmart a few hunters out there and grow into a Daga. Regards, Robert ****************************** H4350! It stays crunchy in milk longer! | |||
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He doesn't look that young to me, but I don't have Kevin's experience. That boss looks plenty hard and he is one hell of a trophy. I would shoot him unless the PH absolutely insisted that I didn't and then I might just shoot the PH instead. STAY IN THE FIGHT! | |||
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I've read your stuff and you make a lot of "factual" claims about southern buffalo age, breeding habits, etc. Besides your books, can you provide to us references for publications that support your claims in peer-reviewed scientific journals - that is, data published by university based game biologists and derived from well-designed scientific studies. I would like to read those rigorously reviewed scientific publications. AIU | |||
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Thanks for posting Kevin, that is one helluva bull.thanks for sharing . Haven't had a beer with you for a while now. Hopefully at Vegas , regards to the wife and kids Dave Dave Davenport Outfitters license HC22/2012EC Pro Hunters license PH74/2012EC www.leopardsvalley.co.za dave@leopardsvalley.co.za +27 42 24 61388 HUNT AFRICA WHILE YOU STILL CAN Follow us on FACEBOOK https://www.facebook.com/#!/leopardsvalley.safaris | |||
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+1000 I would first ask you, has your group done a extended year parentage testing study, so you actually can prove who's doing the breeding in the herd??? Which means DNA testing all individual, recording their DNA, and then DNA testing all calves from hear on out for 10+ yrs. Then compare the genetics of the calves and determine exactly which cow/bull produced them, with known/documented ages via ear tags? If I had to guess, I'm going to say you probably haven't. There was a study done by Texas A&M on Bison, and the result were quite surprising to common herd breeding doctrine. Guess who was doing a ton of breeding...1-2 yr old bull calves! Guess who they were breeding? They had a high prevalence of breeding their aunts and mothers. All of this information has been published and vetted in scientific peer-reviewed journals. The popular belief that these Bulls aren't passing their genetics on till they reach 8 yrs old is more than likely BS. They very easily could have sired multiple calves by 3-4 yrs of age. SO waiting to shoot this animal is not really necessary. | |||
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I am not saying that I would shoot this bull BUT there is another matter to consider. It is the height of ego to assume that the animal WE think is dominant by some criteria IS actually dominant and breeding. There was a study years ago, I believe it was either focusing on Red Deer or NA sheep...can't recall which, but the study found that the big "impressive" (at least to us) animals were NOT breeding but actually had the energy to put into horn/antler growth because they were NOT fighting to breed! A VERY interesting result that showed what WE value as humans might just NOT be valued by nature. | |||
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This thing bothers me because most of the people proposing this "wait" thing have already taken several head of the animals that they propose others manage so carefully. I know Boddington is a good example of having killed soft boss bulls before and one of our lion hunters have confessed to shooting at least one young lion. Now that they have cut their teeth and cooled their blood, so to speak, they are much more conservative in what their opinions of a reasonable animal to kill is. They are not being hypocritical I believe, I think their perspective is just a bit different after all thier opportunities........ How many Buff have you killed in your life Doctari? How many have you killed that you would pass on today? If I where on a one and done Buffalo hunt and the pictured bull was in front of me? The PH would have to physically restrain me from shooting him! . | |||
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Let's be honest, and maybe this is the point, I suspect many (even most?) PHs would not think twice about a client shooting this bull...or shooting it themselves. | |||
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Hi Kevin, Having walked up on many different soft boss cape buffalo while out hunting and not shooting, can be a learning curve. My PH did this to me to make sure i could get close with out losing my composure and that, i knew where to shoot when we found a hard boss bull for me. Some of the soft boss bulls were nice. While they were not this impressive, some were as good or better than many mounted and shown in sporting stores. I would estimate we were within 20 yards some times. One thing my PH said to me is, do not shoot until he tell me to shoot. Meaning that he is looking over the animals and picking out the hard boss animals that you will go after. We also hunted dagga boys and came across them, in singles and groups to four animals. We also have made stalks on herds of cape buffalo and it is not as easy as you think. getting close and finding the right bull to go after. While having a difficult time turning down the cape buffalo in the picture, it could be done. and i have done it in the past. In 2012, i was not hunting cape buffalo and we came across 3 dagga boys on a daily basis. we drove by and i never had my camera ready, i know one of them would have went 42 may be 43 and the other 2 were in the 40" bracket. A hunter was coming in after i left to hunt cape buffalo and they did not want to scare them off. If they are not pushed they will stay in the area for period of time. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "You've got the strongest hand in the world. That's right. Your hand. The hand that marks the ballot. The hand that pulls the voting lever. Use it, will you" John Wayne | |||
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Here is the bad news - most university professors/biologists know nothing about buffalo and may not even have seen an African Buffalo, sitting in their lecture rooms as nerds. Kevin probably knows buffalos 100 times better than academics with theoretical knowledge. Forget about these foreign scientific publications outsidse Africa. Sorry to busrt your bubble - there ain't anything for you to read. Kevin has his opinion, and if you do not like it, then just say so and we will accept it as you are also entitled to your opinion.  Santa Claus | |||
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Santa Claus, You're not busting my bubble or anybody else's for that matter. Africa has universities, biology departments, and professors of biology. They can conduct scientific studies and publish their findings in international journals, just like anyone else in the World. Society does not have to accept opinion as fact anymore in the modern World...that archaic thought process went away with the dark ages. We are now in the age of enlightenment, and opinions - of all types - are subject to scientific evidence-based proof. Dogma put forth from self-anointed "experts" is no longer truth until proven by the evidence gathered in a scientific unbiased fashion. Regards, AIU | |||
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For those who don't know, Kevin Robertson is a doctor of veterinary medicine, experienced PH, and well-known author, plus other qualifications. | |||
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Santa, with regards to my post, I can tell you that the professor that did the parentage study on the NA Bison, that proved that quite a few 3yrs and under do considerable amount of breeding, has probably touched more North American Buffalo then anyone on the planet and more Cape buffalo (including ones shot Theodore Roosevelt and Kermit) than 90% of the posters on this website combined. One might say he's the world authority on NA Bison, and not just a theoretical one!  Currently, Texas A&M has over 36K different individual hair/blood samples of NA Buffalo and have a project running in 13 different African countries with over 10K samples from various species from Dik-dik to Elephants. There are plenty of Articles published on African Buffalo in scientific journals, so your shoot from the hip assessment is just not based on Fact! With regards to his qualifications, it doesn't matter how many books he's written, or what his degree is...the fact that his opinion has not been tested by the scientific method means it might as well be written on a napkin in an outhouse! Boddington writes tons of books, do you think he's an expert on the science of buffalo? There's a big difference between writing BullSh*t articles in Safari Magazine, African Gazette, Petersons, making a DVD...they don't have to prove anything they write! (Funny side bar...it's interesting all these writers seem to always be writing about whatever they last shot...if the outfitter let them shoot a free range lion, than RSA is the Devil, if they get a free RSA lion, then it's a good hunt that promotes conservation, same goes for a 35" dugga boy, vs the new world record Timbavati Saturday night special!) Dr. Kevin could write a book about how Cape Buffalo are made of marshmallows in his opinion, but it doesn't mean it's true. | |||
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There are a number of examples where knowledgeable and informed individuals, with many years of hunting experience, have come on this site to share information only to have their credibility attacked. Richard Harland is one such person that comes to mind. No surprise that a number of those individuals have determined that they have far better ways to spend their time than to be attacked by cyberspace hunting gurus. I am not suggesting that everyone has to agree with everything they say, but there are respectful ways to disagree. The one constant is that the Forum is diminished and seemingly continues to slide downwards in quality. Mike | |||
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I suspect the gist of Kevin's post is simply about awareness and to a certain degree an education. The difficulty is to implement it over a 7 day period. If it advantageous to our sport then I am all ears. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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