JPK, didn't you put 2 458 Win Mag solids in an Elephants head and your PH put a 470 Nitro round in it's head also and the Elephant got away?

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
JPK, didn't you put 2 458 Win Mag solids in an Elephants head and your PH put a 470 Nitro round in it's head also and the Elephant got away?

Yes, and the incident makes my point. We were in very thick jess with the bull at seven or eight yards and coming quickly. I missed the brain and failed to kill him, in fact managing to double my rifle while at it. The PH fired his 470 imeadiately following my shots. It wasn't pretty or perfect and cost me about $35k, but the bull was turned and no one got tusked or crushed.

Reviewing film footage later, you can see my two bullets impact the bulls head, the first too low since as I was shooting he was dropping his head to kill (making the bullet entry spot on his head I judged needed to reach the brain too low so the bullet passed beneath his brain as I failed to adjust to his head's changing attitude), the second too high because of the doubling screw up, with the second trigger being slapped inadvertantly while under recoil from the first shot. My two shots were but a moment apart, and they turned the bull's head a good 45 degrees with his front legs following, but turning less (as later determined by watching the film.)

After reviewing the film, the PH tried to appologize to me, telling me that in the video it was clear that the charge was stopped and done by the time he shot and that he should have killed the bull with a heart shot, if nothing else saving us all of the fruitless but expensive time spent following him up, as was our obligation.

I would have none of the appology because it simply wasn't warranted. In the incredibly swift period that these up close things happen, you must react as your perceptions and instincts tell you, there really isn't any time for deliberate thought. The PH thought the elephant was still charging in that merest fraction of a moment between my shots and his. I thought so too. Only slow motion and repeated viewing revealed otherwise. His shot was made to save my bacon, his bacon and that of our two trackers, game scout, Appy and cameraman. It was the prudent shot, no question, no doubt.

So far as the PH missing (or me for that matter,) well, just imagine the relative motion that roughly six inch or so spot that would lead to the brain was making as first the bull was charging, turning, accelerating and dropping his head and then as he was turned by the impact of my bullets and wheeling to get out of dodge. Despite all of the self-professed internet experts and all of the internet perfection, it just isn't as easy or cut and dried as some would have you believe. And that is why Taylor hunted with a 450NE No2 or a 465H&H and had a gun bearer carying a 577NE or 600NE and almost all professional or serial elephant hunter had similar rifles in similar cartridges. Nychens with the 450NE, Cedegren with the 500NE, Harlan with the 458wm, the list could go on and on.

Not to wander too far off topic, but here is how all of this began and incredibly rapidly unfolded:

We were not pursuing this elephant (but we would have given the chance, he had very nice ivory.) In very thick and still green jess he crossed our scent line down wind at maybe 20-25yds or so and turned upwind to hunt for us.

Neither the PH or I could see him but we could hear him as he came quickly through the jess. The number 2 tracker, or perhaps the game scout, who was behind us was the first to get a glimpse of the bull since the guy was standing on a termite mound behind us. Who ever it was, the number 2 tracker or gamescout, alerted the PH to the range and direction (I presume since I don't speak Shona) and the PH hustled us back to the termite mound maybe three or four yards behind us and on our right side if we were looking toward the bull. We'd walked past the mound just moments before.

We retreated to the far side of the termite mound which was maybe two or three yards tall and old and sloping. There was a large tree growing out of the termite mound, as is often the case, and we put this tree between us and where the elephant was coming from. So at this point the elephant could have come to the right or left of the mound to clear the tree. The Ph expected him on the right side and told me so.

At maybe fifteen yards I got my first glimpse of his head along, with a flash of his ivory, and back or flanks through the jess, but he, or at least his head, was quickly out of sight. It appeared to me that he was moving at about a thirty degree angle to the mound, on the right side, and would pass by the mound just beyond the jess bushes at the base of the mound. Like he was going to overshoot or pass on by and keep going.

The Ph was nearer the tree on the mound than I, and so higher, and he apparently got a better look at the bull. At some point the PH said something like, "He's got nice ivory..." but that was not high on my list of priorities at the moment! In fact, I never really got a good look at his ivory until viewing the film since when I did get a view of him I was trying to place his zygomatic arches for a frontal brain shot. He did have very nice ivory, btw.

IIRC, and I'd have to view the film to be sure, I think the PH told me to side brain him if the opportunity presented itself. But it never did since the only view of him was small blotches of grey though the jess as he continued on that ~30 degree angle "past" the mound.

When the ele was about abreast of my position on the mound, which put him just past the PH if you drew a 90 degree line from the mound, he either turned slightly or I had miscalculated his 30 degree angle, but his forehead broke through the jess at about nine yards.

Just after his eyes cleared the jess, the bull saw us and turned his head to look at us. Without breaking stride, and while actually accelerating, he turned to continue on and began to drop his head as he stepped up on the termite mound's slope.

The rest is related above...

Too me, incidents like this one, which happened in the proverbial flash, with only maybe ten seconds between first becoming aware of a possible problem - by hearing brush breaking downwind but coming toward us - and having to shoot to save yourself or someone else and where the circumstances change rapidly - the elephant apparently on a course to pass by, but then breaking through the jess closer than you thought he was, and then charging and putting his head down - are more than sufficient proof that elephants are best hunted with large calibre rifles.

465H&H mentions in a different thread, accurately, that the success rate for frontal brain shots, even under the best and easiest circumstance isn't all that high, even for the most experienced elephant hunters or pros. And Will mentions in that same thread, big bore rifles are called stoppers, not brainers; for the reason that a much lighter rifle can brain and elephant, but not vice versa.

Would I be sitting here typing this if I'd had a 375H&H instead of a big bore? I'm not sure but perhaps not. If my PH had had a 375H&H? Same answer.

Before someone goes on and on about how you can rely on the PH and how a client's rifle needn't be a stopper and that line of bull, I'll point out that acouple of years ago Buzz Charlton told me, after I'd shot my ninth or tenth elephant, that at that point I had more elephant hunting experience, either as a shooter or as an observer, than 95% of Zimbabwe PH's, who are the best trained and best tested dangerous game PH's in Africa.

Let me ask this before the $65k question: I've killed twelve elephants, would you trust me to save your bacon in an elephant charge? Now consider that I've got more elephant experience, especially more shooting experience, than 95% of Zim PH's, the best trained and tested, as a whole, in all of Africa.

So, you really want to trust your PH to save your bacon in an elephant charge, eh?

JPK

Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun.

I have been following this thread with some interest, and offer the following observations:
1. There are head shots when the elephant is not charging, and then there are head shots when it IS charging. The former are easier than the latter, but still not (for me at least) necessarily easy. The former could well be taken using a 375 H&H (or similar) rifle with which one is very familiar and has a high degree of confidence. The PH is still there to provide extra rounds (and coaching) to ensure that the elephant is killed.
2. The charging elephant scenario is different, dependent on whom is hunting whom! Luck seems to play a significant role as it is hard to practice this (close range brain) shot. Even at a zoo it is hard to get close enough to visualise the angle. No coaching! Large calibers seem to be better (assuming familiarity with the firearm) but provide no guarantee of success, even after repeated hits in the neighborhood of the brain.
It seems to me that this is what DG hunting is all about. No guarantees, even with the best equipment and, PH etc.
Conclusion: At 50-60 yards I would attempt a brain shot (given the opportunity) with a scope sighted 375 H&H or 416 Rigby. At closer ranges, I would use a 450 x 3 1/4.
Never hunted an elephant!
Peter.

Although I never hunted ele,if I wanted to,I would use a Lott and seriously consider the 550gr Woodleigh FMJ and IMR 4350.The bore would be in new or almost new like condition to bite into the tough jacket and send the bullet with a deadly spiral.

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Originally posted by shootaway:
The bore would be in new or almost new like condition to bite into the tough jacket and send the bullet with a deadly spiral.

....and I Gaurantee no ele would get up ever again.

And, oh, I forgot: Talk is cheap.

And humorous sometimes!

I might have to prove it sometime.

The proof is in the pudding, not the pud.
Are ya kidding me? I mean seriously?
Damn...
Brian

JPK,

By the way, great story.

Those who have hunted elephant and recommend the 375 caliber cartridges usually have only killed one or two and have never experienced a charge. Ten or a dozen elephants and one or two charges make a big bore believer out of you.

465H&H

Heart shot or head shot?

JPK and WIll, when do you make that decision?

Andy

quote:

Originally posted by Andy:
Heart shot or head shot?

JPK and WIll, when do you make that decision?

Andy

Buy my book!

In a charge I doubt taking a chest shot will be as effective in turning a charge but I did it once, and it worked.

To be honest, I believe it is just instinct to try to brain it. Not much time to write down a decision tree.

So Will, A 495 A-Square that you're comfortable with and can shoot well would be enough gun?

Regards,
Chuck

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Those who have hunted elephant and recommend the 375 caliber cartridges usually have only killed one or two and have never experienced a charge. Ten or a dozen elephants and one or two charges make a big bore believer out of you.

465, equally amusing is people coming to Africa and becoming an expert in just 1-3 hunts...
Luckily, you said "usually" above, not always. I am not the authority on elephant, having hunted only 46 so far, and having faced a total of 5 charges by elephant so far, but I still believe that a good shot is not undergunned with a 9.3 or a .375.
Maybe I should elaborate a bit on 3 of the charges, as they had missed brain shots.
1) bull, wounded, swung around and came from about 25 yards, client shot him with a 600, narrowly missing the brain, going into the neck at an angle, i shot with my 450 Rigby, hit the brain, and it went down. As our shots were so close together, I could not tell what happened because of the missed brain shot, it sure as hell did not drop, but it might have stopped it.
2) cow, unwounded, charged from around 30 yards, client shot too high with his 404 (marginally), second client shot with his 9.3x62, way too high, agent shot with his 470 (in all fairness, through the ear lobe.) I was sitting on my haunches, when the charge started, and fired from this possision, going low on the trunk, hitting the brain and dropping it. Interesting that before the killing shot, the elephant did not even flinch, nor did it stop the charge.
3) cow, wounded. At the wounding shot, (with a 9.3x64) the cow spun around and came for us from 40 yards. The client fired again, low in the head (with the lowly 9.3), and the elephant lost her confidence for a charge, and stopped. I fired a shot into her face, too low for the brain, while she was undecided what to do. (at this stage, she was about 20 yards away.) She swung up her head, and started another non- determent charge, this time the client and myself fired the same time, scramlbing the brains.
Now if you wnat to draw any conclusions from single incenets like the above or your own experience, the only one that I can drawn with any confidence, is that shot placement is the most important aspect of all. I firmly beleive that most clients can shoot a .375 better than even a standard .458, so therefor prefer them to use the .375.

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the only one that I can drawn with any confidence, is that shot placement is the most important aspect of all. I firmly beleive that most clients can shoot a .375 better than even a standard .458, so therefor prefer them to use the .375.

Karl,

No argument there but how many elephant of the others you have hunted were knocked down or knocked out on flubbed brain shots, not including the charges?

Like I said before there are no guarantees that anything is going to knock down an elephant or turn a charge, but I would conclude that a bigger gun has a much better chance than a 375.

A client or anyone else may be best served by a 375 but unless they are a "crack shot" that knows where the brain is from every angle and can pull it off when under duress, what does it really matter? I'd rather use a 30-06 but that isn't going to happen!

Are you trading in your 450 Rigby?

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Originally posted by Karl S:

quote:

Those who have hunted elephant and recommend the 375 caliber cartridges usually have only killed one or two and have never experienced a charge. Ten or a dozen elephants and one or two charges make a big bore believer out of you.

465, equally amusing is people coming to Africa and becoming an expert in just 1-3 hunts...
Luckily, you said "usually" above, not always. I am not the authority on elephant, having hunted only 46 so far, and having faced a total of 5 charges by elephant so far, but I still believe that a good shot is not undergunned with a 9.3 or a .375.
Maybe I should elaborate a bit on 3 of the charges, as they had missed brain shots.
1) bull, wounded, swung around and came from about 25 yards, client shot him with a 600, narrowly missing the brain, going into the neck at an angle, i shot with my 450 Rigby, hit the brain, and it went down. As our shots were so close together, I could not tell what happened because of the missed brain shot, it sure as hell did not drop, but it might have stopped it.
2) cow, unwounded, charged from around 30 yards, client shot too high with his 404 (marginally), second client shot with his 9.3x62, way too high, agent shot with his 470 (in all fairness, through the ear lobe.) I was sitting on my haunches, when the charge started, and fired from this possision, going low on the trunk, hitting the brain and dropping it. Interesting that before the killing shot, the elephant did not even flinch, nor did it stop the charge.
3) cow, wounded. At the wounding shot, (with a 9.3x64) the cow spun around and came for us from 40 yards. The client fired again, low in the head (with the lowly 9.3), and the elephant lost her confidence for a charge, and stopped. I fired a shot into her face, too low for the brain, while she was undecided what to do. (at this stage, she was about 20 yards away.) She swung up her head, and started another non- determent charge, this time the client and myself fired the same time, scramlbing the brains.
Now if you wnat to draw any conclusions from single incenets like the above or your own experience, the only one that I can drawn with any confidence, is that shot placement is the most important aspect of all. I firmly beleive that most clients can shoot a .375 better than even a standard .458, so therefor prefer them to use the .375.

Karl!

I try very hard to chose my words carefully when talking about elephant hunting. That I may not always be successful is another matter. I didn't start posting my own opinions on here until after I had taken my 12th elephant and was in on a couple of others. As I approach my long term goal of two dozen personal elephants I find my opinions not noticeably changing although with every elephant my experience level widens. Hopefully. I will keep an open mind and change my opinion as warranted by my experience.
I can not argue with your logic that the majority of new elephant hunters can not handle the added recoil and weight of a rifle over 9.3 or 375 caliber. A charge or two seems to give incentive to learning to handle the added recoil of a larger caliber. I would ask you why you carry a 450 Rigby as a back up if the 375 is so suitable for elephant hunting?

465H&H

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I would ask you why you carry a 450 Rigby as a back up if the 375 is so suitable for elephant hunting?

465 and Bill, the reason I chose a 450 Riigby are twofold: first, as already mentioned, I have very little control over the first shot, and might be requiried to shoot a body shot as back-up, where I do believe a bigger caliber is better. 2nd, I love shooting big guns (wonder what Freud would have said), and beleive I can handle it very well.
Bill, as to your question on how many ele's where knocked down/ stunned by a botched brain shot- I would guesstimate about 60-70%. The thing is just that it happened with anything from a 9.3x62 to a .600NE, and in my opinion, the caliber did not matter much, the proximity to the brain made the difference. Of course, to make such a conclution statistically significant one would have to shoot a few hundred ele's with diffent calibers and dissect all the heads yourself afterwards. But some the discrepancies made me challenge conventional wisdom, that a bigger bullet/ energy/ whatever "knocks an elephant down". These include above explanations, as well as others. For instance, a hunter shot an elephant cow with a 9.3x62 from around 15 yards, side brain shot, the cow drops on her face at the shot, struggled to her feet, and receives several other 9.3 and 458 bullets as she regains her footing. (the clients friend also carried a .450 Rigby). After she went down, we find that the first 286gr 9.3 bullet has tumbled, probably due to hitting a (very thin) branch on the way. It hit at what I whould have judged to be the right spot, and veered off slightly to the front. It penetrated poorly, as can be expected, stopping short of the brain, even if it penetrated straigher. She still dropped to the shot. Would a bigger bullet have made a difference? IMO no.

Karl and 465, perhaps I should start a new thread, but what is your opinion on the larger calibers vs. the 375 H&H for buffalo? I'm about to (this fall) have my 375 H&H rebarreled to 495 A-Square (I want a bigger rifle anyway) but am curious. I'm happy to start a new thread, just would want both of your inputs.

Regards,
Chuck

Chuck!

In my opinion the 375 H&H is an excellent buffalo caliber. Plenty of power and in a light enough package that most can carry it over long tramps with ease. I really don't think you gain enough with a much larger caliber on buff to make it worth packng the extra weight to keep recoil at acceptable limits. If the 375 has a fault as a buff gun it is that it has too much penetration for use in a herd situation. But if a 495 makes your clock run have at it.

465H&H

chuck, as buff are mostly "body-shot", a bigger caliber will kill it quicker. having said that, I agree with 465, the 375 is an excellent choice for buffalo hunting, though i prefer something bigger on a charge (once again, more likely to shoot for the body on a charge, and then the bigger calibers makes a difference.)
Percentage wise, i guess more of my clients have pulled off one shot kills with scoped 9.3's and 375's than the bigger calibers (mostly open-sighted).

Thanks much to both of you! You may have just saved me a bunch of money which will go to my Safari savings account.

Regards,
Chuck

quote:

Originally posted by Karl S:
465, equally amusing is people coming to Africa and becoming an expert in just 1-3 hunts...

Words of almost Biblical proportion.

This is a very entertaining thread. To stephen I would say use what every you want to use. The 375 will work if used carefully and precisely.

I'm a little like the gal that said " I've been rich and I've been poor and rich is better. " Well I've shot elephants with a 375 and I've shot elephants with a 577 and being the coward that I am the 577 is better.

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but I still believe that a good shot is not undergunned with a 9.3 or a .375.

Karl,

Would you please stop making such common sense remarks?!

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but I still believe that a good shot is not undergunned with a 9.3 or a .375.

Karl,

Would you please stop making such misleading remarks?!

In all of this there is hidden the old argument that such and such cartridge is capable of killing an elephant, just as in this thread it is the 9.3x62 and the 375 H&H. Well, that is quite true but it is not the point.

In the extreme one can dredge up the Bell and 7x57 argument. That the 7x57 can kill an elephant is quite true but is it a charge stopper? Maybe, if the hunter can't miss the brain. But that isn't going to happen in but very rare cases.

But if one believes that a 9.3 or 375 will stop a charge with a missed brain shot, then have at it.

quote:

But if one believes that a 9.3 or 375 will stop a charge with a missed brain shot, then have at it

Bill, I do not believe that ANY handheld rifle will RELIABLY STOP a charge with a missed brain shot. So if someone believes a big caliber will, by all means believe that. I will stick to trying to hit the brain thank you very much. (Sorry for the logic again Saeed...)

quote:

But if one believes that a 9.3 or 375 will stop a charge with a missed brain shot, then have at it

Bill, I do not believe that ANY handheld rifle will RELIABLY STOP a charge. So if someone believes a big caliber will, by all means believe that. I will stick to trying to hit the brain thank you very much. (Sorry for the logic again Saeed...)

Karl,

I try to be objective in all of this, as it is just for fun, on the internet anyway, but using the little stuff to stop elephant flies in the face of the beliefs, and I suppose for good reason, and the experiences of elephant hunters for over a hundred years. But they could have been, and may still be, wrong.

Well I do want a bigger gun, so a 470 Capstick would be a logical step up, and should be a relatively easy upgrade from my 375 H&H. No one has ever questioned the 470 NE as being sufficient for elephant and buff as far as I know, and the Capstick's a little more gun ... I want to keep the recoil in the area where I can still shoot well

Regards,

Chuck

Chuck, it's great to ask questions but in the end, do what you want as long as it is the legal minimum and you can handle the gun properly. In the end, we all end up doing what we want anyway. You're getting comments from the web forum owner, a PH or two and some guys that like to hunt elephants but none of us are paying your bills so in the end it's up to you.

I have said on several occasions, the 375 is suitable for animals such as antelopes high body mass, to the dangerous, a gun caliber for 416 or higher, if it can be a better Jeffery 500. The solution, practicing a lot, there in the U.S. believe that the ammunition is more affordable than in Spain, as you seize and shoot, knowing the weapon, its decline, its accuracy and then you do with it. Do not you resist any elephant, buffalo and other animals appear.

Oscar.

quote:

Originally posted by Karl S:

quote:

But if one believes that a 9.3 or 375 will stop a charge with a missed brain shot, then have at it

Bill, I do not believe that ANY handheld rifle will RELIABLY STOP a charge. So if someone believes a big caliber will, by all means believe that. I will stick to trying to hit the brain thank you very much. (Sorry for the logic again Saeed...)

I get a great laugh out of comments like this one, especially the part about trying to hit the brain.

All of those fellows, me included, who have missed the brain in a charge, we weren't really trying to hit the brain, eh? And no one who misses the brain with a big bore in a charge can shoot either, eh?

(BTW, I'm in damned good company in this group of elephant hunters who have missed the brain in a charge, including Taylor, Whittall, Duckworth, Thomson, Harland .... geez this list is LONG, and not least, it includes Karl S.)

But the fellow who shoots a 375 or 9.3 to stop a charge is never going to miss the brain, eh? His shooting will just always be perfect, eh?

BTW, those three elephants that you mention, all charged from damn far away. And you're shooting to stop them damn far away too. It gets a hell of a lot harder to brain a charging elephant the closer they get since the closer they get the greater the relative motion of the point of impact required to get to the brain. The head of this last one for me wasn't even visible for a shot until he was less than half the distance of the closest one of the three you describe and that is using the yardage to where yours stopped, not where it started!!!

JPK

25, 30, 40 yards....SNIPING EY?

I hunted in the Caprivi twice, and the PH and I walked up to quite a few of the Bots big-bodied bulls at about this distance. Most were side-on, and we discussed shot placement and how the hunts there usually unfold. They get the hunter all setup, on the sticks, usually with their scoped rifle, and talk them thru locating the brain from the ear hole, or spot of mud, etc. Or, they took a body shot, and in any event the PH was standing ready, rifle shouldered, to deliver the backup (often the actual killing) shot. Give me a .416 x, but the .375 sounds just fine for this, assuming my PH has something bigger. I assumed this was the way elephant were hunted everywhere.

But, then I hunted the jesse in Zim, and my PH and I got very close, 25-yards was just a starting point. Thicker cover, herds of cows, different philosophies. I started with a .416 scoped, and after one tuskless removed the scope, and for the bulls went for the .458 Lott. I have experienced a tuskless getting knocked down at 12-yards with a near-miss to the brain with a .416 400gr. Maybe a 300gr or 350gr would have done the same thing, I don't know. At 10-15 yards, especially if the elephant has just become aware of your presence, the fit of the gun and the shooter's ability to shoulder it and quickly find the brain is more important then accuracy. If you are going to miss, it is not likely because you didn't hit the spot you were aiming at - but you misjudged the angle or the angles changed - and you misjudged the location of the brain.

So to me it depends on where one will be hunting, time of the year, the PH's style, body vs head shot, etc. Personally, I feel very good about my Lott in elephant country, maybe too good. If it does not arrive with me on my next tuskless hunt to Zim, I WILL hunt with a borrowed .375 if there is no other option, but I suspect that I will modify my hunt slightly, such as instead of trying for a confrontational frontal brain on an aware ele, go for a side-brain and/or increase the distance/buffer a bit so if there is a charge from the tuskless or another in the herd my PH has more of an opportunity to back me up.

Opinions change over time, I know mine did. Some years back there was a similar thread, at that time New_Guy was very enthusiastic about the .375 for elephant…I'd be curious if he still holds the same opinion for all hunting conditions.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill C:
At 10-15 yards, especially if the elephant has just become aware of your presence, the fit of the gun and the shooter's ability to shoulder it and quickly find the brain is more important then accuracy. If you are going to miss, it is not likely because you didn't hit the spot you were aiming at - but you misjudged the angle or the angles changed - and you misjudged the location of the brain.

That's a very good point. I think it really is more a matter of knowing where to shoot then it is of missing what you are aiming at. I shot just in front of the brain on a quartering to shot but hit what I was aiming at...many others I have talked to have similar stories. The angles can change so quickly and sometimes they are just darned elusive to begin with!

quote:

Originally posted by yukon delta:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill C:
At 10-15 yards, especially if the elephant has just become aware of your presence, the fit of the gun and the shooter's ability to shoulder it and quickly find the brain is more important then accuracy. If you are going to miss, it is not likely because you didn't hit the spot you were aiming at - but you misjudged the angle or the angles changed - and you misjudged the location of the brain.

That's a very good point. I think it really is more a matter of knowing where to shoot then it is of missing what you are aiming at. I shot just in front of the brain on a quartering to shot but hit what I was aiming at...many others I have talked to have similar stories. The angles can change so quickly and sometimes they are just darned elusive to begin with!

AMEN!

465H&H

Thanks Yukon, if my 375's recoil wasn't so mild I'd probably have stopped right there. So I am definitely going to go up a couple of notches and make sure I'm able to shoot it well off hand both with and without scope before I go after anything that bites, claws, tusks or stomps.

Thanks for an interesting discussion,

Chuck

quote:

At 10-15 yards, especially if the elephant has just become aware of your presence, the fit of the gun and the shooter's ability to shoulder it and quickly find the brain is more important then accuracy. If you are going to miss, it is not likely because you didn't hit the spot you were aiming at - but you misjudged the angle or the angles changed - and you misjudged the location of the brain.

BillC, you have captured the essence of the issue. I'd add that for me, the relative motion is more of a problem than knowing where the brain is, at least I think so. (I'll let you know for sure in another dozen elephants or so, should I be so lucky to have those opportunities.)

And the relative motion only gets greater the closer the ele gets, getting worse by the stride if it is coming.

JPK