I've used Nosler's, Trophy Bonded Bear Claws, Woodleigh's and Swift A Frames over the years and finally settled on the Swift A frames. I never liked Barnes because I had one deviate badly with my .416 on a whitetail.

But I recently returned from Tanzania and the Ph spoke highly of Barnes bullets and preferred them to the Swift's. I'd like your thoughts.
I still like the Swift A Frame, but am open to suggestions.

There isn't really a bad bullet among the ones you've mentioned. I'll be shooting Trophy Bonded Bearclaws and Cutting Edge Raptors in my .416 for my upcoming buffalo bunt. I'll be sure to post my thoughts with pictures after I'm finished.

Nowadays, the bullet you shoot has as much or more to do with what you can obtain as it does bullet preference

I like both the A frame and the TSX about the same for dangerous game.

I feel the TSX penetrates a little better, while the Aframe expands a bit more reliably.

I've had "issues" with both, but killed the animal with both. (core separation with decreased penetration with an A frame, and non expansion a couple times with the TSX.)

If you want straight line penetration, go to a wide meplat solid, not an expanding bullet, its my experience that anything that changes shape can do strange angle changes in the animal.

Just my observational experience, which is no where near enough #'s to be statistically reliable. As far as expanding bullets, my top 3 are A frame, TSX, and TBBC; all about equal.

I have used the Bearclaws in 338 Win Mag, 300 Win Mag and 7 mm Rem Mag on moose in Yukon, sheep and goats in the US and the Stan countries. Performed great. I have used A Frame in 375 HH on Buffalo in Zim. Performed great. But nothing sent the buffalo to the ground like the Cutting Edge Raptor in 450 NE. Heavy caliber though, but that bullet impressed me.

Morten

Barnes X, TSX then TTSX has been my “go to” in my 375 H&H since 2000 when it was just the “X”. Accuracy is insane good and it’s a reliable bullet in the larger calibers.

I have used Swift A-Frame in 470 NE, 450 Dakota and 416 Rem on Buffalo with very good results. The ones I recovered were picture perfect.

I did have problems with the earlier X in 30-06. The stories of it not expanding were not exaggerated. I have never gone back in the 30 cal bullet, while I’m sure it’s been remedied, I lost faith in them.

Some bullets recovered from game animals:

I've shot a lot of buffalo with Barnes X and TSX bullets in a 375 H&H, 458 Lott and a 460 WBY over the years. I've shot some between the eyes from 30 to 75 yards with great performance for a soft. I'm taking my double to the Selous next month for buff and will be using 500gr Hornady DGX and Barnes TSX bullets. I've noticed over the years that some of the Barnes softs shot with the 460 tend to come apart when paying the insurance, the bullet clearly isn't designed for impact at that velocity.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
...I never liked Barnes because I had one deviate badly with my .416 on a whitetail.

Wow. I never would have expected any 416 to have deviated in a whitetail. What happened?

The problem with TSX bullets in some calibers/rifles is that given that the bullets are mono-metal they tend to be quite long. In rifles with slower twist rates, the rifles simply cannot adequately stabilize the bullets.

Never had a problem with Barnes or Swift on buff but prefer CEB Safari Raptors.

I recommend the SAF and TSX to clients. Either works well on buffalo and basically everything else. The Barnes TSX does give more often through and through penetration. Personally I've found the Barnes TSX and TTSX to give stellar accuracy in a variety of rifles with little load development.

Mark

CEB Raptors and Solids, and Peregrine Bushmasters. Brian

Another vote for 416 raptors awesome performance . I made a liver shot on a Buffalo
the petals created 6 slices and the core created a huge shred hole the Buffalo ran 30 yards and died

You just cannot go wrong with Barnes TSX as an all-round bullet and certainly bad medicine for Buffalo.

T-Bonded Bear Claws are not to be sneered at though their only setback is the tendency for the petals to break off when hitting solid bone but will ultimately get the job done.

North fork in my .405 and .458 rifles.
Choose solid, cup point solid, or semi spitzer.

Rare to recover bullet from game as most shoot through!

Second choice included Punch solids and Kodiaks from Alaska Bullet Works. Also mostly shoot throughs.

Two holes to bleed out any life left after bullet pass through.

BTW, Where did Muttley go?

I prefer Barnes TTSX in the calibers available and TSX in the larger calibers. They have proven to be the most accurate in my rifles (or maybe I just developed better loads with them).

I tried several different 500 gr bullets when I was working up a load for my .458 Win Mag.

My particular rifle liked Woodleighs best. I got about 2100 fps MV with Weldcores and solids. The solids, for some reason, opened up slightly, while the softs cloverleafed at 50 yards.

The load worked well enough for my son to make a one-shot kill on a Cape buffalo with the Weldcore, although the PH had him put 2 solids in the buff for "insurance."

Used North Forks on my last trip. 500 Gr in my 470 and 370 gr. in my 416 Rem. All solid shank softs.
Picture perfect mushrooms when I found the bullet (Not Often).
Shot a Buffalo at about 25 yds broadside with the 470. He lost his rear end on the shot (sat down like a dog) then ran 15-20 yds and stone dead.
Shot through both shoulders and exited. Was pushing it at about 2200 fps.

I forgot, I used a 300 gr NorthFork Cup point Solid in 375HH. Buffalo facing me, bullet went perfectly straight deep into the gut. One shot kill, ran 30 yds.

There’s only one Cape buffalo bullet for me these days, and that’s the Barnes TSX — 500 grainers in my .450 Rigby, and 570 grainers in my .500 A-Square.

I use them because they always work.

Barnes TSX and TTSX. That's all!!

In my 375 H&H Barnes TSX 300 gn. Also want to try TSX 270 gn one day.
Have also tried Woogleighs and North Fork 300 gn bullets which I think worked OK but the TSX is penetration king in my book.

quote:

Originally posted by 30.06king:
In my 375 H&H Barnes TSX 300 gn. Also want to try TSX 270 gn one day.

I used 270 gr TSX in my .375 earlier this month, always used 300 gr TSX before this trip. Shot a bull at about 75 yards quartering to the left, shot just inside the point of the shoulder, buff ran about 100 yards. Bullet exited from right hip. Couldn’t ask for better performance.

My preference for buffalo has been TSX .375, .458 Lott, Gibbs .505 and .577 NE. Tried Woodleighs, NF, also but expansion and accuracy are the reason for TSX.

I've found the Noslers to be a bit too soft a bullet especially on frontal shots on buffalo. All the others did well, but the Swift A Frames have performed flawlessly. I don't want full pass through on buffalo, so that is a concern from one of the comments above about the Barnes.

As to the question on what happened with the Barnes deviating on the whitetail, it was a very big bodied old whitetail for South Texas (field dressed 175), down to a six point. Perfect cull buck. Was dead broadside at about 100 yards. Took a behind the shoulder shot to save meat. Shot entered just behind the shoulder, and I heard a ricochet. Strange. Deer dropped at the shot. He should have run. Shouldn't have heard a ricochet.

Entry was tight behind the shoulder. Perfect. Barnes bullet took a hard right and deviated up, exiting through the top of the off shoulder, taking out the shoulder blade and spine. No, he was not quartering and that wouldn't explain the upward deviation anyway.

Appreciate everyone's comments, but haven't heard anything that indicates I should change from the Swifts. Have some new bullets to consider though. Gives me some comfort that I could use Barnes if necessary. Thanks.

I've had great results with the A-Frame on buffalo. Both 375 H&H with 300 grain and 470 NE with 500 grain. I love the Barnes for pretty much everything else, so that is also a great choice. Got back last month from S. Africa. Took a very nice buff at 25 yards with the 470 A-Frame. Have recovered and weighed 3 A-Frame bullets on 3 different buffalo and all had weight retention of 90%+. My only challenge with the Barnes is getting the velocity I need (matching regulation characteristics) without pushing pressure limits. At least that's been the case with my double rifle.

For my bolt actions, the Barnes is my first choice. Accurate as heck, great penetration, and easy to load for. I am not a fan of the Hornady DGX, by the way, for Buffalo. Seems a bit soft. Have used it on a couple of lions just because it is soft and expands a lot and loses mass much like a Nosler partition. Weighed one bullet that entered in the head and lodged in the hip. Lost most of the core, peeled back the jacket, and the 500 grain bullet weighed 302. Worked wonderfully for lions but I would not be anxious to use on buffalo. My two cents.

Shit anything big as a .416 should
be able to shoot a rock out of it
and do well. Especially on white tails.

George

Have had excellent results with Woodleigh's and Swift A Frames. Good expansion and weight retention.

Shame North Fork went out of production.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Shame North Fork went out of production.

Andrew…. North Fork bullets are being produced again over in the EU and being sold by Reloading International. It is a company based out of Oregon and they specialize in shipping reloading components around the globe. Check out their website as they recently received a new shipment of North Fork bullets.

I had used TSX pretty much exclusively since about '04 or so, but I'm rethinking it. I've also had a 300 Win take a right hand turn on an arapawa sheep in New Zealand- apparently this "necking over" is due to the hole being plugged up and the bullet has essentially turned into a FMJ and will turn a corner easily.

As far as in buffalo calibers I won't ever use a TSX again. Failure to expand in eland and bufffalo.

The PHs in Zim whom I've spoken with were really excited when the TSX first came onto the scene but as time wore on they've gone back to preferring A Frames. It has been suggested that in the bigger calibers, the metallurgy has changed and not for the better in that the "newer" ones require a bit more velocity to expand. Butch Coaton my PH in Zim was so displeased with the recovered bullets in my 3-7-5 that we used my 300 Win to shoot my lion as he felt that bullet would have a better chance of expanding. Both Ian Rutledge and Ian Batchelor just said "A Frames" when we showed them the recovered TSX.

Fortunately my 3-7-5 loves 300 gr A Frames and 65 gr of RL 15 shoots one hole.


.375 from eland and buffalo:




300 Win with full expansion on impala and zebra:




And 500 Nitro 570 gr A Frame and Barnes Solid from a buff and ele respectively:

FMC, that confirms my thoughts about the Barnes. I'll stick with Swift A Frames for buffalo.

Found a recovered .30 caliber Barnes, can't remember from what or what .30 cal. it was fired from. Could have been a .30-06 or one of the .300 magnums. Expansion wasn't bad, but not great. I'm sure penetration was great, but as pointed out, the velocity would have been higher than with the big or medium bores.

Used a 325 gr cast water quenched 45 caliber bullet to take this Cape Buffalo last month at 65 yds. The first shot broke the right front shoulder & passed completely through. The buff dropped to the ground on the right leg & it's nose, stood up & turned away from us & I shot it again through the ribs & vitals, dropping it in its tracks.
We recovered the second bullet, a 308 gr solid & it weighed 308 grs when I weighed it again.
Used the high shoulder shot on all the other animals with complete pass throughs except for the Zebra, recovered that 282 gr HP & it weighed 160 grs. Each animal dropped at the shot.








Five animals with six shots. FA 41 magnum on the Gemsbok & a 250 gr cast WFN.
Dick

Good shooting pistolero!
Love the wfn cast on game.

Sixshot,

Very good shooting/hunting. WFN cast bullets sure work!
May I as questions regarding the 325 gr. 45 cal on the buffalo?
- what was the MV?
- what cartridge was it?
- What was the BHN on the water quenched bullet?

I am very impressed and curious.
Thanks,
Brian

First let me say that I wasn't planning on shooting a Cape on this hunt but the owner made me such an offer I couldn't refuse, plus he had never had a revolver hunter in camp before & was curious to see how it would go. I had already taken the Nyala & the Zebra so he felt pretty good about it. What I didn't tell him was, I only had 2 solids with me, a 325 gr LBT in my pocket & a 308 gr. in my gun. I switched out a 282 gr HP when we quickly made the deal on a cow Buffalo (she's huge) and I closed to 65 yds & made the shot, with the 325 gr water quenched bullet passing clear through & almost dropping the buffalo on the spot, it did recover but didn't move so I gave it the second solid & that dropped it straight down.
We walked up & he said, Dick, a lot of people get killed by "dead" cape buffalo, so put one down through the spine between the shoulder blades, I did but it was already dead, probably from the first shot, just hadn't had time to tip over before I hit it with #2.
I was shooting my rebarreled bisley blackhawk 45 with an 8.5" barrel with a tight cylinder gap & the 325 gr bullet was going right at 1340 fps. I make the water quenched, powder coated bullets. Barrel work was by Bobby Tyler in Texas. The PH wanted a bullet for a souvenir!
Dick

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Shame North Fork went out of production.

Andrew,

North Fork is produced in Sweden now.


Morten

quote:

Originally posted by FMC:



.375 from eland and buffalo:

Hey Frank,

I'd have to say those TSX bullets are just about perfect really. They show approximately double caliber expansion at the tip and true to their nature as a mono, you've got that long shank behind the expansion that continues to drive forward. Remember being mono's, they are long for caliber so they won't necessarily have that "balanced" look of an A-Frame once it's mushroomed.

I've got several 375's that look just like yours here that I recovered from a brown bear as well as a couple from buffalo. I've got a couple of 350gr TSX bullets in 416 recovered from buffalo as well and because they are 50 grains lighter than the normal 400gr, they look more balanced.

I agree with Todd. I have a handful of recovered TTSX and TSX in 375, 338 and 308. They all look about the same.

I also don't think a one time deviation means much. I shot a Sitka blacktail behind the shoulder with a 210 gr NP and the bullet exited the brisket making a 90 degree turn. I have to believe a lot of hunters occasionally are left scratching their heads when they check their bullets path. I don't think there is a bullet that tracks straight everytime.

Mark