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If a person gets off the plane in Africa with a Rem 700 does the PH just shoot you right there with it..or do they allow these rifles on safari? I'm going to build either a 375 Weatherby (built one before,still have the reamer) or maybe a 416 Taylor or a 416 Rem on a 700 action. It will be in a new B&C stock that I picked up at a gunshow today. This is a NOS handle, weighs 40 ounces and has a 1-7/8" wide recoil pad. If I install a Timney trigger will the average PH even talk to me? Afterall it's not a Mauser derived controlled feed action with a firing pin blocking 3 position safety....just curious....Do most PH's prefer that you have detachable scope mounts and iron sights? I'm going to build the gun anyway...I hear it'll work for moose & elk. | ||
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Most PH's charge $100 per day extra if you hunt with a Remington 700...  | |||
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Rembo, I believe you will find that PHs care a lot less about what action your rifle is made from than some outdoor writers, many AR posters, and other psudo-experts. Most PHs I have talked to care most that their client be able to put that first shot in the boiler room. If you are able to do that best with a Model 700 Remington, then so be it. As far as whether or not your PH will turn turn his nose up at you when you get off the plane with that M-700, I dare say that there is not a PH in Africa that would say a word. Remember, you are the paying customer, and the customer is ALWAYS right! Now, plan that hunt! | |||
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Rembo, You build what you want...besides your shooting ability...the PH will care about your safe gun handling alot more than push feed vs CRF. Oh you know my god...I have been using push feed 700s for 25 yrs...and guess what I have had...zero failures. Must be the worst design in the world. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Ahhhh don't pay any attention to Rembo he's from Alberta near Edmonton. Lota Gas fumes around there.  But seriously a remington, you poor mislead soul.!  | |||
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In order of preference of my PH was: 1. Firearms safety 2. Firearms SAFETY 3. FIREARMS SAFETY! Swift, Silent, & Friendly | |||
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The beginning post in this discussion was, as I'm sure most could tell, was more than a bit "tongue in cheek".  Mike...I know how you feel..I've owned and shot at least 40 Rem 700's over the last 17 years and I've never had a bolt handle fall off, a trigger malfunction, an extractor break(we won't count the time I blew a case in a 223  ) and I have never broken the "cheap pot metal" trigger-guard. I hear stories about the above all the time...I feel so left out, why won't it happen to me? Yup,..there are a lot of gas fumes around here....keeps me employed | |||
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What about FIREARMS SAFETY and the Remington safeties that make the gun go boom unexpectedly when the safety is pushed forward to fire? Did Remington ever fix that, and they have gotten rid of the infamous J-lock haven't they? I don't keep up much with Remingtons, but recall that Ross Seyfried used a lightweight M700 .416 Remington when PH-ing in Africa. | |||
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Releasing the 700 safety will never fire the rifle unless it's been adjusted to less than miniumum sear engagement or pull weight,or has been severely neglected allowing the trigger assembly to fill up with dirt and debris, or if it's released with the finger on the trigger.Properly adjusted and maintained the 700 safety is a reliable as any other. I just dissassembled and adjusted the trigger on my L579 Sako a couple days ago. I'd rather have a 700 safety than this one. At least the 700 safety blocks the sear from falling, the Sako blocks the front of the trigger, like the Howa 1500 and some others. | |||
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Tell that to the forty-some people who have been shot when Rem700s discharged upon release of the safety. I have experienced that phenomena myself, but the bullet went into a woodpile. The rifle was 4 months old at the time. It was not dirty and it had not been adjusted. It was just plain defective and unsafe. A wise man will replace his factory M700 trigger with a Timney or Jewell to eliminate this unnecessary danger. | |||
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Had a brand new M-7 fire on safety release. Had a M-700 set of in my truck when my client released the safety to unload it. My brother had a .308 in a M-700 bust the extractor fresh out of the box. My buddy who is a DOD sniper and a M-700 fan always brings spare extractors to any compitition just in case he has another Remington moment. If you've ever looked at a M-70 opr a M-98 trigger you'd know why they don't get dirt in them and malfunction. Just because it hasn't happened to you YET doesn't mean it won't. With all that being said no. No PH will berate you for your choice of rifle. I would recomend that you top that rig with Tasco 4-14 mounted up on some see through weavers and emboss it with rhine stones. If you're gonna shoot a classy rig it oughts look classy..  | |||
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I showed up with a Remington 721 and my PH asked what caliber it was and I said......300 H&H. He thought a bit and finally said......."I guess we can make an exception for this gun this time." /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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A Remington ? OOOOOOOO now you went and did it ! You better have it custom painted with flames and warning labels.  LOL | |||
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In regards to the 40 peeps that got shot while their gun was on safety, you are always supposed to know what your muzzle is pointed at, and unload your rifle when entering the stand, climbing fences etc... you get the point, check the 10 commandments to gun safety. | |||
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I think most of these problems happened when Remington had the 2 position safety that had to be released before you could unload it - and normally happened when the trigger was pulled prior to the safety release. With the redesigned safety, now you should unload a M700 BEFORE you release the safety. If you are that worried about the safety, you can get a Gentry three position safety and a new trigger fitted. I'm one of those that started hunting with a M-7 and M-700s and I've still got the M-7 .260 Rem and a M-700 .308 - they will feed upside down BTW. Remingtons have the crispest triggers and the fastest locktimes. Almost all sniper rifles are M-700 or variants. However, my last three rifle purchases have been a M-70 .375 H&H, 98 Mauser 8x57, and MkII M-77 .338 Win Mag - notice they are all med and lg bore (the 98 destined to be a 9.3x62 one day). If you are going to carry a big stick, you've got to whack someone with it at least every once in while. | |||
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As Allen and others stated, if that's what you like, get it built, enjoy it and go hunting. Now if you ask for an opinion on 700s, that's another matter. jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Remebered this from a couple years ago: https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=518103&f=9411043&m=11510674&p=1 | |||
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Rembo, As others have stated most PH's have little interest in your rifle as long as it goes bang and the bullet lands in the right place. In my experience most PH's are far from rifle loonies. They see a rifle as a tool of their trade and that's about as far as their interest goes. They do usually have some strong feeling about what calibers work and what ones don't. Regards, Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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I don't think there is more than a handfull of PHs who will know the difference! Like most police officers, who depend on firearms to guard their very lives, but know absolutely nothing about firearms in general! Most will not say anything about your rifle other than ask what it is chambered for, and if you can shoot it well! The ones who know anything about M-700s will ask that you carry the chamber empty, and watch where you point it. That , however, goes for any firearm! I say if you want a M-700 rifle it's your right, and more power to you. I have several M-700s, but they are not used for dangerous game hunting, but are for deer, and P-dog shooting, where a malfunction has no dire consequences worse than an aborted hunt because of a broken rifle! Suffice to say, I don't understand spending all that money to build a DGR on a Rem M-700 action, when there are so many CRF actions about!  Wellllllll, what ever floats your boat!....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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What I find most amusing about the typical Remington debate is that it is commonly accepted that a Winchester M70 or a CZ out of the box will need a fair amount of work ( $$ ) to get it just so. Yet the same group of gun nuts refuses to accept that with a new trigger and safety the Rmington is just as much gun at less cost even though it is a push feed just like the model 70 was for so long. | |||
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Been using 700's for all sorts of game (from woodchucks to elephants) for 40 years now. Guess I must be living on borrowed time Rich Elliott Rich Elliott Ethiopian Rift Valley Safaris | |||
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Just as much gun at lest cost? I don't think so. While it is arguably true that a SOME 70s will need some tuning,it is minor and what makes you think a 700 won't? when you add the glued on bolt handle, riveted extractor prone to failure, particularly succeptible to debris and the safety issue it's not even close. The armed forces for example have to spend an inordinate amount of time refurbishing 700 to get them to specs, something that was unheard of when Model 70s were the rifles used. The ONLY reason the military switched was that Winchester stopped making them (pre-64s) and Remington was able to beat leverage the contract with economies of scales. Further, why is it that the overwhelming choice of Professional Hunters prefer Mauser 98 actions ( or derivatives therein) over the 700. Moreover, Remington, by their own admission stopped making CRFs long ago because of the high cost of production, just like Winchester did when they went to pushfeed. It was only with the advent of CNC machining technology that Winchester was able to resusitate the CRF 70. You can hunt all you want with a 700 and if you prefer them that's fine too, only don't try to sell it as a substitute for the Mauser or 70s, becasue it never will be.jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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GAHUNTER has it right, they could give a rats ass what kind of gun you have. They want to know how heavy your bullets are and in what caliber and if you can shoot it worth a damn. On my first safari we had between us a Merkel S/S, 2 Browning A-Bolts and a Remington 700. There were 4 PH's and an apprentice and not one asked about makes or models, only what caliber and how heavy a bullet each one shot. Personally, I would strongly advise anyone with a 700 to have a Sako style extractor installed before you take the gun afield. The stock Remington extractor probably won't fail but it is little more than a 10 cent piece of metal about the size of a fingernail clipping and I just don't trust them. DC300 DC300 | |||
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I like the Remingtons I own. I am less concerned with the extractor breaking than I am with that triiger/safety system. I havent put Sako type extractors on any of them but I have given them Timney triggers and Gentry safetys. I agree that the most important gun safety feature is the one between your ears. Of course you should know where the muzzle is pointed at all times. However people become complacent and careless... At any rate the PH wont give a damn what make your rifle is as long as you handle it safely, it is of an appropriate caliber, and you can put the first shot where it needs to be. Happiness is a warm gun | |||
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Hello, If I had spent a fortune on rifle built on a long claw extractor type action,fixed ejector, be it Win. or a Mauser, and was steeped in African lore and drama and accomplished my childhood dreams of hunting in Africa, hell, I would defend the rifle as well, but let's not get carried away with the hype of "old school" firearms and tradition. Rem. 700's are some of the most accepted sporting arms action in the world today, bar none! It is highly regarded in military/law enforcement circles as well and pretty well dominates in that arena. In reality, it is somewhat doubtfull that Winchester will continue in business as we know it. (It would not be here now if Browning had not picked it up to keep it going.) There are clones out there for those insisting on using the actions though, so all is not lost!! If you really do not like the Remingtons and and want ultimate traditional sporting rifles, the Ruger M77 offers all the Win. does and more for the dollar invested. Accuracy would be on a par and caliber selection just as broad with no extreme wait time and a much more reasonable cost to the hunter. But, for me the Remington would do very nicely, and as others have said, the PH or guide could care less what action you have, but if you are a safe gun handler and also if you can SHOOT STRAIGHT and thirdly if you can follow directions. Favor Center!! dsiteman | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by MacD37: I don't think there is more than a handfull of PHs who will know the difference! Like most police officers, who depend on firearms to guard their very lives, but know absolutely nothing about firearms in general!/QUOTE] That made me smile. When I went to Africa I noticed one of the PH's had an older rifle that I did not recognize. I asked him what it was, he replied, "A .375". I said, "no, I mean what kind of action is that, what brand?" His reply, "I don't know. It's a .375 H&H, why does the brand matter?" Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery! Hit the target, all else is twaddle. | |||
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dsiteman, While I applaud most of your remarks, I must ask what makes you think Winchester is going to disappear? With the addition of the WSM calibers plus a return to the sainted "pre-64" action, they have enjoyed a hugh resurge in sales. Model 70 Featherweights are selling better than ever. Plus, Browning does not own Winchester firearms (more properly known as United States Repeating Arms Company), they are both owned by a Belgian conglomerate. They purchased USRAC to make money,not to "save" the company. I don't see them disappearing anytime soon. DC300 DC300 | |||
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I would not hunt with a push feed, but I don't know any PHs who care what you use as long as its legal... Rip, Ross is a bad example, he never used the same gun twice in his life and one never knows what he is going to show up with, I know he used a Blaser in 416 Tayor one season and a Sharps, and an assortment of pistols...When you can shoot like Ross you can get away with anything, but don't pass him off as a consistant Rem 700 user, he is not, far from it... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I guess I am really missing the boat here. I have shot and used Remington 700's since I was 12. I started with an 8mmMag and now have the .375 ultra. I have never had a problem with one jamming, or not feeding the bullet. I have hunted extensively in Alaska for the past 23 years and have been in some hairy situations and needed a VERY quick shot and the Rem has never failed. Not saying that there can't be a problem, but I haven't seen any that I have heard or read about on this board and others. I am sure that the African PH's put their guns through some serious tests, but mine are used and abused in Alaska, whether it is thrown in a plane, ran for miles on an atv, thrown in the boat, sat outside in the rain during the sheep hunt, outside on my back on the snowmachine for 100 miles at -20. The gun has never failed. Keeping it clean and then free of grease in the winter surely helps. Just my two cents. | |||
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Hello DC300, I did mislead by stating that Browning "picked up" Winchester and you are correct that a Belgium group owns them, but my point is that if there was not an infusion of capital they would be gone. That is true of most products, but the firearms business has always been a "tipping point" industry, for if you do not generate the retail sales, there is little aftermarket there to support the "cause." In short, you have to sell the guns out the door to keep the door open and Winchester sales have slumped for years and a mere pin point compared to the sales of Remington or Ruger. Now the new short magnum is not the horse you want to bet on in this race for even though initial sales/activity will be high, it is a whole lot like having gas, that too will pass!! If everyone was interested in short powder trains,(supposedly more effecient??) internal ballistics, ultra precision chambers as in match shooting, then the short magnums will have some followers, but as for offering them in shorter actions, supposedly to offer lighter rifles for the hunter just does not seem to make for a long lived arrangement. I firmly believe firearms enthusiasts are more practical than that and not quick to jump on the "latest thing out..." In closing, I certainly hope the best for one of the most honored American names in the firearms industry, but they have a huge challenge in front of them and it does not look promising from where I stand. I'll bet my money on BIG GREEN to make it go and they have had their problems as well with all their sales. Ruger will probably be the last man standing when all is said and done due to a varied product line, outstanding management, and yes, vision and determination to meet the future with solid products at a value most will recognize. Favor Center!! dsiteman | |||
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First of all when did those 40 people get shot i beleive this was back in the 1970's and it was a problem with certain serial numbers and they were all recalled back then. I bought mine in 1971 and its never failed me the 4 others in our group have never failed either. Whens the last time you've heard of a problem with the M700's? What about the Ruiger M77 anyone care to slam that model ? | |||
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dsiteman, I will hhave to disagree again. I have been in the firearms business since 1984 and the trend toward lighter and shorter guns is no passing fad. Although Winchester started the ball rolling way back when with the introduction of the M70 Featherweight, the idea really caught fire and has continued to grow steadily year after year when Remington introduced the first 700 Mountain Rifle. This gun and the .280 Remington cartridge took the shooting public by storm in the late '80's. The .280 peaked and fell but the 700 Mountain Rifle and it's offshoots have been dominating the shooting scene ever since. By contrast, the M70 Featherweight is the same basic gun it has always been but the short mags have a firm hold and I really don't see it changing any time soon. The 2005 Winchester catalog shows only FOUR models (out of TWENTY ONE) available in .300 Win. Mag. I don't necessarily agree with this plan but it does tell you that the big boss's are banking heavily on the continued success of the short mags. Thanks for listening, DC300 DC300 | |||
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Rem never did a recall of the model 700. Never. There are still hundreds of thousands of unsafe trigger/safety systems out there. The last shooting I heard of was about 4 or 5 years ago. And just because it has not happened to you does not mean it will not happen. I have not been killed by a drunk driver yet, but it could happen any day. | |||
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Everybody is always hyping CRF rifles; however, in two very famous episodes they failed to work. One was the lion charge involving Wes Hixon where Hixon saved his PH with his Rem 700 in 416 Rem Mag when one of the pro's CFR rifles failed to feed. Another is Nikki Atcheson's getting hit by a Buff ; Keith's Mod 70 safety malfunctioned making it impossible for him to shoot until the safety finally released. JD | |||
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Don't tell my Remington Nemises that ! The Winny works until it fails and then it MUST be user failure. Of course its just a lousy misrable piece of push feed just like all those worthless Weatherby's !  | |||
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Poor shot placement (with subject Remington rifle) is what got Mr. Chipman in trouble, followed by a series of more poorly placed shots during a close-quarters charge. CRF malfunction had nothing to do with it. The Mrs. Atcheson incident by their own admission, was operator error and not a malfunction of the safety. Weatherbys are fine rifles, I own and hunt with quite a few, including Africa, but for DGR they are not my weapon of choice nor would I turn down a hunt with ANY push feed. To date, no laws suits have been leveraged against them and the safety problem, germane (pardon the pun) to German manufactured Weatherbys has long since bee corrected. The extractor on them is several orders of magnitude stronger than the 700s ( nobody I know installs Sako extractors on Weatherbys nor after market triggers for that matter) the action is stronger and the bolt handles are made from one-piece solid steel construction, unlike the glued on Remingtons.Nothing personal, To call Weatherbys POS is obviosuly an expected retort when the discussion is at variance with the facts. jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Niether one of these instances had anything to do with the CRF function. In the forst instance the lion getting to Peter Chipman, the PH, was not because his rifle did not feed, but because the time was not there for the second shot with any bolt rifle before the lion was in his pocket. Peter's rifle fed properly, he just didn't have time to get it into action. With all three rifle in this case each man got exactly one shot before the lion was on Peter, none of which stopped the lion. The lion was wounded by Wes with a gut shot, that shot #1, the lion charged from 15 yds, was hit in the chest by Peter with a 458 Win mag,no effect,shot#2, Hit in the chest by Wes, with a 416 Rem Mag, no effect,shot#3 hit in the upper jaw by the other PH, breaking the upper jaw, shot#4, but didn't stop the lion. Shot #5 was Wes's second shot from 6" that killed the lion. A lion can cross 100 yds in 3.5 seconds and that is not enough time to get more than two shots with any bolt rifle, even with the best rifleman in the world. At 15 yds these guys were lucky all three got off one shot, and even luckier they all hit the lion! There were no failiers to feed in this case, by CRF, or PF. The failier was all three shooters should have had double rifles, and they would have gotten in six shots instead of three, total before the lion got on Peter. Today Peter uses a Merkel 470NE double rifle for follow-up, and the same Mauser 458 Win Mag for general back up! The thing with Nikki's enjury, and Keith's malfunction had to do with a safety, on a Mod 70, and had nothing to do with feeding at all! Your examples are like saying a broken stock on a CRF means the system is no good. Apples and oranges dude! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Jorge you should know by now I have my share of Weatherbys. But the fact remains that they are push feed and have a crappy safety. No I would say the safety SUCKS. The fact that after market triggers for them are not available isn't necessarily a good thing. Unless you like the 6# factory trigger pull. The only facts I have ever seen you post about Remington is that you have ZERO experience with them. That means in my view at least you really are not doing anything other than repeating internet BS that you read someplace else. Like "glued On bolt handles". Get real. That's like saying every Weatherby needs the action beat open with a Rock. Winchesters fail, Remingtons fail Weatherbys LOL well lets leave them alone shall we ? All can be improved in a cost effective way and are of equal quality in the end. Remington just does it at a better price.  | |||
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Yes, I know of 3 instances where that happend with Weatherby factory ammo because the stuff is too hot. Or the chambers are too small or too rough. Good thing a rock was handy.
Do you know what happens when a Weatherby is severely overpressurized? All 9 locking lugs let go and the bolt goes rearward through the shooter's cheek. I know of one instance where that happened. Mausers don't do that. | |||
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