quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
There is no hunting ban and I advise you all to get out there and pursue the sport you love.

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Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
I would simply say that this is not over yet.

Jeff

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Exactly!

The ban affects trophy import.

Not the hunt!

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As I believe Lane mentioned, there is such a thing titled the Lacey Act and it is possible, maybe remotely, but possible that Americans could be charged and face prosecution for hunting an endangered species.

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Originally posted by LHeym500:
If your sources are accurate, not saying they are not, this administration has officially betrayed US hunters. The bottom line is import bans choke off the market. Less money in and less resources for wildlife.

Now, we here there is a movement to use the Lacy Act to prosecute hunters who hunt animals that are not allowed imported. The market is frozen even more by this threat.

Also there is a propaganda angle. If US allows the import we can say the US government says this hunting saves animals. Regardless, of the numbers middle ground non hunters see the import bans as US saying these animals cannot be sustainably hunted. Therefore, hunting those animals should stop all together.

Oh President Trump Toyata makes cars in US. In Kentucky, that overwhelmeing voted for you. Differ discussion. I am just mad.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
I am sorry sir. I am not that bold. The threat is just that now, but the play is to scare hunters from participating.

The US government by the bans has said our science says elephant and lion from those areas cannot be sustainably hunted. Regardless, of the true numbers this is a very big hurdle to assault when trying to convince non hunters this hunting benefits wildlife.

Stated simply, even President Trump's administration says elephant and lion hunting at least from import ban countries does not benefit wildlife. Therefore, that hunting should stop.

This logical problem, to me, is the worse outcome of this Administrations stance.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I may be wrong but I do not believe the Lacey Act can be used against anyone unless they have broken the laws in the country where they were hunting and/or the US. A lawful hunt in an African country does not result in a Lacey Act violation simply because the animal cannot be imported.

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Sorry guys our effing goose is cooked and my advice to anyone wanting a leopard is to do it now just look at how Namibia caved in this month!!!

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Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Here is one thing we should propagate:

The ban on importation of lions and elephants is racism at its best: these countries are not breaking the law, but rather following the rules spelled out by CITES. What the US Govt is essentially saying is that they know better how to manage the wildlife in Africa better than Africans. How can that be anything but racist?

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Here is one thing we should propagate:

The ban on importation of lions and elephants is racism at its best: these countries are not breaking the law, but rather following the rules spelled out by CITES. What the US Govt is essentially saying is that they know better how to manage the wildlife in Africa better than Africans. How can that be anything but racist?

You and I need to share some scotch.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
If your sources are accurate, not saying they are not, this administration has officially betrayed US hunters. The bottom line is import bans choke off the market. Less money in and less resources for wildlife.

Now, we here there is a movement to use the Lacy Act to prosecute hunters who hunt animals that are not allowed imported. The market is frozen even more by this threat.

This has been the case since back in 2010 when they started on the lion. It is not a new movement.

Also there is a propaganda angle. If US allows the import we can say the US government says this hunting saves animals. Regardless, of the numbers middle ground non hunters see the import bans as US saying these animals cannot be sustainably hunted. Therefore, hunting those animals should stop all together.

Oh President Trump Toyata makes cars in US. In Kentucky, that overwhelmeing voted for you. Differ discussion. I am just mad.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I may be wrong but I do not believe the Lacey Act can be used against anyone unless they have broken the laws in the country where they were hunting and/or the US. A lawful hunt in an African country does not result in a Lacey Act violation simply because the animal cannot be imported.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I may be wrong but I do not believe the Lacey Act can be used against anyone unless they have broken the laws in the country where they were hunting and/or the US. A lawful hunt in an African country does not result in a Lacey Act violation simply because the animal cannot be imported.

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PS: The Endangered Species Act allows for making it against USA law.

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Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Here is one thing we should propagate:

The ban on importation of lions and elephants is racism at its best: these countries are not breaking the law, but rather following the rules spelled out by CITES. What the US Govt is essentially saying is that they know better how to manage the wildlife in Africa better than Africans. How can that be anything but racist?

You and I need to share some scotch.

It is on my bucket list

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Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I may be wrong but I do not believe the Lacey Act can be used against anyone unless they have broken the laws in the country where they were hunting and/or the US. A lawful hunt in an African country does not result in a Lacey Act violation simply because the animal cannot be imported.

PS: The Endangered Species Act allows for making it against USA law.

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Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
There is no hunting ban and I advise you all to get out there and pursue the sport you love.

Exactly!

The ban affects trophy import.

Not the hunt!

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Originally posted by fairgame:
So what you are stating is the mandate to prove that hunting enhances the survival of species is bull shit.

That those who reclaim dormant lands and forge communal partnerships in true conservation means bugger all? Not to mention those who currently manage vast swathes of this continent and who bear the brunt of everything that Africa has to throw at them?

The last bastions of wildlife are housed in hunting concessions and private lands. It is those outside of these boundaries who have failed.

Whats this Trump fellows phone number? Do you have an email address?

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Originally posted by ozhunter:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
So what you are stating is the mandate to prove that hunting enhances the survival of species is bull shit.

That those who reclaim dormant lands and forge communal partnerships in true conservation means bugger all? Not to mention those who currently manage vast swathes of this continent and who bear the brunt of everything that Africa has to throw at them?

The last bastions of wildlife are housed in hunting concessions and private lands. It is those outside of these boundaries who have failed.

Whats this Trump fellows phone number? Do you have an email address?

can I use this post Andrew?

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Originally posted by cable68:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I may be wrong but I do not believe the Lacey Act can be used against anyone unless they have broken the laws in the country where they were hunting and/or the US. A lawful hunt in an African country does not result in a Lacey Act violation simply because the animal cannot be imported.

PS: The Endangered Species Act allows for making it against USA law.

I was wondering how they'd use the Lacey Act angle work in a foreign country if you weren't importing something that had been taken legally.

For those unfamiliar with it, extremely simplified version is if you violate a game law outside of your home state (or country), you violate the Lacey act once you import it to your home state or to the USA if international.