Probably a newbie question, but..... how often do PH's actually shoot their rifles? Everyone one agrees that practice makes perfect and hunters normally put a load of time in before a hunt burning powder with their rifles. I was wondering how much time/money PH's have to practice?

I will only speak as a plains game PH.

Shoot at something definately wounded by a client? Not done so since only one shot in 2006, and before that a very long time without having to lift a rifle at all.

Shoot as own practice? Lots and lots. I regularly shoot with a .22LR at a variety of live game. WIth centrefire rifles, many shots whicle developing handloads - deliberate accuracy atempts from bench. But, as so often is the case, by shot 3 of 5 or more from a specific load attempt it is obvious that the load is not going to be accurate / or fast enough. Then the remainder of that batch is shot out standing up and freehand. I think pulling bullets is a waste of time and only do it when there are sure signs of high pressure.

Then there is the regular "hunting target" competitions of our local branch of the SA Hunting & Game Consrvation Association. At most of these I do not try to win, but just practice and enjoy my shooting.

Then I also hunt a few times a year for myself.

I don't claim to be a great shot, but can generally hit something that a client hit and wounded at some distance further than the client's first shot. But the secret of good PHing is in firstly assessing the client's true shooting ability, getting the client close enough for a sure shot within his/her shooting ability, then ensuring that the client is relaxed and free from 'buck fever', making sure that the client is confident and with a good field rest. Any PH who does these things well evry time is very seldom going to have to pull the chesnuts from the fire and shoot at something that a client has wounded.

I would not like to buy ammo in ortder to shoot a double regularly as practice for DG hunting! Must cost a small fortune!

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

Most PH's are great marksmen. Most grew up on farms where they hunted a hell of a lot of animals starting with small birds and advancing up to DG.
Most PH's hunt a lot for own use and do a lot of culling.
I am a bow and gun fanatic. Not because I love guns but because I love shooting. Only accurate guns interest me.
Our company cull +- 2500 head of game per year. That is over and above what we hunt for our self.

As for practicing for a charge:
We hunt Bushpig in corn fields regularly with small dogs. The average shot is 3-4 yards. On a close shot, there will be powder burns on the pig.
Bushpig do not run from small dogs. They fight it out and will not hesitate to take a human on when it is revved up.

A perfect hunt to any PH is where he/she does not even have to lift his gun but it does not mean that they can not shoot straight free-hand.

I have many friends that are PKs in Africa and they shoot well with rifle without exeption Willem the Jaeger shoots a lot and practices with his air rifle ,Don Heath is an excelent shooter with pistol -competes in ipsc-and rifle ,Appie shoots great with his old brno308,Ricard Harland shoots rifles and shotguns with great expertise.
Kevin Thomas shoots all kind of firearms all his life .
Here in Argentina Phs -most of them -are great shooters with rifle and shotgun and some with pistols .

With doubles and DG calibres not nearly as much or as intensly as most clients preparing for a DG hunt. But most PH's have spent their lives as passionate hunters and guns are their tools, and they rely on them so will have built their marksmanship to a level that they feel can keep their skin intact when the chips are down.

Most of the current full time PH's that i know really enjoy wing shooting and shoot as and when they can squeeze it into their schedule. Between a full season and marketing trips the guys have very little spare time for themselves (or families)!

Also financially very few guys can afford to blaze away with expensive rifle ammo year in and year out

quote:

Originally posted by Fritz Rabe:
Most PH's are great marksmen. Most grew up on farms where they hunted a hell of a lot of animals starting with small birds and advancing up to DG.
Most PH's hunt a lot for own use and do a lot of culling.
I am a bow and gun fanatic. Not because I love guns but because I love shooting. Only accurate guns interest me.
Our company cull +- 2500 head of game per year. That is over and above what we hunt for our self.
We also make it a rule in our company that every DG qualified PH has to shoot at least 2 PAC Elephant frontal at close quarters every year just to stay in shape.
As for practicing for a charge:
We hunt Bushpig in corn fields regularly with small dogs. The average shot is 3-4 yards. On a close shot, there will be powder burns on the pig.
Bushpig do not run from small dogs. They fight it out and will not hesitate to take a human on when it is revved up.

A perfect hunt to any PH is where he/she does not even have to lift his gun but it does not mean that they can not shoot straight free-hand.

You need to add more coke to your brandy mate.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Fritz Rabe:
Most PH's are great marksmen. Most grew up on farms where they hunted a hell of a lot of animals starting with small birds and advancing up to DG.
Most PH's hunt a lot for own use and do a lot of culling.
I am a bow and gun fanatic. Not because I love guns but because I love shooting. Only accurate guns interest me.
Our company cull +- 2500 head of game per year. That is over and above what we hunt for our self.
We also make it a rule in our company that every DG qualified PH has to shoot at least 2 PAC Elephant frontal at close quarters every year just to stay in shape.
As for practicing for a charge:
We hunt Bushpig in corn fields regularly with small dogs. The average shot is 3-4 yards. On a close shot, there will be powder burns on the pig.
Bushpig do not run from small dogs. They fight it out and will not hesitate to take a human on when it is revved up.

A perfect hunt to any PH is where he/she does not even have to lift his gun but it does not mean that they can not shoot straight free-hand.

You need to add more coke to your brandy mate.

My personal experience is that PH's at least the ones I've hunted with don't get to shoot a lot because ammo is incredibly expensive in most of Africa. PH's depend heavily on ammo clients leave behind or have brought specifically for the PH. On your next DG safari note how many different kinds of ammo are in the PH's belt.

Mark

i personally domnt shoot my double rifles very much - but i love birdshooting and skeet and so i shoot a lot - i also have a .22 that i take out a couple of times a week while i am at home - i know a lot of PHs are very keen birdshooters so they get plenty of shooting time in the off season !!!!

as far as shooting while hunting - as little as i can , in fact on most plains game i carry the sticks and my binos and my trackers carries my rifle , thats faster for me to prepare the client - on the last 4 safaris , all for in tanzania , i have fired once in 70 days of hunting wherein we have taken over 50 trophies -

quote:

Originally posted by Fritz Rabe:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Fritz Rabe:
Most PH's are great marksmen. Most grew up on farms where they hunted a hell of a lot of animals starting with small birds and advancing up to DG.
Most PH's hunt a lot for own use and do a lot of culling.
I am a bow and gun fanatic. Not because I love guns but because I love shooting. Only accurate guns interest me.
Our company cull +- 2500 head of game per year. That is over and above what we hunt for our self.
We also make it a rule in our company that every DG qualified PH has to shoot at least 2 PAC Elephant frontal at close quarters every year just to stay in shape.
As for practicing for a charge:
We hunt Bushpig in corn fields regularly with small dogs. The average shot is 3-4 yards. On a close shot, there will be powder burns on the pig.
Bushpig do not run from small dogs. They fight it out and will not hesitate to take a human on when it is revved up.

A perfect hunt to any PH is where he/she does not even have to lift his gun but it does not mean that they can not shoot straight free-hand.

You need to add more coke to your brandy mate.

Meaning???

Sorry but I had to laugh that your DG experience is running some hogs in a corn field. Where I come from a PH apprenticeship entails 2 to 3 years dealing with dangerous game on a day to day basis. The experience you learn is directly for the field and there is no corn in this one.

However to sharpen your shooting skills with an open sighted rifle the bushpig would make for a good target. As these pigs are nocturnal I presume this is done at night?

Where is your company shooting all these elephant? And you claim everybody has to shoot two a year?

I kill more DG by myself in a year than most and have known Fritz for a long time,he is the only PH i will and have asked to help with wounded hippo ,lion and leopard.I know all the professional hunters that work with Fritz and nothing he is writing is false.

I shoot my gun every once in a while at a target at 25 yards just make sure the iron sights are set. This year I put two bullets into an elephant that was trying to cross into another concession.

As Ivan stated a gun can be a hindrance when trying to set up sticks, use binos etc and more often I am using a sling.

I have found that when the rifle is needed in anger that instinct takes over and I probably do not shot better than any other man here, under the circumstances.

quote:

Originally posted by nongwe:
I kill more DG by myself in a year than most and have known Fritz for a long time,he is the only PH i will and have asked to help with wounded hippo ,lion and leopard.I know all the professional hunters that work with Fritz and nothing he is writing is false.

Hi Nongwe, welcome and where are you hunting in Africa?

Mostly in Limpopo South Africa and Zim

quote:

Originally posted by nongwe:
Mostly in Limpopo South Africa and Zim

Good shit and you have a concession in Zim?

NO!NOT A PH OR OUTFITTER

Dont worry Nongwe.
I am not into badmouthing a fellow PH even if he is jealous or whatever. I dont need a fight with someone that also hunts. We have enough enemies from the anti-hunters already.

Sorry Fairgame but I am not going to join you in this tit-for-tat. You do what you do and I shall stick to what I do.

I doubt I will ever have the dream come true of hunting with a professional hunter. If in case it does happen, I personally would inform the PH that I would like for them to "help" if the need be. If the need was not present, I still wouldn't mind any help they could offer. As a sportsman, it is in the best interest of the animal to insure a quick death whichever means necessary. I would not want a PH to withhold their shots if they were able to dispatch an animal quicker by using them.

quote:

Originally posted by threadfin:
Probably a newbie question, but..... how often do PH's actually shoot their rifles? Everyone one agrees that practice makes perfect and hunters normally put a load of time in before a hunt burning powder with their rifles. I was wondering how much time/money PH's have to practice?

Well Threadfin I see your question has gone down the drain with other adgendas taking over. That is too bad,because I think your question needed a real answer!

First off most full PHs have been shooting so long with only a couple of rifles that there is little need for practice. Top that off with the fact that AMMO is so expensive in Africa that especially where double rifles are concerned starting at about $20 usd per trigger pull they don't waste ammo on paper targets. One PH I have hunted with a lot I've only seen him pull the trigger twice and that was in a dire close encounter with a very mad buffalo. However both those shots found thier mark when it counted most!

Now with an Appie, there might be some concern about his shooting but I never worry about the shooting of a full PH.

....................I hope that at least answers what you were concerned about! By the way, welcome to AR. You will find a lot of good information here, and don't let the minusia run you away!

quote:

Originally posted by nongwe:
NO!NOT A PH OR OUTFITTER

Sorry mate but when you claim to hunt in Zim and shoot more dangerous game than most, and that Fritz Babe backs you up, I simply presumed you were in the industry.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
I have found that when the rifle is needed in anger that instinct takes over and I probably do not shot better than any other man here, under the circumstances.

I'll do my best not to piss you off in camp.

Fairgame if you would like to know something and stop presuming things you can PM me and thereby stop wasting people's time.

First off most full PHs have been shooting so long with only a couple of rifles that there is little need for practice.

Top that off with the fact that AMMO is so expensive in Africa that especially where double rifles are concerned starting at about $20 USD per trigger pull they don't waste ammo on paper targets.

+1

quote:

We also make it a rule in our company that every DG qualified PH has to shoot at least 2 PAC Elephant frontal at close quarters every year just to stay in shape.

Fritz Rabe:

This is a very interesting statement - could you be more specific, ie. how many DG hunters are employed in your company (name) and just how many elephants are taken out every year to keep these hot shot PHs in shape?

Just asking

I bet I would of shot this buffalo before any of you all.

quote:

Originally posted by nongwe:
Fairgame if you would like to know something and stop presuming things you can PM me and thereby stop wasting people's time.

Why does he have to PM you when in all likelyhood he is merely calling bollocks? You made insinuations of your vast experience.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by nongwe:
Fairgame if you would like to know something and stop presuming things you can PM me and thereby stop wasting people's time.

Why does he have to PM you when in all likelyhood he is merely calling bollocks? You made insinuations of your vast experience.

.................

So what now do i have to prove myself to a PH and an American

Other than meat for the pot And a fair amount of practice I have fired three rounds into dangerous game in the last 11 years...one elephant and one lioness. Both inside the 4 pace line and incoming fast, and a hippo in a field at night testing a new .458 Lott.

As fairgame said- When there is real trouble instinct takes over. In a way, I am fortuante to have taken part in the culls in the 1980's. We shot alot, not only on the actual culls but in training for them. I went through 4 barrels on my first 9,3 and wore out at least one F.N. FAL. Practice was measured in terms of how many thousand rounds per week you fired- all at moving targets. Sadly these days I don't have access to unlimited free government ammo

There are PH's and there are PH's. Ganyana is probably one of the most experienced of us all here and just goes to show that a PH who knows what he is doing does not need to fire his gun much.

However many that specialise in hunting elephant will probably have to shoot more often and backup shots are more likely to be called for.

Thanks for the varied replies. I was not doubting the prowess of PH's, more wondering how they/you stayed sharp. I guess the $hit hitting the fan sharpens you up pretty quick!

My local gun club hosts a couple of heavy rifle shoots a year, all based along the lines of the ZIm PH shooting test (score /time). Ranges tend to be close (25m and in) scoreing zone is small (8").

I shoot alot of trap using a rifle (.22LR) as basic training and shoot alot of trap and Skiet with the 20g barrels on my Krieghoff. I vary my start possition but always start with the gun uncocked so that I will never make the mistake of forgetting to cock the darn thing when the chips are down. Actually shold my 12g trap gun and just use the Krieghoff 20g for all clays now. Hasn't helped my scores at skiet (it is choked I/C and M) but I shoot skiet wednesday afternoons for 'recoil therapy' while the wife is engaged in 'retail therapy'... so scores don't matter- but it has helped my reflex shooting with the double - which I am relatively used to.

Remember it takes 3000 perfect repetitions of an action to grow the conections in the brain to make an action and automtic action requiring no concious thought. One the brain is correctly wired... you will never loose the reflex (until Dementia sets in)

quote:

Remember it takes 3000 perfect repetitions of an action to grow the conections in the brain to make an action and automtic action requiring no concious thought. One the brain is correctly wired... you will never loose the reflex (until Dementia sets in)

Whilst many PH's do not shoot many bullets many will constantly handle and dry fire or point their rifle in rehearsal.

This year I will be using a new .500 double and will have to be very familiar with it before taking it into the field. Fortunately it comes with large amounts of ammunition which is a bonus.