For those who have read the article in this month's (July/August 2012) Sport Afield by Dr. Kevin Robertson, care to weigh-in on the ethical position he puts forth?

The crux of the article is the trend of PHs getting inexperienced clients very close to elephants and other dangerous game and, in his opinion, provoking charges.

There are obviously extremes that clearly cross ethical lines (these have been beaten to death for years) but he seems to be focusing on a few PHs that most of us here hold in high esteem. This past year in Zim, I hunted with a very old school, very experienced PH who held the same opinion that Dr. Robertson articulates in his piece.

As a client, I'm a bit torn- at 35, I tend to be attracted to the more "agressive" young PHs though I can undertand how their methods may be viewed negatively by the "old school" PHs in the business. I agree that we should strive to uphold the highest ethical standards possible as hunters, but I also believe that someone who has saved up his hard-earned money for a dangerous game hunt and paid his dues on the range and even in the gym deserves a little excitement.

Where do you come down? I highly suggest reading the article before weighing-in, though I'm sure that won't stop anyone from doing so.

Let me be the 1st to weigh in without reading the article.
I'm a weenie that's scared of elephants & wants at least a half mile shot, from the truck, with the motor running, in gear & ready to get the heck out of there.
sighned
BIG WUSS

Having shot a grand total of two elephants and experienced a charge on the second one, I think it's the job of the PH to put the client in a position to make a clean kill in the least dangerous situation possible. To provoke a charge for the thrill of it is just plain unethical and stupid. Sooner or later someone will get hurt.

quote:

I think it's the job of the PH to put the client in a position to make a clean kill in the least dangerous situation possible. To provoke a charge for the thrill of it is just plain unethical and stupid. Sooner or later someone will get hurt.

Well said!

Bill Quimby

Yup

quote:

Originally posted by Labman:
Having shot a grand total of two elephants and experienced a charge on the second one, I think it's the job of the PH to put the client in a position to make a clean kill in the least dangerous situation possible. To provoke a charge for the thrill of it is just plain unethical and stupid. Sooner or later someone will get hurt.

I agree 100% and don't think there's much of a debate there. The question is: where is the line? Do Ivan & Buzz "get too close"? The article doesn't name names, but it seems to point in that direction. I could be wrong.

I have never hunted elephant and don't know if I ever will but if I do it will be with Ivan Carter. He might get close and that is what I want as I might only do it once. I know the risks and believe he is as good as it gets and would never put anyone in harms way on purpose. What is ethical to one is not to another. Make a choice and go with it. Quite blaming the world for your choices and buck up and be responsible for what you do and when you do it and who you choose to help get you to that goal.

Joe, I feel the same exact way.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodhits:

quote:

Originally posted by Labman:
Having shot a grand total of two elephants and experienced a charge on the second one, I think it's the job of the PH to put the client in a position to make a clean kill in the least dangerous situation possible. To provoke a charge for the thrill of it is just plain unethical and stupid. Sooner or later someone will get hurt.

I agree 100% and don't think there's much of a debate there. The question is: where is the line? Do Ivan & Buzz "get too close"? The article doesn't name names, but it seems to point in that direction. I could be wrong.

Why would I want to shoot dangerous game at 100 yards? Getting close and intentionally instigating a charge are two distinct things.

I think Chuck above has got it right.

One cannot compare getting close and making sure of your shot, and what I call those with the Hollywood mentality who go out of their way to get a charge on film.

I am almost certain this has come about because of what Mark Sullivan has been pulling on the unsuspecting by his buffalo charges.

All these are totally unethical and give us all a bad name.

I don't think Buzz tries to instigate charges at all. Elephant hunting is about getting up close and personal and that is what he provides. Speaking with Buzz and hunting eles with his PH, Rich Tabor, twice, I get the feeling they are very sensitive to getting too close unnecessarily and having to shoot in self defense. On every approach Rich and I performed, he started by saying that "we will not press in too close unless we decide to take it, and then to get close enough to make the shot" or words to that effect.

However, anyone who hunts the number of Elephant in a season that Buzz does is likely to experience a charge now and again, especially with a large number of those hunts being for cheeky Tuskless eles! Remember that most of Buzz's hunts occur in thick jesse. That requires the hunting party to get close inorder to judge ivory or make sure the Tuskless doesn't have a dependent calf. Anytime you're that close to a cow herd in the jesse, the law of averages comes into play.

Add to this the fact that more and more clients are opting to have their Safari video taped and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out you are going to have a few Elephant charges on video. Probably more so than in the past due to the growing popularity of Tuskless hunts and the proliferation of inexpensive broadcast quality video cameras.

I'm not a Mark Sullivan basher due to the fact that I've never heard of or spoken with anyone who has personally hunted with him, that's had a single negative thing to say about him. That being said, I don't think Buzz, or Ivan for that matter (whom I've only met a couple of times), can even remotely be compared to Mark in terms of the videos they are producing.

I disagree with Mark's method of continuing to walk closer and closer to a WOUNDED buff in order to get it to charge instead of just putting it out of it's misery at the earliest convenience. Buzz and Ivan are being charged from time to time due to the necessity of getting close for proper animal identification in the thick brush. Not even close to being the same circumstances IMO.

I had an email about this.

"...Saeed, all one has to do is look at how many elephants are shot because they charged..."

The way I see it, a PH has the responsibility to only engage an animal as far as he can be absolutely sure to control the situation.
The expectation of the client from the PH to "sort things out" should be zero.
If the PH adheres to that and ensures that he manages the situation within the limits of what he is sure he can do, alone, in a worst case scenario, then you would have an 80% chance of not getting into trouble as it will only be the wild card that will get you.

That said, if you as an experienced hunter wish to engage a PH that is willing to push the boundaries and in so doing is willing to trust that you the client can uphold your side of the deal should things go bad, then that is an informed decision you are making.
Even more so, the PH is trusting you to be as capable as he when things go bad, hence he is playing a bit of Russian Roulette.

One thing that we must all keep in mind is that at the end of the day each and every one of us, be it hunter or PH have the ability to say NO, and walk away. Failure to do so is totally your own fault and the last thing that should be done s to start flinging blame when things go wrong

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I had an email about this.

"...Saeed, all one has to do is look at how many elephants are shot because they charged..."

Saeed, I'm not sure what you're saying with that quote, who it is from, nor in what context it is being used. But if it is accusing Buzz or Ivan of instigating charges for video, I would have to disagree. First off, is this statement saying more elephant are being shot today due to charges than in the past? Over what period of time in the past? Were as many Tuskless being hunted in the period of the past being referred to? Are there more video camera's in the field now than during the period of time in the past being referred to? Many questions just to establish the intent of that quote.

Obviously, without reviewing the exact scenes during this discussion, it is hard to ensure we are talking about the same events. But in Buzz's DVD's, a couple of examples. Sorry but I forget the client's name but he is of Dutch or SA nationality from his accent, he is hunting an ele bull with Buzz and using a "458 3 Express". This scene is in the second DVD, Zambezi Extreme. Buzz is wearing a red bandana around his neck. That bull initiated a charge in open ground from what appeared to be well over 50 yards. The client shoots, drops it and Buzz turns to look at the camera with a surprised look on his face. No evidence of pressing for a charge here.

On the cow charge that Buzz and Mike Jines stopped, how far away was that cow when she came on? You couldn't see her on screen at all until just before they shot. I don't see evidence of them pressing her either.

There is another scene in Zambezi Extreme where Alan Shearing and his left handed clint, shooting his new double 470, shoot a Tuskless at the back of the herd, at a pretty fair distance, while they are sleeping under a tree. Right after the shot, several cows charge requiring Alan to shoot another in self defense. I see no evidence of pressing for a charge here either.

In "The Essence of Elephant Hunting" Buzz and his client are conducting a double Bull hunt in the North Western area where it is more open. He discusses with his client that one of the benefits of hunting that area is that it's possible to examine and judge the ivory from a distance, and if not satisfactory, back out completely without the eles even knowing they were there, leaving them totally undisturbed.

One of Ivan's famous charge stops is the one where he and Jeff Wemmer are trailing a cow herd when all of a sudden, the cow at the back turns and comes on like a freight train. Ivan did everything he could by yelling and swinging his rifle to get her to stop, only shooting at the very last second.

There is also that famous episode where they stumbled upon a cow coming the opposite way on a trail. She came on and almost got Ivan as it took both barrels to stop her.

And so on and so on.

Yes, there are scenes with both PHs where a frontal brain shot is utilized and the client is instructed to shoot as the cow lowers it's head to start a charge, or at least a mock charge. I always thought the reason for having the client wait until the head drops like that is the fact that the frontal brain shot is easier to pull off for a novice when shooting into the forehead than driving the bullet up through the trunk by shooting 18" below the eyes while the head is up in a dominance display.

I just don't see how any of these scenes and more can be compared with Mark Sullivan walking up to a bloodied buff, stopping, moving forward, stopping, moving forward, repeatedly until the buff grunts and comes on! Buff will charge but usually only when wounded. Eles seem to have a lot less tolerance for man than buff, and much less likely to turn tail and run when they identify you at close proximity.

quote:

Originally posted by African Hunters Quest:

The expectation of the client from the PH to "sort things out" should be zero.

Absolutely 100%!!

Todd,

I have no idea who it is from, and I think he meant any PH who has had to shoot a number of elephants in self defence is doing something wrong.

Could be a true statement Saeed, but I would think there needs to be more context in order to say so.

A PH that hunts the ocasional elephant with a record of "X" number of self defense shoots over "Y" number of seasons is different than the PH that exclusively hunts elephants with a record of the same "X" number of self defense shoots over the same "Y" number of seasons. The type of elephants hunted, tuslkess vs bulls, and area vegetation also matter. But I understand what he's saying from a general perspective.

Todd,

My impression from what this gentleman has written is that he is an experienced elephants hunter.

He did mention some names of PHs he has seen on film, he thinks the behaviour of the PH was specifically designed to get a charge from the elephant.

I am not going to mention the names he wrote, and have told him he is welcome to post whatever he wishes on the Forum, and posts whatever he wishes.

It would be interesting to hear his thoughts. Maybe he will chime in.

There are PH's that encourage charges to get the video for TV or DVD's.

Sometimes the PH gets scolded by the game dept. but usually not.

Getting close enough to an elephant to get a more certain brain shot is what it is all about. Cows will charge unprovoked on a semi regular basis, but most just want to get the hell out of there.

Bulls will almost never charge unless provoked.

Now I could name names but I better not as some are fawned over here and elsewhere. But any PH having zillions of charges is provoking the elephants.

On the other hand, maybe Robinson is begrudging the other PH's because he can't get enough footage for a DVD!

It's apparently not enough to con tenderfoots into believing shooting an impala is somehow different than shooting a kudu.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I had an email about this.

"...Saeed, all one has to do is look at how many elephants are shot because they charged..."

That may be a reference to a line in the article:

"When a PH, in a single season, shoots more cows in self-defense than most of the "old school" PHs ever shot in their lifetime, something is seriously wrong"

My response would be: How many of the "old school" PHs actively hunted cows? Has elephant behavior due to poaching and habitat loss made them more agressive than they were in years past?

Gentlemen, IMO, it all boils down to the fact that purposely causing a charge is one thing and getting in close to dangerous game animals are two distinctly different things!

I’m not an elephant hunter but any dangerous game can be purposefully intimidated into charging, ( Mark Sullivan has proven that) and IMO is not a good thing to do. In fact it is a damn dangerous thing to do!

However, hunting dangerous game is a pursuit that requires one to get close, because dangerous game is simply not dangerous at long range, so what would be the point of shooting from a long distance? It is simply because one wants to get close because it is easier to place a shot that immediately put the animal down and at the same time puts the shooter in the fight range as well “IS” the point.

I agree with those who say purposely causing a charge for the film is a practice that I find a little Hollywood, and damn dangerous! I certainly abhor the practice!

…………………………………………………………………………………

quote:

Originally posted by Woodhits:


That may be a reference to a line in the article:

"When a PH, in a single season, shoots more cows in self-defense than most of the "old school" PHs ever shot in their lifetime, something is seriously wrong"

My response would be: How many of the "old school" PHs actively hunted cows? Has elephant behavior due to poaching and habitat loss made them more agressive than they were in years past?

Good response. Many more cows are hunted now than ever before, so I don't really see how the writer can make any comparison on that front. And no doubt the human factor has made them more aggressive in certain areas too.

Now if only he'd stated 'bulls' instead of 'cows' he may have had a point...Maybe it's a typo?

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
Gentlemen, IMO, it all boils down to the fact that purposely causing a charge is one thing and getting in close to dangerous game animals are two distinctly different things!

I’m not an elephant hunter but any dangerous game can be purposefully intimidated into charging, ( Mark Sullivan has proven that) and IMO is not a good thing to do. In fact it is a damn dangerous thing to do!

However, hunting dangerous game is a pursuit that requires one to get close, because dangerous game is simply not dangerous at long range, so would be the point of shooting from a long distance? It is simply because one wants to get close because it is easier to place a shot that immediately put the animal down and at the same time puts the shooter in the fight range as well “IS” the point.

I agree with those who say purposely causing a charge for the film is a practice that I find a little Hollywood, and damn dangerous! I certainly abhor the practice!

…………………………………………………………………………………

+1 !!!

MacD37 and I appear to share the same passion for hunting with double rifles. That means when you hunt dangerous game, you get close by necessity. Intentionally provoking a charge seems very foolish to me - sort of like poking at a rattlesnake to see if it will strike at you. Not for me!
Mangwana

So, how does one purposefully cause an elephant to charge?

465H&H

I was hunting with Craigh Hamman in 2000 when we came upon a young bull who took exception to our being there. Craigh never offered to shoot him and moved us out of the way. The "charge" stopped in front of the truck about 8 ft. My buddy was the one elephant hunting and he took a picture of the young bull's eye without a tlephoto. Our rifles were under the packs due to rough passage. By contrast when my friend was hunting with Keith Boehme the bull was a bad actor and as he approached, Keith said "He will take another step and then charge. Shoot him before he does.
I say this to show how a PH can handle a dangerous situation and not endanger his clients needlessly.
No reason to make bull charge just to raise the adrenalin level. It's already high enough at close range.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
So, how does one purposefully cause an elephant to charge?

465H&H

By stalking in close, trying to get a decent shot opportunity.

Exactly, it is a very fine line and besides those who were actually there, who can say this chap provoked a charge yet so and so was simply trying to get his client into a good shooting position?

In my experience, the closer you get the more likely an elephant will charge. It is also true that the charge distance varies by the elephants temperament. Some will never charge but always run away. Others such as the matriarch of a herd are time bombs waiting to go off. Shoot one of their herd members and prepare to repel boarders. They are the most dangerous in my opinion.

When you get within 10 yards of a cow herd, you have increased the chance of a charge to very dangerous levels. Most likely it will be the matriarch that will charge and that is poor conservation to have to shoot a matriarch unnecessarily. All the elephant experts recommend not shooting matriarchs. Unfortunately, it is an all to common occurrence when hunting cow herds.

I have taken 12 elephants, mostly cows with PH George Hallamore. George stays back from herds and glasses them to look for a suitable animal. We then approach for the shot, usually at somewhere between 12 and 25 yards range and immediately back out after the elephant is down. We haven't been charged as yet. I suspect that if we had approached to within 10 yards we would have experienced at least one charge.



465H&H

i am sitting in an airport actually on my way to an elephant cow hunt !

we have many many times here about how close is too close and why people like me and buzz get close ..

let me say that if you hunt cows in thick bush , you dont have the luxury of stepping back to see which one you should shoot and very often in order to get to the cow you want you are forced into pretty close quarters , and that alone will often initiate some hostility from the cow you are persuing ..

i think hunting for the camera is very bad form if it affects the ethics and ethos with which you conduct yourself ...both for the safety of the client and indeed the whole hunting party as well as the safety of the non target animals.

I have only shot three elephant bulls in self defense and all were wounded prior to the charge with badly placed shots ...one was not wopunded by us , was on a walk in a photo area a young bull with AK bullets in him he saw us and charged from over 70 yards away , I killed him at 8 yards knowing that after all that distance he wasn’t going to stop ….the others were after a client had made a bad shot and I did a fast followup keeping the animal in sight ….should i have been further back? possibly .,should i have shot before they got to a few feet from me? in both cases in the thick bush ,impossible , one was with a videographer , one was without and i can honestly say both situations were very similar and my focus was on the animal and my job , not the camera....

cows are a different story , they are agressive and when you get into viewing and shooting range in thick bush the chances of a charge are actually quite high...the best thing you can do is let your target animal see you , that way she will probably come towards you .. AWAY from the group ...kill her with one shot and back out immediately ...again with or without a cameraman this is just what you do in thick bush ...if you dont get her with one shot kill her as fast as possible and again ...back out...at times you can "chase" the rest of the herd away with shouting if they start coming towards you ..

the way I hunt these cows in the thickets of chewore is as follows ….if you intend to shoot an elephant cow , identify her, get close when she is on the near side of the herd and then let her know you are there for the purposes of good shot presentation , weather or not she charges and weather or not you have a cameraman , this is a very efficient way of getting her to come towards you and get a few yards away from the main group...in fact sometimes in thick bush i have had them "parading" in front of me along a path , the tuskless or target cow in the midst of the group ,
when she gets opposite me , i make a sound or stand up , she is the only one in the group who actually becomes aware of our prescence ,at that point she will usually come towards to see what you are and thats often the point you kill her ...coming towards you ? yes , charge ? no . the footage of these scenes can often be called a charge but a good loook at the body language will tell you its far from it .

with all and any dangerous game hunting if you are endangering your hunting party (or equally important non target animals) because of a camera then in my opinion you are way over the line of sensibility and ethics.

i did a ration hunt last year where we took nine cows and three of the nine charged us , yes they were the target animals and yes we were close and no non target animals were shot. Several times on the hunt we backed out of situations where it was simply too tight to take the animal we wanted without either shooting one we didnt want to shoot(non target animal) or putting people in danger. Yes we had a videographer on this hunt and he got some excellent video but at no time did i hunt for the video ...if i did i would be dead long ago !!!!

people like buzz and I have for the last decade shot a great many cows , I have shot far far more off camera than on , but nevertheless if a 200 day season has you around elephants for 160 and all those days are with a cameraman you are definitely going to see some good elephant action , again none purposely aggravated for the camera …but the chances increase of confrontation with more days out there ..

if I was hunting 160 days solely in pursuit of buffalo and always with a camera I am sure each year I would have one or two scenarios that could be seen as hunting for the camera ..

now in closing let me say this , I am aware of the camera and the audience that that represents and my hunting style has changed from the perspective that I make sure that the cameraman has the time to get in position and also my in filed explanations punctuate the hunt , but none of that would increase any of the risks associated with what we do

thanks for reading this long post !!!!!

Well said Ivan. I have viewed both Ivan's, Buzz's and Calitzs'DVD's numerous times and have been on two elephant hunts. In thick jess what are your choices? To get a clean brain shot one has to get within 20 to 30 yrds or closer depending circumstances. As Ivan stated he works the herd to get he and his client in the best possible position. The call it dangerous game for a damned good reason. As a client and a hunter we owe to ourselves, the PH and trackers to become as knowledgable, physically fit, and shooting proficient as is possible.

Thanks for your detailed and experienced response, Ivan. To be clear- I would hunt with you or Buzz any day based on your reputations as well as what I've seen "on camera". The tone of the article was a bit surprising to me which is why I put the issue up here for discussion, after all- this is a "discussion forum".

Safe travels and good luck on the hunt.

Blah, blah, blah.

A zillion charges on video and none were provoked?

Me not buying that.

All you have to do in some of the videos is to see the PH immediately turn to the cameraman to see if he got the charge on video.

Ka-ching!

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Vining:
Well said Ivan. I have viewed both Ivan's, Buzz's and Calitzs'DVD's numerous times and have been on two elephant hunts. In thick jess what are your choices? To get a clean brain shot one has to get within 20 to 30 yrds or closer depending circumstances. As Ivan stated he works the herd to get he and his client in the best possible position. The call it dangerous game for a damned good reason. As a client and a hunter we owe to ourselves, the PH and trackers to become as knowledgable, physically fit, and shooting proficient as is possible.

Another choice when your in the thick stuff and close is to take a heart/lung shot instead of a brain shot. On the h/l shot the hit elephant will run off after its nose and the rest of the herd will follow. When the hit elephant falls the rest of the herd will usually continue running, thereby greatly reducing the chance of a charge. In my opinion, taking a brain shot when you could take a h/l shot in this situation is asking to be charged. Any comments, Ivan?

465H&H

Thank GOD we have the insight of Will to keep us informed and on track. As for me,I believe I'll put my faith in the likes of Ivan and Buzz.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I don't think Buzz tries to instigate charges at all. Elephant hunting is about getting up close and personal and that is what he provides. Speaking with Buzz and hunting eles with his PH, Rich Tabor, twice, I get the feeling they are very sensitive to getting too close unnecessarily and having to shoot in self defense. On every approach Rich and I performed, he started by saying that "we will not press in too close unless we decide to take it, and then to get close enough to make the shot" or words to that effect.

However, anyone who hunts the number of Elephant in a season that Buzz does is likely to experience a charge now and again, especially with a large number of those hunts being for cheeky Tuskless eles! Remember that most of Buzz's hunts occur in thick jesse. That requires the hunting party to get close inorder to judge ivory or make sure the Tuskless doesn't have a dependent calf. Anytime you're that close to a cow herd in the jesse, the law of averages comes into play.

Add to this the fact that more and more clients are opting to have their Safari video taped and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out you are going to have a few Elephant charges on video. Probably more so than in the past due to the growing popularity of Tuskless hunts and the proliferation of inexpensive broadcast quality video cameras.

I'm not a Mark Sullivan basher due to the fact that I've never heard of or spoken with anyone who has personally hunted with him, that's had a single negative thing to say about him. That being said, I don't think Buzz, or Ivan for that matter (whom I've only met a couple of times), can even remotely be compared to Mark in terms of the videos they are producing.

I disagree with Mark's method of continuing to walk closer and closer to a WOUNDED buff in order to get it to charge instead of just putting it out of it's misery at the earliest convenience. Buzz and Ivan are being charged from time to time due to the necessity of getting close for proper animal identification in the thick brush. Not even close to being the same circumstances IMO.

Just to be clear I in no way was insinuating that either Ivan or Buzz instigate charges. My point was that getting close to make a good shot is part of DG hunting. The difference really is motive. I'm hoping to take my two sons hunting tuskless with Buzz in the next few years.

I have never felt that on any of the three ele I have killed hunting with Buzz, any unnecessary risks were taken. My bull in Dande East was coming, not charging but coming to see what we were. In that kind of thick jesse, I am not sure how you could get into a shooting position without the elephant becoming aware of your presence. There almost has to be some level of confrontation.

Are charges provoked? Not by any sane PH hunting elephant with a client and unarmed trackers to be responsible for. Is confrontation sought? Let's face it, some level of confrontation is what makes elephant hunting so exciting. It's the only extreme sport a guy my age can still do credibly.

Richard Harland writes of provoking charges intentionally while doing tsetse control work, as it was a more efficient way of eradicating entire herds. Not for the camera, but to get his job done. I can't imagine the kind of confidence involved.

Hunting cows in jesse will always carry the possibility of a charge. I think what these PH's do is a far cry from intentionally provoking them, unnecessarily escalating the risk to the danger level. They sure get some great footage, though!

Not too hard to figure out who Doctari was referring to in his article. Elephant kicking dust in the faces, waving to ward off ele, close encounters of the questionable kind. Not saying I agree with him in the least, but not rocket science as to who the folks are that he is referring to. Right or wrong? I have no opinion as to one side or the other.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

Folks

Larry you are right as to who Kev is referring to. I will not comment in depth here as I feel that Ivan has covered most bases very well indeed. It is interesting to note though that both Ivan and myself will do more elephant in a single season then Kev has done in his life. Also another interesting point is that he uses my DVD at Montys (his partners) hunting school as an instruction ELE DVD!! Anyway ,Kev, like everyone else, is entitled to an opinion and as Saeed says he is entitled to express it.

Funnily enough I had Richard and Brita Harland around the other night , before this post appeared, and indirectly this topic was discussed. One of Richards comments was he took his hat off to present day PH as he felt hunting an individual tuskless (something they did not do) to be far more dangerous then a lot of the work that they did. His reasoning being that we have to firstly get in to the middle of a herd, shoot a targeted animal and get out without shooting any others or getting anyone injured- while in his day and work he was entitled and expected to shoot as many as he could -the result been he was in control of most situations as he could shoot any elephant that he thought might be a potential threat with NO ramifications- something we do not have the liberty of.

Just to reiterated some points though on how elephant hunting has changed in our life time and the reason why we are having more charges then the old timers.

1/ WE ARE HUNTING INDIVIDUAL COWS
2/ WITH MORE HUNTING/ POACHING PRESSURE HERDS ARE NEARLY ALWAYS CAUGHT IN THE TICKEST JESS
3/ POACHING HAS HUGLEY INCREASED AND POACHERS ARE OFTEN TARGETING COWS NOW AS COW IVORY IS EASIER TO SMUGGLE AND THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT THEY ARE FAR MORE AGGRESSIVE NOW THEN EVER! THIS YEAR I HAVE FOUND ELEPHANT CARCASSES ON EVERY HUNT THAT I HAVE BEEN ON.
4/ NEARLY ALL CHARGES HAVE BEEN COWS ( I HAVE SHOT 1 BULL IN SELF DEFENCE AND IT WAS FULL OF LEAD (12 DIFFERENT BULLETS RANGING FROM AK TO MUZZLE BALLS- ONE IN THE NERVE OF THE TUSK) THE BULL THAT STOOD ON MY TRACKER WAS A BULL THAT WAS WOUNDED FROM A CLIENT AND I DID NOT EVEN HAVE CAMERAMAN WITH ME!

Regards hunting for the camera- all my clients will attest to the fact that I make it abundantly clear that filming is very much secondary and that if Justin gets anything on film it is a bonus but in no way does it affect our hunt or change my hunting style. At the risk of repeating myself, Ivan and others- simply put the number of charges I have had to deal with in ratio to number of elephant that I have shot is probably far less then your normal PH doing only a couple of eles a season. It is simply a law of averages. Cheers for now Buzz

quote:

Originally posted by Buzz Charlton:


It is interesting to note though that both Ivan and myself will do more elephant in a single season then Kev has done in his life.