Ms AZwriter is out of town this weekend visiting her parents, so I took the opportunity to catch up on my Tivo'd shows. Watched a guy go after a bongo and strike out and then watched a guy go after a leopard twice and strike out.

I must say, I enjoyed the shows. If you know every show out there is going to show a kill, where is the suspense? Showing that things are not going well and shifting plans is part of hunting.

What do the rest of you think?

i wish more shows were like that, showing the chase and the reality that sometimes you strike out.

best

peter

Whilst I have not done a vast amount of hunting, I've done enough and I can honestly say that the most memorable hunt I've accompanied was one where we failed to take the primary trophy, an elephant bull. We chased one wily old bull for days on end but eventually he gave us the slip for good. It came oh so close several times but just wasn't meant to be. What memories though, and what a story. The hunter concerned did get a fantastic bull a couple years later and I know that first hunt only made his eventual success that much sweeter.

Like the old saying goes " that's why it's called "hunting" and not "shooting" ".

I'd think that a TV show where a successful kill wasn't a given would portray hunting in a better light than one of the shows where every two minutes you see some animal getting whacked without any apparent effort by the hunter.

AAW,

I did see the bongo show. It brought to light one of the really neat aspects of safari. You don't always get your main goal but you often get a totally unexpected consolation prize. this guy didn't get his bongo but he shot warthog, Red riverhog and giant forest hog all on the same safari. That is just one of those really cool things that happens on safari.

Mark

The on your own guy just before TAA on Sunday does not always get his game. I like that guy. Works his butt off!

The bongo hunter seemed like he had a great hunt. 'Passed up a forest buffalo though, to not spook potential bongo. That had to hurt.
That PH looked like one of the biggest characters in Africa; must have been a hoot.

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
The on your own guy just before TAA on Sunday does not always get his game. I like that guy. Works his butt off!

I like that show as well.

If I want to see an unsuccessful hunt, I'll get in the truck drive and then hike and watch my own suspense unfold.

I'm just happy to see that somebody else records the same shows that I do. On both shows the hunter killed several pigs. I've never been to Africa so please excuse my ignorance. Just how common are warthog and bushpig? Does anyone ever go on hunts where they are the primary species?

Yeah, that's the point of going hunting: not killing anything.

What is that? Metrosexual crap? Never going hungry? Growing up in the city? Taking sensitivity training classes? Driving a minivan?

The point is that for many hunting is not only about the kill.

Going hunting and not killing anything is like going to the restaurant and not eating.

Why bother then?

I know, we have all done it.

We have hunted on days when we did not get anything at all. But still enjoyed the day.
That is part of hunting.

But, to put on a TV show like that is not my cup of tea.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Going hunting and not killing anything is like going to the restaurant and not eating.

I would agree.

The guy on the Bongo hunt didn't get a Bongo but it was still an interesting show since he did get other stuff.

I watched a Tred Barta episode once and kept thinking something was going to happen; it did. Tred just kept flinging arrows at Caribou missing every time. I couldn't believe there could be a whole 30 minutes of cable TV time devoted to such an unsuccessful enterprise. I didn't watch Tred any longer.

Then there was a girl hunting on Expedition Safari. As I recall, they saw Elk but there was the usual drivel about them being just not quite what they were looking for and the huntress went home empty handed. Another waste of TV time in my opinion.

I know that not all hunts are successful but that's not the kind of hunt I want to watch. Along the same line, I would feel pretty dissapointed if a hunt I went on was advertised as having an excellent chance at something or another and never got an opportunity to shoot.

Remember we DID shoot a giant forrest hog, on film no less,and 4-5 other forrest species as well. Not exactly a wash by any means.
I have a no kill Derby eland show of my own coming up , but I took roan and some other game and I think it will make a nice " as it really was " show. Hope you all will agree.

I enjoyed the show featuring the "no kill" bongo hunt even more than many shows I've seen where the hunter killed his quarry.

Those guys worked hard for a bongo. But the bongo just didn't cooperate. That's real life and it didn't bother me at all.

Maybe it's because I have traveled halfway around the world myself to hunt big game, only to end up without killing my primary quarry.

I have generally had a great time, regardless of that.

As the wise man said, the next best thing to playing and winning, is playing and losing.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
Remember we DID shoot a giant forrest hog, on film no less,and 4-5 other forrest species as well. Not exactly a wash by any means.
I have a no kill Derby eland show of my own coming up , but I took roan and some other game and I think it will make a nice " as it really was " show. Hope you all will agree.

The only kind of show where the general public wants a 100% guaranteed outcome (no pun intended) is porn.

Keep them coming (no pun intended) Dave.

Shouldn't that be "In cum" not outcome?

Rich
I am sorry, I just couldn't help myself

Arrrrgggg.....
I do like puns and I have seen so many USA hunting shows where you just walk out and kill elk, turkey, deer and ducks that I actually enjoy a good hunt with the primary objective not taken.
I would much prefer a whole 30 minutes of my time being devoted to pursuit of one species, whether or not a kill ensued, with all the encounters.spookings by circumstances beyond ones control and wind changes than multiple whackings.

quote:

I'm just happy to see that somebody else records the same shows that I do. On both shows the hunter killed several pigs. I've never been to Africa so please excuse my ignorance. Just how common are warthog and bushpig? Does anyone ever go on hunts where they are the primary species?

Warthogs are fairly common, not so with bushpigs and it's my understanding that they are fairly nocturnal.

That said, I've been to Africa three times, Zimbabwe and at least a dozen different properties in South Africa from the Limpopo to Port Elizabeth, and I've not killed a Warthog. On my last trip, we spent the last 3 days just hunting Warthogs. Maybe I'm just too picky. Another reason to go back.

As to the shows with no kills, yes, that's hunting, but for the most part, I don't think that makes a good TV show. I think there are getting to be so many hunting shows on TV now that many of them are scraping under the barrel for footage. At least for me, the shows where the principal game animal is a whitetail doe are about as exciting as watching someone shoot a steel plate at 50 yds with a scoped, high power rifle.

The last TAA with the 3 pigs, and the variety of duikers was the closest to a whack'em and stack'em I can remember on the show. Only TAA's with more kills might be some of the leopard hunts if you count the bait animals.

DYT:

Do You Think, that the considerable expense of getting yourself and a couple of rifles to Africa puts added pressure to shoot more stuff, just because of the travel and daily rate costs?
I will admit, that I shot what was on my bucket list. Good mature trophies.

Are you willing to go home with just memories of a great hunt and no trophies; or are you willing to settle for a slightly lesser one for the wall?

Rich

More personal perspective:

On my elephant hunt last year, I passed on three bulls that were 45-50 lbs. per side, and a one-tusker that was 60 lbs. plus.

I have killed two bull elephants, so to my way of thinking, I can and should be picky.

I have decided that I want a big, old bull, or none at all, and the way things worked out last year, it was the latter.

I am fine with that. We had a great time chasing after elephant, and I have no regrets about any of my decisions.

I would have preferred to kill a big bull with heavy ivory, but hunting is far more than killing.

Before I killed my first 6 by Elk, I had killed non trophy animals just to make a kill ....after I killed the first 6 by, I passed many until I found and killed my one....and the hunts "out West" were not cheap for this southerner but I always felt like I had hunted and had a "good" hunt.
I do not have what one could consider an easy animal---A Cape Eland...I have passed many because they were not just quite what I wanted and I know I still have a few trys left in me.

Someone once told me that a hunter goes through stages. The first stage is when the hunter just wants to shoot something. Doesn't matter if it's a fork horn or world record, as long as something is shot the hunt is successful. Then the hunters moves in to the trophy hunter stage. He passes on the little animals in search of only the largest animal he can find. He still wants to kill something to make his hunt a success, but only a trophy animal. Next the hunter moves into the stage where he just enjoys being outdoors. A hunt is good regardless of whether something is shot. Success of the hunt is just being able to hunt. The final stage is when the hunter starts taking someone else hunting (like a child). Success then is based upon having fun with the new hunter and getting them their trophy.

I didn't see the show, but killing a giant forest hog and red river hog, amongst other forest game, sounds like quite a fun experience.
Besides, you can shoot a bongo in Texas if you need too.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Going hunting and not killing anything is like going to the restaurant and not eating.

Sex without orgasm...

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
You don't always get your main goal but you often get a totally unexpected consolation prize.

Amen to that. I struck out on an elephant hunt once but shot an absolutely huge Rowland Ward bushbuck that I honestly would not trade for a 40 pound bull ele if given the option.

I much prefer a show portraying an unsuccessful hunt than a show full of shots at the gas station, dinner table, or watching trail cam photos on the couch. Much of Modern hunting TV has become nothing more than advertisements IMO. There are still a few out there that I can still enjoy watching however most seem a little dull to me now. I know it is difficult to stretch 3 seconds of video into a 30 minute TV show however some seem to have figured it out….the rest are collecting a pay check.

It is all about intention. There is little adrenalin on a photo safari. But when you add the intention of the kill and the possibility of the final stalk and shot, it changes the entire outlook.

It is a completely different experience even if the end result is the same as that of a photo safari.

quote:

There is little adrenalin on a photo safari

I am afraid I have to disagree with you Wendell.

Earlier this year we were on a photo safari in Kenya. We were surrounded by literally hundreds of elephants in the park, some with babies. Some tried to stick their trunks into our truck. And I can assure you my adrenaline was shooting through the roof. I was well armed with video and still cameras, but I would have preferred my 375/404 at that particular moment.

A few minutes later I REALLY wished I had my 375/404, and at a different location, as a true 100 pounder passed very close by.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

There is little adrenalin on a photo safari

I am afraid I have to disagree with you Wendell.

Earlier this year we were on a photo safari in Kenya. We were surrounded by literally hundreds of elephants in the park, some with babies. Some tried to stick their trunks into our truck. And I can assure you my adrenaline was shooting through the roof. I was well armed with video and still cameras, but I would have preferred my 375/404 at that particular moment.

A few minutes later I REALLY wished I had my 375/404, and at a different location, as a true 100 pounder passed very close by.

I also have to disagree with your comment Wendell. I am currently involved in an extended photo safari which has, at times, pushed my adrenalin levels through the top of my head. I have never been as adrenalized as I have been on my 'photo shoot' through the Zambezi valley - not on any hunting safari. It's one thing bumping into elephants accompanied by armed guys who know what they are doing, but a totally different ballgame bumping into them armed with only a camera.

David

quote:

A few minutes later I REALLY wished I had my 375/404, and at a different location, as a true 100 pounder passed very close by.

Adrenalin or heartbreak.

Bill,

I am afraid it has got to the stage with me that I aim at every animal I see.

Even on National Geographic TV.

Saeed/David, You are missing my point. I am talking about the "hunting adrenalin" the buck fever or whatever you want to call it.

It is all about the intention to hunt, the intention to stalk and kill. There is not the goal of the possible kill on a photo safari. When you leave the lodge you are not on a "hunt" you are just out to take pictures and look around.

When you leave on a hunt, there is a sense of seriousness, intention, you have a goal and it is a serious irreversible one.

A sheep hunt and a hiking/camping trip are hardly the same thing even though 95% of the motions are the same.

There is a different feeling on a hunt. That was my point.

I was about 3' away from a huge Lion in Kruger and yep, it scared me. Open top vehicle, Lion walked up beside the truck. All he had to do was reach up and take me. Nothing I could do about it. No gun and no where to hide. Even the guide said he was nervous. I felt incredibly small and frail and soft at that point.

Driving in Dallas can be an adrenalin filled experience too. At least here we carry guns.

I hear you Wendell.

David

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
I am talking about the "hunting adrenalin" the buck fever or whatever you want to call it.

It is all about the intention to hunt, the intention to stalk and kill. There is not the goal of the possible kill on a photo safari.

When you leave on a hunt, there is a sense of seriousness, intention, you have a goal and it is a serious irreversible one.

Well said, Wendell. I have never heard or read it put that way, but that "intention" element is a huge part of it.

When I have been around large, unpredictable, dangerous animals in a national park, I have mostly felt stupid - for letting myself get talked into going somewhere like that where I'm forbidden to carry a rifle!!!

Chuck Nelson:

If I were much younger I would want to hunt with someone with your philosophy! A pretty good Spanish writer wrote once: " It is not all of hunting to kill" - but I do admit,as an often disappointed hunter, that it would be nice once in a while!

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
Saeed/David, You are missing my point. I am talking about the "hunting adrenalin" the buck fever or whatever you want to call it.

It is all about the intention to hunt, the intention to stalk and kill. There is not the goal of the possible kill on a photo safari. When you leave the lodge you are not on a "hunt" you are just out to take pictures and look around.

When you leave on a hunt, there is a sense of seriousness, intention, you have a goal and it is a serious irreversible one.

A sheep hunt and a hiking/camping trip are hardly the same thing even though 95% of the motions are the same.

There is a different feeling on a hunt. That was my point.

I was about 3' away from a huge Lion in Kruger and yep, it scared me. Open top vehicle, Lion walked up beside the truck. All he had to do was reach up and take me. Nothing I could do about it. No gun and no where to hide. Even the guide said he was nervous. I felt incredibly small and frail and soft at that point.

Driving in Dallas can be an adrenalin filled experience too. At least here we carry guns.

Wendell:

I think that is why I also like mountain climbing better than just camping trekking - you have a goal and an intention.

Our August trip to the Himalayas was totally screwed up by the weather (200 people were killed by flash floods our 3rd night in Leh and a sherpa and a French citizen were killed on the same route we were to go on). Our guide punted and we decided to climb Stok Kangri, a 20,000 foot mountain. Once at base camp (16,500) he looked at the snow on top and said it was too dangerous...I was kind of pissed and bummed at the same time.

Instead, he decided to do a 19K mountain next to it. The two days we were at base camp we saw six people injured trying to climb Stok Kangri - two guys with broken legs, one sherpa with internal injuries, one German guy who slid down 1000 feet and cut his thighs pretty deeply. It really was too dangerous to climb.

Like going on a hunt and not getting your game, it was a bummer, but you don't buy the mountain - you just buy the chance.

Wendell,

This is from monthly column I used to write. It's about 20 years old.

******

WHY?

A few months ago I invited a new acquaintance and his wife to a small gathering of friends at my house. I had met Kevin at a seminar for writers at a local community college. We became friendly over the three nights and seemed to get along quite well, even to the point of sharing several interests. Unfortunately, I didn't meet his wife Joan before extending the invitation.

Big mistake!

Although I didn't know Joan, early on I sensed she was upset about something. She was quiet, rarely uttering more than "thank you" when I handed her a fresh drink. But the whole time she sat in the living room, I could see her occasionally gazing at the walls.

Then it hit me; it was the two dozen or so trophy mounts hanging on the walls. A couple hours later, she confirmed my suspicions.

"Did you kill all these animals?"

I nodded. "Yes. It's a collection of many years and many hours spent in the outdoors. In fact, whenever I look at one of the animals on the wall, I often drift back in time, and it's amazing how much detail I remember. I normally recall most everything about the hunt, from the location to who was with me and what the weather was like. Yet, I usually can't remember what happened last week."

Joan smiled a bit, but I could see it was more perfunctory than genuine. Then she dropped the bomb.

"I'm not much into killing things, especially wild animals that never hurt anyone. You certainly can't tell me you killed all these beautiful creatures because you needed them for food."

Without showing it outwardly, I thought to myself, "Here we go again." I tried to be polite.

"You're right. I didn't kill them all for food, though I did eat the meat from them. Let's just say the game meat supplemented my domestic food supply -- a healthy alternative of sorts. Mainly, I killed them because that's what hunting is all about. To some, not killing something when the opportunity arises might border on dishonesty. I hunt because I enjoy the outdoors and everything about it. I still relish the years when my kids hunted with me. They provided me the opportunity to teach them about the outdoors and nature. So in reality the killing is only a small part of what hunting is all about. "

"So then why don't you go out in the woods with an empty gun, enjoy the hunting part and just say "bang" when you find your victim? Or since you're a wildlife photographer, too, maybe you should just let your camera serve as your gun, huh?

This time I couldn't help but chuckle aloud. "Yea, I could do all of that, Joan, but I wouldn't be hunting as I see it. Without really having at least the opportunity to kill game, it simply becomes something else. The latter is taking pictures, not hunting."

Joan and I went back and forth for a few more minutes. Then when the other guests started to leave, Kevin and Joan did, as well.

Afterward, I thought about how many times I had been in similar conversations with others like Joan and realized it's a never ending process. Though I've honed some of my arguments over the years, I too often find myself groping for the right ways to say them. About a month ago, however, I received a message on one one of the hunting sites I visit on the Web.

The message was a post-hunt report from a gentleman in California. A year earlier, he had asked me for a suggestion for a guided elk hunt. I put him in touch with an outfitter I knew well in Idaho. So Jimmy and his friend booked their hunt and spent seven days in the Selway-Bitterroot Wilderness Area.

Here's what he said in his message to me:


Tony,

We got shut out, but we have no complaints. The weather didn't cooperate with us; it was hot the entire week. Jerry did get a whitetail, a very small one. I haven't let him forget it. <g>

We had an excellent guide named Darrel. He was a good hunter, but he was from Colorado and didn't know our area. So it made things a little difficult.

We hunted Battle Ridge. You may know the area. Strange place! I pride myself on my uncanny ability to know exactly where I am at all times but Battle Ridge tested my built-in homing instincts to the max. While we never were so far lost as to lose track of Idaho, it did make finding the camp in time for lunch quite an experience. Our guide had troubles as well.

We saw one elk the day before the season began. I knew at the time we had jinxed our chances. <smile> A couple of days later I spotted a bull but only for a second. We heard almost no bugling at all.

Overall I consider the hunt to be one of the most enjoyable I've ever been on. It was intensive and focused, the way I prefer to hunt. Art was a great guy, a virtual encyclopedia of knowledge. I fully understand why you recommended him.

I believe two or three elk were missed by other hunters while we were there. One was a missed 25-yard shot from a resting position, according to Art's son Dean. No bushes, no trees, a clear shot. Incredible. I can't imagine how that can happen. I think I'd have been afraid to have him around me after that.

We saw some beautiful country, ate great food and gained a couple of pounds. We made some good friends from Pennsylvania, (hunters as well). We saw moose, bear, grouse, stupid chickens (a new one for me <smile> )and mountain quail--although Art says they don't exist there. He's wrong.

We got more exercise than I needed, saw more stars than I knew shined, talked long into the night of all matter of philosophical topics, and didn't forget those topics of a much lighter vein. The long, steep climbs afforded us many deep breaths of clear mountain air. We drank from springs that poured forth water as clean and sweet as how I remembered water tasting from my youth. We stalked silently and heard the sounds of the forest sing to us like violins. We warmed ourselves by the fire; we cooled ourselves with spring water. We smelled wild mint, and pine, and things I don't know the names of. We smelled sweat.

For a week I didn't think of my farm, nor worry about it. We hiked beyond what we thought our endurance would allow, and yet returned after seven days refreshed and renewed in spirit. I think it was a success, I think it was worth it. And I think I'll be going back.

Thanks Tony, for a great hunt. - Jimmy Marchini.

P.S. - I considered leaving the $10 with Art, but as he said, "The fat lady ain't sung yet."<smile>



It's too bad I received Jimmy's letter a few months after I talked to Joan. If I had it then, I would have printed out a copy and handed it to her with a, "Here's what hunting is all about, Joan."



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