Got my Ivory today. In the crate with it was a skull mount from a bushbuck. The skull mount was damaged from the ivory bouncing around unsecured. Question: Has an yone had probvlems with damaged trophies? If so was it resolved and how so?

How many other animals were in there? If you got your ivory to be honest if only a bush buck no big deal.

Mike

just as a matter of interest who was your dip and pack person ...

quote:

Originally posted by clayman216:
Got my Ivory today. In the crate with it was a skull mount from a bushbuck. The skull mount was damaged from the ivory bouncing around unsecured. Question: Has an yone had probvlems with damaged trophies? If so was it resolved and how so?

Yes, and you're out of luck. Enjoy the ivory and glue the skull mount together. Africa wins, again.

YES PLEASE POST THE NAME OF THE PACK COMPANY. THEY DO THIS CRAP ALL THE TIME. I HAD IVORY DAMAGED ONCE. USUALLY NOTHING TO DO AS YOU HAD TO PAY UP FRONT. IF YOU GOT INS ON SHIPMENT YOU COULD FILE A CLAIM. I TRIED THAT ONCE TOO. WASTE OF TIME

To say it is " only a bushbuck " is beside the point, the bushbuck could have been the # 1 SCi, it could have been a memorable hunt, a dream trophy etc etc, the ivory should have been crated separately period, in it's own wooden crate and then in the box with the bushbuck, any other method would have been cutting corners, who was the dip/ pack co

Today I noticed that the bottom of the ivory was also cracked. The items were crated in a box constructed of heavy cardboard framed by wood. In the box, the tusks were loose ( not tied to anything and the skull mount was loose,
( also not tied or secured )) and around it all was strips of paper from a paper shrredder- come on now are there people for real. I will
wait there reply and then post the identity of the shippers and packers ( from Zimbabwe )

From experience, ivory should have been wired into their own small wooden crate and then sealed then they should have been placed in another crate with any other trophies/ curios.

My presumption is that you paid for insurance as part of the shipping cost (check your documentation).

Get a repair quote from your taxidermist.

File a claim.

George

Retreever
I must disagree with you on the "only a bushbuck no big deal" quote.
My bushbuck is 1 of my all time favorite trophies & I would be thoroughly ticked off if it got damaged by carelessness or incompetence.
GOOD LUCK on getting this fixed.

working with the wildlife gallery, particularly the tannery we see every type of dip and pack ...from a professional crate to sleeping bags smooshed into suitcases from alaska almost still dripping with blood.

dip and pack is an area thats often overlooked but truly one of the very most important aspects of getting your trophies home in one piece ...please make a note to always check with outfitters how they do their dip and pack and make it a point to follow up on it to avoid this kind of dissapointment , its not "just a bushbuck" its your bushbuck and as important as any other trophy ...

let us know who the dip and pack was ...

Please let us know who the dipper and packer is. All the posts and comments are useless without that information.

Tom

I agree about the "it's just a bushbuck....I didn't get my bushbuck until my 13th safari...far after the Big 5...and on the trip collecting Hippo and Corc...so it was important to me!!...and it was a SCI GOLD...and would have been pi@#$% if it had been damaged!!
One comment though, this is one of the risks in having mounts done over there and shipped...this damage is a risk and YES I have had it happen as well....all birds damaged when taxidermist didn't secure the lifesized Caracal on a ROCK...literally, the plaster rock got loose and destroyed the birds!!
In most cases you are paying insurance in your shipment fees and you should immediately put the shipper (usually a freight forwarder) on notice and have him report it to the insurance company they used. You should also notify the inbound air carrier, they may have liability as well. You need to file soon so you don't lose your right to file, it is time sensitive.
I got my birds repaired here and the freight forwarder in JNB submitted the bill and I got paid.
The cracking of the ivory around the bases may be natural cracking as they dry?? If you can see impact damage, they probbly owe you some money too!!
This issue is becoming a bigger and bigger problem for hunters and I ahve warned Outfitters it will eventually affect them as well....if their clients can't get their trophies at a reasonable price and intact...many don't take me seriously!! I have seen a lot of changes in trophy handling since my first trip in 1979...and it AIN'T all for the Better either!! Good Luck!
Cheers

I will identify the dipper & packer after I get the response from them. If they do not make it right I will not hide the identity as it is totally obvious that they did not secure & protect the items damaged in a proper manner, all items were loose in the crate.

I don't blame you for holding off mentioning names until all else has failed.
Then you've got nothing to lose by spilling the beans.

quote:

Originally posted by clayman216:
I will identify the dipper & packer after I get the response from them. If they do not make it right I will not hide the identity as it is totally obvious that they did not secure & protect the items damaged in a proper manner, all items were loose in the crate.

And if they do "make it right" you will not share their names?

Was your purpose of this thread leverage?

Not me. If they straighten it out I will definately state that.

quote:

Originally posted by clayman216:
Not me. If they straighten it out I will definately state that.

Then if you will mention their names if they straighten it out and you plan on mentioning their names if they don't make good on it why don't you just mention their names now?

Geez Louise, some folks are just not happy unless they can watch a crap throwing fight. I respect Clayman216 for seeking to work it out before calling them out.

sorry to interrupt the internet lynching here, but who says the dip and pack company is to blame? USF&W opens the crates and removes the trophies for inspection, then replaces them. Is it even imaginable that a bunch of overpaid government goons could be responsible? THe same may happen on the other side of the pond as well. Both of these actions happen well after the D&P company has turned over possession.

Oh yeah, and how about this? Did you select the D&P company, or did you get the one your outfitter gave you? If you got the one he gave you, then does he/she not bear some responsibility in this? Have you contacted them and asked them for restitution?

Oh, and while we are on that subject, who is to say that the bushbuck wasn't broken or the ivory cracked when your ph turned them over to the d&p company he selected? Those tusks may have ridden just perfectly unattached.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Geez Louise, some folks are just not happy unless they can watch a crap throwing fight. I respect Clayman216 for seeking to work it out before calling them out.

Mike,

I don't get it. If you respect Clayman for trying to work it out before calling them out then why was a thread started on a forum about hunting before the problem was worked out?

Right now, thanks to this thread, every dip and pack service in Zim has a question mark until some resolution.

How many times have you seen someone come on here and say they were unhappy with something that happens but then won't mention the source of their problem?

Makes no sense.

I for one, would appreciate knowing who the DP service provider is now. I am leaving for a zim hunt in two weeks. If they make it right, please post this as well. However most people would want to know so they can avoid having to go through the hassle you are now experiencing.

I viewed his initial post as doing two things, (1) asking a question to see what others had experienced, and (2) a subtle warning shot over the bow of the responsible company to step up to the plate and do the right thing. Clearly he is trying to work with them and help them understand the importance of doing so and the consequences of not doing so. I think he is playing it appropriately if you ask me.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I viewed his initial post as doing two things, (1) asking a question to see what others had experienced, and (2) a subtle warning shot over the bow of the responsible company to step up to the plate and do the right thing. Clearly he is trying to work with them and help them understand the importance of doing so and the consequences of not doing so. I think he is playing it appropriately if you ask me.

As I said leverage.

Nothing to do with leverage. I was looking for possible ways to correct the damage without cost to me. It was obvious that the packaging was not proper as I could hear shifting around when driver took crate from truck. No signs in box that anything was EVER attached or secured.
I have had numerous other trrophy shipments from other places with many items crated and all were secured without damage to about twenty trophies. I shall give them a chance either waqy then post outcome. For now if you care to put something on me about your future trophies then I suggest you make prior inquiries so that you can be assured that your shipper/packer secures the load properly. I did not do that & found that they were lacking in the security of this shipment. I am for now giving the benifit of doubt to management as they may have an employee who did not follow company policy.

Hi Clayman216,

As MJines mentions that every Dip and Pack Service provider is sitting waiting for your e mail to arrive and are in question until this is resolved.

I have watched this thread with obvious interest. I had a recent shipment of ivory that F & WL rejected due to the weights being inaccurate and these were returned to Zim for correction. We secure the ivory to the base of the crate as the ends are fragile and do crack and break. When these tusks arrived in Harare we found that the crate had been damaged in transit and the ivory was damaged( perhaps like yours) and the tusks were no longer tied down. In addition the broken pieces were NOT in the crate which means they were probably broken when someone inspecting these inadvertantly dropped them. They were simply put back in the crate and returned to us like that.

Where does the blame lie? F & WL, The importing agent, the exporting agent, the hunting operator, the pack & dip agent? Its hard to say. There are so many people handling these crates between point A to point B - many of them who dont care if they load it upright, sideways or upside down. Ever noticed how airline ground staff handle luggage?

I am not trying offer excuses as the trophies should be packed right but perhaps clients who hunt elephant should consider taking out personal insurance to cover these valuable commodities.

I hope you get this resolved

Andy Hunter

quote:

Where does the blame lie? F & WL, The importing agent, the exporting agent, the hunting operator, the pack & dip agent? Its hard to say. There are so many people handling these crates between point A to point B - many of them who dont care if they load it upright, sideways or upside down. Ever noticed how airline ground staff handle luggage?

Finally, a voice of reason. I hope things are well with you and yours in Zim Andy.

Muvhini,
What company are you with ? How does your company secure the loads?

Clayman- andy (Muvhini) is his own show- he doesn't work for anyone else.

Many of us based in the North of Zim use him because he is fast, efficient and there are no problems other than those caused by our own parks dept- or the recieving countries equivalent (eg US F&W).

Having been on both sides of the fence in Zim- As a government officer unwrapping packed and dispatched trophy shipments for inspection and as a PH hoping my clients trophies will arrive intact, I am aware of the problems in Africa- and the legitimate chalenges faced by PH's/ Operators and honest d&p companies like Andy and, even worse, for the taxidermists. They treat, pack and send the stuff to the airport all wrapped in yards and yards of bubble wrap and duct tape and crate nailed shut etc....then a parks officer comes along with an order to do 20 random seraches and he has to cut open every trophy's, clear off all the packing. check numbers and trophy measurements, weight Ivory etc....and then repack it...without duct tape or fresh supplies of bubble wrap or even spare nails...got to use issue brown tape and re-use all nails/screws and packing materials.

And you hope the officer in charge isn't too busy to check on the clerk doing the inspection and it isn't friday after lunch and...Been on of the officers (as was Andy) who had to deal with all the clerks mistakes and lazyness- usually as an extra- that wasn't my official job but when you are very short of officers...

And I don't belive the US clerks are a whole lot better than our own and they also suffer from monday morning blues and friday 4pm itis...

Glad you are not doing a 'crusifiction by internet' until you get an answer - easy to finger someone but not always their fault.

BTW- power cuts have been bad and internet services poor these last few days- and in Zim you don't attend to emails instantly by culure.

I have seen this kind of packing before and loose skulls crated in shreded paper is just about the norm. Most are wrapped in bubble wrap but that is about it. I am often amazed that more are not broken in shipping. I am starting to form the opinion that it may be best have Euro mounts done in Africa. It seems a "finished" product may be packed and protected better than a raw skull. if yours was a finished Euro mount, there is no excuse for that kind of packing job.

Was your bushbuck skull a finished Euro mount or was it just a unfinished skull?

A broken skull is no big deal if you are going to do a shoulder mount but a Euro mount is another story. If the break is minor and all the pieces are there it can usually be repaired without too much of a problem.

It was a Euro mount. It was shrink sealed but all busted up under the shrink wrap. It is very obvious that the items were NEVER SECURED. There is no evidence in box of nay attachment points, wire, staps, plastic ties, bubble wrap or anything else. I am sure that if it was done by parks or whoeverf, they would not have taken the time to completely empty to box, claen out all the wrap and / or strapping or tie materials and then reseal it, if they didn't give a shit about my trophies why would they bother to clean out the box? Also photos back up my observations. I do not like paying for a job poorly done nor would I do a job poorly for pay !

Clayman216,

I am on chipitani@zol.co.zw or website www.zimbabwedipandpack.com. I will be happy to help you with any questions .

Regards

Andy

Andy,
I had a card of yours and was thinking of using it and I asked my PH about you. He said he did not know of you & pretty much insisted that the company I went with was ( "who we use"). Now I am sorry I did not push further on that issue.

t is great learning so much from this forum....This is a problem that worries me even as a newbie

Here is the outcome of my emails & contacts regarding my damaged trophies. The hunt was with Tshabezi Safaris, ( Zimbabwe ). My communications were with Clinton Rogers with whom I hunted. Bottom line was that they are doing nothing regarding my damaged trophies.
Clinton stated that he viewed the shipment and it was properly packaged. They ( Tshabezi ) were the packers.
Like I said before, the damaged bushbuck & ivory were loose, in a crate made of cardboard with a wooden frame I everything inside was only packed with shredded paper. Nothing was tied down or wrapped in bubblewrap or something that would protect it from shifting and crashing into one another. There were no tiedowns for any item in question, nor signs of any tie downs or anything to secure the load ever being there. There were no inner walls to seperate any of the trophy items. In short, it was NOT properly packed and I paid to have it PROPERLY PACKED. I do not know if the ivory can be suitibly fixed to my satisfaction & if so I guess it will be on me. It is too bad that my
hunt ended this way. To be fair it was great hunt but it could have been 100 percent good memories if they manned up, admitted the poor packing and made restitution. I guess its easy to " pack " trophies, but somewhat slightly harder to pack them properly.

OK. Thanks for the information. Tshabezi Safaris, Clinton Rogers.

Tom

Sounds like someone to put on the DO NOT HUNT WITH LIST.

There was another issue with this company a couple years back if I recall. Had to do with messed up paperwork delaying trophy shipment. I wouldn't hunt with them.