Is it still required to pack your ammo in a locked box inside your checked baggage? My instructions from Travel With Guns is somewhat ambiguous. "Ammunition must be separated from weapons and packed within checked luggage but must be properly secured in an ammunition case or solid box. No ammunition may be packed loosely in checked baggage." I have my ammo packed in plastic boxes suitable as to caliber. I would rather not have to pack my ammo in another locked box if I do not have to as the locked box adds weight and bulk.

Where you heading Hoot?

There's a difference between international law and individual airline rules.

You agent has quoted the legal requirements but there may be other rules you have to comply with as well so you have two options.

You can either check on the website of whichever airline you're flying with and follow whatever it says there.

OR

Simply arrange and pack things so you can put your ammo case (MTM etc) either into your rifle case, your ordinary checked baggage or a separate locked case as required by the individual check in idiot/agent when you check in.

Of the two options, I find the latter causes less arguments and hassle at check in.

I am going to South Africa and I will be hunting with Swartki Safaris with Charles and Phillip Price.

It doesn't matter who you're hunting with but does matter who you're flying with so look at the appropriate website and see what it says there under carriage of ammunition.

Thank you for the information. Putting the ammo in the case with the rifle is not an option. However, my last trip to South Africa when I was leaving from East London Airport, a SAA ticket agent said "We have a problem your ammo is in your checked baggage and it is supposed to be in the rifle case. No amount of talking to the fellow and showing him the regulations would convince him. So I put the ammo in the rifle case. Upon arrival in Johannesburg I was paged to go to a certain numbered office. When I got there, another guy says, "We have a problem, your ammo is in the rifle case and it is supposed to be in your checked baggage. It was apparent to me what was happening. So I asked, what dead president will fix this. A Benjamin Franklin 100.00 U.S. would fix the problem. That was the only time I was told to put the ammo in the gun case.

US$100...... Strewth. They saw you coming!

The latter of the two options I suggested is a much easier (and cheaper) option.

All you gotta do is put it wherever they say they want it.

As you've experienced, ticket agents change the regs on a whim. When I went in 2008, the regs said locked container in your checked baggage. However, upon checking in at JNB to Port Elizabeth, I was told it had to be in its own separate bag. Luckily, I hahad my field/truck bag in my suitcase with extra locks. I emptied my field gear into my checked bag and used my field bag for the ammunition.

TIA. Good luck and good hunting.

The easy way to do it is to make sure you have room for the MTM (or similar) boxes in your rifle case, a lockable box just large enough to accommodate the same boxes and enough room in your checked baggage to take the lockable box and then you've got all the bases covered and you simply ask how they want it and comply.

If someone further down the line wants it different, then you just have them produce your bags and rifle case and repack according to their wishes.

That way, you don't have any arguments and you don't pay any bribes.

Simple really.

Find a small locking hard sided box and tape a label on the outside with your contact information. Place your ammo in the box and place the box in your luggage. Keep quiet about the ammo when checking in.

If they ask then tell them where the ammo is and follow their instructions.

If they don't ask then all is well.

If they find the ammo in the luggage and it is not allowed to be in the luggage, they will page you. Advise them to take the ammo box out of your luggage and issue you a luggage ticket for it. Now you have one more piece of luggage to keep up with.

As stated above this rule changes from day to day and from airline to airline.

On nine trips my ammo was packed in a hard sided box in my luggage and arrived at my destination still in my luggage. On this trip it was the same routine until arriving in Amsterdam to change planes. I was paged and they wanted my permission to take the ammo box out of the luggage and issue a luggage ticket for it. So I arrived home in Houston with three pieces of luggage instead of two.

On a side note my rifle case and the ammo box came out onto the luggage carousel at G. Bush Intl. Airport. On all previous trips the rifle case was side tracked to the Special Luggage room at the baggage area.

When traveling to Africa on hunting trips expect things to change and just adapt and overcome. Be calm and patient and things will usually work out ok.

quote:

Keep quiet about the ammo when checking in.

BIG mistake to not declare an item that falls under the classification of Dangerous Goods and in the current world political situation just might land you in a sea of shite!

I have been to Zim twice and Namibia once last July. I have never moved around SA. I cannot speak to that. I have flown twice from Dulles and once from JFK. On a personal level, even though regs allow to pack ammo in case w/guns. I would not do that because, if some one was to take my rifle(s) I'm not going to give them the complete pkg.
I have always upon check-in declared my ammo (in checked bag) and my rifle(s) in case. the ammo is in an MTM box locked w/in the weight limit. I also check my gear straight- thru. I also try to make sure TSA has stickered my bags @ least on this side, if I can.
I have had my bag with ammo and container opened. On balance, I have never had a problem doing it this way.
The bottom line, airline regs trump TSA because they seem to be tighter.

You guys scaring me
Two years ago was last time I went to Afroka and ammo was good enough in original box in checked luggage
I tell, I can see next time I'm renting gun
Travel would seem so much better

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
You guys scaring me
Two years ago was last time I went to Afroka and ammo was good enough in original box in checked luggage
I tell, I can see next time I'm renting gun
Travel would seem so much better

No need to panic. The Air Navigation Order, Carriage of Dangerous Goods Act is the ruling international legislation and it stipulates manufacturers packaging OR other container that keeps every round separated from every other round so original packaging or MTN style boxes are just fine.

The strictest ban is on black powder, black powder substitutes and detonators but loaded smokeless ammo is fine as long as it's packaged (and declared) properly and if you pack as I suggest then one shouldn't have any problems at all.

Gents:
When I get to SA and spend the night and go on up to Zim., SAA takes my ammo out of the checked bag and tags it separately for the flight north. This can't be done if the ammo is in MTM or manufacturer's boxes. But I keep my ammo in a small locked hard case. It does indeed seem it depends on whom is staffing the counter. When I depart for trips from Alaska it is easy from here as AK is a gun friendly airport. The only down side of the ammo hard case is when I've been had ammo weighed, sometimes the hard case is unopened and that weight has counted towards the 11 pound limit.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

quote:

Keep quiet about the ammo when checking in.

BIG mistake to not declare an item that falls under the classification of Dangerous Goods and in the current world political situation just might land you in a sea of shite!

As I said, I have followed this procedure ten times now and never a cross word from anybody.

Then again I am a hunter traveling with a legitimate weapon and ammunition.

If I had some sort of explosive device concealed in my luggage then, yes, I would expect to land in a sea of shit.

When someone asks a question here all we can do is give an answer based on our experience. First hand experience. We could spend days bantering back and forth about what "might" happen but that is of no help to the person asking for advice.

Muletrain

When you check in anywhere, you'll see a bloody great sign behind the check in agent or on the top of the check in desk with a list and pictures of items that are forbidden to travel and/or that MUST be declared by law....... and ammunition is on there as an item that must be declared.

By not declaring it, you are (technically) committing an offence that could not only (at least in theory) mean your bags might not travel and/or that you might be offloaded from the flight but you can also face prosecution and significant penalty.

Whether or not they would do anything about it in reality is a different matter but we do live in a post 9/11 world which the IS lunatics are trying very hard to destroy completely so I reckon it's better to stick to the letter of the law rather than take chances....... but hey, it's your flight, your hunt, your money and your freedom.

The fact that you've got away with it in the past doesn't mean it's a good idea to do it or advise others to do it in the future.

Shakari,

Are you the sort of guy who has nothing better to do than argue on internet websites?

quote:

Originally posted by Muletrain:
Shakari,

Are you the sort of guy who has nothing better to do than argue on internet websites?

No mate. I'm not.... but I am the sort of guy that considers aircraft and passenger's lives and security very important issues and who happens to know the rules of air travel and carriage of dangerous goods requirements pretty well and the (very good) reasons for them.

Are you the sort of guy who believes it acceptable to encourage others to break the law and ignore safety requirements? - I doubt you are but my point is that what you were advising others to do is against the law and that that law is there for bloody good reason.

Which is why I said it's a BIG mistake to check in an item that's designated as dangerous goods without declaring it as you're supposed to do. (which in itself is illegal)

IMO the easiest thing to do is:
1. Pack ammo in separate pelican box and lock it
2. Put pelican in luggage
3. Pay for meet and greet service such as Air2000

I personally used Gracy's meet/greet and they handled everything including SAPS and check in next day for connecting flight. I never had not one person ask about ammo, and it remained in my checked bag. I'm sure Gracy's "connections" had something to do with it, and I was happy to pay Gracy's fee for handling this crap. Peace of mind was worth the $150 fee and I'll do it again in a heartbeat.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Gents:
When I get to SA and spend the night and go on up to Zim., SAA takes my ammo out of the checked bag and tags it separately for the flight north. ...

I just flew to RSA and spent the night at Afton house. The next morning I flew to Bulawoyo. My ammo was in a hard case in checked luggage, but SAA did not take it out and tag it separately. Though they did charge me $12 for excess luggage as they seem to go by total weight allowance rather than weight per luggage like Delta.

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:
IMO the easiest thing to do is:
1. Pack ammo in separate pelican box and lock it
2. Put pelican in luggage
3. Pay for meet and greet service such as Air2000

I personally used Gracy's meet/greet and they handled everything including SAPS and check in next day for connecting flight. I never had not one person ask about ammo, and it remained in my checked bag. I'm sure Gracy's "connections" had something to do with it, and I was happy to pay Gracy's fee for handling this crap. Peace of mind was worth the $150 fee and I'll do it again in a heartbeat.

The above is always my recommendation and money well spent.

Mark

This is very simple..Get a plano pistol case and two TSA locks. put your ammo in your normal ckecked bag..I hae done this at least 4 times no problem.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
The easy way to do it is to make sure you have room for the MTM (or similar) boxes in your rifle case, a lockable box just large enough to accommodate the same boxes and enough room in your checked baggage to take the lockable box and then you've got all the bases covered and you simply ask how they want it and comply.

If someone further down the line wants it different, then you just have them produce your bags and rifle case and repack according to their wishes.

This

Ammo in locked pelican case with luggage tag, pelican in checked bag.
Fine for Delta-Joberg.
But Air Botswana wanted the Pelican checked as its own piece of luggage.
Fine.
Pull out pelican, check separately.

Always have plan B and even plan C in place.

Shakari and Duckear covered it. I will confirm.

I hunted Eastern Cape this past May 2014.

Flying SAA from U.S. to Johannesburg. The ammo should be in a lockable box INSIDE your checked baggage. You must declare it at check in.

When flying from Johannesburg to East London (still on SAA). The lockable box must be removed from the checked baggage and checked separately. The rules are different flying international and within South Africa. It does not matter if you are not changing airlines.

Be prepared to accommodate either requirement.

Your firearms permit will be checked several times on the flight out. Keep it handy.

Thanks guys. I was sure that you had to place your ammo in a locked box as I bought the boxes and used them on previous trips. When I placed the boxes in the suitcases, my wife asked "what are the orange boxes for?" I told her what they were and she told me that I was essentially full of crap as we never had to do that before. I agreed to ask on this forum and she was able to read that the regulation was still in effect. Again my thanks,

Hoot

quote:

Originally posted by eyeman:
This is very simple..Get a plano pistol case and two TSA locks. put your ammo in your normal ckecked bag..I hae done this at least 4 times no problem.

Which is what you do to get to africa, once there and flying on or back to the U.S. they ask you to take it out of your normal checked bag, so now you have 3 checked bags, your rifle case, your normal checked bag, and your locked ammo case. When you get back to U.S. And claim your bags you will now put it in your normal checked bag. Now as Shakari stated, there are individual airline rules that apply, so check to make sure this process is in compliance.

You also need to bear in mind that international law forbids carriage of firearms and ammunition on any aircraft any commercial aircraft where the baggage hold can be accessed from the cabin whilst the aircraft is in flight so check your aircraft type on those short domestic flights to avoid any unpleasant, last minute surprises.

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
You guys scaring me
Two years ago was last time I went to Afroka and ammo was good enough in original box in checked luggage
I tell, I can see next time I'm renting gun
Travel would seem so much better

trust me-IT IS!- not to mention cheaper because of no airline handling fees for firearms that some charge, no permit handling fees,...to each his own, though.

When we went to SA in 2013 the ammo had to be in a locked(TSA locks) box in our checked in luggage. Once we were in SA they had us take it out of the luggage and it went separate. There was not added charge for the extra piece of "luggage". Coming home it was back into our check in bag.
WE used SAA/United/Virgin airlines

Trust me. Put it all in a separate box and put that box right at the end of your duffel so it can be removed and replaced easily. It may be at various way points.

Three trips to Africa, two via SAA with connections both internationally (Bulawayo) and domestic (Port Elizabeth) and my ammunition has always been locked in a separate case inside my locked bag.

I've never had it taken out and checked separately but I am prepared in case it is.

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:
IMO the easiest thing to do is:
1. Pack ammo in separate pelican box and lock it
2. Put pelican in luggage
3. Pay for meet and greet service such as Air2000

I personally used Gracy's meet/greet and they handled everything including SAPS and check in next day for connecting flight. I never had not one person ask about ammo, and it remained in my checked bag. I'm sure Gracy's "connections" had something to do with it, and I was happy to pay Gracy's fee for handling this crap. Peace of mind was worth the $150 fee and I'll do it again in a heartbeat.

+1 ditto!

AIR FRANCE SUCKS

I will post separately under AIR FRANCE SUCKS as to the results of that one as it was a near disaster in regards to hunting baggage, gun cases, and ammo. Their rules make travel with guns a cluster.

Just returned Friday from Joberg thru Paris on Air France. I have flown over on Delta/AF thru Paris, but never returned that way.

Don't listen to much here, not gospel. Also, this may be news to travel agents. Go to individual originating airline and Avoid Air France at all costs.

I am busy now sending an email to my travel agent, hoping these are new rules they didn't know about, when I saw this post.

BTW, not a newbie as this is my 12th trip since 2000 and thought I knew everything also.

.
.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
You also need to bear in mind that international law forbids carriage of firearms and ammunition on any aircraft where the baggage hold can be accessed from the cabin whilst the aircraft is in flight so check your aircraft type on those short domestic flights to avoid any unpleasant, last minute surprises.

I guess that rules-out charter planes then.

Note the phrase 'international law' which refers to the Air Navigation Order, Carriage of Dangerous Goods Act that in turn, refers to all commercial passenger aircraft. Private charters are not covered by said act.

If you do a search on my previous posts, you'll find I have often referred to that act for many years which incidentally has been in place since the end of WWII and the rules for carriage of such items have remained much the same since it was originally written and adopted by all countries around the world.

One exception is they lifted the ban on (some) ex military calibre rifles in recent years.

Oh right - above you said 'any aircraft' - let's not confuse people any more.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
Oh right - above you said 'any aircraft' - let's not confuse people any more.

Oh 'scuse me ....... I missed out the word commercial.

I did however make reference to 'short domestic flights'.

I'll just go off and slit my wrists!

amendments made.

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:
IMO the easiest thing to do is:
1. Pack ammo in separate pelican box and lock it
2. Put pelican in luggage
3. Pay for meet and greet service such as Air2000

I personally used Gracy's meet/greet and they handled everything including SAPS and check in next day for connecting flight. I never had not one person ask about ammo, and it remained in my checked bag. I'm sure Gracy's "connections" had something to do with it, and I was happy to pay Gracy's fee for handling this crap. Peace of mind was worth the $150 fee and I'll do it again in a heartbeat.

I agree but also do two other things:

4. Leave all the unfired ammo with my PH for the return trip.

5. Some airlines specify factory or fiber boxes. Just to make sure, I put all the ammo in "factory boxes" inside the plastic ammo box. My "factory boxes" are old .300 Weatherby boxes, even if the ammo is .375 or .458. Nobody ever complained about this although i have had people in Zim count each and every round upon entry.

Leaving all excess ammo with anyone in a lot of places and cases is "illegal" both by the one who leaves it and the one who takes possession of it according to a lot of experts out there. Maybe some of the "experts" here can expound on this a bit?

When you take 60 or so rounds into a Country and that fact is verified when you arrive by authorities, then leave with zero it can raise a lot of questions, eyebrows and create potential problems for the hunter upon leaving said Country. I have had ammo counted when leaving Namibia and questioned about rounds fired. Might not be a big deal, but anything that has the potential of me landing in jail, missing my flight or other circumstance by an official and his/her mood that day is simply not worth the risk.

Indi, please give specific Airlines, name them please, who insist on fiber or factory boxes for your ammo. All the ones I fly have no such rule so would be nice to know about the ones that fit your statement. Thanks.

Larry Sellers
SCI(International)Life Member
R8 Blaser

quote:

Originally posted by Indy:

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:
IMO the easiest thing to do is:
1. Pack ammo in separate pelican box and lock it
2. Put pelican in luggage
3. Pay for meet and greet service such as Air2000

I personally used Gracy's meet/greet and they handled everything including SAPS and check in next day for connecting flight. I never had not one person ask about ammo, and it remained in my checked bag. I'm sure Gracy's "connections" had something to do with it, and I was happy to pay Gracy's fee for handling this crap. Peace of mind was worth the $150 fee and I'll do it again in a heartbeat.

I agree but also do two other things:

4. Leave all the unfired ammo with my PH for the return trip.

5. Some airlines specify factory or fiber boxes. Just to make sure, I put all the ammo in "factory boxes" inside the plastic ammo box. My "factory boxes" are old .300 Weatherby boxes, even if the ammo is .375 or .458. Nobody ever complained about this although i have had people in Zim count each and every round upon entry.