Has any member here managed to take a leopard by chance in Namibia? I've noticed quite a few outfitters there who offer leopard (and cheetah) on a "by chance" basis and was wondering what the success rate was. I'd imagine it's not that high but would love to hear some of the success stories. Any specifics (location, circumstances, etc.) would be great.

Thanks in advance.

No stories here. I've seen quite a few leopards in daylight but just fleeting glances. I'd say a snowball has a better chance in hell then shooting a leopard by chance.

As Will says, chances of taking a mature Leopard by chance are about as rare as rocking horse shit...... another problem is permitting. It'd be relatively unusual for a landowner or concession holder in most parts of Africa to just have a spare Leopard licence laying around at your convenience and in theory at least, you're supposed to have a CITES permit etc from your country of origin before you shoot the Leopard anyway.

I'm not very sure of the exact situation in Namibia for number and availability of permits and maybe Karl or Vaughan could comment.........

Steve, I never heard of having to have the CITES prior to hunting. It just doesn"t make secse as the permit is to import. I could take a Leopard and not import it and would not need the permit.

i can tell you in the USA it is easier to have your cites before the hunt. You can get one after the fact but I once was grilled alot more when applying after the animal was dead. might have been a one time pain because of a over zealous wildlife employee but it did take more proof than just getting the permit ahead. when I show up on my hunt i will have mine in hand.Not sure how it works in other countries.

Be careful of being offered a leopard or lion that just happens to become available while you are there in RSA or Namibia. I know for a fact that at least some of these are canned animals. Esp. lion.

465H&H

DOJ

To the best of my knowledge, you're ALWAYS supposed to have your CITES import permit issued to you before you hunt the animal...... and leave a copy with the outfitter before you leave.

I believe that applies to all African species that require a CITES permit in all African countries...... However as CITES couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery, that doesn't always happen and sometimes it's done the other way around.

I will be hunting Leopard in Namibia in July, as part of a 14 day PG hunt, therefore I was looking at the CITES permit application just this week. There is a section that asks if the animal is alive and where hunted or second part if the animal is dead and to be imported. This implys that you can in fact apply after the hunt. So, I called my outfitter and he said wait till I get back to apply (As you know the success rate on Leopard in Namibia is lower than most of Zim). It takes about two months for approval and then you fax a copy to your PH.

It' my understanding in Namibia the outfitter has to register the hunter name and declare he's hunting for leopard before the hunt ( Registering is free ). If the hunters is successful he can then apply for a CITES permit. Seeing a leopard in the wild is rare, But I will tell you I seen one both times I went to Namibia! Last year I was sleeping in a blind and a really nice tom walked out 50 feet from the blind. My wife woke me up saying there a warthog coming to the water! Got some blurry pictures but I don't know how to post them .

Robert,

It's two seperate requirements. The Namibian requirement is to satisfy the Namibian game laws/game dept. The CITES permit is to satisfy the CITES licencing system. - Of course, the USA probably also has some kind of additional requirement for US F&WS, but I'm not sure what that is and it's probably worth checking with them directly.

However, CITES do expect/require you to get the permit before you shoot the animal. - It's also sensible to do so, as by doing it that way round, you can be sure they won't refuse you an import permit for any reason. I have to say, it is quite common for guys to do it the other way round, but they are taking a chance when they do it that way........... I seem to remember there was someone who posted here a while ago who had some kind of licencing problem with getting a Leopard into the USA? - Don't know what the outcome was though.

If you're battling with posting pics, feel free to e mail them to me, and I'll be happy to do it for you.

I discourage my client to take out a CITES permit before the hunt. One reason is that if 1000 are taken out in the US (as an example) and 200 are actually imported, some-one might say leopard are very endangered, so lets stop the hunting. The other reason is the local taxidermy takes care of all that paperwork for the hunter when the time comes. As far as I know, you are allowed to take out a permit for an Appendix 1 or 2 animal after you have successfully hunted it, and I would recommend that route to anybody.

As far as Namibia's permit system on leopard is concerned- any hunting guide or PH can apply for his client to hunt leopard (or cheetah), if there is quota available (Namiibia has a sport hunting qota of 250 leopard), a hunting permit will be issued. When such a cat is successfully hunted, the details must be reported to the permit office within 48h, so that the quota are not exceeded. As a matter of interest, in 2006 there was 243 leopards shot of the 250 quota, that was the highest number shot as trophies in one year, so far. And the permit is NOT free, it costs N$25, not a lot opf money, but definately not free.

As to seeing leopoard in the wild, I would guess at the frequency being in the order of 1 in 30 hunts in the Khomas area, 1 in 100 in most other where they are found. I have seen 3 leopards in a 7 day hunt in the Caprivi (without a leopard permit I might add), then not see one for months after that. Incedently, a hunter hunting with one of the PH's working for me shot and missed just such a cat last week in the Khomas Hochland.

quote:

As far as I know, you are allowed to take out a permit for an Appendix 1 or 2 animal after you have successfully hunted it, and I would recommend that route to anybody.

It has been a long time since I was worried about it, but I think that is the way it still is.

As I understand it, the Tanzanian government - for its own reasons, perhaps - wants to see your CITES import permits before issuing you a hunting license when leopard and elephant are on the dance card.

Not sure why, and other places are definitely different, but that is the course I have had to follow when applying for a license to hunt in Tanzania.

The Tanzanian GD will issue a hunting licence without a CITES import permit from your country of origin, but they don't issue any export permits (CITES or otherwise) until they've seen the relevant import permit or an appropriate letter of intent(and of course, the trophy fees have been paid)

However, as I said, the correct way to do it is to get your import permit before you take the animal. Although that's the correct way to do it, it does mean that you'll almost certainly have to renew the permit before you import.

That said, CITES will issue an import licence after the event, mostly because they're so disorganised, they don't know if you've taken the cat or not until you present it at customs.

The other problem with getting your import permit after the event is that these animals are obviously on quota and if for some reason such as African disorganisation/bribery/corruption etc etc, more could possibly get shot than are on that years quota, by the time you apply for your permit, the full quota number of import permits may already have been issued - and then you either can't import your trophy at all or (if you're lucky) you might have to wait until the next quota is issued the following year. During that time, the trophy might get damaged in some way.....

Hope that helps.

I'll add to my previous post by saying that most African countries issue (more ordinary) export licences before the import licences are issued from the country of origin. Tanzania do it the other way round. (God knows why!) - So the country of import either has to issue the import licences first or issue a letter stating they will issue an import licence as soon as the trophies are released for export, which is enough to satisfy the TZ authorities.

Karibu Afrika!!!!

pinotguy

I guess the answer to the original question would be as others have said slim to none. I think in GENERAL Namibian ranches do not have lots of unsophisticated leopards. What leopards there are will be very switched on and wary. Dog hunts though can be very successful there.

In places were leopards are not persecuted you will find them in daylight on occasion and I guess I could have shot 2 females and 1 male out of the 8 I've seen that were not on baits.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
I guess I could have shot 2 females and 1 male out of the 8 I've seen that were not on baits.

Mark

Mark,

Was this in Namibia?

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
The Tanzanian GD will issue a hunting licence without a CITES import permit from your country of origin, but they don't issue any export permits (CITES or otherwise) until they've seen the relevant import permit or an appropriate letter of intent(and of course, the trophy fees have been paid).

I have been advised by more than one outfitter/agent that the Tanzanian game department will not issue a hunting license with leopard and elephant on it without a copy of the US hunters CITES import permit for those animals. So, I have done it that way, i.e., got my permits beforehand.

Just to be clear, are you saying that your experience is different?

Also, I hesitate to say this, since I am sure I will jinx myself, but I have spent two evenings in two separate leopard blinds and seen two different tom leopards.

I have also seen two other leopards in broad daylight - one of which was sitting down in the brush and calmly watching us pass by in the truck from less than 5 yards away!

But these were all in Tanzania, rather than Namibia. My sense - although I have not hunted leopard there - is that in Namibia leopards are more pressured and therefore generally more wary.

Mike

I don't think your experience is unique. I killed 3 leoaprds and have set in a blind exactly 6 times. Leopards are just not that hard to kill in good areas with good cat men.

Jim

In Namibia I saw leopard tracks only. The daylight leopards I have seen were in remote areas of Zambia, Zimbabwe, Botswana and Tanzania.

Mark

Yes and no. Some very experienced safari hunters have sat for weeks in a blind with good PHs in good areas and it just didn't come together. I'm not into jinxes but some guys that do very well otherwise, have a terrible time with leopards.

I shot a leopard in Namibia a year or so ago and, upon advice of my PH, did not bother to apply for CITES until after returning. This did not seem to create any problems or delays.

I've also seen toms during daylight in the rocks there, and came close to shooting one, but he slipped off as I was drawing down on him. A friend had a close range shot on a big Zim leopard during daylight, unexpected, and missed.....

mrlexma
Whoever told you it was a game dept requirement was (at least) mistaken. Although we advise our clients to have the CITES permit beforehand, we buy the hunting licences some considerable time in advance of the clients arrival and 99% of the time, haven't seen a copy of the import licence, and have never had any kind of a problem with getting Leopard & Elephant on the licence.....but as I said, it is advisable - and technically correct to have the import permits in advance.

Last year, I also did 2 seperate Leopard hunts in Tanzania on a freelance basis for other outfitters and neither client even knew they were supposed to have CITES permits until I told them. Nevertheless, they had Leopard (and Elephant) on their permits.......

MR:

My son was issued a hunting license in Tanzania including leopard before he got his CITES in 2007.

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

Aha, the old if you see a Leopard you can shoot it on your plainsgame hunt trick..I would run like hell if I got such an offer...

I see no reason why a sane person would not pay 25 N = $4US for the chance to shoot a leopard and only pay a normal trophy fee. This practice is very common in Namibia. If Steve will post the pictures of the Leopard that came into our water hole last year at 10 am.
You can tell me if its worth the cost of a cup of coffee!

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Aha, the old if you see a Leopard you can shoot it on your plainsgame hunt trick..I would run like hell if I got such an offer...

Why is that? Every one that I have heard of was based on TF only if the opportunity presented itself. We're not talking about RSA, frozen leopards, etc.

I have a similar situation coming up where IF I see a lion or lioness (in the Caprivi) and IF it is available on quota then I can take it for 10k or 2k respectively. Heck of a deal and nothing wasted if we don't see one. It doesn't happen often but a few have made out ok. Was it Mrlexma who got his lion that way in the same area last year? Nice cat too as I recall.

While I was researching different outfitters in Namibia I called different references I was given. One had booked 10 days of PG but got what he was after by day 6. He was offered a chance to go for a Lion that was killing cattle North of where they were after the PH got a call about a permit being issued. He was offered the Cat at $8,500 but turned it down because he wasn’t interested and only had three days left.

He did some wing shooting instead.

Guys,

Here's the pics from Robert Johnson.

Nice.

This leopard was cool to watch, He never drank from the water tank. In the picture hes smelling ware warthogs had rubbed on the back side of the water tank. If you look close he has a ring or spots under his neck. My guess he is 120 lb, not huge but a nice.

Wayne Grant in his book "Into The Thorns" says that almost all, if not all leopards have a "necklace" around their neck. Some more pronounced than others. That one appears to be quite pronounced and beautiful. Nice cat.

I've got Wayne's book on the way and just got his brochure today.

Last year in Namibia I overlapped a couple of days with another hunter that was just finishing up. He shot a 'leopard of opportunity' at a water hole about two days before I got there.