Well after my recent post about "which rifle for plainsgame and deer" I have settled on a 30'06 or a 300 wm. Looking for insight on the how flat the trajectory is for both and the difference in grains (low end and high end). The make will be wichester model 70 but haven't decided in wood, blue or stainless. I know the 300 wm weighs more but not an issue yet. The sporter III is very nice with the traditional look but would sure wear quicker. My grandfather always hunted with his brownings (Belgiums) and said if your going have it you might as well use it, worn spots show character. Inwhich I still use them today more from being partial to them. Back to the 30'06 or 300 wm, I don't believe the recoil will be too much to handle but I haven't shot either one. Just for extra information I found out that through Walmart's website you can order any Winchester, Weatherby, Remington and Browning for about $200 or more dollars cheaper than any retail store. Thanks everyone

In my limited experience, I would think that plains game and deer are two totally different things. The .30-06 would be at the high end of deer cartridges. It has more energy than needed for most deer hunting, and will do the job nicely on most plains game animals if a good quality bullet is used. At a minimum, I would use 180 grain Nosler Partition bullets with the .30-06.

The .300 magnums are much more than needed for deer. having said that, I have taken two mule deer with my .300 Weatherby while I was on an elk hunt. Nearly all of my deer have been taken with my .257 Roberts. Nearly all were one shot kills.

I used my .300 Weatherby on my first trip to Africa for most of my plains game animals. The bullet used was the 200 grain Trophy Bonded bullet. It performed very well. African plains game species are a bit tougher than whitetail or mule deer IMO, so the .300 Winchester Magnum would not be excessive.

Shot placement is much more important than the choice between these two calibers.

Bayou,

Here is the line of demarcation as far as Africa goes. I would hesitate on shooting an eland with a 30.06. I would have no problem shooting an eland with a .300 win mag and a quality 200gr. bullet.

I know that many have killed eland with a 30.06, but for me, having that little bit extra that the .300 win mag offers helps on tough animals like eland, zebra and wildebeest.

Regards,

Terry

If you shoot the 300 wm as well as you shoot the 30-06, go with the 300. If not, got with the 30-06. If you can't hit what you are shooting at where you need to hit it, the faster more powerful bullet loses its advantage.

Get the .300 Winny, you can load it like a .300 or load it like a 30-06. The bottom line is, if you ever need the .300 it is there. Good shooting.

Way back when....I used a .300 Weatherby Magnum on my first 2 safaris. 26" barrel, close to 10 lbs, awkward stock, and sharp chop to the jaw each shot. I was shooting a lot of game on each safari back then. My right eyebrow still looks like the seam in a football. My third safari I took a .30-06 Remington 700 Classic I had used in the States for elk, deer bear, etc. It weighs 8 lbs total, has a handy 22" barrel, and a stock that is comfortable to shoot. I found it to be most effective on everything from duiker to eland. All with a 180 Nosler handload @ 2,725 fps. Many subsequent safaris proved the worth of that combination. Hippo (220 grain Hornady solids), Mt. Nyala, numerous common plains game species, dozens of warthogs, plus lion, and leopard were all collected with that rifle. It still shoots into 1" @100 yards when I do my part.
I have owned several .300 Win. Mags, all properly stocked and scoped weighing under 9 lbs with 24" barrels but that old .30-06 is still the one I put in the case when I'm going on safari. Need to get a new #4457. The last one I got (1980) is getting a bit hard to read.

Rich Elliott

DougC

Have used 30-06 extensively in Africa for plains game. It's my favorite after the 375. I have had no trouble with Zebra,Wildebeest,Kudu, and lesser animals and would have NO qualms on using it for Eland. I shoot 220gr Noslers exclusivly and in my rifle they perform well with 1" groups the norm. The rifle is a custom 1939 Mdl 70 with a Krieger barrel.

Just in general principle I would not recommend a 300 Win Mag to anyone who hasn't shot extensively. Recoil from that round is brisk and can cause some to develop bad shooting habits before they ever become a good shooter. The 30 06 has an excellent reputation with plains game. Ask your PH. It is their job to know.

quote:

My grandfather always hunted with his brownings (Belgiums) and said if your going have it you might as well use it, worn spots show character. Inwhich I still use them today more from being partial to them.

Do you have these rifles now? What calibers are they?

I would carry a 375 in Africa. The reason is that the person who looks out for me best is myself. Besides the cartridge is cool. Sure enough some opportunity may come up for damage control or some other activity. Nice to be prepared.

As to the 30-06 vrs the 300 mags on deer for most hunting the rifle is more important than the cartridge within reason. In general 30-06 rifles are handier than magnums.

What rifles do you have in your battery now?

I just got back from RSA last week and I took a .375H&H everything I shot fell within 50 yds. I asked the ph the same question about the 30-06. He said they done extremely well but like shooting with a handgun you have to know where the bullet is going. If you can accurately shoot a 30-06 it will take most of what africa has to offer.

I've used the .300 Win. Mag. more than any other cartridge for plainsgame, and it's sort of my standard cartridge. However if I were in your position and didn't have any experience with either the .30-06 or .300 Win. whatsoever, there's no question that my recommendation would be .30-06. You have to remember this: it's not the thunder that kills -- it's the lightning -- and I'd rather see someone who's just sort of starting out go with a milder-kicking, quieter cartridge than the .300 Win.

Quite hoenstly, there isn't any African plainsgame species that I wouldn't shoot with the .30-06 with strong 180 gr. bullets loaded to 2700 fps. or a bit better. I'd just make sure that I had an accurate load developed around the Nosler Partition, Swift A-Frame, North Fork, Trophy Bonded, Barnes X, or Winchester Fail-Safe bullets -- whichever one shoots best in my rifle. Zero your rifle for 200 yds., put in plenty of practice time at the range, and you're ready to go hunting.

AD

I agree with Allen. Go with the 30-06. You will enjoy shooting it. Any PH worth his salt will get you close enough to use the 30-06.

I've often said, the 30-06 is a boring caliber. Everything that you shoot with it just dies.

TerryR

quote:

Originally posted by Bayou:
I have settled on a 30'06 or a 300 wm.

If hunting in a locality where the shots are more than 300 yards, like some desert areas of Namibia and some open areas of RSA, then I would prefer the .300 win mag. Otherwise I would prefer the 30-06.

Here's a nice model 70 30-06 all ready to go:

PHuntr, Rich Elliot, ZimBab, DC3, B45, Allen Day, TBG & TerryR thank you all so very much for your very honest & sound judgement!

Bayou - Good advice - don't make your life complicated here - there's only one answer, vanilla-flavored, boring, accurate, easy recoiling, find everywhere, kills stuff dead - .30/06 SPRG w/180 grain Nosler's - Eland, Kudu, Gemsbok, Wildebeast, Zebra, Blesbok, Springbok, Impala, Duiker's, Warthoggies - they drop in their socks, run a bit, lope-a-long-way & then expire!

Next to the original - one & only, just-right-for-Africa caliber - the .375 H&H it is THE cartridge to choose for Africa & the remianer of the world, a standard!

Happy hunting in Africa!

Gerry

I have a good friend who has 18 African safaris under his belt. He has used only a .30-06 and a 375H&H. I believe he has taken every specie available.

I would be perfectly happy with either one...I shoot a 30-06 with 180 gr. Noslers and a 300 H&H with 200 gr. Noslers...My son uses the 300 Win Mag and loves it, I have used it also and its a dandy...

I would be hard pressed to pick one over the other...I have shot about everything in Africa up to and encluding Buffalo with the 06 and I have seen the 300 H&H used on Buffalo and they both worked great on everything, but both killed the buffalo a little slow IMO. I have seen Lion and Eland shot with the 30-06 and 300 H&H and they both did them in quickly.

I have a great respect for both calibers....

The 06 is fine for a plains game only safari. You will have to pass up some marginal angles on eland wildebeast ect. If you are doing dangerous game also just take a .375 unless you want to have the wrong rifle at the right time when something big steps out. I was hunting sable when I shot my lion and as many can attest opportunity knocks quickly in africa.

Allen Day gave you awfully good advice, especially since you haven't used either one.
Personally, I'd take an old .300 H&H with 220 grain bullets, but that's just my opinion and doesn't fit the popular molds of thought.

I haven't used either one?

Reread my post. I've taken more African plainsgame with the .300 Win. Mag. than I have anything else -- some 75 species so far, including lion, leopard, and Cape buffalo.

As far as the .30-06 goes, I haven't used it in African yet, but I started out hunting with it here in Oregon for mule deer, elk, and blacktails as a teenager in the 1970s. It's virtues and shortcomings are not lost on me, either.

AD

quote:

Originally posted by allen day:
I haven't used either one?

Reread my post. I've taken more African plainsgame with the .300 Win. Mag. than I have anything else -- some 75 species so far, including lion, leopard, and Cape buffalo.

As far as the .30-06 goes, I haven't used it in African yet, but I started out hunting with it here in Oregon for mule deer, elk, and blacktails as a teenager in the 1970s. It's virtues and shortcomings are not lost on me, either.

AD

My we are touchy this morning. My reply was to the original poster of the thread.
I thought I paid a compliment to your post. I guess you didn't read my post very close. I am well aware of your love for the .300 Win Mag and in no way said you hadn't used one!
Sorry I pissed in your ceral this morning.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AfricanHunter:
Allen Day gave you awfully good advice, especially since you haven't used either one.

I know english is my second language but it sure reads like Allen hadn't used either one to me, which is of course, the exact opposite of what he says.

My vote goes to the 300, even though I know the 06 is good enough. Craig Boddington relates a story where he was forced to pass up what would have been the greatest kudu in his life because the 06 he was carrying was not enough for the shot angle offered. Had he been carrying a more powerful caliber he claims, he might have taken the shot. While I think he was alluding to the 375 and not a 300, the 300s do give you an edge, an edge that might be the difference between the trophy of a lifetime and a missed opportunity. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:

My vote goes to the 300, even though I know the 06 is good enough.

jorge

Whew! I was a afraid you were going to recommend a weatherby.

oops, well notice I said just "300" in my reply. I would have thought that THE premier 300 (as in Weatherby) was implied. jorge

My opinion, get a 338 Win.
The recoil is about the same as a 300 win.

Wimpie

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
oops, well notice I said just "300" in my reply. I would have thought that THE premier 300 (as in Weatherby) was implied. jorge

naaa, 500 grains I'm certain he meant a 300 RUM !

A few years back I hunted Zim with Rosslyn Safaris owned by Peter Johnstone. The 30/06 was his favorite and he was over 60 lions shot with it. He is a great believer in heavy for weight bullets. For Africa use 180 at least and prefer 200 grains. Peter felt if you need more than an 06 then you need a 375!

The truth is, there are a whole lot of cartridges that'll work well on plainsgame. One of my friends from Virginia went on an extensive plainsgame safari and took a .338 Win. His hunting partner went on the same safari and took a .270 Win. Both of these guys hunted out of the same camp, hunted the same species, and each had his own PH. According to my friend, it was pretty had to tell who was using what based upon the reaction of the animals. With good shot placement, everything went down very quickly to both .338 bullets and .270 bullets. He told me there just wasn't that much meaningful difference. Personally, I'd still rather pack a .338, but that's what he told me, and I don't doubt his word.

Bullets from most reasonable cartridges simply don't bounce off big game animals. I grew up hearing about iron-plated elk, but have found that shot selection, bullet-placement problems and bullet construction problems were usually at the root of the reported failures. I suspect that's usually the problem in Africa as well.

The biggest single problem I've had in Africa in terms of bringing animals down quickly has been when I've missed.........

AD

Since it may never come up it may not be a consideration but, in some jurisdictions (like France) the 30-06 is a "controlled" caliber and not available over the counter without special authorization whereas the 300 WinMag is freely available. I've never made a study of the availability of the calibers for over the counter ammo sales but in Europe at least I would bet that 300 WinMag is more widely available in all jurisdictions.

I have two loaner rifles in RSA where our camps are. One is the 375HH which is well known and the capabilities of the cartrige well respected.

The other is a 30?06 which has taken more game for myself and my clinets then all the other guns I have combined. As stated earlier the limiting factor with the 30.06 may be some of the awkward angles but that is about it. The animals (plains game) to be very careful with would be Eland, as stated earlier, Blue wildebeast, zebra, and gemsbok. The Zebra should be easy with the built in target over the heart. The Blue wildebeast is considered the toughest animal in the bush by the Meat hunters assoc. and the gemsbok are just plain tough and incredibly dangerous when wounded.

All but the really big stuff have been taken with my 30/06 and 165 grain partitions, Aframes, or interbonds. We have never lost a single animal with those combinations. The 300 mage will stretch further and perform better with a heavier bullet. I would choose the one you shoot better and feel better packing around the bush all day.

Another vote for the 300 Win Mag.

By Rich Elliott,

"Way back when....I used a .300 Weatherby Magnum on my first 2 safaris. 26" barrel, close to 10 lbs, awkward stock, and sharp chop to the jaw each shot. I was shooting a lot of game on each safari back then. My right eyebrow still looks like the seam in a football. My third safari I took a .30-06 Remington 700 Classic I had used in the States for elk, deer bear, etc. It weighs 8 lbs total, has a handy 22" barrel, and a stock that is comfortable to shoot. I found it to be most effective on everything from duiker to eland. All with a 180 Nosler handload @ 2,725 fps. Many subsequent safaris proved the worth of that combination. Hippo (220 grain Hornady solids), Mt. Nyala, numerous common plains game species, dozens of warthogs, plus lion, and leopard were all collected with that rifle. It still shoots into 1" @100 yards when I do my part.
I have owned several .300 Win. Mags, all properly stocked and scoped weighing under 9 lbs with 24" barrels but that old .30-06 is still the one I put in the case when I'm going on safari. Need to get a new #4457. The last one I got (1980) is getting a bit hard to read."

Hard to argue with that testimony Rich!

I haven't killed with either caliber yet, but I've shot and owned rifles in both. both can get good accuracy. trajectory is very similar between the both, but the win mag will shoot heavier bullets flatter/faster. I honestly can barely feel the difference in recoil between both calibers, so I would go with the 300 win mag

i have shot an eland with 30,06 one shot but i recon 300 ,is the best,even the animal wounded leaves a big blood trial

The 30-06 was meant to hunt people and the 300WM was meant to hunt game animals.Stop the nonsense and move one.

I love my 30-06!! I will hunt any plains game with it, but if I hunt eland and I don't get it at a suitable angle to take a shot I have the luxury to go back next week end or next month to try again.

If I had to pay top dollar for a 7-10 day safari in which time I may not get the perfect angle due to time constraints I will most definitely go for the 300WM if that is the only other choice.

I will for the above mentioned reason rather go for something in the .338 or .375 range of calibers if Blue wildebeest and Eland is on the list.

You could flick a coin on that choice.
ozhunter

My plainsgame "battery" (I don't own a DGR) was a .30-06 loaded with 165 gr. Federal Premium or 180 gr. Remington and a .338 Win. Mag. loaded with 230 gr. Fail Safes.

Didn't notice much difference between the 165 gr. and 180 gr. performance wise.

Fail Safes were no better than solids out of the .338 Win. Mag.

Used the 06 for impala / reedbuck / warthogs and smaller and the .338 for anything larger like zebra / wildebeest / sable / kudu / eland

My first PH said the 06 was "perfect" for anything except eland. His partner said nothing less than a .375 should be used for eland.

My second PH said it basically didn't matter as long as you placed the first shot properly but he used a .375 as a backup for buffalo hunts.

I would take a 30-06 with Federal High Energy 180gr Trophy bonded bear claw bullets. This factory round has been chronoed in the 2,900fps range, which is pretty close to 300 WM velocities and that bullet should retain 90 to 95% of its weight.

I have used a .280 (little bro' to the '06) and a .300 WM. I am convinced of two things on plains game -

1. Shot placement is everything. My son killed a nice kudu with his .243 because he hit the heart and lungs. My daughter took a zebra with a .300 WM with a lung shot. Shot whatever you pick "well". Hit what you aim at.

2. I switched to the .300 wm vs. the .280 because the 180 gr bullet vs. the 150gr bullet seems to hit harder, meaning that I have had several DRT shots (Dead Right There). For Africa plains game excluding eland, I will shoot the .300 WM everytime.

Have fun...