https://www.dailymaverick.co.z...tional/#.WzTRTdJKjIV



Driving nails into the coffin of Safari Club International


By Judy Malone• 28 June 2018


Trophy hunting is not about science, rights or traditions, or about personal choices. It is about right and wrong, good and evil. The self-evident truth is that killing for pleasure and profit is morally wrong.

People around the world are following the search for Skye, the pride male lion who disappeared after a 7 June hunt. There was no such mystery after the killing of Cecil – three years ago next week – in Zimbabwe. We knew the details and identities of those involved immediately, and international headlines appeared within 24 hours. But the hunt industry has since closed ranks, and as journalists beat the bush for information, those who have the answers are withholding them.



The selling of animals to globe-trotting trophy hunters has long been controversial. But Cecil was a turning point, igniting unprecedented outrage.

His killers exposed trophy hunting as the merciless business it has always been and which is now a threat to our planet’s rapidly disappearing wildlife.

Afterwards the hunt industry sought absolution with extravagant conservation claims, including providing an anti-poaching presence, which were not, however, supported by evidence.

These claims began in earnest with a growing need to buy public acceptance. For the first time, professional hunters and their clients were and continue to be under scrutiny. The reality is that wildlife watching has the lion’s share of total tourism revenue in Africa and everywhere else. So it is not only wildlife populations threatened by the killing of the biggest and best, but tourist numbers as well. Many are repelled and angered by the grisly details of hunts circulating in mainstream and social media.

It has been reported that Skye was killed by a Kentucky millionaire. We can guess his identity, but in a way it doesn’t matter. He is a Safari Club International member, and one of a subculture of elites who enjoy killing large numbers of rare big “game” animals.

In one decade, American trophy hunters alone killed 5,552 African lions. From 2005 to 2014, they brought home more than 1.2 million trophies of more than 1,200 different kinds of animals. They compete in killing the most animals for the most rewards, and are avid collectors of victim body parts.

They stage gala award events to celebrate and congratulate. It’s all tax-exemptible guts and glory, and without it does anyone imagine they would be interested in protecting wildlife? If they sincerely want to save species, let them offer the dollars without demanding a life in exchange.

US journalist, author, and prominent Republican Matthew Scully has spent considerable time watching and writing about the SCI, dispelling any idea of it as an environmentally-friendly, conservation-minded organisation. They are coldhearted killers, he tells us, and “respect” means only the courtesy of leaving enough behind for the next hunter. Surveying the stacks of marketing brochures filled with the “pornography of bloodlust” and price lists, he writes:

“You don’t have to be the fainthearted type to take in a scene like Safari Club and feel that something has gone horribly wrong, something involving our own human dignity every bit as much as the animals’.”

Still SCI manages, through intense lobbying and funding, to convince governments everywhere to facilitate what its members do. But it seems lawmakers and even mainstream media are not yet recognising the change in public attitudes towards all nonhuman animals.

We now know much more about the high intelligence and complex social behaviours of lives that parallel our own. Trophy hunting is not about science, rights or traditions, or about personal choices. It is about right and wrong, good and evil. The self-evident truth is that killing for pleasure and profit is morally wrong. It is a crime against nature and opposition across North America is rapidly becoming political.

This week the LA Times editorial read:

“The state of California can’t stop a misguided African government from allowing the hunting of endangered animals in its country. Nor can it stop the US government from permitting the importation of these trophies. But it can discourage such hunting by barring hunters from bringing new trophies to California and keeping them in their homes or elsewhere. This bill would mean no new heads mounted on walls should it be approved.”

In a more direct response to the June hunt, US conservation and welfare groups are now urging the Trump administration to immediately deny import permits for all lion trophies taken near Kruger National Park in the Umbabat Reserve.

Safari Club types largely come from the west; we know them well. Canada is the leading exporter of trophies to the US, ahead of South Africa. We know they are not interested in conserving wildlife except to protect their game. They assuredly do not acknowledge that iconic species are now struggling for survival with intense human-caused pressures on habitat and range movement. But there is no time to wait while we work out our differences. If future generations are ever to live in the same world as wild lions, elephants, giraffes – and all targeted victims the world over – these people must be stopped. Ethics-based approaches to wildlife conservation and co-existence issues must be and are being found.

Tourists Against Trophy Hunting (TATH) is an international lobbying coalition. We are conservationists, journalists, photographers, activists, tourism operators, and tourists, and through member connections reach a global audience in the millions.

We oppose trophy hunting everywhere. One year ago we challenged hunts surrounding Kruger National Park in an Open Letter published in South African media. We now challenge it again. It is appalling that wildlife in a protected park continues to be traumatised by hunting concessions along its boundaries.

The dropping of fences ostensibly to improve both wildlife-watching and offer more room to roam was in reality a cold calculation. SCI hunters in their forums refer glibly to Kruger as the “factory”, reliably turning out their trophies.

Sabi Sands is one model of how to shut these killers out. Umbabat, Timbavati and the other area “game” reserves callously use the fences to profit from both sides. In spite of ongoing challenges to these opportunistic hunts, we see a government that is unresponsive and seemingly indifferent to the fate of African wildlife.

A keynote speaker at the UN World Tourism Organisation recently said it is time for ecotourists to find their voice. We are finding our vice, and our contempt for this pillaging of the world’s wildlife is being heard. TATH joins the urgent call for details and names surrounding the June hunt. We want this killing, along with the murder of Cecil and Xanda and all of the unnamed elephants and lions, bears and wolves, to become another nail in the coffin of Safari Club International. DM

Judy Malone writes on behalf of Tourists Against Trophy Hunting.

I saw this myself this morning. I couldn't help but notice that she solicited donations after the end of the article.

She is a hater,liar and frauder.

Someone should tell this utterly stupid idiot that if there was no profit it she would never eat meat or drink milk.

Or wear anything from leather.

What is wrong with these poisonous, stupid, women so called reporters.

One of the many talentless attention whores.I guess she figures if she writes something like this, someone will let her play.
Has she ever thought of buying a leather coat and giving animals a value of importance?

What all these emotion-driven critics fail to understand, or don't want to understand, is that all of these animals are going to die anyway. Some of them soon, and some of them slowly and painfully. And it's the ones that are on their last legs that trophy hunters
take, those that are past their prime .. not the young females that are going to perpetuate the species. Thus if you are going to put this in human terms, it's not "murder", it's "euthanasia", a concept that most of these same liberals embrace.

Poachers, on the other hand, kill indiscriminately and contribute nothing to conservation. In fact they are a drain in the sense that conservation dollars have to be siphoned off to combat them. That money would be better spent on habitat improvement.

And the critics do nothing much at all to help other than create a lot of hot air. I bet one hunter spends more dollars in Africa in a year than 100 critics in their lifetimes. What the critics could do to help would be to stop breeding ... fewer people on earth is the biggest conservation lever of all. And while they are at it, quit with the cats and dogs. Domestic animals are a scourge when it comes to wildlife. And further, shut down the newspapers and magazines. That just kills trees and makes CO2 and garbage ...

The invasion of the Mental Midget has begun. The only evil I see is the motivation for this wench is money. It's the same old "wet, shivering, shaking, muddy puppy dog and kitty cat scam. For only $19 per month we'll send you a tote bag, pink vagina Tee shirt and our magazine to save animals."

ALL BS from her those of here on the ground in Africa know where the $$ come from that makes things run. Sadly the only real $$$ I see in the field being spent in any major way is by the WWF. Where is SCI and DSC in Africa make a show of support don't hide or stick your heads in the sand! With over 400 million in combined revenues why are they not speaking out or investing in Africa??

What you all are failing to grasp is that they out number us by about 100-1.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
What you all are failing to grasp is that they out number us by about 100-1.

Jeff

And there in lies the real problem!

quote:

Originally posted by SafariSean:
ALL BS from her those of here on the ground in Africa know where the $$ come from that makes things run. Sadly the only real $$$ I see in the field being spent in any major way is by the WWF. Where is SCI and DSC in Africa make a show of support don't hide or stick your heads in the sand! With over 400 million in combined revenues why are they not speaking out or investing in Africa??

I don't know where the revenue numbers came from. I have seen the financials. The revenues are not remotely close to that. As I recall, not even 10% of that.


They both do some things in Africa. Because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't happening. The SCI Foundation is trying to get me to give them a large (for me) donation. They sent me an annual report for the 2015-2016 year. The report shows that they have spent $60 million funding 80 conservation projects in 27 countries since 2000. The total donations received was slightly less than $1.5 million which is almost DOUBLE what the Foundation has received in recent years. On the other hand, SCI's revenues for the year ended 6/30/16 list revenues on the audited financials totaling $22.6 million . Combined, both SCI entities have about $24 million of revenue.

It is pretty clear that SCI & DSC come no where near $400 million in revenues.

I think we all need to realize that the best efforts of both organizations are spent on lobbying, monitoring legislation & litigation and fighting court battles on our behalf. Conservation projects are nice. However, they do not keep us hunting.

Thank you Larry. An absolutely brilliant assessment of the too commonly heard rant about SCI not doing anything in Africa and the exorbitant over estimates of SCI financial revenues. Well Done!

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
Thank you Larry. An absolutely brilliant assessment of the too commonly heard rant about SCI not doing anything in Africa and the exorbitant over estimates of SCI financial revenues. Well Done!

Even a blind hog gets a root every now and then.

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
Thank you Larry. An absolutely brilliant assessment of the too commonly heard rant about SCI not doing anything in Africa and the exorbitant over estimates of SCI financial revenues. Well Done!

It would help dispel notions of lack of involvement if the public were to know exactly where and in what measure these SCI contributions have been made in Africa instead of "lurking in the shadows".

If what I received was in a form where I could post a link, I would do so. What I received was in an e mail. Not sure how I would post it.

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
Thank you Larry. An absolutely brilliant assessment of the too commonly heard rant about SCI not doing anything in Africa and the exorbitant over estimates of SCI financial revenues. Well Done!

It would help dispel notions of lack of involvement if the public were to know exactly where and in what measure these SCI contributions have been made in Africa instead of "lurking in the shadows".

Every time we have asked for these details, we kept getting told that everything is publicly available.

But we could never find it.

I'd love to see SCI and others eliminate these silly awards programs....nothing screams entitled "trophy" hunters like the 3rd diamond level platinum award for the 3 - horned Mt. Everest Snow Goat.

I just think it gives a really bad perception to the average non-hunter IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
I'd love to see SCI and others eliminate these silly awards programs....nothing screams entitled "trophy" hunters like the 3rd diamond level platinum award for the 3 - horned Mt. Everest Snow Goat.

I just think it gives a really bad perception to the average non-hunter IMO.

For the love of God fellas, the non-hunters and antis don't give a rats ass. The antis have successfully framed the argument as "KILLING ANIMALS". All the ethics arguments among ourselves and discussion of SCI's awards are nuances, that although they may be important to us as hunters, rarely reach the average non-hunter's circle of awareness. To turn a phrase back on itself, we are playing chess while they play checkers. No, I didn't mean that the other way around. They are beating the crap out of us with the very simple appeal of framing us as killers of cute Disney animals. How we do it isn't part of the "common knowledge" base of the masses simply because the antis, whose ilk are in control of the mass media and social media outlets, don't allow for these nuances to enter the discussion. Try to bring it up and watch how you get shouted down! Very similar to members of certain political parties being shouted out of a restaurant these days by supporters of the other political party. Logic, truth, common sense, and more importantly, civility, have all been replaced with Mob Mentality. It's a simple message and appealing to the masses. Once the masses get ahold of the message and begin chanting and shouting, it's almost impossible to stop.

Sure, once you get the "average non-hunter" into a one on one conversation, you have a descent chance of swaying their opinion to our side, as is the case anytime logic and truth are on your side of the argument. But one on one discussions are not enough to turn back the title wave of public opinion formed by the actions of the mob.

Case in point: The wife and I were leaving in a couple of days for our first safari several years back. We were having dinner in a nice steak restaurant and ran into a couple she knew from our kids' school. When we told them we were going on safari, they both recoiled in disgust. Later in the evening, I walked past them on the way to the restroom and the lady looked up at me, gave me a thumbs down, and said "Boooo. Hunting". Then she cut another piece of steak and ate it.

How do we counter that level of denial? How do we counter the level of brainwashing that would allow an "intelligent" person to condemn an activity that leads to the exact activity they are engaged in at the moment they are proclaiming their condemnation? How does that ship get turned around? How do we wake up the masses to the hypocrisy?

I don't know the answer. I don't know that there is an answer. But one on one discussions aren't doing it anymore than bailing out water with buckets would have saved the Titanic, even if every person on board had a bucket. In other words, we are now fighting a battle that has more momentum than the sum of it's individual parts. In the mean time, I do know that organizations like SCI and DSC, with whatever faults they may have, are engaged in lobbying and litigation to try and protect our rights from those that want to take them away. Some here just refuse to see these organizations for what they are. They are not primarily "boots on the ground" funders of specific conservation programs on the African continent. They are organizations centered on legislative affairs. Until an effective answer is found to counter the crazies, I'll continue to support the organizations that fight the legal battles to maintain our rights, even if I have to hold my nose at some of the antics they participate in ... like the awards program.

Non-hunters are not the same thing as Anti-hunters. Moreover there are an infinite variety of Non-hunters, many if not most are open to persuasion by us or by the antis.

Hunters are also not the same. There are all kinds of "hunters" that I do not support. One of those groups I don't support is those hunters involved in the awards programs Aaron mentioned.

Everyone of us is judged by the company we keep.

Don't give up.I believe if you tell one person they will tell another and so on...and soon enough thousands will be informed of the good that hunters do.Somewhere sometime someone who does not have an evil agenda towards hunters will here our side of the story.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
I'd love to see SCI and others eliminate these silly awards programs....nothing screams entitled "trophy" hunters like the 3rd diamond level platinum award for the 3 - horned Mt. Everest Snow Goat.

I just think it gives a really bad perception to the average non-hunter IMO.

For the love of God fellas, the non-hunters and antis don't give a rats ass. The antis have successfully framed the argument as "KILLING ANIMALS". All the ethics arguments among ourselves and discussion of SCI's awards are nuances, that although they may be important to us as hunters, rarely reach the average non-hunter's circle of awareness. To turn a phrase back on itself, we are playing chess while they play checkers. No, I didn't mean that the other way around. They are beating the crap out of us with the very simple appeal of framing us as killers of cute Disney animals. How we do it isn't part of the "common knowledge" base of the masses simply because the antis, whose ilk are in control of the mass media and social media outlets, don't allow for these nuances to enter the discussion. Try to bring it up and watch how you get shouted down! Very similar to members of certain political parties being shouted out of a restaurant these days by supporters of the other political party. Logic, truth, common sense, and more importantly, civility, have all been replaced with Mob Mentality. It's a simple message and appealing to the masses. Once the masses get ahold of the message and begin chanting and shouting, it's almost impossible to stop.

Sure, once you get the "average non-hunter" into a one on one conversation, you have a descent chance of swaying their opinion to our side, as is the case anytime logic and truth are on your side of the argument. But one on one discussions are not enough to turn back the title wave of public opinion formed by the actions of the mob.

Case in point: The wife and I were leaving in a couple of days for our first safari several years back. We were having dinner in a nice steak restaurant and ran into a couple she knew from our kids' school. When we told them we were going on safari, they both recoiled in disgust. Later in the evening, I walked past them on the way to the restroom and the lady looked up at me, gave me a thumbs down, and said "Boooo. Hunting". Then she cut another piece of steak and ate it.

How do we counter that level of denial? How do we counter the level of brainwashing that would allow an "intelligent" person to condemn an activity that leads to the exact activity they are engaged in at the moment they are proclaiming their condemnation? How does that ship get turned around? How do we wake up the masses to the hypocrisy?

I don't know the answer. I don't know that there is an answer. But one on one discussions aren't doing it anymore than bailing out water with buckets would have saved the Titanic, even if every person on board had a bucket. In other words, we are now fighting a battle that has more momentum than the sum of it's individual parts. In the mean time, I do know that organizations like SCI and DSC, with whatever faults they may have, are engaged in lobbying and litigation to try and protect our rights from those that want to take them away. Some here just refuse to see these organizations for what they are. They are not primarily "boots on the ground" funders of specific conservation programs on the African continent. They are organizations centered on legislative affairs. Until an effective answer is found to counter the crazies, I'll continue to support the organizations that fight the legal battles to maintain our rights, even if I have to hold my nose at some of the antics they participate in ... like the awards program.

Todd...obviously I don't claim my point to be the "answer" to the problem. I just believe we could do / change some things to portray a cleaner image, that's all. Non-hunters are the target audience...they are the masses and they will ultimately have the largest vote by far. The word "trophy" has been turned into a four letter word by the opposition...awards programs just scream that a bit more loudly IMO.

https://huntforever.org/2018/0...sies-and-falsehoods/



MEDIA ATTACK ON SCI FULL OF FANTASIES AND FALSEHOODS
JUNE 29, 2018 SCI


Safari Club International and hunters fight criminal poaching of wildlife resources. Anti-hunters do not.
Anti-hunters enable criminal poaching. By being aware of the problem and doing nothing about it, antis are responsible for the criminal slaughter of animals they falsely profess they want to save.

When it comes to saving wildlife in wild places, humans are either part of the problem or part of the solution. Anti-hunters are the problem. SCI and hunters are the solution.
Instead of putting their money where their mouth is and joining the fight against criminal wildlife poaching or pouring millions of dollars into meaningful conservation which actually helps save wildlife, anti-hunting elements within the eco-tourism industry attack SCI and hunting as they scurry to manufacture fake news surrounding a recent lion hunt in Africa.
Filled with fantasies and falsehoods, an article by Judy Malone published recently in the e-newspaper Daily Maverick lays bare efforts by the eco-colonialists within the eco-tourism industry to attack hunting, proclaiming it adversely affects the tourism that fills their coffers with cash.
Entitled “Driving nails into the coffin of Safari Club International,” the article attempts to justify its attack merely by terming hunting “morally wrong.”
Then, by focusing on reports of a recent lion hunt in Africa, the article leads to what obviously was the main reason for writing it in the first place – to further eco-tourism at the expense of hunting. It’s greed, pure and simple.
“The reality is that wildlife watching has the lion’s share of total tourism revenue in Africa and everywhere else,” the article stated. “So it is not only wildlife populations threatened by the killing of the biggest and best, but tourist numbers as well. Many are repelled and angered by the grisly details of hunts circulating in mainstream and social media.”

Yes, it is the perceived loss of revenue that drives this attack – an attack steeped in the parlance of traditional anti-hunting rhetoric. Bluntly, they don’t like hunting because they think it gets in the way of their making more money. Why are they not using their money to finance anti-poaching efforts and true conservation projects?

In the attack on SCI, the author assumes that the lion taken on a recent hunt is a particular male with a name – Skye. This assumption also has been echoed by mainline anti-hunting groups like Center for Biological Diversity, Humane Society of the United State and Humane Society International. Reports from Umbabat Private Nature Reserve (UPNR) indicate that this is simply not true.
The very premise of CBD, HSUS, HIS and the Daily Maverick article is false. According to the Umbabat Private Nature Reserve (UPNR), the lion allegedly taken was not known as “Skye,” was not “the leader of the well-known western lion pride,’ and was not “declared a “High Value Pride Male.” This lion, as documented by the June 12, 2018 statement from the UPNR, was “well past his prime – as per the hunting protocol,” “was not a pride lion,” “had worn down and broken teeth, a protruding spine (all signs of advanced age).”
Information about the specifics of the hunt are still coming in, which is far from surprising, considering that the hunt occurred fewer than 30 days ago. CBD, HSUS, HSI and TATH wish to capitalize on the typical difficulties of obtaining information quickly about hunts in Africa and would like to fill the information vacuum with unsubstantiated allegations, innuendos and a media frenzy similar to the one that erroneously accused a U.S. hunter of illegally taking a now well-known lion in Zimbabwe. Those false accusations and the turmoil that followed, through the damage done to sustainable use-hunting, have already done great harm to African wildlife conservation.
SCI and SCI Foundation, working with our members and chapter network, as well as our partners in other like-minded groups, have invested tens of millions of dollars into anti-poaching and conservation efforts around the world. Our unwavering dedication to protecting wildlife and habitat also extends into many levels of support for local people, expanding their economic opportunities.
Tragically, while the anti-hunters spend their time and money attacking hunting, criminal poachers are devastating entire wildlife populations. SCI and SCI Foundation have put planes in the air, trucks on the road and boots on the ground to stem the tide of the all-out assault on natural resources by criminal poachers. Anti-hunters have done none of this. They talk their talk. We walk our walk.
Working with universities, researchers and local experts, SCI and SCI Foundation empower those most negatively affected by poaching by providing viable alternatives for them to feed their families and improve their communities. Hunting works far beyond the hunt itself.
Compare the humanitarian and conservation successes of hunters with the political and economic greed of the organization represented by the author of the article in the Daily Maverick. About the author, the article states: “Judy Malone writes on behalf of Tourists Against Trophy Hunting.”
In the article, TATH is described: “Tourists Against Trophy Hunting (TATH) is an international lobbying coalition. We are conservationists, journalists, photographers, activists, tourism operators, and tourists, and through member connections reach a global audience in the millions.”
So, what we have here is a political lobbying operation that includes tourism operators wanting to rack-up profits. They are not actively fighting criminal poachers. SCI and hunters are.
As for driving any nails into the coffin of SCI, we are reminded of a quote by author Mark Twain after rumors of his death circulated while he was still alive: “The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated,” he quipped.
So, too, are the fantasies of anti-hunting fake news items “exaggerated” that suggest SCI, as well as hunting, are dead. Dream on.

Methinks the reports of SCI's death have been slightly exaggerated.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
Thank you Larry. An absolutely brilliant assessment of the too commonly heard rant about SCI not doing anything in Africa and the exorbitant over estimates of SCI financial revenues. Well Done!

It would help dispel notions of lack of involvement if the public were to know exactly where and in what measure these SCI contributions have been made in Africa instead of "lurking in the shadows".

Every time we have asked for these details, we kept getting told that everything is publicly available.

But we could never find it.

I will e mail you what I was sent Saeed. I will also e mail links to their financial statements.

It might take me a couple of days. I am working at my ranch. I have my phone and horrendous satellite WiFi.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
I'd love to see SCI and others eliminate these silly awards programs....nothing screams entitled "trophy" hunters like the 3rd diamond level platinum award for the 3 - horned Mt. Everest Snow Goat.

I just think it gives a really bad perception to the average non-hunter IMO.

For the love of God fellas, the non-hunters and antis don't give a rats ass. The antis have successfully framed the argument as "KILLING ANIMALS". All the ethics arguments among ourselves and discussion of SCI's awards are nuances, that although they may be important to us as hunters, rarely reach the average non-hunter's circle of awareness. To turn a phrase back on itself, we are playing chess while they play checkers. No, I didn't mean that the other way around. They are beating the crap out of us with the very simple appeal of framing us as killers of cute Disney animals. How we do it isn't part of the "common knowledge" base of the masses simply because the antis, whose ilk are in control of the mass media and social media outlets, don't allow for these nuances to enter the discussion. Try to bring it up and watch how you get shouted down! Very similar to members of certain political parties being shouted out of a restaurant these days by supporters of the other political party. Logic, truth, common sense, and more importantly, civility, have all been replaced with Mob Mentality. It's a simple message and appealing to the masses. Once the masses get ahold of the message and begin chanting and shouting, it's almost impossible to stop.

Sure, once you get the "average non-hunter" into a one on one conversation, you have a descent chance of swaying their opinion to our side, as is the case anytime logic and truth are on your side of the argument. But one on one discussions are not enough to turn back the title wave of public opinion formed by the actions of the mob.

Case in point: The wife and I were leaving in a couple of days for our first safari several years back. We were having dinner in a nice steak restaurant and ran into a couple she knew from our kids' school. When we told them we were going on safari, they both recoiled in disgust. Later in the evening, I walked past them on the way to the restroom and the lady looked up at me, gave me a thumbs down, and said "Boooo. Hunting". Then she cut another piece of steak and ate it.

How do we counter that level of denial? How do we counter the level of brainwashing that would allow an "intelligent" person to condemn an activity that leads to the exact activity they are engaged in at the moment they are proclaiming their condemnation? How does that ship get turned around? How do we wake up the masses to the hypocrisy?

I don't know the answer. I don't know that there is an answer. But one on one discussions aren't doing it anymore than bailing out water with buckets would have saved the Titanic, even if every person on board had a bucket. In other words, we are now fighting a battle that has more momentum than the sum of it's individual parts. In the mean time, I do know that organizations like SCI and DSC, with whatever faults they may have, are engaged in lobbying and litigation to try and protect our rights from those that want to take them away. Some here just refuse to see these organizations for what they are. They are not primarily "boots on the ground" funders of specific conservation programs on the African continent. They are organizations centered on legislative affairs. Until an effective answer is found to counter the crazies, I'll continue to support the organizations that fight the legal battles to maintain our rights, even if I have to hold my nose at some of the antics they participate in ... like the awards program.

Todd:

I agree with almost everything you said . I disagree about the awards. I have seen that used against us over and over.

I wholeheartedly agree with the legislative affairs comments. It boggles my mind that so many do not Comprehend that issue.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
I'd love to see SCI and others eliminate these silly awards programs....nothing screams entitled "trophy" hunters like the 3rd diamond level platinum award for the 3 - horned Mt. Everest Snow Goat.

I just think it gives a really bad perception to the average non-hunter IMO.

For the love of God fellas, the non-hunters and antis don't give a rats ass. The antis have successfully framed the argument as "KILLING ANIMALS". All the ethics arguments among ourselves and discussion of SCI's awards are nuances, that although they may be important to us as hunters, rarely reach the average non-hunter's circle of awareness. To turn a phrase back on itself, we are playing chess while they play checkers. No, I didn't mean that the other way around. They are beating the crap out of us with the very simple appeal of framing us as killers of cute Disney animals. How we do it isn't part of the "common knowledge" base of the masses simply because the antis, whose ilk are in control of the mass media and social media outlets, don't allow for these nuances to enter the discussion. Try to bring it up and watch how you get shouted down! Very similar to members of certain political parties being shouted out of a restaurant these days by supporters of the other political party. Logic, truth, common sense, and more importantly, civility, have all been replaced with Mob Mentality. It's a simple message and appealing to the masses. Once the masses get ahold of the message and begin chanting and shouting, it's almost impossible to stop.

Sure, once you get the "average non-hunter" into a one on one conversation, you have a descent chance of swaying their opinion to our side, as is the case anytime logic and truth are on your side of the argument. But one on one discussions are not enough to turn back the title wave of public opinion formed by the actions of the mob.

Case in point: The wife and I were leaving in a couple of days for our first safari several years back. We were having dinner in a nice steak restaurant and ran into a couple she knew from our kids' school. When we told them we were going on safari, they both recoiled in disgust. Later in the evening, I walked past them on the way to the restroom and the lady looked up at me, gave me a thumbs down, and said "Boooo. Hunting". Then she cut another piece of steak and ate it.

How do we counter that level of denial? How do we counter the level of brainwashing that would allow an "intelligent" person to condemn an activity that leads to the exact activity they are engaged in at the moment they are proclaiming their condemnation? How does that ship get turned around? How do we wake up the masses to the hypocrisy?

I don't know the answer. I don't know that there is an answer. But one on one discussions aren't doing it anymore than bailing out water with buckets would have saved the Titanic, even if every person on board had a bucket. In other words, we are now fighting a battle that has more momentum than the sum of it's individual parts. In the mean time, I do know that organizations like SCI and DSC, with whatever faults they may have, are engaged in lobbying and litigation to try and protect our rights from those that want to take them away. Some here just refuse to see these organizations for what they are. They are not primarily "boots on the ground" funders of specific conservation programs on the African continent. They are organizations centered on legislative affairs. Until an effective answer is found to counter the crazies, I'll continue to support the organizations that fight the legal battles to maintain our rights, even if I have to hold my nose at some of the antics they participate in ... like the awards program.

Todd...obviously I don't claim my point to be the "answer" to the problem. I just believe we could do / change some things to portray a cleaner image, that's all. Non-hunters are the target audience...they are the masses and they will ultimately have the largest vote by far. The word "trophy" has been turned into a four letter word by the opposition...awards programs just scream that a bit more loudly IMO.

We can argue till the cows come home.

The fact is SCI has turned hunting into a competition, which is abhorant to most hunters.

It got to the stage that all it takes is money to get into the top of SCI lists of "mine is bigger than yours"!

How childish can one get?

And why is SCI keeping what they do in Africa a secret?

While they glorify every selfish Tom, Dick and Harry with their utterly silly awards?

A while back we had two gents from SCI who came here huffing and buffing because they did not like what some of us were posting about SCI.

I thought we might be on the right track that at long last they might listen to actual hunters instead of the ME ME ME crowd they are so in love with.

But that did not happen.

They both disappeared into oblivion, and SCI is just as we have always thought of.

An organization for awarding stupid medals to clueless, selfish idiots who have no idea what hunting actually is!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
I'd love to see SCI and others eliminate these silly awards programs....nothing screams entitled "trophy" hunters like the 3rd diamond level platinum award for the 3 - horned Mt. Everest Snow Goat.

I just think it gives a really bad perception to the average non-hunter IMO.

For the love of God fellas, the non-hunters and antis don't give a rats ass. The antis have successfully framed the argument as "KILLING ANIMALS". All the ethics arguments among ourselves and discussion of SCI's awards are nuances, that although they may be important to us as hunters, rarely reach the average non-hunter's circle of awareness. To turn a phrase back on itself, we are playing chess while they play checkers. No, I didn't mean that the other way around. They are beating the crap out of us with the very simple appeal of framing us as killers of cute Disney animals. How we do it isn't part of the "common knowledge" base of the masses simply because the antis, whose ilk are in control of the mass media and social media outlets, don't allow for these nuances to enter the discussion. Try to bring it up and watch how you get shouted down! Very similar to members of certain political parties being shouted out of a restaurant these days by supporters of the other political party. Logic, truth, common sense, and more importantly, civility, have all been replaced with Mob Mentality. It's a simple message and appealing to the masses. Once the masses get ahold of the message and begin chanting and shouting, it's almost impossible to stop.

Sure, once you get the "average non-hunter" into a one on one conversation, you have a descent chance of swaying their opinion to our side, as is the case anytime logic and truth are on your side of the argument. But one on one discussions are not enough to turn back the title wave of public opinion formed by the actions of the mob.

Case in point: The wife and I were leaving in a couple of days for our first safari several years back. We were having dinner in a nice steak restaurant and ran into a couple she knew from our kids' school. When we told them we were going on safari, they both recoiled in disgust. Later in the evening, I walked past them on the way to the restroom and the lady looked up at me, gave me a thumbs down, and said "Boooo. Hunting". Then she cut another piece of steak and ate it.

How do we counter that level of denial? How do we counter the level of brainwashing that would allow an "intelligent" person to condemn an activity that leads to the exact activity they are engaged in at the moment they are proclaiming their condemnation? How does that ship get turned around? How do we wake up the masses to the hypocrisy?

I don't know the answer. I don't know that there is an answer. But one on one discussions aren't doing it anymore than bailing out water with buckets would have saved the Titanic, even if every person on board had a bucket. In other words, we are now fighting a battle that has more momentum than the sum of it's individual parts. In the mean time, I do know that organizations like SCI and DSC, with whatever faults they may have, are engaged in lobbying and litigation to try and protect our rights from those that want to take them away. Some here just refuse to see these organizations for what they are. They are not primarily "boots on the ground" funders of specific conservation programs on the African continent. They are organizations centered on legislative affairs. Until an effective answer is found to counter the crazies, I'll continue to support the organizations that fight the legal battles to maintain our rights, even if I have to hold my nose at some of the antics they participate in ... like the awards program.

Todd...obviously I don't claim my point to be the "answer" to the problem. I just believe we could do / change some things to portray a cleaner image, that's all. Non-hunters are the target audience...they are the masses and they will ultimately have the largest vote by far. The word "trophy" has been turned into a four letter word by the opposition...awards programs just scream that a bit more loudly IMO.

We can argue till the cows come home.

The fact is SCI has turned hunting into a competition, which is abhorant to most hunters.

It got to the stage that all it takes is money to get into the top of SCI lists of "mine is bigger than yours"!

How childish can one get?

And why is SCI keeping what they do in Africa a secret?

While they glorify every selfish Tom, Dick and Harry with their utterly silly awards?

A while back we had two gents from SCI who came here huffing and buffing because they did not like what some of us were posting about SCI.

I thought we might be on the right track that at long last they might listen to actual hunters instead of the ME ME ME crowd they are so in love with.

But that did not happen.

They both disappeared into oblivion, and SCI is just as we have always thought of.

An organization for awarding stupid medals to clueless, selfish idiots who have no idea what hunting actually is!

Very well said, Saeed. 100%.
Cal

In some ways, some people will use anything against us no matter what we do or say
They will keep attacking and we will keep giving ground
Maybe we need to take lesson from “ Art of war”

I see the same sort of arguments here about SCI that I see about the NRA. While I do not totally and religiously agree with absolutely every single thing either organization does, I am a member of both. I will continue to be a member of both until that absolutely perfect in every single thing organization comes along that defends my right to hunt and own firearms. Let me know when you form that perfect organization that offends absolutely nobody anywhere in the world and does those two things for me and I will join it.

Here is a link to the audited financial statements of SCI:

https://www.safariclub.org/doc...-FS-SCI.pdf?sfvrsn=4

Here is a link to the audited financial statements of the SCI Foundation:

http://www.safariclubfoundatio.../05/FS-FY17-SCIF.pdf

Maybe SCI (if they don't already do this) should eliminate the trophy awards and change over to awards for donors who deliver the most work/donations directly to the conservation, anti poaching and habitat initiatives.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
Maybe SCI (if they don't already do this) should eliminate the trophy awards and change over to awards for donors who deliver the most work/donations directly to the conservation, anti poaching and habitat initiatives.

You must be kidding Ann!

SCI changing their ways from catering for the ME ME ME crowd to being a real FIRST FOR HUNTERS organization?

WE can only dream, that is all!

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
Maybe SCI (if they don't already do this) should eliminate the trophy awards and change over to awards for donors who deliver the most work/donations directly to the conservation, anti poaching and habitat initiatives.

Ann I agree with you 200% but as Larry and I have discussed offline, there is simply too much money at stake for SCI to give up those awards.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Here is a link to the audited financial statements of the SCI Foundation:

http://www.safariclubfoundatio.../05/FS-FY17-SCIF.pdf

Thanks for posting Larry,
I'm quite surprised by how low the Revenuea are..especially Convention related. Doesn't seem possible...