The word I get is that Elephant are the #1 DG animal that will runn-oft after the shot and not be recovered. Has this ever happened to you? A grim prospect indeed............

Not if you hit them right the first time!

And shoot them in the vitals once they fall.

The elephant across border scenario is one that every elephant hunter dreads. It has happened to a couple of guys I know and affected them profoundly.

I've never had that happen to me, but I can only imagine how horrible I would feel if it did. For that matter, it would depress me to have any animal get away wounded only to live in pain or expire inhumanely.

You hunt elephant long enough and it will happen to you!

465H&H

Didn't it happen to Feldstein with the first Elephant he shot with the 700 Nitro ?


I am with Todd, I hate it when any animal gets away wounded.

.

touch wood i have never lost an elephant , however one time we were approaching a bull , i hadnt seen the ivory yet when the client shot - through the bush , hitting the bull very high and left - i was of course taken by surprise and in those days carried a 375 bolt gun , i tried to shoot the elephant in the hop as he departed and then ran after him in the jesse but was unable to get another shot into him - we tracked the rest of that day and lost the track on hard ground - we were a very quiet group around the table that night -

two days later we spotted a track that my tracker at the time said was the same bull , i was doubtful and so sent the apprentice and the tracker on the track - 2 days old and about 12 kilometres from where we had wounded the bull - like i say i was very sceptical - it was about 10 am , the heat of the day and the tracks were two days old - that evening at 5pm i get a radio call from an exhausted couple of men , they had found the dead bull - very small ivory and very stinky - one of the very best examples of what a great tracker can do !!!!

quote:

Originally posted by ivan carter:
touch wood i have never lost an elephant ,

That's pretty impressive, considering how many you have hunted

quote:

Originally posted by ivan carter: - 2 days old and about 12 kilometres from where we had wounded the bull - like i say i was very sceptical - it was about 10 am , the heat of the day and the tracks were two days old - that evening at 5pm i get a radio call from an exhausted couple of men , they had found the dead bull

And that is also impressive

quote:

Originally posted by ivan carter: - 2 days old and about 12 kilometres from where we had wounded the bull - like i say i was very sceptical - it was about 10 am , the heat of the day and the tracks were two days old - that evening at 5pm i get a radio call from an exhausted couple of men , they had found the dead bull

Good trackers are probably the most under rated group in all of Africa. Most are no better than a seasoned Whitetail hunter here in the States, but once you hunt with a Master Tracker, you never forget them. LDK

quote:

Good trackers are probably the most under rated group in all of Africa.

right on ! i maintain that a Ph is only as good as his trackers and i think a huge number of animals would be otherwise lost after that first shot without a great tracker - they are tough people to find though and a dying breed -

sorry dont mean to hijack the thread and make it about trackers !

I lost an elephant two years ago. It was a very bad feeling. We looked for that sucker for the remainder of that hunt ( 5 or 6 days)

Too the best of my knowledge he was never found and I honestly believe he is still with us today.

I leave in less than 6 weeks to make amends. I am off to the rifle range as soon as I hit the Post Now button

Some of the fault at times lies with the PH trying to get clients to shoot at eles that are too far away or when the client isn't ready or can't see, or something.

And no I haven't lost any.

My first elephant was lost due to a poorly placed first shot. Place was the Doma area in Northern Zimbabwe,rifle was a Mdl 70 SS Classic custom shooting 375H&H handloads with 300 gr Woodleigh solids. Elephant was facing me at approximately 25 ft. There were 3 bulls and they were all sniffing the air and very nervous. Head high fairly skimpy grass. PH and tracker were both exorting me to SHOOT. Waited till the trunk came down and lined up on what I thought was the brain and touched one off. Elephant immediately and I DO mean immediately sat down and just as immediately sprang back up just like a jack-in-the-box. By the time I was reloaded he was spinning to the right and moving. I didn't know how fast Elephants could move. I put anothe where I think the heart/lungs are with no response. The PH fired one shot and then told me to stop shooting although I could still plainly see the Bull. We started to immediately track into heavier grass where you could not see in front of your self. Found a place he had stopped and turned around a couple of times judging from the trampled grass. A couple of pints of frothy very red blood found on the ground. The bull then started for the boundary of the Doma Safari area at high speed. The PH and tracker followed him till he crossed the boundary. He never again stopped they said. I could not walk fast enough to keep up with them. Heard later the Elephant did die. Fault was entirely mine as I knew I should not shoot from the get go and let myself be prodded into it by the trackerand PH. Also the 375H&H I used was probably marginal for less than a perfectly placed shot. Had I had the 470 I used on the next one I MIGHT POSSIBLY have salvaged the shot. Paid the trophy fee with no complaints then or now.

quote:

Originally posted by ivan carter:

quote:

Good trackers are probably the most under rated group in all of Africa.

right on ! i maintain that a Ph is only as good as his trackers and i think a huge number of animals would be otherwise lost after that first shot without a great tracker - they are tough people to find though and a dying breed -
)

Plus 1 on that. I've had three guys that really stood out and they will certainly minimise lost game.

Ivan does not lose any Elephants because he RUNS after them gun ablaze!!!! LOL!

I've not lost an Ele yet, but the thought of losing one does make my stomach turn!!!

This is why I prefer to get really close and take only frontal brain shots. If in the event a misplaced shot is taken you have the chance to hit the animal in any number of vital spots as it either whirls around, or charges you!!

Best to take them "straight-on"!!!

JW

I freely admit that I've lost a few animals along the way, but I've never had to track an elephant that I've shot. Touch wood, it sure can happen, and as many of you have seen on camera, my first shot hasn't always been perfect. You want it to be, but it isn't always, so almost as important as being careful with the first shot is to not hesitate with the second (and third, etc.). Cheers, Craig

Stop brain shooting and start heart lungs shooting. You will loose much less elephants. Bigger target easier not to miss! never lost one but on one occasion nearly lost it from a badly side brain shot. second shhot in the lungs slowed him down and could track him in the bicoro and finish him. This was on the cameroon rainforest and i was scared to death

zimbawe as sone one else said the famous last words of a trophy fee gone bad

Don't shoot again he's hit hard the frist time.

It is to bad that your PH did't belive in shooting until they are on the ground and dead.

quote:

Originally posted by dwarf416:
Stop brain shooting and start heart lungs shooting. You will loose much less elephants. Bigger target easier not to miss! never lost one but on one occasion nearly lost it from a badly side brain shot. second shhot in the lungs slowed him down and could track him in the bicoro and finish him. This was on the cameroon rainforest and i was scared to death

There is truth in that but there are times and reasons to take the brain shot instead. Of course one has to be able to pull it off.

quote:

Stop brain shooting and start heart lungs shooting. You will loose much less elephants. Bigger target easier not to miss! never lost one but on one occasion nearly lost it from a badly side brain shot. second shhot in the lungs slowed him down and could track him in the bicoro and finish him. This was on the cameroon rainforest and i was scared to death

Exactly my point - you took an iffy side brain shot - NOT a frontal brain shot at close range! You could have avoided a whole lot of fear, anxiety and risk to other people had you taken a close-up frontal shot.

Plus it's just a helluva lot more fun (and more humane) to have to jockey into position to get the shot - a REAL challenge!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Wemmer:

quote:

Stop brain shooting and start heart lungs shooting. You will loose much less elephants. Bigger target easier not to miss! never lost one but on one occasion nearly lost it from a badly side brain shot. second shhot in the lungs slowed him down and could track him in the bicoro and finish him. This was on the cameroon rainforest and i was scared to death

Exactly my point - you took an iffy side brain shot - NOT a frontal brain shot at close range! You could have avoided a whole lot of fear, anxiety and risk to other people had you taken a close-up frontal shot.

Plus it's just a helluva lot more fun (and more humane) to have to jockey into position to get the shot - a REAL challenge!!!

In my opinion you are more likey to muck up a frontal shot than a side brain shot. The frontal is much more difficult. The most sure shot is as stated above the high heart/lung shot.

465H&H

quote:

In my opinion you are more likey to muck up a frontal sho

Yes, if you are 50 yards away and haven't taken sufficient time to study the animal's anatomy and practiced shooting quite a bit!

As for heart lung shots, I don't care for the idea of a large animal running off into the bush for god knows how far and for how long.

To each his own - I just prefer it up close and personal.

I think there are more elephant wounded and lost than most would think. Probably just not something most folks talk about.

A good reason for a good brain shot! And a shot to the vitals in the chest if it doesn't immediately drop.

In my experience you are much more likely to be charged by the "other" elephant in a herd situation when you take either a brain or shoulder shot that anchors your target animal immediately. When you drop one of a herd the others mill around the fallen elephant and the matriarch of the herd starts looking for you. If she locates you a charge is highly likely. Take a heart/lung shot and that animal will run off in the direction it is facing and drop usually within 100 yards. The rest of the herd runs off with it and usually keeps on going when it drops. You are much less likely to have to shoot an extra animal with the heart/lung shot. This will save you many anxious moments when you have to explain why you shot an extra animal to the Park's Ranger.

465H&H

Jeff, I have taken side brain shots, frontal brainshots and heart and lungs shots. the elephant I sht furthest was 20 meters to a 90 pounder that was heading to the parki and found in an open patch of bush. I take things as they come... I expresly mentioned cameroon rainforest bacause anyone that has hunted there knows how ridiculously thick it is. The first rainforest elephant was shot at 5 meters with a texas shoot, (416 rem) run 30 meters and fell stone dead. Remember rainforest elephants are tiny compared to the hwange bulls. Different subspecies. at 5 meters, after the shoot there was time absolutely for nothing. Vanished with one step. we were trying to get into a better position for the better part of 20 mins to no avail.(as a side comment we got charged by his buddy and had to stand our ground using as a trench the corpse of his buddy. Visibility o meters)The second rainforest elephant was shoot as a side brain because he was in the middle of a group of cows and calf and it was the only thing I could see. After the shoot I was damn lucky with my second shoot that hit upper lungs troght the thicket. The tracking in the bicoro is something you cannot imagine if you havent been in the rainforest. Not for sissys. Our pygmy Kanga crawled under one elephant to see if it had balls. terrific.
frontal brainshots done two to two different eles at 14meters finished this one as he departed with a heart shoot. the other frontal brainshoot was at 6 meters after being charged. Stopped the charge but did not fall. As he tried to recover finished him with 2 hear shoots as he had turned.
I have only shoot 8 elephants myself, backed dad on another one and my uncle on another one.
Have done 14 safaris after elles and spend the better part of 240 days after and amongst them. It is not a matter of not getting close my friend it is a matter of not leaving elles with a terrible headache and a sad client. Cheers my friend

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
In my experience you are much more likely to be charged by the "other" elephant in a herd situation when you take either a brain or shoulder shot that anchors your target animal immediately. When you drop one of a herd the others mill around the fallen elephant and the matriarch of the herd starts looking for you. If she locates you a charge is highly likely. Take a heart/lung shot and that animal will run off in the direction it is facing and drop usually within 100 yards. The rest of the herd runs off with it and usually keeps on going when it drops. You are much less likely to have to shoot an extra animal with the heart/lung shot. This will save you many anxious moments when you have to explain why you shot an extra animal to the Park's Ranger.

465H&H

But this means you miss out on at least half the fun!

quote:

Originally posted by dwarf416:
Our pygmy Kanga crawled under one elephant to see if it had balls. terrific.

Since the testicles on Elephant are internal, I'm doubting this statement!

well he was crawling to loook at something! maybe it was the pennis I don´t speak french or baka but I assure you he crawled

I wounded a bull late in the day, putting two shots in him. The next day the trackers got deluded into following four bulls who were the wrong ones. We came up with them late that day. The third day we tracked the bull into the Cheti Safari Area and had to go get a permit and a special game scout to enter that area. The trackers found the right tracks. A small airplane returning to Harare volunteered to search from the air and located the elephant when we were on the track about 700 yards from it. It was dead.

My PH, Rory Muil, said that in 19 years he had only lost two elephants, in both cases when they merged their tracks with large groups.

It always amazes me when someone tells us how easy the frontal brain shot is on elephant. It usually comes from someone that has taken from one to five elephants with this shot and had no trouble. I was in that position once my self when I had a string of my first eight or so elephants being downed by frontals. I too thought it was a sure thing. Additional experience has taught me how wrong I was.

I just finished watching the TV show "Dangerous Game". In it PH Jeff Rhan is shown taking two bulls in Botswana for his own hunting. Now Jeff has over 30 years of experience hunting elephant and as we all know is an excellent shot with a double or bolt rifle. In this episode he is unsuccessful on the frontal shot on both bulls. He gets a second chance for a frontal on the second ele and misses that one also! In both cases it took multiple shots in a running chase to finish the bull.

Easy? Not hardly!

465H&H

The missing link here is that, especially in thick bush/close range, it's the elephant that dictates the shot, regardless of the hunter's preferences or best intentions. The frontal brain shot is not my preference, but sometimes that's the shot you have. It is not only the easiest to mess up; it asks for the most penetration, and sometimes, depending on angle/caliber/velocity/bullet/et al ad nauseum, the bullet doesn't get there. One advantage, which has saved me, is that, provided the elephant isn't charging, when the frontal shot fails he must turn one way or the other, which opens up another vital shot. The second shot can be just as important as the first, but things happen very fast. Cheers, C

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
It always amazes me when someone tells us how easy the frontal brain shot is on elephant. It usually comes from someone that has taken from one to five elephants with this shot and had no trouble. I was in that position once my self when I had a string of my first eight or so elephants being downed by frontals. I too thought it was a sure thing. Additional experience has taught me how wrong I was.

I just finished watching the TV show "Dangerous Game". In it PH Jeff Rhan is shown taking two bulls in Botswana for his own hunting. Now Jeff has over 30 years of experience hunting elephant and as we all know is an excellent shot with a double or bolt rifle. In this episode he is unsuccessful on the frontal shot on both bulls. He gets a second chance for a frontal on the second ele and misses that one also! In both cases it took multiple shots in a running chase to finish the bull.

Easy? Not hardly!

465H&H

You are right, of course. Anyone that says the frontal shot is easy is full of crap. Like you, I suspect the PH was telling them where to shoot on a half-sleeping bull. To pull it off by oneself or in a charge is another story entirely.

And most eles that are claimed to be brained with frontal shots aren't really brained but knocked out or just knocked down, but that is a whole other chapter.

My experience is somewhat limited. However, I have killed three, all starting with frontals at 12-15 yards. The first cow went down, turned her head and succumbed to a followup side brain. The second cow was struck about a hand's breadth low. It was where I was aiming, I just misjudged the angle. Followup body shots from Buzz and me. End of the day, maybe 15 minutes of tracking, and we found her standing but sick. A frontal finished her. My bull was coming, not charging. Frontal maybe an inch below where it should have gone. He went down, but collapsed from the front. Not brain shot, maybe spined. All these with 470NE Woodleigh solids.
My assessment? Not a sure thing, even if the bullets strike where you aim them. It is not an easy shot. That being said, I'll do it again first chance I get. I have a second barrel, and a good PH backing me up. In a charge? What choice do you have?
When I had the chance to meet Richard Harland this past March, I asked him what he thought of that shot for a client hunter. He said he prefers a brain shot, because he immediately knows if he needs to start shooting.
When an elephant turns and disappears from sight after the shot, well, it's not a good feeling.