quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:
Mark and Peter,

You would think two long haired hippies could agree on this simple matter.

at least he got great hair style, it is quite practial as well, one hair cut a year and you are good to go

Take away:

If you like double rifles, can afford owning one, and can still hunt Africa by all means do it!!!!

If you can't afford both, but love doubles more than hunting Africa they by all means buy doubles!!!

If you can't afford both, but love African hunting more than doubles shoot a friend's double and go hunt!!!

If you can't afford both and like doubles and hunting in Africa equally......God help you!!!

If you don't like African hunting or doubles.....WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING ON THE AR AFRICAN BIG GAME HUNTING FORUM??? Sorry!

Brett

MacD37:

I hope you realize I just took you for a walk in the park and lured you into entertaining us all on the ins and outs of hand loaded ammunition with special reference to double rifles.

I never for one doubted your capabilities on hand loading - your detailed explanations merely confirmed your undisputed status in this particular field.

In confessing I have never reloaded my own ammo DR for the same reason you quoted: "usually from a country that doesn't allow them to hand load ammo" - though I did successfully reload 375 ammo on the sly at one time years back.

The hand loads I tried were given to me by several different clients on a trial basis - they worked well in their rifles but not mine, again reconfirming one of your statements.

However, not all or any factory ammo works for me other than WR as first choice and Kynamco as second - I say second because the occasional cartridge will not seat fully.
The last batch of original Kynoch was of no problem but when Kynamco took over the situation changed.
Both Federal and Bell are totally out of the question for my rifle.

Performance-wise I have found WR ammo to be the
most suited for my rifle - maybe WR has given consideration to vintage rifles whose chamber tolerances may not have been as precise as those of today - mine was built in the mid-30s
and given the age of 'Old Betsy', would rather not take any further risks in dabbling with ammo other than the one I know performs to meet requirements.

Thanks for having taken the trouble, time and patience in giving us a "lecture" on the art of hand loading and my apologies if my "goading" was taken out of context.


Cheers!

quote:

Originally posted by kibokolambogo:
MacD37:

I hope you realize I just took you for a walk in the park and lured you into entertaining us all on the ins and outs of hand loaded ammunition with special reference to double rifles.

I never for one doubted your capabilities on hand loading - Cheers!

Well done! Good show on the smoke and mirrors! It seems I've yet again bit hook line and sinker! I guess that was simply a bait that was so tasty that I couldn't refuse!

quote:

The hand loads I tried were given to me by several different clients on a trial basis - they worked well in their rifles but not mine, again reconfirming one of your statements.

However, not all or any factory ammo works for me other than WR as first choice and Kynamco as second - I say second because the occasional cartridge will not seat fully.
The last batch of original Kynoch was of no problem but when Kynamco took over the situation changed.
Both Federal and Bell are totally out of the question for my rifle.

Federal shoots OK in my 470NE but my Handloads are far better, velocities are sort of erratic in the federal ammo that I have used. I got 5 boxes of Federal ammo with my rifle when I bought it from one of the posters here a few years ago, and I shot it all except 40 rounds. I pulled the bullets, and weighed the powder charges and there was as much as one grain of powder weight difference in many of the cartridges. This is what happens when gang powder measures are used at the factory. The accuracy wasn't that noticable at under 100 yds, but any shot longer than that couldn't be relied on! I re-charged the cases with carefully weighed loads of H-4831sc and the groups at 150 yds tightened up so shot placement was far better. The federal is OK for back up if my ammo is lost in transit, and it is all I can buy, but I shoot only handloads in all my doubles otherwise. Some of them because nobody loads factory for some of my older doubles.

You got me Kibo! No worries!

Don't like hunting with eyeglasses and can't aim open site without them....thus, I have scopes on everything but my shotguns....so I don't use a double....wish I could!!

Tom- Solution is to put a scope on your double

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:
I grew up shooting a SxS shotgun and reading stories from the old days of East Africa. Doubles are in my blood, so buying one was only a natural extension of me and my passion! I LOVE English doubles!!!! As another said what other people do would be the last reason for buying one. Either you love them or you don't. Either you get them or you don't. Either way you can still have lots of fun hunting!

Brett

+1

Also, having grown up with a Double shotgun in my hands almost every day,
the now instinctive pointing of a properly fitted/balanced double is second nature.

With that second nature comes the comfort and confidence to be relatively calm in a "hurried" shot.

Doubles aren't for everyone, they can be finicky to load for,
expensive to purchase and at times the wrong gun in your hands
(but that can happen with a scoped bolt also).

It's really about YOU,
how you feel with the weapon in hand,
are you comfortable and confident,
or hesitant and concerned,
that, is where the answer lies,
for me at least.

Mine felt second nature,
no,
actually,
first nature, an extension of me.

It is your call;
and should be your comfort level
that should make help your decision,--
not mine or anyone else's.

I actually shoot better with a double, but did not grow up with them. To me they're more natural to operate in the field then a bolt gun. Also true that, with several double guns come and gone, the plan is to hunt with the bolt gun to assure I can pay for the hunt!

I too, take exception that double rifles are short range and inaccurate.

I did some load development for a Heym .470 NE for a local fellow about a year ago.

I didn't have any experience loading for one and little more shooting them.

I cast 515 gr. LBT WFNGC bullets for the load development running them from 2,100 to 2,350 fps, settling on 2,150 fps.

Putting nearly 100 rounds through that gun in a short period of time I got fairly handy with it and learned that double rifles are quite nice to shoot, and they do shoot well. At least that one does.

When shooting with the fellow after getting the load together, he was surprised to find 200 yard shots weren’t difficult, and also found his rifle was easily good for 300 yards using a quick detach scope and sticks to do so. He is left handed and also found that for some reason he pulled hard to the right, which we corrected before his trip to Mozambique.

He had taken the rifle on safari the year before and didn't do too well with it. However, he left last year with way more confidence than you could imagine after seeing it shoot and shooting it enough to gain his own proficiency with it.

He took two sables, a leopard, several warthogs and who knows what else with those cast bullet loads and two buffalo with factory loads and who knows what else on that trip.

The worst part of the whole deal is I’ve been looking ever since for one of my own since I shot his so much. They sort of grow on you.

A double rifle may not be for everyone, but I know when I go to Africa for the first time, I’ll have a .470 double even if it’s only a plains game hunt, and I won’t be getting rid of my bolt guns either.

David