For a first time hunter?

I am looking at a hunt in Namibia, as it holds a few of my must have species as naturally occuring animals. Also the cost is great, and the travel is easy as Lufthansa flies directly from Denver to Frankfurt, so I could get to Africa with only 1 connection.

The package hunts with the company I'm speaking to, have some GREAT hunts for the money, but each package has several animals I just feel...."meh" about shooting. Specifically, I'm after Eland and Oryx, and would dedicate the needed time for a great bull of each. I don't want to feel rushed by having to shoot 6-9 animals because I've already paid for them, and can't substitute the package lists.

So I guess what I am really asking is who has done the daily + shoot what you want PG hunt, and what are your thoughts on it?

I'm open to other targets of chance, like if the PH says my god that's one of the biggest springboks I've ever seen!! Shoot!! Then yes, id shoot lol

See if you can swap some of the animals you don't like for similarly priced animals you do want. I would always count on seeing targets of opportunity. I did so on my first (and only) trip.

On plains game,, I never do a package hunt,, I may have a wish list,,,, but,, I negotiate a daily rate,, most outfits have a list of trophy fees that you can review prior to the hunt. I may tell my Ph what I am really interested in,, but it is hunting,, take what Africa gives you, especially if it your first hunt. I always get the price list from them as well and hang on to it in case they get amnesia on what the animals cost.
Package deals may look reasonable, some are flexible and some will let you substitute animals or pay extra or the difference in price between animals, etc. Be careful of an all or none package hunt. There are some shady folks that will sell you a 7 animal hunt at a very reasonable, especially if some of the species are very rare or non existent where they hunt,, how are you going to know? I prefer a la carte on plains game. I like the opportunity if I come across a really good specimen,, I know the price,, it fits the budget,,, boooomm!!

you can ask some of the Ph's and outfitters that post here about their thoughts,,,I hear that there are hunters that will go and spend a bunch of time and barely shoot anything thus the daily fees are all that the Ph has to make money on. That has never been a problem with me,, and that may be why some promote package hunts,, I travel that far,,,, I want to draw some blood.

MHS, it's your hunt, do what you want. Most all PH's are happy to please, but some are steadfast and hard to sway. If it were me, I'd book the hunt based on daily rates plus trophy fees. If you want Eland and Gemsbok only, then state that. If along the way your PH say's "That's a trophy of a lifetime, take him if you want" then it's your decision. I always try to educate my first time clients as to what constitutes a trophy and the game they are likely to encounter in a given area. I also want them to have a secondary or back up list. That way IF they do see a real trophy they didn't have on their primary list, they don't waste valuable time considering their options. Wild game doesn't stand around too long, and your decision may need to be instantaneous. Generally, you will save $$ on a package hunt. That's why they're offered, but in my personal experience, package hunts aren't for everyone, and I recommend or do not recommend them based on my clients desires and expectations.
Good hunting,
David

I like the ala carte style myself.

In addition to the trophy of a lifetime based on size, don't forget the local specialties like a mountain zebra in Namibia.

Go ala carte, but know your priorities and trophy level desired. AND communicate that early on with the outfitter, and with the PH.
Package hunts can tend to be slam/bam.

I think I'm sold on the a la carte method! Ill just put together a 2nd and 3rd list of animals just in case. Ill speak to the outfitter again to see what on the list is available where id likely be hunting. I already took 1 animal off my list, and by his suggestion, since it is not indigenous and would be hunted on a high fence farm, I appreciate that he was blunt about that fact. I don't mind hunting other animals, I just know that oryx and eland are not always easy hunts, eland especially, and id hate to be worried about filling my "lists" if those animals took extra time. At the same time, if I lucked out early with time to spare ill need some other animals to pursue!

Many thanks friends!

I've only done ala carte and that's probably the only way I would do it unless someone else is paying for it. The first evening in camp we discussed my wish list and which were the most important. That has worked fine with me in both Namibia and Zimbabwe.

MHS,

Packages tend to offer a variety of animals that the outfitter if he is honest has lots of or are particularly abundant on a property he hunts. These packages are usually a good deal for a guy that is on a strict budget and would be more than happy with several representative animals. For a hunter looking for a few better than average trophies the daily fee plus trophy fees is the way to go. In your case perhaps a mid 30# oryx is not what you are looking for but your willing to put in the time and effort to find one 38" or larger. Maybe your looking for a old blue bull eland and not a younger one. Most package hunts are not likely to get you these kinds of trophies nor will they allow time enough to be very discriminating.

Mark

Ala Carte.
Over the last few years I have heard lots of complaints from both sides of the table.

Hunter gets 3 of five and complains as his bag is incomplete. Perhaps he saw several of the two not taken but they were not to his liking..

I've heard the provider offer a package the he felt was in demand only to have a hunter change his mind and the PH have to travel etc. at extra expense that cust was not willing to pay. Just too complicated. There can become just too many moving parts

In the field is not time to re-negotiate a change in bag with a 60" kudu or such in the optics.

L. David Keith and Mark Young are spot on.

"These packages are usually a good deal for a guy that is on a strict budget and would be more than happy with several representative animals...." M. Young

"Representative" is a key word.

Enjoy your adventure and do not judge the hunt by a single moment.

Mark,

I hope the outfitter is honest

Dan

I went with a package hunt for my first (and only, so far) Africa hunt to RSA. The price helped save some money that I could use on my "wish" animals if the chance occurred. The package included the "standard" plains game with which I was happy to take. For the animals that I wasn't able to shoot in the package due to small animals or no change to shoot, I received credit to use on other animals which included a gemsbok that was on my wish list.

I sure wouldn't think that having the opportunity to see many head of a particular type of animal that the PH may have available in his package as necessarily a bad thing as some seem to imply. I would think that the more animals on a species seen, the more opportunity to see a good one to shoot vs. seeing only a handful of critters and get stuck with shooting one of those few.

Then again, what do I know.

I didn't mean to imply that lots of animals of a particulr species on a property was a bad thing but that an operator is going to offer in his packages the animals that will be easiest to hunt in the time alloted for the package. This is what an honest operator does. A disreputable operator might offer some high dollar or somewhat elusive trophies in a package knowing full well that the clients have nearly zero chance of being successful. That is where checking references and dealing with reputable operators comes in.

One operator that I represent in Botswana offers an eland, kudu, oryx and wildebeest on a 7 day package. All four species are abundant and the area offers the best eland and kudu I've ever seen. This is an ideal package because you'll shoot good tropies and perhaps very good trophies.

Mark

It is always a toss up--

Mark and David both bring up some great points, I will say, for most first time safari people, they want to shoot a bunch. So packages are great bc they have plenty of animals.

Now's here's something to really think about when evaluating a package hunt, and should be a red-flag... (David and Mark feel free to back me up if you agree)

Packages that have animals like duiker, steenbok, baboons, jackals... in my opinion are bullsh*t. Here's my logic, I didn't get a shot at a trophy steenbok till my 2nd safaris, and didn't get a trophy duiker till my 3rd, and I hunted the duiker for 4 days...shooting nothing else. Baboons in most places should be free....most ph's hate those bastards, and jackals should be free too... SO they add 0$ value to a hunt. However, they are often thrown in on the back of a package to increase the animals included count...

If you're hunting Namibia, your package should have gemsbok, springbok, hartebeest, mt. zebra, for sure. Kudus have become difficult to attain in certain areas, and the monster's of 10 yrs ago 55"+, are insanely difficult to find.

If you're hunting free range...good luck, I've done both, and depending on the area, time of year, there might not be a bunch of game. On a plainsgame hunt, fences don't bother me, as long as it's a big place, but be careful, I hunted on a place that was free-range last year, lots of game, went back this year, NO game. Things can change.

With the economy, people are hurting, don't let them lie to you and say otherwise, Namibia especially, there was a huge glutton of semi-professional hunters that emerged in the past years. And now there's not enough business to go around. Don't go to cheap, and certainly don't pay too much.

When it comes to plainsgame, for the most part, I tell people if you don't want to come for at least 7-10 days, and shoot a bunch of animals, it probably isn't worth all the costs, cause there's plenty more add-ons to hunting in africa.

Also, don't just limit yourself to Namibia, there's good outfits in RSA as well, look around, talk to Mark, David, and Wade Derby...

quote:

Packages that have animals like duiker, steenbok, baboons, jackals... in my opinion are bullsh*t. Here's my logic, I didn't get a shot at a trophy steenbok till my 2nd safaris, and didn't get a trophy duiker till my 3rd, and I hunted the duiker for 4 days...shooting nothing else. Baboons in most places should be free....most ph's hate those bastards, and jackals should be free too... SO they add 0$ value to a hunt. However, they are often thrown in on the back of a package to increase the animals included count...

Oryx

I mostly agree about the species you mentioned above. Steenbok unless they are incredibly abundant can be quite difficult. These guys along with the common duiker only need to make one jump and they're gone in the grass. Jackals and baboons in ranch country have been persecuted for years so they are not easy either. It would be a rare day on one of these plains game ranches were you could say lets go specifically hunt any of the four mentioned animals and be successful. Baboons might be the easiest but you might have to shoot 300 yards.

On another subject concerning plains game most people only consider RSA or Namibia but Botwana, Zimbabwe, Mozambique and to a smaller degree Zambia offer some superb plains game hunts priced comparably to the mid-higher end RSA ends. These hunts are often in areas holding the Big 5 or they can be in complete wilderness areas such as Coutada 9 in Mozambique where Mike 70560 did so well recently.

Mark

I've been over twice, once in 2004 to KwaZulu Natal and this year to the Eastern Cape. On both trips, I purchased packages.

On the first trip, I didn't care what species I took because I didn't have any of them except for a kudu, which was included as one of the package animals. I never got a chance at a trophy kudu, so I paid the difference between a kudu and nyala. Of these animals, 3 of the 5 would make the SCI book, if I would like to enter them. So, don't think that a package hunt is just a whack em and stack em hunt.

This year, the package I purchased had a blue wildebeest and impala included, which I shot on my first trip. So, I was able to swap the blue wildebeest for a black wildebeest and I swapped the impala for a mountain reedbuck. While hunting, I never got a chance at a springbok but I did take a nice old common duiker, which at the end of the hunt, the outfitter swapped for springbok. He certainly didn't need or have to do this, but he certainly won some points with me and his character truly came thru.

As others have stated, a la carte hunts are very good because you, or your PH, won't feel the pressure to take certain species. However, your PH should have a "game plan" for the animals he wants to take and basically what order he would like to pursue them. For example, many of your brush loving species will generally be the hardest to find. Your open plains animals like impala, blesbok, springbok, etc. are usually easy to find because they are commonly found in the open. Therefore, your PH will have a general idea of what he would like to take after first.

My next hunt will likely be an a la carte hunt, since many of the major species will have been taken. Therefore, I'll likely talk to the outfitter about putting together a specail hunt for some of the harder to get, or more special species.

One thing regardless of what you choose to do. Always take extra money for species you haven't previously thought of taking. You never know what might catch your eye!

Good luck!!!

In 2005 I took 14 Namibian big game animals, and shot about 30 small game animals in 10 days.

I did it on a package hunt for 10 animals. So I paid for 4 extra ones.

I shot 3 nice gemsbok, all in the 37-39 inch range.

I did not shoot a huge springbok, but I didn't really know what I was looking at either, but I did shoot 3 12 inchers.

2 red hartebeast, both were ok.

1 blesbok, he was fine 12 inches, and old.

2 steenbuck, one huge, one ok.

giant of a baboon, good zebra, some nice cats, and things.

Had decent time, outfitter was a bastard, but not everyone gets along with everyone else.

Place was shot out on kudu, but I got a 50, and was happy with him. Only bull I saw that was an adult. Almost shot a broken horned one, on a cull price.

All animals taken on safari are trophies.

There is nothing wrong with taking mere mortals i.e. representative species.

I would recommend for your first hunt get a package and leave the tape at home, it'll ruin your hunt.

After that either go package plus or ala carte, your choice.

I was waiting for someone to mention it, and Oryxhunter 1983 did. Packages that offer what almost everyone in Africa consider vermin, such as babs, jackals and the like, are BS. They drain from your budget and waste your hunting days. Five of my 7 safaris have been PG hunts, only one was a package. The first one was a package. Took and hit and never looked back. And, BTW, since that first experience, I have been offered babs and jackal on EVERY PG hunt-- for free.
Pay the daily and shoot what you want, when you want. I think you'll be happier in the long run.

Mark,

I figured you would have caught onto the about everything being on the up and up, as you're the one I have been talking to about my hunt lol *aerofanbig@aol is me*

I agree, you have some GREAT hunts going on in other places, and liked we discussed a bit I would likely think of Coutada 10 as my 2nd trip over. The Botswana offerings you have are great too, and for the same range of game. But for the first one, I want things to go smooth and Namibia "should" be smooth for me, travel wise more then anything. I can fly Denver/Frankfurt/Windhoek very easily, so I leave my door step, make 1 layover and I'm in my destination. No rushes through JNB, no over nights, minimal baggage transfers and only though partner airlines.

I'm with everyone else here about "trophy". I'm not hunting for inches, I'm hunting for a good, mature bull. But if the opportunity presents itself for a fine animal of another species, I'm all for it. I looked at pics of all the game offered by Safari Trackers via Mark, and I put together a list of alternatives, and a list of "animal of a lifetime"....just in case. The 1 animal I'm on the fence about, would be a zebra, and likely the ONLY animal I'd have dipped/packed to use the skin for a nice rifle case/rifle sling. That would only be if one presented itself at the right place and right time, or if my priority animals had already been taken.

If you get a chance at a mountain zebra, take it and never look back!

If you book with a honest good outfitter/farm you will be happy with both options. Just make clear what you are looking for.
If you book a package and you don't get a chance on all animals the outfitter has to recalculate the package!!
Nobody who's honest honest will promise you 6animals in 5days all medalclass.

Sounds great I guess? Never heard of a 42 animal package hunt though

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
In 2005 I took 14 Namibian big game animals, and shot about 30 small game animals in 10 days.

I did it on a package hunt for 10 animals. So I paid for 4 extra ones.

I shot 3 nice gemsbok, all in the 37-39 inch range.

I did not shoot a huge springbok, but I didn't really know what I was looking at either, but I did shoot 3 12 inchers.

2 red hartebeast, both were ok.

1 blesbok, he was fine 12 inches, and old.

2 steenbuck, one huge, one ok.

giant of a baboon, good zebra, some nice cats, and things.

Had decent time, outfitter was a bastard, but not everyone gets along with everyone else.

Place was shot out on kudu, but I got a 50, and was happy with him. Only bull I saw that was an adult. Almost shot a broken horned one, on a cull price.

The key, as always, is having a reputable outfitter. If the outfitter is good either method will be fine. My first hunt was a package, buffalo, kudu, tsessebe, impala, Red Lechewe, and warthog. All good trophies. since then I have booked ala carte. I can't say that either was better. Look at the trophies offered in the package, if they are attractive book the package, if not go ala carte. Just make sure that book with a quality outfit.

quote:

Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
I'm with everyone else here about "trophy". I'm not hunting for inches, I'm hunting for a good, mature bull. But if the opportunity presents itself for a fine animal of another species, I'm all for it. I looked at pics of all the game offered by Safari Trackers via Mark, and I put together a list of alternatives, and a list of "animal of a lifetime"....just in case. The 1 animal I'm on the fence about, would be a zebra, and likely the ONLY animal I'd have dipped/packed to use the skin for a nice rifle case/rifle sling. That would only be if one presented itself at the right place and right time, or if my priority animals had already been taken.

You sound like you're going to do what a friend and I did a month ago. Neither of us are trophy hunters and the instruction to our PH was 'mature males, preferably old'. We went 'a la carte' with the only animals on a 'want list' for me was an oryx and a springbok, my buddy just took opportunities as they came along.
We brought back memories, video and photos and in my case a set of warthog tusks and both of us are happier than pigs in s*#t.
I totally agree with the comments about duiker, steenbok etc, you could put in a lot of time and effort with no guarantee of success on those little buggers.
Don't sweat the options too much, just go and enjoy it, it will change your life. I thought it was going to be a one off for me, but I'm already making plans and I've only been home 3 weeks.

Hell I already have trips 2 and 3 in my mind LOL trip 2 will be a more exotic PG hunt, trip 3 a tuskless

When I went to Namibia I told the outfitter/PH that I wanted a mountain zebra and a very good gemsbok, even if it meant hunting different areas. Since Namibia is really the only place for mountain zebra, it would be a shame to spend the money on a hunting safari there and not take one. Namibia also has great gemsbok, so that seemed a natural. Anything else would just be accessory, and huntable elsewhere as well and it meant that the hunt went as I wanted it to. I did end up taking a good springbok as well.

My first safari was a package deal. It was to Zim. I was on a budget and it worked quite well. On this hunt I hunted eight days, it was for a package hunt of 6 animals. I took a couple of extra animals and really did not have much of an opportunity on only one of the animals on the package, My suggestion is for your first hunt go and planning on shooting as much stuff as you can afford. Don't forget about the taxidermy bill.

My next two safaris have not been package hunts, nor will my next hunt. On one ten day hunt I only took four animals and on a twelve day hunt I took three. That was ok. Both hunts were special.

Just my opinion.