There's an old story about the hippy who goes up to a cop in Times Square and asks him how he gets to Carnegie Hall and the cop replies, "practice man practice"

Exactly the same rule goes for African safari hunting. It doesn't matter how often you've been on safari. To make the most of your time, money and experience you need to be well practiced when you arrive so you shoot to the very best of your ability.
A friend recently sent me a video (introduced by Craig Boddington) of the SAAM (Sportsman's All Weather All Terrain Marksmanship) Safari course in Barksdale,Texas which is run by Tim & David Fallon in Fort Worth Texas and the website is www.ftwoutfitters.com.

Frankly, the course looks to be absolutely superb and I'd recommend anyone planning an African hunting safari to do the course beforehand...... no matter how experienced they are!

I'm not sure when I'm going to be in that neck of the woods next but when I am, you can bet your life I'm going to be paying them a visit for a look round!

Steve,
This looks like an amazing thing, and I have seen Craigs intro/show about it. There's another one in the hill country that's cheaper, it was presented on Dangerous Game tv show, but it's pricey!

I realize you spend fortunes going hunting, but 2500-4000 goes a long way on some of the DG hunts....

Anybody got any comments on the shaded shot placement positions of those targets ??

quote:

Originally posted by Oryxhunter1983:
I realize you spend fortunes going hunting, but 2500-4000 goes a long way on some of the DG hunts....

I don't disagree with you but it could easily save you that much at least in trophy fees for lost animals and could just possibly save your life if things go pear shaped at an inopportune moment..... I reckon it's a great idea and to me well worth the investment.

There's also the factor that you get what you pay for and when you see the video you also see it looks to be very good value for money!

It'd be especially good for something like fathers and sons who are planning to go on a first safari together.

No argument from me on the value, but it would amount to better than 1/3rd of an RSA Plains Game hunt for most of us.

If I ever had Elephant hunting $$$ in my pocket I believe I would take the course though. Then it's about 5% of the cost.

Rich
DRSS

I thoroughly agree with Steve that you cant have too much practice and shooting at a piece of paper with a black spot on it is nearly useless.How about this cheap alternative?. Get yourself a lifesize picture and arrange it at the correct height. You are then shooting at "the real thing"
This picture of practice was taken last year, but look at the shot that was actually taken on the real thing during the hunt this year.(hunt report "Dande North with CM Safaris")
Good coincidence eh ?

I've no idea who set the shooting ranges etc up but whoever it was really knew that they were doing.

Frankly, I can't thing of anything they could do to make it more realistic.... hell they even have a night time leopard under light set up!

I tell you, I'm itching to take a look around the place!

99.9% of the whole forum cant wait to get to Africa to encounter the real wild stuff and Steve's itching to get to the States to look at some paper pictures. Have you been at the amber stuff again Steve or is it a mind numbing effect from having watched our excuse for a football team ?

Mate, I reckon it'd be really worth a good look round.... I guess it's largely curiosity but the whole thing just looks so well put together.

How about that excuse for a football team huh? - Useless bunch of tossers.

No doubt the best team won though!

I saw when they did the safari course on Tracks Across Africa. Seemed like a great way to practice, but I'm with the rest of the crowd regarding affordability. Seems like a very hard cost to justify for the "Average Bwana Joe."

tagets are not paper! diffrent courses for diffrent shooting types. safari course has moving life like target not paper with black spot targets.

one part of this course teaches long range shooting to improve your ability to jugde and shoot longer ranges. it also teches you your limitations. the safari part teachss you the aim points in diffrent distances and angles. the dark spot are for those armchair cowboys who think they know everything. the biggest complant PH's voice about hunters it there lack of shooting skill and there lack of knowledge about aim points at different ranges and angles. especialy american hunters!!!! I have talked to several ph's who have said there client all could use this cours with very few exceptions

I try to never let a day pass that I don't pull the trigger on a firearm...but...the day I spend that kind of money on a shooting course...

It would be fun if it were free though.

quote:

Originally posted by R.Jolly:
Anybody got any comments on the shaded shot placement positions of those targets ??

The first thing that I noticed as well. The shaded "kill zone" areas on the broad side buffalo and the frontal elephant are WAY off.

If you were to place that shot where the SAAAM boys have instructed you to you'd completely miss the brain on the elephant as the placement is way to high from that presentation and the buff you'd get low lung which can turn into a rodeo pretty quick.

My initial impression screams NOT impressed! Frankly I am bit shocked.

LANE
from what I know of you. you where born shooting a gun. and kill zones are in your blood

I think pics of that sort of thing on a website etc can be misleading and FWIW, I do also know that the guys involved are experienced African hunters..... Some are VERY experienced. If they can get the set ups of the shoots as good as they have, I'd be prepared to bet they've also got the shot placement right.

Also bear in mind that the photographer/cameraman almost certainly wouldn't be standing in the same place as the shooter (certainly not in the DVD because he's standing behind the shooter).

I'd say it's better to look it over in person and then decide.

I agree that this course would be an absolutely wonderful experience if one had both the time and money to attend. However, for most folks either the cost or the time to travel to and from "somewhere" Texas (or both), might be a deterrent. For most of us shooting hopefully at targets, etc. and in various positions, etc. is the most we can hope for. Practice, practice, regardless of the circumstances is the key. Also, you don't have to burn through hundreds of expensive rounds either. Using a smaller caliber rifle similar to the one you will be using in Africa, even a .22 works. Also, one of the famous "old guys", can't remember which one, said he dry fired his rifle (you can use snap caps) literally thousands of times. Every time you point and hold your rifle and squeeze the trigger you are "practicing" whether dry firing off hand or off sticks at a speck on the wall or a target. Handling your gun enough that it feels like an extension of your body and learning what "first" shots to take and not to take consistent with your ability and comfort zone will do more for your shooting than any shooting school, no matter how good I believe.

if I'm not mistaken ruger built several 233 cal rifle for them in safari configurations for there course. and the food an't bad either

E-mail: monty@safarishootingschool.com

Website: www.safarishootingschool.com

The above is the place in the hill country that Jerad (oryxhunter1983) is talking about I think, and he is right it is a good place, and is much cheaper.

I have been a guest at Monty's place along with the DRSS group while we were having our annual get together fun hunt with our double rifles at the 4K ranch about 20 miles from Monty's school. Kevin Robertson has been there as well, and found this school to be a great place!

I'm sure the one listed by Steve is a great place as well, but before I'd go to one or the other I'd cerainly check them both out!

IMHO, such a course is totally unnecessary.

And there's no way I would spend $4,000 for it in any case!!!

All one needs to do is study the anatomy of his quarry, then practice enough from field positions, including off of shooting sticks, to make sure that his rifle will feed and function reliably and put the bullets where they're aimed.

One has to wonder how anyone ever managed to hit a game animal in the vitals before there were life sized pictures to practice shooting holes in beforehand!

Plenty of hard practice shooting at bulls-eyes has always worked for me . . .

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
IMHO, such a course is totally unnecessary.

And there's no way I would spend $4,000 for it in any case!!!

All one needs to do is study the anatomy of his quarry, then practice enough from field positions, including off of shooting sticks, to make sure that his rifle will feed and function reliably and put the bullets where they're aimed.

One has to wonder how anyone ever managed to hit a game animal in the vitals before there were life sized pictures to practice shooting holes in beforehand!

Plenty of hard practice shooting at bulls-eyes has always worked for me . . .

Me, too. I shoot several hundred round prior to a trip and I also memorize vital zones and watch videos. No problems, yet.

Four grand for a shooting course is a waste of money for those of us who aren't made from it.

The brain shot was not in the proper place on the initial ele brain shot. They fixed it pronto and explained it to all clients before they shot that station. The buff target area has also been moved around to a more correct position. It is the finest shooting course I personally have ever seen, and I have shot it with several (8 ) PH"s who agree. They had a bug or two to work out but that is all behind them." Can't please all of the people , all of the time... and some of the people any of the time," but it is a heck of a facility, course, and with a few adjustments a very accurate representation of where to hit various game at various angles. Just MHO after enjoying the finished course.
SIDE NOTE: Surestrike, please email me your personal email at davefulson@mac.com as I cannot pull up your home email.
Thanks

Dave,

I've got ask if the African game and hunting footage in the DVD came from you guys.... because it somehow looks like it did and I have to say, it's bloody fantastic!

Gunsite has both a Hunters Prep class as well as a Duble Rifle class. The Hunter Prep class is the same price as the Safari Shooting school but is three days long instead of two. Of the three I would rather go to Gunsite but if you are just talking about prepping for plains game a class probably isn't necessary

4 days all inclusive with professional instructor with 22 yrs experience. In a brand new facility.

SAAM looks impressive and well put together, but it is way too rich for my poor country blood.

My redneck SAAM course consists of (1) cheap paper targets, (2) legal pad pages with magic marker bullseyes, (3) jugs of water, (4) trees with bark skinned off, and (5) garbage "left" by my gate.

I'll book the first ten Redneck SAAM-ers on my exclusive course for the bargain price of $1000 each. BBQ 3x daily is included.

I believe the course of fire staged by the Bigbore association of South Africa is very appropriate, to the learning what is needed for safari hunting, no matter which type of rifle one uses! There is a film someplace of this exercise but I can't find it. Maybe someone here can post a link to that film.

I've been thinking about buying some land to put together a replica of that range set-up, for the DRSS. However this would be beneficial to shooters of all types of firearms, including handguns, and even bows.

Steve
Yes, we helped with the video segments of the classroom portion of the SAAM Safari course, a very important part of the overall training. The SAAM course is a lot more than banging away at targets, it was designed to cover the safari experience start to finish. The Fallon's incorporated the ideas and input of several working Professional Hunters from , I think 5 African countries on both the classroom and shooting course. They even asked our ( Craig, Ivan, Tim, and my) views. No doubt price is always a consideration on any purchase, and there are less expensive operations out there, but I have heard from several guys that have shot the others that the SAAM SAFARI course is the most comprehensive one on the market. The only way to practice ? No way, but a great investment easily paid for if it results in a unrecovered leopard, lion, sable etc...

Thanks Dave. I thought it had the stamp of your fine quality work on it.

I obviously haven't walked the course but having seen the DVD I reckon pretty much every hunter could benefit from attending..... and you can definitely see that it was all set up by guys who really knew what they were doing.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:

Plenty of hard practice shooting at bulls-eyes has always worked for me . . .

Unfortunately Michael - statistics just arent on your side in this regard. It is seen that the only real way to get good in the field is to shoot lots of animals in the field, under good instruction. If you cant do that then the next best thing is good instruction on a 'practical' simulated range. The majority of hunters dont get useful practical experience by shooting round targets, at their leisure on a regular rifle range (even if they do employ different field positions). IMO it is the little things that make a difference - like reloading and firing the second shot fast, when you are under pressure (real pressure) and the situation changing shape. It's those experiences that count in the field. It may well have worked for you but it doesnt work for the majority of hunters and that is what makes these course so valuable. Any one of my hunters who has done a course like this are far and away more 'functional' (for want of a better word) in the field.

Cheers
Matt

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:

Plenty of hard practice shooting at bulls-eyes has always worked for me . . .

Unfortunately Michael - statistics just arent on your side in this regard. It is seen that the only real way to get good in the field is to shoot lots of animals in the field, under good instruction. If you cant do that then the next best thing is good instruction on a 'practical' simulated range. The majority of hunters dont get useful practical experience by shooting round targets, at their leisure on a regular rifle range (even if they do employ different field positions). IMO it is the little things that make a difference - like reloading and firing the second shot fast, when you are under pressure (real pressure) and the situation changing shape. It's those experiences that count in the field. It may well have worked for you but it doesnt work for the majority of hunters and that is what makes these course so valuable. Any one of my hunters who has done a course like this are far and away more 'functional' (for want of a better word) in the field.

Cheers
Matt

Quite the contrary, Matt. Statistics are overwhelmingly on my side.

I would wager that 99%+ of all hunters in the field world wide have never taken such a course - and 100% of those in the not too distant past would never even have dreamed of such a thing.

Yet, we somehow manage very well without it, just as our predecessors managed very well without it over the centuries.

And to my way of thinking, hard practice includes rapid firing, rapid reloading and firing from field positions, including off of shooting sticks.

Hunting and shooting are not rocket surgery.

I don't mean to suggest that such a course would not be fun, or even worthwhile, just that it's totally unnecessary and wildly overpriced.

I'm with Matt on this one.

I reckon there's no doubt that the vast majority of game animals, esp dangerous game animals that are wounded or wounded and lost are that way simply because the hunter hasn't practiced enough and/or hasn't enough experience of real life African shooting situations...... and I have to say the reason most PHs watch the client instead of the target when at the range on day 1 is for that very reason.

As to cost. It looks to be a very good quality operation and quality always comes at a price but to me at least, the cost pales into insignificance when compared to the cost of trophy fees on what could otherwise be lost trophies.

Speaking of "bullseye only" practice, Tim and I , this very morning were scrubbing through some footage just arrived from one of our cameramen from Zim. He was filming a hunter who was after buffalo with a double gun he bought less than two years ago. He was very excited to try his new two pipe on buff, and explained ( several times to each of us, as well as his PH ) that he had been 'wearing out the barrels' in prep for his safari.
A good thing, but at a static target. On the video, after a nice stalk on a nice old bull, he makes a very accurate shoulder shot. That was good, because as the bull bucked his way across a twenty yard opening he tried to break his front trigger off trying to get in a second shot as his PH hissed " shoot man-SHOOT !" After the bull ran off, he remembered the rifle had two triggers. And we see it,that kind and other heat of the moment mishaps all the time . Matt had it right, training, under realistic in the field conditions is not the only, but sure as hell the best training a hunter can do. The scene reminded me of something Mike Tyson once said before a big fight. When told by the reporter that the guy he was fighting "had a plan" Tyson responded "yeah, they all got a plan right up till I punch 'em in the xxxing face !! " I am sure the hunter had a plan , but the stress of his first buff, under real conditions, changed the situation a wee bit. To his credit he owned up to the fact that his double gun practice was of the "load right barrel-BANG... load the left barrel BANG variety. Better than nothing, but not the best.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:

Plenty of hard practice shooting at bulls-eyes has always worked for me . . .

Unfortunately Michael - statistics just arent on your side in this regard. It is seen that the only real way to get good in the field is to shoot lots of animals in the field, under good instruction. If you cant do that then the next best thing is good instruction on a 'practical' simulated range. The majority of hunters dont get useful practical experience by shooting round targets, at their leisure on a regular rifle range (even if they do employ different field positions). IMO it is the little things that make a difference - like reloading and firing the second shot fast, when you are under pressure (real pressure) and the situation changing shape. It's those experiences that count in the field. It may well have worked for you but it doesnt work for the majority of hunters and that is what makes these course so valuable. Any one of my hunters who has done a course like this are far and away more 'functional' (for want of a better word) in the field.

Cheers
Matt

Quite the contrary, Matt. Statistics are overwhelmingly on my side.

I would wager that 99%+ of all hunters in the field world wide have never taken such a course - and 100% of those in the not too distant past would never even have dreamed of such a thing.

Yet, we somehow manage very well without it, just as our predecessors managed very well without it over the centuries.

And to my way of thinking, hard practice includes rapid firing, rapid reloading and firing from field positions, including off of shooting sticks.

Hunting and shooting are not rocket surgery.

I don't mean to suggest that such a course would not be fun, or even worthwhile, just that it's totally unnecessary and wildly overpriced.

I'm with you on this. And I don't for a second believe a four day course is going to turn an OK game shot into Dead-eye-Dick.

The course may be great, but I don't believe it is needed.

Real practice is hard to accomplish at most shooting ranges, but can be done if you find a secluded spot to do some varied training. I found a creek bed that is dry, or mostly dry for the better part of the year. I can shoot at varied targets at various ranges. I mix-up my paper target practice with rapid fire shooting of clay pigeon placed far apart to force me to move my feet, and shooting at moving targets using old basket balls rolled or punted across the ground.

I just don't see stationary cardboard cutouts(with or without the vital zones incorrectly shaded) as the be all end all of safari training.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:

Quite the contrary, Matt. Statistics are overwhelmingly on my side.

I would wager that 99%+ of all hunters in the field world wide have never taken such a course - and 100% of those in the not too distant past would never even have dreamed of such a thing.

Yet, we somehow manage very well without it, just as our predecessors managed very well without it over the centuries.

And to my way of thinking, hard practice includes rapid firing, rapid reloading and firing from field positions, including off of shooting sticks.

Hunting and shooting are not rocket surgery.

I don't mean to suggest that such a course would not be fun, or even worthwhile, just that it's totally unnecessary and wildly overpriced.

Well like I said before it works for you but I am talking about real life statistics mate - you survey any group of professional hunters on the abilities of their clients, on average, and if they are honest with you - you wont like the answer. I suspect that AR readers are not a good sample space for this because client members here seem to be a very dedicated bunch.. but I dont think that is so of your average travelling hunter. Just my opinion really though.

I hate to be the one to break it to you but the average hunter cant shoot properly, especially under pressure!!

Matt & Michael, you both are correct in what you're saying. Yes Michael, repeated practice in shooting can lead to perfection. Yes Matt, there's nothing better than actual safari shooting at live game to become a better shooter.

It's a combination of proper practice---and then experience at shooting live dangerous game animals on safari---that makes one a great shooter.

Anybody can make a perfect rifle shot during practice. Any putter can make a ten foot putt during practice. Any basketball player can sink a free throw shot in practice. But how successful will they be when it really counts?

The only way to answer that question is to get the experience under your belt during real game/safari conditions.

Ask any military sniper he'll tell ya the same thing. Practice is one thing. Battle is the real thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
Well like I said before it works for you but I am talking about real life statistics mate - you survey any group of professional hunters on the abilities of their clients, on average, and if they are honest with you - you wont like the answer.



I hate to be the one to break it to you but the average hunter cant shoot properly, especially under pressure!!

Funny how some things don't change.

Alexander Lake said exactly the same thing in his book 'Killers In Africa. - The Truth About Animals Lying In Wait & Hunters Lying In Print' that he wrote in the 1950s.

A GREAT book BTW.

I don't know if I am an average hunter or not,, I may be a little like "ledvm". I shoot some type of weapon almost everyday. I am fortunate to have my own land where I can shoot as I please. When you cross the bridge across the stream to head to the main barn you pass my pistol range with silouette targets. You know when you arrive that I am armed,, just not dangerous. The practice cours is a great idea for many. We had a bow shop within 20 mile of me that had a 3 "D" shooting video range that would score your shooting. You could program all types of hunts into it. I used it a great deal before several of my bow safaris and even though I thought I was pretty good before,, I was alot better afterward. We can fool ourselves if we want to, but the courses will help anyone,, wish I had the cash laying aroung to do it this summer,, Oh heck,, just got to go to Australia and practice on real targets,, take some instruction from the PH and have some fun,,

Gary Player [ the golfer ] once said," The more I practice, the luckier I become." Ten on the range for every one in the field.

It's not surprising that the avergae hunter is not very good with his/her weapon. They don't REALLY PRACTICE.

In my many trips to the local public shooting range (us urban folk) I am the only one shooting in a free standing position. I've been given strange looks when I sit on the bench (table) & try to simulate a real life shooting position.
I'll throw up the sticks & shoot some rounds.

Practice for most is on sandbags and even worse those sled things. The sleds are probably great for determining the true capabilities of your weapon/scope/cartridges but after that they should be left in the vehicle.