Folks - I wanted to share with you an e-mail message I received, just this morning. I think this exemplifies the power of the internet, and shows that sites like AR and others, are frequented by more than just us hunters. I do not know this lady, nor have I ever heard of her organization and I have no idea how she got me e-mail address? I'm honestly not sure of her intentions, or why she is asking me to provide additional info? Nor do I mean to insinuate her intentions are bad, I don't know. Obviously though, this shows that others are looking, watching and critiquing what we do as hunters/conservationists.

Please know, I am NOT trying to rehash previous events. Just providing some additional info that we all should be aware of. Its up to us to be good stewards of the game, if not, others will lobby to work against our hunting heritage.

EXACT MESSAGE I RECEIVED THIS MORNING:

Dear Aaron,

I have seen the pictures of the lion shot last year by Abie and there are many stories with regards to this outfitter and lions. Would you be willing to share the full story with me?

Kind regards

Rachel

Rachel McRobb
CEO South Luangwa Conservation Society
P.O Box 3, Mfuwe, Zambia
www.slcszambia.org
Mobile: +26 0979 180452
Landline: +260 6 246069

Aaron, I see nothing on their web site that involves actual hunting. Conservation only. Large donations (pay attention from who) and scouts on patrol (for what?). This site is transparent and her agenda is clear.
David

One of the Lodges apart of their Web sight "Kafunta" is run by an Aussie who also PHs so it might not be all bad news??
She seems very passionate in Anti Poaching particularly with the use of Snares.

The real point though is that people watch what we do, what we write, and what we post.

As hunters...we should strive to always put our best foot forward.

Very true Lane.

That is precisely why putting Abie and his client against the wall was very bad judgement.

Especially as they have done nothing that breaks any hunting laws.

No matter how many Good Feet we try to put anywhere about anything other people, including hunters, will make their own interpretations of what we are saying and what our ulterior motives are.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Very true Lane.

That is precisely why putting Abie and his client against the wall was very bad judgement.

Especially as they have done nothing that breaks any hunting laws.

Why does she want Aaron's story and not Abie's? Seems a poor way to collect info if accuracy is the goal. I am not saying Aaron would give false or innacurate info, but isn't it better to get it first hand?

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Very true Lane.

That is precisely why putting Abie and his client against the wall was very bad judgement.

Especially as they have done nothing that breaks any hunting laws.

Respectfully Saeed...the negativity that we were receiving off of this list from non AR people started with the initial posting of the hunt report. It was thrown in our (LCTF) faces as a "see it is happening again and y'all are not saying anything" statement from many we are trying work with.

I know we disagree but both Aaron and I (and many other AR members) stand by the decision to say something about a 2 yr old lion being taken. We got more positive feedback than negative.

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:

quote:

Originally posted by smarterthanu:
Why does she want Aaron's story and not Abie's? Seems a poor way to collect info if accuracy is the goal. I am not saying Aaron would give false or innacurate info, but isn't it better to get it first hand?

My money says; she has asked Abie herself prior.

Steve

Mine too!

Steve - Man, did you read the same thread I did? I hardly got a pass, and I'm certainly no celeb! Nothing said on here could sqaush my wennie, I'm just not easily offended.

As I mentioned above, I was not trying to rehash old stories, just giving info. But talk about not looking at it objectively. The email above shows that others are watching, paying attention, and willing to take action. Read her message, "there are many stories with regards to this outfitter and lions". I don't want anyone finding any reason to work against such a sensitive issue (lion hunting), or against this outfitter either. It can only have negative effects for all of us.

My concern is for conservation, proper lion management and proper lion hunting practices, nothing more. So that all of us will continue to have the privilege of hunting Africa's wildlife well into the future, you included. With the help of Lane, and a couple of other dedicated AR members, I have spent roughly 16 hrs in the past 3 days working on and refining a very important letter that will be personally presented next week, to heads of the USFWS, Secretary of the interior and the TZ - wildlife director, as it pertains to the possible listing of the lion to the ESA. If left un-protested, the ESA listing of the lion would devastate the hunting industry in Tanzania and Zambia in particular. Many operators would go out of business completely, leaving dozens of hunting blocks/GMA's without protection from human encroachment, corruption and uncontrolled poaching. You're buddies with Richard Bell-Cross too, ask him what happens to his business and Lunga Luswishi, if lion hunting is abolished. I already know the answer, as he and I have talked about it numerous times. This unfortunate circumstance would repeat itself many times throughout these 2 countries, guaranteed. In the end, the biggest losers would be the wildlife. Anyone who doesn't believe this would be the outcome, has their head buried in the sand!

Look man, I didn't shoot the 2 yr old lion, I only objected to it. I wasn't the one who felt like I got my wennie stepped on either! I just can't see why you are not looking at the totality of the circumstances, and doing more to support the cause of proper conservation practices? Lord knows, we could use your devotion to the LCTF and all of Africa's wildlife, rather than you using it all up, complaining about me on AR. The choice is yours, get in the game and participate, or sit on the sidelines playing arm-chair quarterback?

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Very true Lane.

That is precisely why putting Abie and his client against the wall was very bad judgement.

Especially as they have done nothing that breaks any hunting laws.

Respectfully Saeed...the negativity that we were receiving off of this list from non AR people started with the initial posting of the hunt report. It was thrown in our (LCTF) faces as a "see it is happening again and y'all are not saying anything" statement from many we are trying work with.

I know we disagree but both Aaron and I (and many other AR members) stand by the decision to say something about a 2 yr old lion being taken. We got more positive feedback than negative.

Lane,

I do agree with you that 2-3 year old lions should not be shot, I have no problems with that.

I understand in Tanzania this is being made into law, which is great as far as it goes.

This is NOT the law in the country where Abie was hunting. And what they did was a perfectly legal hunt.

And frankly, I really don't think anyone has any right to tell another hunter what he should and should not shoot AS LONG AS HE IS NOT BREAKING ANY LAWS!

What are we going to get into next?

I don't hunt with a bow.

Do you think I should start berating fellow hunters who do hunt with a bow?

I have no idea what this lady is looking for from Aaron. My guess is that she is does not like hunting, and saw Aaron's post, and wanted to exploit it.

quote:

My money says; she has asked Abie herself prior.

now that would be funny - i can just hear abbie talking to her.

quote:

I have seen the pictures of the lion shot last year by Abie and there are many stories with regards to this outfitter and lions. Would you be willing to share the full story with me?

She is on a fishing trip.

And having had quite a few "discussions" with anti-hunters, I can imagine how the "story" might end up.

quote:

I understand in Tanzania this is being made into law, which is great as far as it goes.

This is NOT the law in the country where Abie was hunting. And what they did was a perfectly legal hunt.

And frankly, I really don't think anyone has any right to tell another hunter what he should and should not shoot AS LONG AS HE IS NOT BREAKING ANY LAWS!

Saeed,
Respectfully sir, you are 100% correct no law was broken.

Neither I nor Aaron is trying to tell anyone what to do...but maybe...what they SHOULD consider.

We are trying to raise awareness that the shooting of these lions will come back to haunt us as it is being used to rally support against us.

And...there is very good evidence, if not proof, that shooting these young lions is harmful to the population.

Abie...as a steward of the wildlife as a PH...should know that shooting these youg lions is not good for the lion and not good for the hunting industry. At least this is my humble opinion.

Maybe it was handled poorly on our part. If so, I apologize. But something has to change or lion hunting will be lost and when lion hunting is lost so goes the wild lion. Just read your report on NO lion in Amboseli Park.

We as hunters and especially Professional Hunters must put our best foot forward for the lion even if lesser action is still with in the law...at least that is my opinion sir.

quote:

will come back to haunt us as it is being used to rally support against us.

I am not as worried about the anti-hunters directly as I am about the undecided general public for hunting in general. The antis already have their minds made up, and it is like a religion to them, their minds can not be changed. It is those who haven't made an opinion yet that we need to worry about, and educate about the benefits of hunting. Otherwise all they will hear is the anti's message that we are blood thirsty killers who only philosophy is kill 'em all, rack 'em and stack 'em.

Very Good response cable68.

The antis don't care if lion hunting or ANY hunting is beneficial for ANY animal species or population, they want it stopped completely and are going to do anything they can to see that come to pass.

quote:

Originally posted by cable68:

quote:

will come back to haunt us as it is being used to rally support against us.

I am not as worried about the anti-hunters directly as I am about the undecided general public for hunting in general. The antis already have their minds made up, and it is like a religion to them, their minds can not be changed. It is those who haven't made an opinion yet that we need to worry about, and educate about the benefits of hunting. Otherwise all they will hear is the anti's message that we are blood thirsty killers who only philosophy is kill 'em all, rack 'em and stack 'em.

And showing the general public that we are still willing to shoot 2 year old lions (irregardless of Zambian law) when good science has shown that it is bad for the population is not a good way to win public support.

Following good conservation techniques when we are not forced by law to do so will win us favor by the general public.

Crazy - You and cable68 are absolutely right! We are not necessarily trying to oppose the antis, their minds are made up. Its about leading by example, so the non-hunting and most importantly, the scientific community realizes we as hunters can and will actively lead the conservation efforts that are needed. This is the only way we can effectively garner their support, and convince others that the ESA listing for the lion, would be counter-productive to the lion's future.

Remember, this is not just about lion hunting. Its about the protection of much of Africa's wildlife as a whole!

I would simply NOT answer her email.
Put her in the spam file.

Just my opinion, John