If you can't afford the total cost of a certain
animal then you have to be happy with photo's
of such a beast, then hunt on for one that you
CAN afford.

The company that hosted the hunt and have that and other areas have some of the very best PHs, management and conservation programmes in Africa. The camps and overall areas are of the same quality and their prices unashamedly reflect that. They also only accept 21 day licence bookings......... if someone can afford the day rates etc, you can bet your life they can also afford the trophy fees without blinking.

I don't care about size because these bulls are great.
The worst thing is when a PH push a client to shoot something very big. In interest of the PH is probably money and satisfied client, in clients interest is good fun without bancrupcy.
When I have a client his wih is my command. If I can deliver it ,good, if I can't ,probably bad luck.
If he doesn't want to shoot I don't ask for the reason, it's his wish.
Just to explain.
2 years ago I sent 5 of my friends to Namibia and because of greedy PH's they spent 3-5 times more than they supposed. Anyway ,when they went back home the first thig they did was to take a credit loan to pay for everything. They werent happy at all because each PH knew what was their limit to spend.

quote:

2 years ago I sent 5 of my friends to Namibia and because of greedy PH's they spent 3-5 times more than they supposed. Anyway ,when they went back home the first thig they did was to take a credit loan to pay for everything. They werent happy at all because each PH knew what was their limit to spend.

The PH's may have known what the spending limit was, but the clients obviously didn't. Whose fault is it if you keep on banging away until the money runs out? In most instances, I'm sure the PH has no knowledge of the clients financial capabilities. If one can afford to pay for a hunt(any hunt), surely one has reached a certain level of financial maturity? I don't think the PH's can be blamed in this instance.

Furthermore, and in response to some of the postings above, in Zim clients don't pay more or less according to trophy size, on elephant or anything else. Or not that I've heard anyway. We have a very good system in that respect. You shoot a bull elephant, lion, buffalo or whatever, and then you pay the outfitters fixed rate for that trophy, period. If I were a client, I would hate to hunt with inches and pounds and dollars in mind.
Finally, taking into consideration the fact that we don't hunt 'dollars for pounds' here, I would be irritated if I was a PH who guided a guy onto a big ele and he turned it down. It goes without saying - of course the PH is involved in the hunt. The PH's I work with get 100% actively involved, and the client's highs and lows are their's too. In fact, clients should expect enthusiastic participation and involvement from all team members, because that is what they will get with any operation worth its salt. I would not enjoy hunting with people who were somehow removed from it all. What is it all about in any case?

Dave

Looking at the photos I'm guessing that the "100 pounder's" ivory is not actually much thinner than the "42 pounder's".

I think it's extraordinary length just gives that impression?

Sorry, haven't quite finished yet....

I can fully understand a guy turning down a 100 pounder when he has budgeted for a sixty pounder, in a country where they do hunt pounds for dollars. That's called responsibility.

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
my, my, my, what interesting comments I read here; those that said they wouldn´t shoot that elephant are much better men than I!

had I been the ph and ou, my client turned it down, I would subsequently recommend you to a phsychiatrist.

And remember that for a PH, guiding a client to a successful kill is the same as if he/she hunted the animal him/herself. It is not as "unnattached" an experience as Baxter put it. Hunting should be a team effort with all team members sharing in the emotions of a hunt, including the success` or failures.

I feel for Mehmet in this instance because only he knows how many miles and days he has spent in the bush with one aim - hunting a 100 pounder! Some go through a life time never finding one. He may never again

How much advertising value does a 100 pound elephant have for the PH and outfitter?

quote:

my, my, my, what interesting comments I read here; those that said they wouldn´t shoot that elephant are much better men than I!

had I been the ph and ou, my client turned it down, I would subsequently recommend you to a phsychiatrist.

And remember that for a PH, guiding a client to a successful kill is the same as if he/she hunted the animal him/herself. It is not as "unnattached" an experience as Baxter put it. Hunting should be a team effort with all team members sharing in the emotions of a hunt, including the success` or failures.

I feel for Mehmet in this instance because only he knows how many miles and days he has spent in the bush with one aim - hunting a 100 pounder

This proves my point. You feel for Mehmet because he has maybe spent his life looking for a 100 pounder. If that is not the priority of the client, then the PH is the opne detached from the 'team' not the hunter. If the assumption is that ANY 100 pounder will be shot, that's arrogant to think all hunters have the same goal.

In another way, if you hunt very hard for a 42 pounder and then another day you step out of the truck to shoot a 100 pounder, which has been the more rewarding experience and after all, isn;t that what we proclaim to be all about?

quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:

Furthermore, and in response to some of the postings above, in Zim clients don't pay more or less according to trophy size, on elephant or anything else. Or not that I've heard anyway. We have a very good system in that respect. You shoot a bull elephant, lion, buffalo or whatever, and then you pay the outfitters fixed rate for that trophy, period.
Dave

Dave,

I believe I have seen rates postings by some of the Zim ouitfits that do have elephant trophy fees based on pounds. Not common, but there and I throw the sheets away, so cannot quote. Also, there is variation in daily rate quotes in area where better ivory is expected (not assured). Net result is about the same.

quote:

Originally posted by AfricanHunter:

quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:

Furthermore, and in response to some of the postings above, in Zim clients don't pay more or less according to trophy size, on elephant or anything else. Or not that I've heard anyway. We have a very good system in that respect. You shoot a bull elephant, lion, buffalo or whatever, and then you pay the outfitters fixed rate for that trophy, period.
Dave

Dave,

I believe I have seen rates postings by some of the Zim ouitfits that do have elephant trophy fees based on pounds. Not common, but there and I throw the sheets away, so cannot quote.


African hunter, If that is truly the case, then it sucks.


Also, there is variation in daily rate quotes in area where better ivory is expected (not assured). Net result is about the same.

This is understandable and of course operators prices do vary, due to a number of factors. But at least you know 100% how much you are paying for your elephant bull when you sign on the dotted line, whether it be a 22 pounder or a 77 pounder.

Dave

Guys,

We presently work with 4 operators in Zim and the the total costs of elephant hunts vary about $10,000 from the lowest to the highest. This variation is dependent on a number of factors but mostly on cost of putting on the hunt, density of animals and reasonable expectations of ivory size. Also it is not common in Zim but there is a sliding scale of trophy fees paid depending on ivory weight offered by some operators. I believe MJimes went on such a hunt a couple of years ago.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:
Sorry, haven't quite finished yet....

I can fully understand a guy turning down a 100 pounder when he has budgeted for a sixty pounder, in a country where they do hunt pounds for dollars. That's called responsibility.

Dave

I agree with this 100% but I have to tell you that honest and good PH will always warne you before your limit is finished. I do and lot's of them are thankful.
As you said it's responsibility but it should be in both ways.