Tanzania, Selous, Ligombe camp, the client refused a 100 pounder





Arnaud Mermet PH of TAWISA in Tanzania just sent me these pictures.

Can You imagine that, the client guided by Francois Lyonnet and Arnaud Mermet refused to shoot this 100 pounder. Ivory of about 2.70m long ivory (106 inches).
The pissed PHs took this photo.
How would You react as a client and as a PH?

But client felt good with this 42 pounder (1.80m or 71 inches).





If You want this incredible elephant, move fast and get in touch with Arnaud on his website.
Arnaud MERMET

My first reaction would be 'ahhh fffffffaaarckit' but my longer term reaction would be depend on the situation. - I had a Father and Son pair of hunters a while ago and in their culture it would be very rude for the son to outdo the father in the trophy stakes. - As it's their money they're spending and their culture, who am I to argue. The son of this pair declined to take two or three really nice trohies because they were bigger than anything the father had shot. - Don't know how I'd have felt if it'd happened with an Elephant of that quality though...........

I would have shot it but from the picture I can't tell if the bull has 2 tusks. As the sliding scale for trophy fees is dependent on the weight of the heavier tusk perhaps the client was not willing to pay the top trophy fee for 1 tusk. Of course this is just a guess on my part.

Mark

What was the trophy fee?

JB,

Hope you don't mind, but I took the liberty of giving the pic a quick dose of Photoshop to see if I could change the levels etc and improve the pic a bit.

Steve

Feel free to look for any photoshop trick.

In fact I am afraid that Mark H. Young is really foxy, we are outsmarted.

Concerning the 42 pounder Arnaud is also a 6 footer jut to give the scale.

[QUOTE]

But client felt good with this 42 pounder (1.80m or 71 inches).





Wonderful ivory.

Dave

If I were the client, would be shooting first and worrying about how to pay later. If I were the PH, this is excellent advertising!

Maybe the client wanted to leave the real big guy in the breeding population for a while? Spread the good genes, and hope for more like him to stick around for some time? His 42 pounder is still quite nice. Thats my attitude once I finally draw a hard to get mule deer tag in my area...I don't want the biggest I see, I want the 2nd biggest

Shakari:

Do you think it is a 100 pounder?

The tusk doesn't seen to be 2.5 times bigger than the 42 pounder to me. Regardless, it is a damn nice bull.

The question is ...why?

Probably the money, but how can you pass something like this up?

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Shakari:

Do you think it is a 100 pounder?

The tusk doesn't seen to be 2.5 times bigger than the 42 pounder to me. Regardless, it is a damn nice bull.

Without seeing the animal in the flesh or having anything else in the picture to give perspective, I'd be reluctant to make a firm statement on that...........However, those tusks are verly long indeed and although we don't of course know how long the nerve is, I'd guess it probably wouldn't be far off the ton. (English for 100), and possibly over it.

Either way, he's actually the ideal animal to take (even without such fantastic tusks) - He's at the end of his life, has already passed his genes onto the next generation, and he'll be at the end of the wear of his last set of teeth.

Take a close look at how the bones are beginning to stick out, esp on his hips and skull......... almost certainly because his teeth are so buggered he can't chew enough food to keep him alive and so is already in a downward spiral of health.

Look also at the background and it looks to me as though that's riverine habitat behind him. - This is typical of very old tuskers to seek out these habitats because there should be more succulent and easily digestable food in those areas.

Personally, I'd take him in a heartbeat - and I would probably be doing him a favour, as death by starvation is no way for such a magnificent animal to check out.

I should add that if that partcular PH says he reckoned it made the ton, then I'd bet a pound to a pinch of the brown stuff, he'd be right!

JB

Not to start a pissing match but Adam looked at the pic and thinks the ele is carrying no more than 75 pounds per side as the ivory is very thin.

Mark

Holy! What's the African version of "buck fever"?

saw this boytjie in the kruger about a year ago he is still in good condition

ill take him any day

Thin or not - 75 or 100 lbs - so what! Those are awesome tusks and would look great in any trophy room. Shame the lad didn't have the wisdom to pull the trigger knowing he'd likely never see such a trophy again. That coupled with the fact that of the 2 Eles, the older run-down animal was from an ethical standpoint the one to take in the first place!

Get me the GPS#s on that one!

JW
JW

quote:

Originally posted by jbderunz:
the client refused a 100 pounder.....

The pissed PHs .......

How would You react as a client ....

I'd shoot anything the PH is picking up the tab for.

What is the difference in trophy fees between 42# and 100#?

This story is just a little difficult to um er...swallow...

The tusks that the hunter did collect sure look more than 42lbs to me. I'm not saying the weight is not correct, just that they look a lot heavier.

Bwana Bunduki,

Alot of hunters would and do turn down one tusked elephants. This guy might easily be looking at over $100,000 in total costs to shoot a one tusker. This might give most of us pause.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by pichon1:
The tusks that the hunter did collect sure look more than 42lbs to me. I'm not saying the weight is not correct, just that they look a lot heavier.

Though no guru, I agree.

I would love to shoot a 100 pounder, being realistic I would have to ask the PH how much the trophy fee is on him... And maybe settle for what I could afford...

Mike

Could that not possibly be a cow elephant? I've been trying to learn more about how to to differentiate the bulls from the cows by more than just the ivory. One thing I thought I had nailed was that a cow has a much sharper angle to the forehead. The one in this pic sure looks sharp to me, vs. a more rounded forehead of bull. If so, that might explain long thin ivory, and why client might have passed.

Anyone have similar thoughts, or am I all wrong?

Brian

Although, the ivory in those parts seems to be really thin....

I have a PH friend who has shot hundreds of elephant, personally and with clients. Having hunted little in western Zim, he found himself on a hunt in the Hwange area a couple seasons back. He turned down a bull which he initially judged to be in the 50's, and then when the bull was seen again changed his mind and gave his client the go ahead. When the short, fat ivory was extracted, suprise, suprise - 70+. Just goes to show how difficult ivory judgment actually is.

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:
[QUOTE]

But client felt good with this 42 pounder (1.80m or 71 inches).





Wonderful ivory.

Dave

Sure looks better than 42# to me, but nerv e length?

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
JB

Not to start a pissing match but Adam looked at the pic and thinks the ele is carrying no more than 75 pounds per side as the ivory is very thin.

Mark

Based on what I shot and saw in the Selous back in the '70's I would sure be on Adam's side on this one. Just to thin. Bodies a lot smaller the say a Hwange elephant.

quote:

Originally posted by AfricanHunter:

quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:
[QUOTE]

But client felt good with this 42 pounder (1.80m or 71 inches).





Wonderful ivory.

Dave

Sure looks better than 42# to me, but nerv e length?

In all honesty and I'm undoubtedly exposing my ignorance, I would have called this high fifties, sixty maybe...
But they are considerably thicker than the tusks on the 'hundred pounder' that was turned down, are they not?

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Bwana Bunduki,

Alot of hunters would and do turn down one tusked elephants. This guy might easily be looking at over $100,000 in total costs to shoot a one tusker. This might give most of us pause.

Mark

I have turned down single tusker before in the Sudan that Franc Coupe thought would go around 110#. One big tusk! Was rewarded later with a matched 94#, much better trophy. That was back in the days when an elephant permit was less $200.00 as I recall without looking it up.

There might be ethical reasons to take the old bull, but at $100,00.00, no way, I just be unetical at that point. To each his won at that point. If you have more money than you know what to do with, then go for it!

I agree that the pic does look like a cow elephants forehead

quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:

quote:

Originally posted by AfricanHunter:

quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:
[QUOTE]

But client felt good with this 42 pounder (1.80m or 71 inches).





Wonderful ivory.

Dave

Sure looks better than 42# to me, but nerv e length?

In all honesty and I'm undoubtedly exposing my ignorance, I would have called this high fifties, sixty maybe...
But they are considerably thicker than the tusks on the 'hundred pounder' that was turned down, are they not?

Dave

I have agree with you, much thicker to drive weight up.

quote:

Originally posted by retreever:
I would love to shoot a 100 pounder, being realistic I would have to ask the PH how much the trophy fee is on him... And maybe settle for what I could afford...

I agree with Mike.

quote:

Originally posted by wombat:
I agree that the pic does look like a cow elephants forehead

Not saying that you are wrong Mate, but if that's a cow then she is a world record for both length and weight.

How would you react as a client and a PH?

As a client, I would not shoot him. I have no interest in elephant. (If I was hunting elephant, and he had two tusks, I would drop him.)

If I were a PH, what would I care? He's the client. I get him in a position for a shot, then it's his call. Assuming he had the money to hunt elephant, I would be surprised if he didn't take the shot.

I always make it plain to a PH what I'm after. Every trip something else interesting jumps up and the PH asks if I want to take it. Every trip I turn something down. I've never had a PH react negatively in any way to my decision. If that were to occur I would stop the conversation, let him know who works for who, and if his hard-on didn't immediately disappear, I would get him replaced.

On a safari everyone has a clearly defined job. The PH's job is to find the game I've paid to hunt. My job is to decide whether to pull the trigger. The second part of that is that if I decide to shoot, I have a responsibility to shoot well.

in my opinion, it's no place for a PH to be bitchy about a client NOT shooting something. You have to wonder WHY is he pissed. It aint for the client, it's for the PH. If a certain animal just doesn;t float the client's boat, thats his prerogative.

_Baxter

my, my, my, what interesting comments I read here; those that said they wouldn´t shoot that elephant are much better men than I!

had I been the ph and ou, my client turned it down, I would subsequently recommend you to a phsychiatrist.

And remember that for a PH, guiding a client to a successful kill is the same as if he/she hunted the animal him/herself. It is not as "unnattached" an experience as Baxter put it. Hunting should be a team effort with all team members sharing in the emotions of a hunt, including the success` or failures.

I feel for Mehmet in this instance because only he knows how many miles and days he has spent in the bush with one aim - hunting a 100 pounder! Some go through a life time never finding one. He may never again

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
my, my, my, what interesting comments I read here; those that said they wouldn´t shoot that elephant are much better men than I!

had I been the ph and ou, my client turned it down, I would subsequently recommend you to a phsychiatrist.

And remember that for a PH, guiding a client to a successful kill is the same as if he/she hunted the animal him/herself. It is not as "unnattached" an experience as Baxter put it. Hunting should be a team effort with all team members sharing in the emotions of a hunt, including the success` or failures.

I feel for Mehmet in this instance because only he knows how many miles and days he has spent in the bush with one aim - hunting a 100 pounder! Some go through a life time never finding one. He may never again

Bloody good post and as usual, Mich hits the nail bang on the head.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
Hunting should be a team effort with all team members sharing in the emotions of a hunt, including the success` or failures.

Team effort, but only one customer, and only one guy in the "team" paying the bill.

The best time to shoot is when opportunity presents its self 7 out of ten times there is some factor that prevents us from taking it (cost,its not on my list.......)by the time you have sorted out these factors you wont find that trophy again.

I did a hunt in july where i showed the client 5 impala rams over 24" and two that was 26"in one day he declined them all because he has shot 2 before. i nearly shot it myself because i havent seen that in my life before.

with 2 days left he decided he wanted another impala and we didnt see one over 22"

but that is how it works in hunting

Take an opportunity if Diana presents it to you