Can anyone here tell any stories about the history or use of the 12 bore on African dangerous game? Is such a thing even heard of this day in age?

I read about tests done on 1043 grain 12GA hardened bullets fired at 1,080FPS, which out penetrated the solids fired from a .416 Rigby. The 1043gr bullets did this at a very low 10,000PSI, which is under standard 12GA operating pressure maximums.

This had me wondering about their use in Africa, using the correct bullets. There were individuals here making huge energy from it, though at much higher pressures.

While I know it wouldn't be as practical due to recoil, my mind simply wondered the history on such a thing or if people are actually using them.

I'd have no fear of using my Benelli on Buffalo. Some of the new slugs coupled with rifled barrels are very impressive. Mine shoots excellent groups at 100 yards using Winchester Supreme sabot slugs. Not advocating doing it, but I have little doubt about it trimming up a dagga boy. Just my opinion.
LDK

We were using 12 gauges loaded with BBs to fend off multiple charges we experienced from Egyptian and Spur-wing geese........worked great

I have personally never heard of anyone purposely shooting a 12ga at DG. But that said most of the people living on the frontier around the 1850 would have carried something along the lines of a 12ga Greener Dominion gun or similar. In these cases I have heard of them used successful in self defence against lion and leopard but never against DG as most people would have been using at best buck shot, normally No4 bird shot as they were always on the lookout for a meal from the sky. Driven bushbuck hunts however were common and both 12ga and 20ga shotguns were common. The longest shots I ever heard my grandfather speak of were in the region of 80 yards and usually using the choked barrel and aiming at the head. We still have quite a few of the mounts hanging in the old house on the farm, some really old ones from the turn of the centuary and some from about 50 years ago when my grandfather first hunted the Umkomaas valley with his Grandfather.
Dont know if that was of any help, but my short answer woul dbe that no, a 12ga even with modern slugs is probably not a good idea. Use the right tools for the job

If by "dangerous game" you mean spurwings and guinea fowl, well, yes, 12-gauges are used in Africa on dangerous game...

On a serious note, I know a number of PH's here in SA and in Zim and none of them will use the 12-gauge on dangerous game as a weapon of choice. Two of them were badly mauled by a male lion in the early 1980's in the Zambezi Valley when they followed it up with shotguns. Even with slugs, penetration into the enraged lion's tensed-up chest cavity was limited and they paid the price for it. Both use large-bores for that purpose to this day.

Having said that, my long-time gunsmith here in Pretoria killed a buffalo bull with a single Brenneke slug through the heart in the Luangwa Valley in the 1960's. As he tells the story, he was out hunting guinea fowl on the last day of the hunt and encountered the buffalo in a native vegetable garden. He stalked up to within 15 metres or so and shot the bull through the heart, ever so slightly from behind. It piled up within 50 metres.

Still, the best medicine for dangerous game of any size or shape is a good bullet, weighing at least 300 grains, at reasonable velocity. I love my shotguns, but they stay at home when the serious work has to be done. That's when the .375 or the .404 gets a work-out.

Up until 1988 the 12G was the most common weapon in the hands of rural tribesmen in Zimbabwe (in 88 the government sold 60,000 .303's to rural peasants), and as such, saw quite alot of improptu use.

With heavy buckshot or Brenneke slugs it worked well on lion taken unawares. With Breneke slugs it worked reasonably well on buffalo or elephant (heart/lung shots). Of cource, as soon as any of the above three noticed the "hunter" and got peeved, the 12G failed, and I got to scape up another body and write a "case closed" report for HQ.

Of cource, I doubt any rural peasant ever tried a shot beyond 20m and often half that range on any of the big three - but were limited to 2 3/4" shells. With modern 3" shells and loads it is probably in the same leage as a .45-70.

I know George Hoffman [of 416 Hoffman fame]
killed at least one cape buff with a Remington 12 ga sabot slug

while not DG - last year in zambia we caught up with poachers that were using a homemade 12 ga with birdshot. they had killed puku, warthogs, etc. they would have the shooter wait in the high grass while 2 others drove the animals past him. he would shoot them at less than 5 yds. incidently when we came on them and the game scout starting shooting at them, i believe that the best of the olympic runners would have been passed like they were standing still

The cape guns, and dominion (shot, and ball) guns were used a lot by the settlers in southern Africa way back, and I'm sure some large dangerous animals fell to those old cannons. That however doesn't address the fact that there were most likely some of theose settlers who never came home again, and many animals that ran off and died days later of a very painfull wound.

The cape guns were the most popular because of the combination of both rifle, and shotgun, giveing the owner the option of bird shot, buck shot, slug, or rifles bullets, depending on what he kicked out of the long grass!

The guns that were designed for big game, however, were the BORE RIFLES, which were nothing more that 20, 16, 12, and 10 ga RIFLES, most times doubles. These were not shotguns at all but rifles, and used brass cases, and cast bullets, of hardened lead aloys that worked very well for their day and time in history. That, however, wouldn't even come close to compareing to modern, or even old nitro express cartridges, and rifles used after the turn of the 20 century, and the developement of good cordite powder, and jacketed bullets, both soft, and solids. Those old BORE RIFLES were made heavy, and could stand far more pressures than the shotguns designed for birds, and deer with slugs, and even with their weight, they killed on both ends of the gun. Still, I'd bet there were a lot of wounded, and lost big game with those relics, not to mention the shortening of some farmer's lives as well!

No shotgun will ever compete well with a dedicated DGR, IMO!

Idindt use the 12 in africa but some years ago in a complete mess involving a client and another guide i have to kill a water buffalo with my browning silver camo ,i put 5 slugs on it ,through heart and lungs at a distance of 10 mts .Juan

I've long wondered what kind of loads the wizards could whip up if sabots were available to load .375 solids in a 12. Sure would give a lot of firepower in an unplugged pump.

What about Hemingway writing about following up leopard with a shottie and birdshot.

I am just finishing up a 12 ga sxs that I built on a vintage Lefever action, sleeving in 24" rifled tubes, that will shoot a 500gr sabot slug at 1500 fps...I plan to find out what it will and won't kill shortly.

I did witness a buffalo being shot with an 8 bore rifle but the shot placement was very poor and we never did find that buffalo. A second buff was taken with this rifle, fell to a neck shot.

In our youth, we used shotguns on duiker and reedbuck shooting for the back of the head on a "going away" shot.

I have taken an Eland with a 20 bore paradox gun shooting a 500 gr conical at a little over 1000 fps. This same gun will bust clays all day long.

I have also seen a leopard taken in full charge, chest height, with a 12 ga with 00 buck. Piled up at the hunter's feet. I have read many times that shot won't penetrate a leopard's skull but this time it did.

I recall reading that the late gunwriter/wingshooter Bob Brister took a cape buffalo with a 12ga slug.

Hi
Back in early 1970 i met a french old timer who had worked for a french company in CAF and Gabon and many other west african countries in 1920-1930 era. He told me that he had hunted all manners of game includng elephant with his sxs french made shotgun. whan i asked him which kind of ammo he used. he showed me a box of brenneke slug which was made for dangerous game hunting(STAHL KAP)slugs which were heavier than average slugs maybe (35_36) gram with steel cap on the tip of slugs. he said brenneke hade made these slugs especially for big Dg and werer loaded at velocity which could give enough enrgy to be legaly used for that kind of hunting.if anybody else in africa has heard or know better about these slugs i will be very happy to know. i saw those strange slugs and pictures of the old timer with plenty of games both smal and large.then it was not a myth.
regards
yes

this leopard was taken by me with a Ruger 12G O/U at 5 yards with SSG in the chest during a charge when he blasted through the dogs and came for me. dropped at my feet. that being said, a leopard is the ONLY DG i would hunt with a shotgun

Hey All,


" Remington 870 12 gauge, with a Hastings 20 inch Rifled Barrel w/Leupold 1-4x20mm Shotgun Scope "

or

Remington 870 12 gauge, with Smootbore & Open Metallic Sights.

Dixie Terminators .730 dia , 730 gr.
Dixie Tuskers, .727 dia , 600 gr.

http://www.dixieslugs.com/products.html

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=39309&page=1&pp=15

There's been a lot of " RE-INTEREST " in the " Heavy, Super Hardcast, Shotgun Slugs/Bullets, in a *** Rifled Barrel ***

PAPI

George Hoffman used a 12 ga on a buffalo because that is all he had at the time of the incident..He did swear by it on wounded Leopard...

I like a 12 ga. shotgun in Africa! for guine fowl and chuckers only!

dangerous game? I want a rifle, end of story!

I find it interesting to follow this thread while knowing that my African friends do this all the time. All it takes is a #6 birdshot…you melt it down and pour it into the mud where you have made an indent with your thumb the size of the 12 gauge bore. Re-load and off you go. If you are lucky you will have more than one shell. I think many of us have found rebar and bolts in the dangerous game we have taken, so since it did not grow there on its own it was probably put there at high speed.
The pygmies in Cameroun and Congo pull the lead out of the shells and just stuff grass wadding back in. They then file down a short “thrusting spear†to 12 gauge size and shoot elephants with it. From every one I have talked to you have to get to 3-4 yards and run like hell when you shoot. You also need 5-6 spears.
Now those are what I call real hunters…
Camshaft

Hey all,

Just an " Observation " since I've never hunted anywhere outside of the " USA " ..

Most of the replies make reference's to past experience's using off the shelf Ammo, that didn't perform as expected .. Based on this , they wouldn't advise anyone to try anything but a " LARGE BORE RIFLE ".. that creates a large wound channel & penetrates deeply !

Okay .. It makes sense to me !

So," HMMMM " let's think this one over a bit ..... !

Remington 12 ga. 870 with a " RIFLED BARREL & SCOPE " (0-100 yards)


Firing " LARGE DIAMETER HARDCAST BULLETS ".

Dixie Terminator : .730 / 730 gr. Bullet
Dixie Tusker : .727 / 600 gr. Bullet (old & Newer version )
Winchester : " 2 3/4 / 1 0z Slug "

" REMINGTON 870 LARGE BORE (.730-.727) PUMP ACTION RIFLE "

I'm not trying to critize anyones opinion.. However, this seems to be a very simple concept to visualize

" Penetration Test
Went to the John Linebaugh Seminar and penetration test this week end and saw some interesting results. A 416 Rigby 410 grain Federal Factory load round nose solid penetrated 46"....

The 416 Rigby Federal factory loaded 400 grain Nosler partion went 30" in the test.

NOW THE MOST DEVASTATING LOAD TESTED, the one that rocked the test box the most and the one that blew about a 4" diameter wound channel and penetrated 28" was a Dixie slug 730 grain at 1200 fps IMPRESSIVE to say the least.

I will be getting a spread sheet together and post more results in a week or so..as can be seen these big bore revolvers with less speed penetrate with the big rifles..........and the wound channel was larger......... "
http://www.dixieslugs.com/Testim.html

p.s: The Dixie " Tuskers " will also work in a smoothbore .. at closer ranges,i.e.: (0-25+ yards).

PAPI

Hey guys, I wasn't actually referring to 12GA factory ammo being used in Africa. I do feel anything available from the factory as 12GA ammo has very poor performance levels for DG found in Africa.

The Dixie ammo PAPI pointed out is better performing than most factory ammo. Yet, even then, it is apparent that the .416 Rigby still dominates that load as far as penetration is concerned. So that data provided on the 730gr Dixie load still won't look very appealing for DG hunters.

My questions concerned the 12GA firing the correct bullets, in which it would provide the adequate penetration desired. Bullets of much higher weight, in other words.

On the same penetration test at one of the Linebaugh big-bore seminars, like where others have been fired, the 1043 grain 12GA hardened bullets penetrated 2" further than the .416 Rigby solids, at 48" vs 46" average.

It seemed likely to me that the .73 caliber bullet, penetrating further than the .416, would also likely cause more damage to the animal, due to the hole being so much larger after it slows down. I'm curious to know your thoughts on these results.

The bullet mold looks like this:

quote:

Originally posted by yes:
Hi
Back in early 1970 i met a french old timer who had worked for a french company in CAF and Gabon and many other west african countries in 1920-1930 era. He told me that he had hunted all manners of game includng elephant with his sxs french made shotgun. whan i asked him which kind of ammo he used. he showed me a box of brenneke slug which was made for dangerous game hunting(STAHL KAP)slugs which were heavier than average slugs maybe (35_36) gram with steel cap on the tip of slugs. he said brenneke hade made these slugs especially for big Dg and werer loaded at velocity which could give enough enrgy to be legaly used for that kind of hunting.if anybody else in africa has heard or know better about these slugs i will be very happy to know. i saw those strange slugs and pictures of the old timer with plenty of games both smal and large.then it was not a myth.
regards
yes

Wasn't he Dr CORSON?

On pages 68 & 69 of my book Westley Richards Guns and Rifles it shows the "Super - Magnum Elplora" Ball and Shot Gun 12 bore. It states that the muxxle velocity is 1,500 fps, the energy is 3,643 ft. pounds and the L.T. Patent Pointed Brass Capped bullet is 730 grains.
I own this beautiful drop lock side by side and the only thing I have shot to date is birds. Page 69 shows a photo of a very dead tiger and letter from the Viceroy of India.
With a bullet you could make today I am not so sure you could not take out a buff.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:

I like a 12 ga. shotgun in Africa! for guine fowl and chuckers only!

dangerous game? I want a rifle, end of story!

Oh come Ray! You'd hunt buffalo with a sling shot and a big rock if that's all you had! You're not a man to let measley shotgun stand in the way of a good buffalo hunt and you know it!

quote:

Originally posted by PAPI:
Hey all,

Just an " Observation " since I've never hunted anywhere outside of the " USA " ..

Most of the replies make reference's to past experience's using off the shelf Ammo, that didn't perform as expected .. Based on this , they wouldn't advise anyone to try anything but a " LARGE BORE RIFLE ".. that creates a large wound channel & penetrates deeply !

Okay .. It makes sense to me !

So," HMMMM " let's think this one over a bit ..... !

Remington 12 ga. 870 with a " RIFLED BARREL & SCOPE " (0-100 yards)


Firing " LARGE DIAMETER HARDCAST BULLETS ".

Dixie Terminator : .730 / 730 gr. Bullet
Dixie Tusker : .727 / 600 gr. Bullet (old & Newer version )
Winchester : " 2 3/4 / 1 0z Slug "

" REMINGTON 870 LARGE BORE (.730-.727) PUMP ACTION RIFLE "

I'm not trying to critize anyones opinion.. However, this seems to be a very simple concept to visualize

" Penetration Test
Went to the John Linebaugh Seminar and penetration test this week end and saw some interesting results. A 416 Rigby 410 grain Federal Factory load round nose solid penetrated 46"....

The 416 Rigby Federal factory loaded 400 grain Nosler partion went 30" in the test.

NOW THE MOST DEVASTATING LOAD TESTED, the one that rocked the test box the most and the one that blew about a 4" diameter wound channel and penetrated 28" was a Dixie slug 730 grain at 1200 fps IMPRESSIVE to say the least.

I will be getting a spread sheet together and post more results in a week or so..as can be seen these big bore revolvers with less speed penetrate with the big rifles..........and the wound channel was larger......... "
http://www.dixieslugs.com/Testim.html

p.s: The Dixie " Tuskers " will also work in a smoothbore .. at closer ranges,i.e.: (0-25+ yards).

PAPI

PAPI,

You supply the shotgun and pay the fee's I'll be glad to go give it a try.

Can anyone comment on the 1043gr hardened 12GA bullets? I noticed a lot of people won't even acknowledge the performance capable from a 12GA, even when it is outperforming the .416 Rigby here.

In my opinion, it has to outpenetrate to outperform on DG. Just because Dixie says "it rocked the box" does not mean much in my eyes. So I personally don't think their ammo is anything to wave a stick at. It's just hardened lead bullets which aren't very heavy for 12GA. But when the weight increases to over 1000gr, at low velocities yielding less fluid shock and initial drag, the momentum seems to take it places the sectional density would confuse you to believe.

Hey Surestrike,

Better yet !!
" YOU PAY FOR ALL OF THE EXPENSE's " , I'll bring the Shotgun & mail you an instructional " How it's done " Video ..

My recent " Divorce " , left me with my guns, car & what's left of my " Sanity " ..

M_Marshall,
Here's a thread of a person (hubel458) that has been doing exactly what you are suggesting...

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=75206

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4711043/m/848109883

The " Shotgun From Hell " project!

FYI: I've owned a " 45/70 " for over twenty years.. Despite all of the " NAY SAYERS " comments over the " OLD OBSOLETE CARTRIDGE " i.e; not good for much,it can't compete with the " REAL MANS 458 MAGNUMS ",not a real " DG " cartridge,etc.

And then, much to everyones surprise (Nay sayers) .. a " SUPERHUMAN ENTITY " from another planet.. " JEDI WARRIOR " type.. successfully travels to " AFRICA " and hunts the " BIG 5 " with that " OLD OBSOLETE 45/70 CARTRIDGE " .. ! (How dare he,impossible!!)


" Vince Lupo is the first to take the African Big Five or Six with the 45-70 lever-gun."
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/lupoindex.asp

GEEE ! I wonder, could he (Mr. Vince Lupo) be the only man ( SUPERHUMAN ) on this planet , that could of completed the same feat , using my " OLD OBSOLETE,REMINGTON 870 12. BORE PUMP ACTION RIFLE " , loaded with " DIXIE BULLETS "


PAPI

Hey all,

Just a little " HISTORY LESSON 101 "

QUOTE:
" We (DIXIE) have re-discovered what the Brits did a 100 years ago with shotgun bores.....

I find it very interesting that they settled on a 12 bore 730" - 730 gr hard solid at 1000'/" when using blackpowder...

Then when smokeless Cordite came along, they bumped the velocity up to 1200'/"...

There were some 12 bore loads, in the 600 gr higher velocity range that H&H had around 1893 for fully rifled barrels..

H&H - .725" - 600 gr. - 1584'/" - 3356 ft lbs Energy.

We re-did that load in 12 bore with a 600 gr bullet to an honest 1500'/" from a 20" barrel.. (DIXIE TUSKERS)

And it's a real killer on both ends (tough with any gun under about 8 pounds).
Regards, James "


WOW.... History re-invented

PAPI

quote:

Originally posted by PAPI:
Hey all,

Just a little " HISTORY LESSON 101 "

QUOTE:
" We (DIXIE) have re-discovered what the Brits did a 100 years ago with shotgun bores.....

I find it very interesting that they settled on a 12 bore 730" - 730 gr hard solid at 1000'/" when using blackpowder...

Then when smokeless Cordite came along, they bumped the velocity up to 1200'/"...

There were some 12 bore loads, in the 600 gr higher velocity range that H&H had around 1893 for fully rifled barrels..

H&H - .725" - 600 gr. - 1584'/" - 3356 ft lbs Energy.

We re-did that load in 12 bore with a 600 gr bullet to an honest 1500'/" from a 20" barrel.. (DIXIE TUSKERS)

And it's a real killer on both ends (tough with any gun under about 8 pounds).
Regards, James "


WOW.... History re-invented

PAPI

The above is absolutely true! And in their day these bore guns followed the "bigger hammer" theory of stopping power, and , again, for it's time it worked quite well. Once the fully rifled barrels came on line, and the early smokeless powder was used the result was better success, in both stopping, and in quicker kills.

The unfortunate draw back to "HISTORY" ,told origenally by the guys useing these things, as is the case sometimes today, these guys didn't bother to tell everyone about the failiers they experienced, only the successes.

To show how ill concieved those old guns were for the pachyderm animals like Cape Buffalo, Rhino, and elephant, one only has to look at the very high praise posted all over Africa, when the 450NE 3 1/4" cartridge came out, amoung the other .450 bore rifles. These things were absolute TINY, almost dart guns by comparison,but were a God send to the Ele hunters, who lost far less animals to wounds, and escapes.

You have to understand, that the ele hunter of the bore gun days had to hunt for mounths on end, walking where they went carrying everything on their backs. A wounded ele was almost never followed more than a few hundred yds, because the ones they had downed needed to be processed, sometimes very quickly, because these guys most times were poachers, hunting with out permits. To follow up a wounded ele for ten miles as we are required to do today, would have been unheard of in those days! SO!, If they didn't fall in a short distance, they were simply abandoned! But the talk in the safari clubs in town was only about the ones they brought ivory in form. The lost ones were never mentioned.

So what I'm saying is, the glowing success of those old bore guns must be taken with a grain of salt, and though these old bore guns are fun to hunt with, they are not nearly as effective, and history leads you to believe.

I would say not more than 5% of the bore guns owned today are used to hunt anything more dangerous that a moose, and only rarely then. The other 95% are either used for punching paper, or simply in collections! There is a reason for that! There are, even very small caliber rifles today, that are so much more suitable for hunting dangerous game, both in North America,(only the brown bears of costal Alaska, and they are a lot softer than any of the big three in Africa) and in Africa.

I've owned a few of the bore "RIFLES", and a couple of the Paradox guns, in several bore sizes, and as I said above, they are an absolute blast(no pun intended)to hunt deer, and wild hogs with. There is something about those BIG brass shells, with their hard cast bullets dropping into the chambers of a big double bore rifle,that is satisfying, to the lover of old firearms from days gone by!

Hi,

I personally agree with everything you stated !! In particular ..

quote:

Once the fully rifled barrels came on line, and the early smokeless powder was used the result was better success, in both stopping, and in quicker kills.....

I would say not more than 5% of the bore guns owned today are used to hunt anything more dangerous that a moose, and only rarely then. The other 95% are either used for punching paper, or simply in collections!....

However, as " I " previously stated :

quote:

There's been a lot of " RE-INTEREST " in the " Heavy, Super Hardcast, Shotgun Slugs/Bullets, in a *** Rifled Barrel ***

Dixie appears to be providing the average Joe (Me), an affordable option (Remintgton 870 Large Bore,Pump Action Rifle )the opportunity of Hunting with a " LARGE BORE REPEATING RIFLE ", without the high cost of purchasing a " Collectable Paradox Gun/Double Barrel Rifle ", or a " CUSTOM BOLT ACTION RIFLE "(12 ga. From Hell).

Now, the major difference today are ; Modern Designed " 12 Bore Bullets ", i.e : Extra Hard Cast Bullets, that will outperform & penetrate better, than the " Failed Experiences " of the past..

The original post was " 12GA in Africa ? ".
It's already been " Factually Documented in the past ",with mixed results !
Can it be done today or practical ..?

Well, I think " DIXIE " has made a " GOOD FAITH EFFORT " and provided ample documentation, for someone considering the " 12Ga./Bore ", as a " VIABLE " low investment option today!(Readily availble,Loaded Ammo).

We won't know for sure how much better it will be ? ..until it's been done & documented!

PAPI

George Hoffman used a Remington M870 12ga for folowing up leopard. A .416 Hoffman for everything else.

Guys I have been doing alot of work on the 12GaFH( I invented it) and even in its short form 3" with 1000 gr or more Brass FN bullets it will penetrate over 6ft of solid oak. In fact it makes a very nice log splitter. In the Full case, I've seen over 2400fps with the same bullet. There is a pic of my Borchardt gun on the 12GaFH thread on the Big Bores section. FWIW the short version can be fired in a number of strong single shot actions.-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
...even in its short form 3" with 1000 gr or more Brass FN bullets it will penetrate over 6ft of solid oak. In fact it makes a very nice log splitter. -Rob

That's simply incredible to say the least.

Hey Robgunbuilder,

Thanks for pitching in... !

I only mentioned " hubel458 ", since he was specifically " using/testing " the Dixie Bullets !!

PAPI

The guys who track Leopard in Botswana use 3" Mag out of a 12 ga as the firearm of choice. This is on un-wounded Leopard. Can't remember the load of choice ... 00 maybe?

They will almost always charge at the end of that track. Shotgun is the best choice in that situation, not just adequate, it is the firearm of choice.

I used a Browning 12 Ga. Citori on a Black Mamba in Zim. Seemed like dangerous game at the time.
Rich Elliott

quote:

Originally posted by Rich Elliott:
I used a Browning 12 Ga. Citori on a Black Mamba in Zim. Seemed like dangerous game at the time.
Rich Elliott

HA! Did he charge? What grain Shot..Bonded or FMJ BB's?

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
The guys who track Leopard in Botswana use 3" Mag out of a 12 ga as the firearm of choice. This is on un-wounded Leopard. Can't remember the load of choice ... 00 maybe?

They will almost always charge at the end of that track. Shotgun is the best choice in that situation, not just adequate, it is the firearm of choice.

that was my experience there. i was damn glad i had 6-8 inch spread of SSG 15 feet past the muzzle. leopard caught it in the lower neck and upper chest and it was lights out.

quote:

Originally posted by SAFARIKID:

quote:

Originally posted by Rich Elliott:
I used a Browning 12 Ga. Citori on a Black Mamba in Zim. Seemed like dangerous game at the time.
Rich Elliott

HA! Did he charge? What grain Shot..Bonded or FMJ BB's?

It was a cool, early morning encounter and he was merely sunning himself. # 6's as I recall.
Hardened lead like those guys use in their
.45-70's
Rich Elliott