quote:

I realize this is probably up to who is doing the quoting but I never started thinking about it till recently. Perhaps I was assuming one thing while reading another.

When a statement is made that X area or X outfitter is 90% successful on a particular species, say Leopard....

Does that mean that 90% of the allotted quota is shot regardless of how many hunters it takes to do it. Or does it mean 90% of the hunters going there are successful?

It seems there could be a huge difference between the two.

quote:

Originally posted by Adrian Parham:
One cannot help conjuring up images of outfitters at the annual awards ceremony laughing among themselves about quota being sold multiple times.

What might the record be for reselling a leopard tag? How about a lion tag? Yes, I know clients are terrible shots and have no eye for game in the bush but sometimes the leopard or lion are simply not there in numbers supporting the issuance of a tag, or in good conscience selling the hunt. How many times has the multiple selling of cat licenses actually made or saved the season for an outfitter?

Obviously, in the long term we choose (hopefully) an outfitter based on his body of work or word of mouth, or thru posts on AR. It is AR that I have found to be of immense value to to the travelling hunter regardless of the experience level. Hunt reports are especially valuable IMO. Thanks Saeed!!

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Jim,

If I state in an ad that expected success rates should be xx% I mean the client's chances of succes are xx% based on the best information I have available. To state that success rates are xx% based on the number of animals killed of a particular species from the allowable quota is meaningless and deceptive.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
As an "off shoot" of this topic, as hunters, what do you think about an outfitter that sells more hunts than he has tags, and I am speaking in a proactive manner, i.e. PH-X has 1 lion tag and he sells 4 lion hunts before the first hunt takes place?

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
As an "off shoot" of this topic, as hunters, what do you think about an outfitter that sells more hunts than he has tags, and I am speaking in a proactive manner, i.e. PH-X has 1 lion tag and he sells 4 lion hunts before the first hunt takes place?

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:
"An Outfitter" in the Selous, sells 21 day safaris. They all come with a sable in your "full" bag. Hunter xx shows up and is told there are no Sable left with your lion hunting adventure WTF? Somebodies got some splannin to do.

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Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:
"An Outfitter" in the Selous, sells 21 day safaris. They all come with a sable in your "full" bag. Hunter xx shows up and is told there are no Sable left with your lion hunting adventure WTF? Somebodies got some splannin to do.

Andrew, to his credit, asked me if I wanted Roan during my Lion/Leopard. I suppose he is carefully planning his quota. He certainly does things the right way in my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
What if PH-X is up front with those booking the 4 hunts to the extent that he tells them chance of success is around 30%?

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Originally posted by Nganga:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:
"An Outfitter" in the Selous, sells 21 day safaris. They all come with a sable in your "full" bag. Hunter xx shows up and is told there are no Sable left with your lion hunting adventure WTF? Somebodies got some splannin to do.

Andrew, to his credit, asked me if I wanted Roan during my Lion/Leopard. I suppose he is carefully planning his quota. He certainly does things the right way in my opinion.

I would jump on that roan opportunity,

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
As an "off shoot" of this topic, as hunters, what do you think about an outfitter that sells more hunts than he has tags, and I am speaking in a proactive manner, i.e. PH-X has 1 lion tag and he sells 4 lion hunts before the first hunt takes place?

quote:

As an "off shoot" of this topic, as hunters, what do you think about an outfitter that sells more hunts than he has tags, and I am speaking in a proactive manner, i.e. PH-X has 1 lion tag and he sells 4 lion hunts before the first hunt takes place?

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Overselling quota can and does happen. It happens in TZ with regularity.

While I have no problem with reselling quota that wasn't used, overselling quota is a major problem to me. I want no part of one of those hunts .

Regarding success ratio, you owe it to yourself to inquire exactly how it was calculate. Do not assume you know.

quote:

When checking references, how about asking for contact details of every single client of the previous season or current time of booking.

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
As an "off shoot" of this topic, as hunters, what do you think about an outfitter that sells more hunts than he has tags, and I am speaking in a proactive manner, i.e. PH-X has 1 lion tag and he sells 4 lion hunts before the first hunt takes place?

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
agreed, yet people continue to book, even after PH-X is fairly open about this practice.

quote:

Why don't you just tell us who you are speaking of then all can check it out to see if you allegations are correct.

Mark may be able to verify or disprove and Fairgame might know them too.

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As an "off shoot" of this topic, as hunters, what do you think about an outfitter that sells more hunts than he has tags, and I am speaking in a proactive manner, i.e. PH-X has 1 lion tag and he sells 4 lion hunts before the first hunt takes place?

quote:

What if PH-X is up front with those booking the 4 hunts to the extent that he tells them chance of success is around 30%?

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You may be surprised that some of the more "prestigious" outfitters do this every season, particularly on the animals that have very limited quota and historically low success rate.

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
As an "off shoot" of this topic, as hunters, what do you think about an outfitter that sells more hunts than he has tags, and I am speaking in a proactive manner, i.e. PH-X has 1 lion tag and he sells 4 lion hunts before the first hunt takes place?


This is fraud.

quote:

agreed, yet people continue to book, even after PH-X is fairly open about this practice.

quote:

quote:
Why don't you just tell us who you are speaking of then all can check it out to see if you allegations are correct.

Mark may be able to verify or disprove and Fairgame might know them too.

Why make an allegation against a specific individual if you do not know it is true?

quote:

Why make an allegation against a specific individual if you do not know it is true?

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If I had wanted to include a name, would I have referred to the person I was thinking as PH-X? Don't be a rabblerouser Lane, this isn't the beauty parlor.

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personally dislike "shot opportunity" % most of all...
When I once booked a "discounted because of cancellation" hunt in TAN, Gerenuk and Buffalo were on it, after I had committed and bought non-refundable airfare, I was told Gerenuk were no longer available. Two days after camp arrival, my PH got a call advising Buffalo were no longer available....I had a great hunt and took some great animals only available in TAN but I was not particularly pleased.....esp after seeing at least three record book Gerenuks and a lone Buff at 60yds estimated to be at least 45".....

quote:

Brad,

If you got something to say just spit it out...

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:

quote:

Brad,

If you got something to say just spit it out...

I did, perhaps you should heed your own advice.