What do you folks think of this lion. The picture was sent to me recently which was represented to be a lion that was "passed on" for a reason not related. The client later killed an old grizzled fellow about 10 days later, btw. I've got a picture of it, but it has the client, too, and I don't have permission to publish it, but trust me, it is a wonderful old dude!

I'm not an expert on lions and am curious. What do our experts think about the age and doesn't this guy look a bit thin? The concession is in Zimbabwe, non-fenced, famous for having reputable operaters (in other words, the lion is wild). I've been on the concession three times and have seen lions during daylight hours each time, mature males usually having good manes (but not this good!). As another factor, plains game are abundent on the concession but buffalo are transient this time of year (so could that be a reason for the ribs showing?)

Your thoughts on age and conditions, please.

Well, I personally would have fattened him up with 400 grains of soft point. Yes, very skinney. Could be suffering from a multitude of issues. Intestinal parasite, old age, or inability to hunt effectively may explain his worn look. Hunting can be hard on a lone male with no pride to depend on.
Regardless, a very tough lion to pass. I would have shot him without any hesitation.

I don't know lions, I do know animals.

Taking this one would be a GOOD THING for both of you.

Sometimes the kind thing to do is putting an animal down. I have lost track of how many old cows and horses I have had to put down.

this animal is emaciated,and has lost a lot of muscle mass, this is not a healthy animal.

SSR

I think he is a great lion. He's just old. I am shocked that the hunter passed on him.

Of course the only way to be positive is through testing but it could well be TB.

The KNP for example has had TB problems for a number of years & I'm told it's not uncommon in the buff and it's then passed onto the lions when they eat them.

The good news is the more recent studies seem to suggest that many of these animals are slowly developing a resistance to the disease.

Clearly in very poor condition. Does not look like a young lion either but, being so terribly thin may mask his actual age.

Definitely something wrong with this old boy. As stated, he should be taken/put down. He is a good Lion to take.

Great trophy.

potential maneater

At $40-$50K for a hunt, I might have reservations as the client did. He doesn't appear to be a very young lion but is definitely in very poor health. You'd be doing it a favor to put him out of his misery and possibly avoid future issues if it decided to turn to easier prey like livestock\humans.

quote:

I don't know lions, I do know animals.

Taking this one would be a GOOD THING for both of you.

Sometimes the kind thing to do is putting an animal down. I have lost track of how many old cows and horses I have had to put down.

this animal is emaciated,and has lost a lot of muscle mass, this is not a healthy animal.

Don't really know a damn thing about wild free range lions, but I do agree with Cross L. In looking at a few representatives of other spoecies over thre years, this is not a healthy animal and a bullet would be better than hyena's.

this lion nearing death would be a greater trophy than the biggest one in the world healthy

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Of course the only way to be positive is through testing but it could well be TB.

The KNP for example has had TB problems for a number of years & I'm told it's not uncommon in the buff and it's then passed onto the lions when they eat them.

The good news is the more recent studies seem to suggest that many of these animals are slowly developing a resistance to the disease.

Was fortunate enough to dart a lion for a study on bovine TB. The lion ended up testing positive, but was in PRIME condition which was good news.

He is a clever old lion maintains his weight and does not get shot

He is the winner of the Biggest Looser

Ok, nobody here could see his teeth. He could be a Great Grand-Pa lion. No One can tell how old he is from a pict. By his body and head size he looks old, but who knows till he teeth are looked at.

While the lion looks to be in rough shape.

The picture quality is wanting.

It appears that the lion has an injury.

While the lion is a candidate for being put out of his misery.

I would would not shot this lion while on a lion hunt. While a nice trophy, your cape would be for a head mount only. Is that what you want?

Interesting thoughts, but maybe one of the lion experts could chime in.

I thought a lion if he was in poor condition, such as an injury or not eating well lost his mane, and that this was one of the first things that happens in a bad situation for the cat?

Certainly looks like a shooter to me though.

quote:

Originally posted by hunteratheart:
At $40-$50K for a hunt, I might have reservations as the client did. He doesn't appear to be a very young lion but is definitely in very poor health. You'd be doing it a favor to put him out of his misery and possibly avoid future issues if it decided to turn to easier prey like livestock\humans.

Please let me know where I can buy lion hunts for 40K.

I would whack that thing in a second.

To me looks like the perfect TROPHY! Seems to have all the characteristics of an older Lion such as Mane filled behind ears, broad nose and lots of scarring of the head.
Body condition definetly shows signs of distress of some kind, maybe malnutrition, maybe an old wound or disease but why does this make him any lesser of a trophy? To me personally makes him even more desireable.

Bwana 338 why would the cape be for a head mount only???
Limited knowledge of Taxidermy but would think if so desired full body mount would soon put the pounds back on lost thru Saeeds special LION BIGGEST LOSER reality Show

Please please let me find him next year
Scott

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana338:
While the lion looks to be in rough shape.

The picture quality is wanting.

It appears that the lion has an injury.

While the lion is a candidate for being put out of his misery.

I would would not shot this lion while on a lion hunt. While a nice trophy, your cape would be for a head mount only. Is that what you want?

The opposite side of the coin: Were he well groomed and filled in whereby the knuckles of his spine and ribs were not to be visible I'll bet 10:1 that he would be classed as a lion in his prime and undoubtedly a pride holder - and don't forget the 6+ year factor!

P.S. The taxidermist can make him look whichever way you want.

quote:

Originally posted by SBT:
I think he is a great lion. He's just old. I am shocked that the hunter passed on him.

SBT you should see the one we shot ""

BURKINA FASO

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by hunteratheart:
At $40-$50K for a hunt, I might have reservations as the client did. He doesn't appear to be a very young lion but is definitely in very poor health. You'd be doing it a favor to put him out of his misery and possibly avoid future issues if it decided to turn to easier prey like livestock\humans.

Please let me know where I can buy lion hunts for 40K.

I would whack that thing in a second.

My uninformed speculations:

1. This was not the first lion on a game camera and another, better lion (or lions) had been seen or captured on camera?

2. No night hunting is allowed in the concession and that somehow was in the matrix?

3. It was early in the hunt and the concession constantly produced older, better lions.

4. Life of a "single" lion is really tough and the P.H. thought that this fellow was "betwixt" being a member of a pride and getting his own, therefore having a hard time supporting himself.... and a quarter or two of zebra didn't hurt him much. I'd like to see a picture of the fellow after a week or two on the baits?

5. Alls well that ends well. The client got a bigger, older lion. Skinny Boy got some well needed protein and life and death in Africa goes on?

quote:

Originally posted by ross j:

quote:

Originally posted by SBT:
I think he is a great lion. He's just old. I am shocked that the hunter passed on him.

SBT you should see the one we shot ""

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
this lion nearing death would be a greater trophy than the biggest one in the world healthy

+1

Given how few there are now days, I don't know if I would take a fit but breedable lion. Thats if I had the money, it sucks being poor

JD

I would have shot it.

An ancient warrior past his prime or he has a mouth with broken teeth or an injury.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:

4. Life of a "single" lion is really tough and the P.H. thought that this fellow was "betwixmt" being a member of a pride and getting his own, therefore having a hard time supporting himself.... and a quarter or two of zebra didn't hurt him much. I'd like to see a picture of the fellow after a week or two on the baits?

'

IF the above were the case, I would pass too....but only in this case. If the PH thought the pictured lion was well past his prime and on his way out, I would pass on the biggest, fattest, healthiest, blackest maned cat in the area and SHOOT THIS ONE! To pass on the most "ecologically responsible" lion to take for the sake of what are really relatively minor cosmetic issues seems a bit selfish and irresponsible to me. Better to make a rug out of this guy and for the next 40 years think about how you did right by the species.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
The picture was sent to me recently which was represented to be a lion that was "passed on" for a reason not related.

Maybe he was scared the picture and hunt report would make it to AR and he would be tarred and feathered for shooting a "young" lion

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:

4. Life of a "single" lion is really tough and the P.H. thought that this fellow was "betwixmt" being a member of a pride and getting his own, therefore having a hard time supporting himself.... and a quarter or two of zebra didn't hurt him much. I'd like to see a picture of the fellow after a week or two on the baits?

'

IF the above were the case, I would pass too....but only in this case. If the PH thought the pictured lion was well past his prime and on his way out, I would pass on the biggest, fattest, healthiest, blackest maned cat in the area and SHOOT THIS ONE! To pass on the most "ecologically responsible" lion to take for the sake of what are really relatively minor cosmetic issues seems a bit selfish and irresponsible to me. Better to make a rug out of this guy and for the next 40 years think about how you did right by the species.

tendrams,

I really like the way you think!

465H&H

I bet that the taxidermist could "fatten him up" some.

Keith

quote:

The concession is in Zimbabwe, non-fenced, famous for having reputable operaters (in other words, the lion is wild).

He has eaten one too many Zanu PF supporter. Those things will kill you

I would want to see more photos of that lion before I put a more precise age category on him...but I bet he is probably at least 5 or greater.

I don't necessarly see anything with this lion that says death is pending but he is in poor body contition for sure.

Cats can change body condition very quickly with the abundace of meat or the lack there-of.

He could be just having difficulty hunting with out a pride or he definitely could have a pathologic condition. TB is certainly a possibility with a myriad of other potential health problems.

That lion has a high possibility of being a shooter.

quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:
I bet that the taxidermist could "fatten him up" some.

Keith

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quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
I would want to see more photos of that lion before I put a more precise age category on him...but I bet he is probably at least 5 or greater.

I don't necessarly see anything with this lion that says death is pending but he is in poor body contition for sure.

Cats can change body condition very quickly with the abundace of meat or the lack there-of.

He could be just having difficulty hunting with out a pride or he definitely could have a pathologic condition. TB is certainly a possibility with a myriad of other potential health problems.

That lion has a high possibility of being a shooter.

or he could be at the end of a mating session

I would shoot him right now.