With so many injuries and accidents inherant to PH's and hunt staff, perhaps a compulsory fee is needed for all to invest and create an 'insurance' to assist those in dire need by organizations such as ZPHGA, etc.

Wow. This whole incident is obviously unfortunate but I have to say that the multiple threads of Monday morning quarterbacking and criticisms of Tim after the fact highlight one thing...like any other species, humans will prey on you when you are most vulnerable. Someone asking for help or you giving it does NOT buy you the right to publicly tear someone down. In my mind you either give with the idea that there are no strings or don't even bother because you are in it for the wrong reasons. Frankly, I'd love to see how effectively some on here would deal with their own professonal lives, inevitable emotional trauma, personal relationships, day to day financial obligations, and monetary obligations toward Stu. I wonder how many on various threads could meet their own professed standards of timeliness and effort and do so simultaneously in these varied spheres.. Further, and to be totally blunt, if the first post in this thread was made before contacting Tim privately to inquire, well...that is just low-rent rubbish.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Martin,

I would also think that as chairman of ZPHGA you would be tasked with dealing with issues in as professional and responsible a manner as possible. Assuming that to be the case (which I am sure it is and is typical of how I think you personally handle issues), why would you not reach out to Tim privately to express any concerns or to first verify information? Tim is accessible, here and by email. If Tim failed to respond or his responses were unacceptable, then you could make the decision to raise the issues here. Certainly I can understand the possible need to bring to the public certain information, as you suggest, but not until I first attempted to privately address any concerns and assure that I had my facts correct.

+1

That would certainly have been the classy and professional move.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by jjs:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Martin,

I would also think that as chairman of ZPHGA you would be tasked with dealing with issues in as professional and responsible a manner as possible. Assuming that to be the case (which I am sure it is and is typical of how I think you personally handle issues), why would you not reach out to Tim privately to express any concerns or to first verify information? Tim is accessible, here and by email. If Tim failed to respond or his responses were unacceptable, then you could make the decision to raise the issues here. Certainly I can understand the possible need to bring to the public certain information, as you suggest, but not until I first attempted to privately address any concerns and assure that I had my facts correct.

With all due respect why not send Martin a PM and deal with this in a PM?

It was an Accident, yet Tim is the person who is responsible for the Accident. If this happened in the US Tim would most likely be taking on all financial responsibility. Why should Tim's obligations be any different with respect to Stu?

Tim has used AR to promote his and his employers interest yet it seems there has been some failure to follow-up, communicate, and provide for Stu.....as someone noted above, possibly Tim or his employers should seek some professional advice/assistance on how to handle this and.....

It seems some here consider questioning Tim as sitting in Judgment. As someone stated above, God (and Courts) sit in Judgment and last time I checked neither was a Member of AR...but in my view it is reasonable to question actions or lack thereof, etc...

I think Martin Peters did the right thing to question what has been done and correctly addressed these issues to Tim in a forum that Tim has publically used in a variety of ways....

Someone asked that Stu come on AR and take part in this screw-up...Stu should be focused on this recovery and not subjected to any of this b.s....

Nothing wrong with looking out for Stu professionally, as a friend, or for any other reason........

That said much like Aaron Neilson found out with bringing up lion conservation on World Hunter's hunt report........there's a right way and a wrong way of going about doing things. The comment about Tim's supposed contributions this far was WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY out of line, WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY inappropriate, and quite frankly grossly unprofessional.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
Hey Mike, keep this up and maybe Tim will give you an autograph when you run into him @ DSC in January. Pathetic.

Martin,
don't let the hunting show lackies here deter you from doing what you think is right for Stu, your organization and the PH's you represent.

Tim,

quote:

originally posted by Martin Pieters:
FYI
To date Tim has put $ 1000 towards the donated funds!

quote:

originally posted by you:
Martin...that is not true at all...it is way more than that. I do not know where you got that number

quote:

originally posted by Martin Pieters:
The figures I have quoted are from Stu Taylor himself, they are not fabricated in any way, I am sure Stu has no reason to lie to his friends on where he stands financially.

Little known fact: Brad's middle name is Jesus, which accounts for his unerring judgement of others and ability to mercilessly criticize actions with little obvious information.

Same old.......

Brett

PS. I'll take a hat Tim.......

Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most times he will pick himself up and carry on. ~ Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most times he will pick himself up and carry on. ~ Winston Churchill

Apropriate quote, Andrew. From both perspectives.

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

quote:

Originally posted by jjs:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Martin,

I would also think that as chairman of ZPHGA you would be tasked with dealing with issues in as professional and responsible a manner as possible. Assuming that to be the case (which I am sure it is and is typical of how I think you personally handle issues), why would you not reach out to Tim privately to express any concerns or to first verify information? Tim is accessible, here and by email. If Tim failed to respond or his responses were unacceptable, then you could make the decision to raise the issues here. Certainly I can understand the possible need to bring to the public certain information, as you suggest, but not until I first attempted to privately address any concerns and assure that I had my facts correct.

With all due respect why not send Martin a PM and deal with this in a PM?

It was an Accident, yet Tim is the person who is responsible for the Accident. If this happened in the US Tim would most likely be taking on all financial responsibility. Why should Tim's obligations be any different with respect to Stu?

Tim has used AR to promote his and his employers interest yet it seems there has been some failure to follow-up, communicate, and provide for Stu.....as someone noted above, possibly Tim or his employers should seek some professional advice/assistance on how to handle this and.....

It seems some here consider questioning Tim as sitting in Judgment. As someone stated above, God (and Courts) sit in Judgment and last time I checked neither was a Member of AR...but in my view it is reasonable to question actions or lack thereof, etc...

I think Martin Peters did the right thing to question what has been done and correctly addressed these issues to Tim in a forum that Tim has publically used in a variety of ways....

Someone asked that Stu come on AR and take part in this screw-up...Stu should be focused on this recovery and not subjected to any of this b.s....

Nothing wrong with looking out for Stu professionally, as a friend, or for any other reason........

That said much like Aaron Neilson found out with bringing up lion conservation on World Hunter's hunt report........there's a right way and a wrong way of going about doing things. The comment about Tim's supposed contributions this far was WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY out of line, WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY inappropriate, and quite frankly grossly unprofessional.

Brett

Frankly, you have missed the point of my post...the first part was to note the contradiction, in suggesting the use of PMs....

My point about Martin was in regards to the initial post on this thread and not the post you note...

While your comments directed at Martin's other posts may have some merit (depending on actual facts), instead of putting more gasoline on this situaton don't you think that you should have provided Martin the opportunity to respond by PM and possibly clarify his comments?

Since he already posted on a public form I'm not sure it matters, but perhaps you are right. That said his second post was certainly not the most professional foot forward.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
With so many injuries and accidents inherant to PH's and hunt staff, perhaps a compulsory fee is needed for all to invest and create an 'insurance' to assist those in dire need by organizations such as ZPHGA, etc.

This is a constructive note and worthy of consideration....I would certainly be willing to pay extra for a Safari to fund such efforts.

Possibly this is something Tim could work with Martin towards...

quote:

Originally posted by jjs:

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

quote:

Originally posted by jjs:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Martin,

I would also think that as chairman of ZPHGA you would be tasked with dealing with issues in as professional and responsible a manner as possible. Assuming that to be the case (which I am sure it is and is typical of how I think you personally handle issues), why would you not reach out to Tim privately to express any concerns or to first verify information? Tim is accessible, here and by email. If Tim failed to respond or his responses were unacceptable, then you could make the decision to raise the issues here. Certainly I can understand the possible need to bring to the public certain information, as you suggest, but not until I first attempted to privately address any concerns and assure that I had my facts correct.

With all due respect why not send Martin a PM and deal with this in a PM?

It was an Accident, yet Tim is the person who is responsible for the Accident. If this happened in the US Tim would most likely be taking on all financial responsibility. Why should Tim's obligations be any different with respect to Stu?

Tim has used AR to promote his and his employers interest yet it seems there has been some failure to follow-up, communicate, and provide for Stu.....as someone noted above, possibly Tim or his employers should seek some professional advice/assistance on how to handle this and.....

It seems some here consider questioning Tim as sitting in Judgment. As someone stated above, God (and Courts) sit in Judgment and last time I checked neither was a Member of AR...but in my view it is reasonable to question actions or lack thereof, etc...

I think Martin Peters did the right thing to question what has been done and correctly addressed these issues to Tim in a forum that Tim has publically used in a variety of ways....

Someone asked that Stu come on AR and take part in this screw-up...Stu should be focused on this recovery and not subjected to any of this b.s....

Nothing wrong with looking out for Stu professionally, as a friend, or for any other reason........

That said much like Aaron Neilson found out with bringing up lion conservation on World Hunter's hunt report........there's a right way and a wrong way of going about doing things. The comment about Tim's supposed contributions this far was WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY out of line, WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY inappropriate, and quite frankly grossly unprofessional.

Brett

Frankly, you have missed the point of my post...the first part was to note the contradiction, in suggesting the use of PMs....

My point about Martin was in regards to the initial post on this thread and not the post you note...

While your comments directed at Martin's other posts may have some merit (depending on actual facts), instead of putting more gasoline on this situaton don't you think that you should have provided Martin the opportunity to respond by PM and possibly clarify his comments?

For Heaven's sake, Martin is the one that raised the issue publicly and not by PM. That was not the right way to handle the situation in my opinion, but once done to suggest that further comment should be by PM is asinine. That is akin to suggesting that someone can throw a turd in the punchbowl publicly but no one should be able to thereafter publicly point out that there is a turd in the punchbowl. C'mon now.

I said I was staying away from this...but I guess I need to make one other post...

most of the confusion of money, funds and how much Stu had received came from the fact that we had been told that money was being sent to Stu, then it was delayed. Conservation Force is really helping in this as we had not been able to find a way to actually get Stu the money before they stepped in because of the problems with Zim. They have been a great help, but the waiting to transfer funds after they told us they were being sent is the root of much of the confusion here. I am not nocking CF at all, they were trying to do things the best way they thought, and since we had been told money was being sent, I thought it was taken care of. Everyone is trying to help, there have just been some crossed wires...

now with all the back and forth...all I can say is I am doing all I can and will continue that no matter what anyone thinks. Below is from an email I received this morning from Stu after we had talked back and forth a little about all of this...We are friends, we know the real deal and real happenings of this situation, and everyone else's opinions are very much secondary.

"Tim I am really sorry to hear about the AR report, I to do not want this to turn ugly, and get blown out of proportion.
I don't go onto the AR websites I am not aware of the details of what Martin Pierters has written. It is for this very reason I don't go on these websites.
I truly appreciate everything you have done and are doing to try and help me. I to consider you a friend and I hope this will not jeopardise that, and I do understand what you have been going through since the ordeal as well.
Thank you for your prayers and all you are doing.
Cheers,
Stu "

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:

Exactly what this all is really about for you.

Pathetic Brad!!

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by jjs:

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

quote:

Originally posted by jjs:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Martin,

I would also think that as chairman of ZPHGA you would be tasked with dealing with issues in as professional and responsible a manner as possible. Assuming that to be the case (which I am sure it is and is typical of how I think you personally handle issues), why would you not reach out to Tim privately to express any concerns or to first verify information? Tim is accessible, here and by email. If Tim failed to respond or his responses were unacceptable, then you could make the decision to raise the issues here. Certainly I can understand the possible need to bring to the public certain information, as you suggest, but not until I first attempted to privately address any concerns and assure that I had my facts correct.

With all due respect why not send Martin a PM and deal with this in a PM?

It was an Accident, yet Tim is the person who is responsible for the Accident. If this happened in the US Tim would most likely be taking on all financial responsibility. Why should Tim's obligations be any different with respect to Stu?

Tim has used AR to promote his and his employers interest yet it seems there has been some failure to follow-up, communicate, and provide for Stu.....as someone noted above, possibly Tim or his employers should seek some professional advice/assistance on how to handle this and.....

It seems some here consider questioning Tim as sitting in Judgment. As someone stated above, God (and Courts) sit in Judgment and last time I checked neither was a Member of AR...but in my view it is reasonable to question actions or lack thereof, etc...

I think Martin Peters did the right thing to question what has been done and correctly addressed these issues to Tim in a forum that Tim has publically used in a variety of ways....

Someone asked that Stu come on AR and take part in this screw-up...Stu should be focused on this recovery and not subjected to any of this b.s....

Nothing wrong with looking out for Stu professionally, as a friend, or for any other reason........

That said much like Aaron Neilson found out with bringing up lion conservation on World Hunter's hunt report........there's a right way and a wrong way of going about doing things. The comment about Tim's supposed contributions this far was WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY out of line, WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY inappropriate, and quite frankly grossly unprofessional.

Brett

Frankly, you have missed the point of my post...the first part was to note the contradiction, in suggesting the use of PMs....

My point about Martin was in regards to the initial post on this thread and not the post you note...

While your comments directed at Martin's other posts may have some merit (depending on actual facts), instead of putting more gasoline on this situaton don't you think that you should have provided Martin the opportunity to respond by PM and possibly clarify his comments?

For Heaven's sake, Martin is the one that raised the issue publicly and not by PM. That was not the right way to handle the situation in my opinion, but once done to suggest that further comment should be by PM is asine.

All these "pot shots" taken only serve to make matters worse...provide nothing positive and are just flat wrong...rationalize what you will..

Calling any of my comments a "pot shot" aside from calling out Brad is a stretch.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:
Calling any of my comments a "pot shot" aside from calling out Brad is a stretch.

Brett

I was addressing MJines comments...

As far a 505 Gibbs (Brad), I find many of his posts on AR disgusting to say the least...usually just ignore much of what he posts

quote:

Little known fact: Brad's middle name is Jesus, which accounts for his unerring judgement of others and ability to mercilessly criticize actions with little obvious information.

Same old.......

Brett

Brett,
I find it ironic that you say the above right after you say this...

quote:

That said much like Aaron Neilson found out with bringing up lion conservation on World Hunter's hunt report........there's a right way and a wrong way of going about doing things. The comment about Tim's supposed contributions this far was WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY out of line, WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY inappropriate, and quite frankly grossly unprofessional.

Brett

Ironic, no? Perhaps you are the only one allowed to criticize the handling of this and other situations.

But you are right, it is the "Same old......", you and some of the other clowns around here always doing your best to muddy the waters so the original topic is lost in the shuffle. The fact that you and others are complaining about the forum chosen to air this problem diminishes and takes attention away from what is currently ongoing. Tim didn't have a fender bender with someone, he didn't accidentally knock someone down, he shot a man in the back with an elephant gun. Stu's life and at least 2 generations of his family have been affected forever. And the guy who did it, (before this was brought to light) hasn't even followed up to find out how the man is doing or if he is getting the aid that is being collected for him. You guys are dense, and completely focused on the wrong part of this story. What would you do if you blew a hole in another mans back, altering his life forever? Would you give until it hurt and you had nothing left to give? Or, would you go home, carry on with your life and not bother to try to mend the damage you have done? Despite your interpretation of my (and others) posts, I am not judging Tim, that will be done by the Lord right before he does the same to me (as long as it is in alphabetical order). However, I am not hesitant to tell Tim where I disagree with him, in hope that he will catch his snap, quit being so selfish and get after the real business at hand.

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:
Calling any of my comments a "pot shot" aside from calling out Brad is a stretch.

Brett


I was addressing MJines comments...

As far a 505 Gibbs (Brad), I find many of his posts on AR disgusting to say the least...usually just ignore much of what he posts

you 2 are morons, this thread is about a man that was shot by another man and before this thread had only recieved $2,500 in aid. You 2 dolts are focused on some asshole in Texas you don't agree with, genius.

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:
Calling any of my comments a "pot shot" aside from calling out Brad is a stretch.

Brett


I was addressing MJines comments...

As far a 505 Gibbs (Brad), I find many of his posts on AR disgusting to say the least...usually just ignore much of what he posts

you 2 are morons, this thread is about a man that was shot by another man and before this thread had only recieved $2,500 in aid. You 2 dolts are focused on some asshole in Texas you don't agree with, genius.

Comprehension and the ability to follow posts here must not be one of your strong suits...the name calling, I just attribute that to what you seem to be lacking....

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
You 2 dolts are focused on some asshole in Texas you don't agree with, genius.

Perceptive!!

Right, an asshole that contributed financially to address Stu's situation which I am confident cannot be said for many if not most of the peanut gallery on this thread. If we had $10 for everyone that has an opinion that they are unwilling to back up with their wallet, Stu would have no financial worries for several years.

I asked 505gibbs a good long time ago whether he stepped up to do his part financially, his silence is telling. Always easier to be part of the problem than part of the solution.

Brad I suggest you find some positive outlet for your "energy" like Lion's Club, Rotary, Ruritans, Big Brothers Big Sisters or something similar. Hanging on internet forums to poke sticks in people's eyes for entertainment and fun is pathetic. Jim had that right.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
..the possibility of getting shot are hazards of the trade of a PH.

Theres a saying in aviation,..which is also appropriate to other areas in life;

'if you cannot afford the maintenance, then how can you afford an accident?'

maintenance is a form of insurance,...and insurance is a form of maintenance.

It is ones own responsibility to ensure one is covered for risk/loss/mishap....

People comprehensively insure their Lamborgnini in order to cover the cost of damage/loss suffered when;
- their wife crashes it,
- flood,hailstorm damages it,
- half-blind financially poor old lady accidently runs into them,
- a purely malicious asshole runs a carKey across the paintwork or steals and wrecks it.

In the case where Boddingtons daughter accidently shot the dog handler on a Leopard hunt, the dog handler should be covered by an insurance policy implemented by his employer... a policy that should also cover the employee in the event of being mauled/injured or killed by the wild animal.

Tim used this forum to raise money- which apparently is taking quite a while to reach Stu. i see nothing wrong with Martin using the same forum to enquire as to WHERE THE MONEY IS!! IF IT'S GOOD FOR THE GOOSE, IT'S GOOD FOR THE GANDER.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Tim used this forum to raise money- which apparently is taking quite a while to reach Stu. i see nothing wrong with Martin using the same forum to enquire

If ZPHGA posted here before simply contacting Tim, that is like a client dragging an outfitter through the mud before trying to work it out one on one. To me it is Jr. High low rent bullshit.....unless of course we place PHs on such a pedastal that they are subject to different social rules.

The facts remain that Stu was shot, a fund for Stu was created using AR to promote it and several months later Stu has not received the money other than the $2500.00

Instead of killing the messenger, those who donated should be asking why their donations have not arrived and most important why is Stu not being receiving the money intended to help him. It is not the difficult to wire money to Zim. We do it regularly to pay for hunts.

Once again, this thread has experienced a complete tangent to it's origional content. Leave the blame game out of it......................................

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:
The facts remain that Stu was shot, a fund for Stu was created using AR to promote it and several months later Stu has not received the money other than the $2500.00

Instead of killing the messenger, those who donated should be asking why their donations have not arrived and most important why is Stu not being receiving the money intended to help him. It is not the difficult to wire money to Zim. We do it regularly to pay for hunts.

All Tim had to do is state I am doing everything I can both financially and emotionally to correct what has happened and unfortunately it may not be enough and if you find it in your heart to lend a hand in whatever ways that can help and hopefully I can repay you someday or whenever should are tracks cross

This is a painful thread to read. IMO, raamw has hit the nail right on the head with the below statement that is only three lines long.

Tim seems to be a a wonderful guy who is going through the worst experience of his life...Stu's wounds will heal and he will get through this financially as well, but Tim will never live this down and it will haunt him till the day he dies.

I think that what is bothering allot of people here...the 800lb Gorilla in the room...is that Tim is NOT articulating clearly enough on what HIS personal financial contributions are and that he is soliciting funds for his mistake while continuing to conduct his own hunting trips, etc etc.

I have expressed my condolances to Tim over several PM's and I can tell you that this is not the case and that he is suffering his own personal hell, but the perception becomes the reality in time.

I think that Tim should take the time to heed raamw's advice and articulate what his personal sacrifices have been and clear this mess up once and for all.

Some here may think that Tim's contributions are a private matter, but when you solicite funds on a public forum for your own mistake you are making your personal situation a public one.

I am writing this after reading the entire thread only with the intention of lending my advice/opinion for resolving a terrible situation.

Tim I wish you all the best!

quote:

Originally posted by raamw:
All Tim had to do is state I am doing everything I can both financially and emotionally to correct what has happened and unfortunately it may not be enough and if you find it in your heart to lend a hand in whatever ways that can help and hopefully I can repay you someday or whenever should are tracks cross

All this debate as to whether Tim is a "sinner" or "saint" is a fucking sideshow... the real question is have YOU as an African hunter done your part and given something to Stu's fund? Or Owain's? Or Ant's? Or Wayne's? All the other bullshit is a bunch of old lady rants criticizing each other! It is a "I am holier than thou" attitude and mindset. Each of us has a responsibility if you truly believe you are "one of us" in the African hunting fraternity. The rest is white noise and smoke screens.

Damn and I swore I wouldn't get caught up in these threads...

quote:

Originally posted by bwanamrm:
All this debate as to is Tim a "sinner" or "saint" is a fucking sideshow... the real question is have YOU as an African hunter done your part and given something to Stu's fund? Or Owain's? Or Ant's? Or Wayne's? All the other bullshit is a bunch of old ladies rants criticizing each other! It is a "I am holier than thou" attitude. Each of us has a responsibility if you truly believe you are "one of us" in the African hunting fraternity. The rest is white noise and smoke screens.

Damn and I swore I wouldn't get caught up in these threads...

+1

+2

Very true.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
With so many injuries and accidents inherant to PH's and hunt staff, perhaps a compulsory fee is needed for all to invest and create an 'insurance' to assist those in dire need by organizations such as ZPHGA, etc.

I think this is actually an excellent idea - given the large pool of professionals ( PH's, camp staff, cameramen, etc) in that country it would seem that such self-insurance would be a pretty good option, if there is no other reasonable staff insurance available. I am sure the companies involved (collectively) could easily manage such a fund.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
With so many injuries and accidents inherant to PH's and hunt staff, perhaps a compulsory fee is needed for all to invest and create an 'insurance' to assist those in dire need by organizations such as ZPHGA, etc.

I think this is actually an excellent idea - given the large pool of professionals ( PH's, camp staff, cameramen, etc) in that country it would seem that such self-insurance would be a pretty good option, if there is no other reasonable staff insurance available. I am sure the companies involved (collectively) could easily manage such a fund.

Great in theory but almost impossible in practice.

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Tim,

Here is one idea: auction off the hunts you have lined up for your TV shows. You can still get a show in, and the money can go straight to Stu. I am sure some would love to see their hunts on TV. It might even improve the number of viewers if it was known those on the show bought the hunt to help Stu.

For that matter, other TV personalities could do the same.

Just a thought...

That sounds like a very good idea to me.

Seems interesting only Lhook7 thought this was a good idea. If you think about it, it would generate enough income to pay for Stu's healthcare and loss of wages. Hell, one lion hunt with Stu next year would come close to paying the whole thing.

Tim, you asked for ideas, well, here is one of them.

I think Martin's professional duty is to the members of his organisation. If the post prompted enquiries to see what was happening and why funds had not been transferred I think it was a worthwhile thing to do. Obviously Stuart Taylor has bills to pay, medical and also living expenses. I don't think many African countries have disability pension schemes ...

As for the post here or not, if the matters were part of a speech at the annual dinner of the association, then it is a public matter already. And LOTS of PH's would be aware of it, and next to nothing having been paid to the beneficiary to date.

What would someone be paid in compensation if this incident happened to an American hunting guide in the USA? I personally have no idea?

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
With so many injuries and accidents inherant to PH's and hunt staff, perhaps a compulsory fee is needed for all to invest and create an 'insurance' to assist those in dire need by organizations such as ZPHGA, etc.

I think this is actually an excellent idea - given the large pool of professionals ( PH's, camp staff, cameramen, etc) in that country it would seem that such self-insurance would be a pretty good option, if there is no other reasonable staff insurance available. I am sure the companies involved (collectively) could easily manage such a fund.

Great in theory but almost impossible in practice.

If it is another fee to the client, I disagree with another new "fee". These accidents are quite rare and often partly negligence. Not commenting on the specific persons of this thread at all. I think it is the responsibility of the client, PH and outfitter to take their own personal insurance out, as much as they see it is important or not, affordability or not. There are insurance policies available for clients - travel policies which do cover hunting, I normally try to get one when hunting and travelling, also PHs can get insurance as well. But they can be very expensive, and some can not afford them. Eg if an appy PH gets $25 a day income, no way could they afford it. A PH on $125 to $250 a day could be difficult too. If a company or person is involved in a commercial activity, such as making a video for sale, it would be prudent for that company to ensure they have proper insurance cover for hunting.

Hell bells, if hunting on a stud farm, and I have, where thoroughbred horses or stud bulls or rams are pastured, the bill for shooting one of them by accident can be tens of thousands, to hundreds of thousands of dollars (or possibly millions), let alone a human being. Shooting a human being would probably see the shooter end up defending their actions and the facts in a criminal court.

NitroX:


"Hell bells, if hunting on a stud farm, and I have, where thoroughbred horses or stud bulls or rams are pastured, the bill for shooting one of them by accident can be tens of thousands, to hundreds of thousands of dollars (or possibly millions), let alone a human being. Shooting a human being would probably see the shooter end up defending their actions and the facts in a criminal court."



From some of the postings (quite a few) there are people who don't think this way.

Not to stray off topic, but I saw someone post Ant's name regarding a similar issue. Can someone please enlighten me here or via PM? thanks.