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One of Us |
So are these official then? If one is leaving on a hunt that he already booked for Agust, say on a 10 day buff hunt, what is the new total cost for a buffalo now? licence & trophy fees. jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Man, a lot of you guys sound like Hillary Clinton. The rich should pay more. Right and wrong has nothing to do with economic class. They can't have safaris sold at a particular price and then just up and change them for no aparent reason whether it is Tanzania or the lowest of the low end hunts. I have completely paid for the daily rates for a 21 day hunt in Tanzania that my son and I are taking in September. I am not panicking until this all gets sorted out. It doesn't taken a genius to figure out that this will devastate the safari industry in 2007. I am thinking/hoping that this ends up like last years lion hunting closure. This kind of BS is why one should buy trip cancellation insurance. | |||
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I sent my email off to the director of wildlife. I have a hunt planned in 2009 in masailand and the selous for 21 days. As it stood I was planning on spending approx. 30,000 USD on trophy fee's, that along with my daily rate which was high to begin with. With this increase Botswana looks more favorable, since I don't have to spend 21 days and can get most the species I want in a shorter amount of time. There are some species i.e. lesser kudu which I have wanted to hunt, but if push comes to shove I will bo elsewhere. Always someone willing to take our money and give us value for it. | |||
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By "They" if you mean the operators, those that have their asses covered in their terms and conditions of the contract between client and operator clearly state that they have no control over govt fees. If by "They" you mean the TZ govt THEY can do whatever THEY want. If history proves anything it's that the Africans are in charge and what they do can certainly defy logic and common sense, even be detrimental and destructive and they do it anyway. Then they may or may not reverse it. This is typical. | |||
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I ain't weeping yet, but dang, I can't afford what this will do to fees and daily rates! I guess my trailer needs a caveat: "Hopefully, wistfully... with my fingers crossed, I am.... JudgeG ... just counting time 'til I am again finding balm in Gilead chilled out somewhere in the Selous. | |||
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....i am sure the Tz. Wildlife Dep. will get there bill very soon.....there are also other Hunting Countrys in Africa ! Seloushunter Nec Timor Nec Temeritas | |||
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From Bwanamitch
Thats the mature Problem IMO Seloushunter Nec Timor Nec Temeritas | |||
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No new word from over there? I sure hope this is not to be. Although cartridge selection is important there is nothing that will substitute for proper first shot placement. Good hunting, "D" | |||
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There is a lot of work going on by TAHOA! The primary objective is to seek a court injuction that halts the directive of the price increases. This is being sought on the basis that the Ministry and TAHOA reached and signed a consensus back in 1995 whereby the Ministry would have to give a notice period of at least 9 months for any envisioned Gov price increase. This they have not done. The DoW (Director of Wildlife) as also confirmed that any Gov directive has, BY LAW, a 21 day notice period. Within this 21 day period, fees, prices remain the same, according to him. Very confusing as the directive states that it is retro-active to 1st July!!!! Seems he is more confused than anyone else  The good news is that they are issuing hunting permits and the general feeling is that this will continue until the 21 day notice period they referred to expires! afterwhich, if no injunction has taken place, you must pay the balance fo fees in order to apply for a hunting permit. There should be more news by weeks end on the sought injunction. "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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Of course...TIA. _______________________________  | |||
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There goes any chance I had at a 2009 safari. I have also sent an e-mail to the director. "There are worse memorials to a life well-lived than a pair of elephant tusks." Robert Ruark | |||
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Well, I might be wrong, but I am guessing that the wildlife dept saw that some operators were jacking up their trophy fees anyway, so they just wanted a piece of the action. Kinda like shooting yourself in the foot... | |||
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All of you who have been writing to the Director would you please send the same email or copy any new email to TAHOA. I would not be the least suprised if the director "never" received your mails  emails to TAHOA to be sent to following addresses: alm@cats-net.com and scl@raha.com and gft@raha.com "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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E-letter sent! | |||
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I have official word from my safari company that our September safari is going forward at the prices quoted no matter what the government does. However any 2008 safaris will reflect new pricing. | |||
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How many of you have a offical letter from your Agent / Outfitter in TZ that the prices stays the same for 2007 ? Seloushunter Nec Timor Nec Temeritas | |||
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From the SCI Crosshairs SCI Pres at Tanzania Gala in US SCI President Dennis Anderson attended The Africa-American Institute Gala Dinner honoring the President of Tanzania H.E. Jakaya Mrisho Kikwete in New York on September 19th. The black tie affair was also attended by several Tanzania Officials and Anderson was able to meet with Jumanne A. Maghembe (MP) the Tanzania Minister for Natural Resources & Tourism and discuss current issues & challenges facing the Safari Community. Seloushunter Nec Timor Nec Temeritas | |||
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This topic started 11 July and was "hot" until 22 July. Then NOTHING was posted until 23 September. What really happened? Did TAHOA succeed in any way to get the TZ Government to change the implementation date? What is the report-back from hunters that actually hunted there in July, August and September? What was the final outcome for hunters still booked in October onwards? Just interested and would like to know. In good hunting. Andrew McLaren Andrew McLaren Professional Hunter and Hunting Outfitter since 1974. http://www.mclarensafaris.com The home page to go to for custom planning of ethical and affordable hunting of plains game in South Africa! Enquire about any South African hunting directly from andrew@mclarensafaris.com After a few years of participation on forums, I have learned that: One can cure: Lack of knowledge – by instruction. Lack of skills – by practice. Lack of experience – by time doing it. One cannot cure: Stupidity – nothing helps! Anti hunting sentiments – nothing helps! Put-‘n-Take Outfitters – money rules! My very long ago ancestors needed and loved to eat meat. Today I still hunt! | |||
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I wonder if any SCI execs will be doing particularly nice safaris in Tanzania next season ... | |||
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We leave the third and basically know nothing for sure. Supposedly the 30th Sept deadline for paying the new concession fees has been extended until Dec. 30th, but no one knows for sure yet. We are going on faith alone at this point. Larry Shores is there now but I haven't heard anything from him since he left on the 4th of Sept. In eleven days our wait will be over one way or another. joec | |||
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Writen by joec Supposedly the 30th Sept deadline for paying the new concession fees has been extended until Dec. 30th, but no one knows for sure yet. I spoke yesterday with a well known TZ hunting operator.Nothing is comfirmed in written yet that that the new Trophy fees will be extended until Dec. negotiations between TAHOA and the Minister will continue on Tuesday. Lets hope... Seloushunter Nec Timor Nec Temeritas | |||
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Basically our Tanzania hunts (PVT) 1x1 buffalo hunts will go form $13,550 to $15,550 and 2x1 from $11,550 to $13,550 for 2008. Our 21 day hunts will go from $39,990 to about $42,000. Not good, but not unrealistic either. That equates to about an average of $2000 per hunt as it now stands, and that is not historically dramatic..BTW most of my Alaska, Canadain hunts for a couple of species are right in that price range. Trophy fees on average looks like they mostly went up about $100 to $150 per animal, and some will remain the same.. Lion and Elephant went sky high, but if you check around you will see that even with the increase in the trophy bull prices they are still compatible with the rest of Africa and we have been killing some real monster bulls that compare to anywhere in Africa( you cannot and never have been able to shoot cow elephant in Tanzania). Lions are high, but that will be the coming thing in Africa as the populations are dwindling and this will probably become a means by which to control that species IMO.. Daily rates increased also but I don't have that figure in front of me, but again most that are serious can deal with it.. I don't see this as a catastrophy as I have been seeing kinds of incresses over the years and nobody complained about them in the past, mostly caused by the cost of fuel in the past. If you approach this realistically then most of you who could afford a hunt in 2006, will be able to deal with it. Actually one has little choice but to live with it or just not go, and that's the bottom line. I don't like anymore than the rest of you as our concession fees hit us a $40,000 lick this year, but like you, we will deal with it or get out of Dodge, we chose to tough it out... We live in a world of change, prices will go up, and I suspect fuel will continue to go up, flights will get higher, and cost of hunting will continue to rise all over African and the world..Where it will end is anybodys guess. Just an honest and realistic approach sans all the emotion. I'm sure its argueable with some, and so be it.. NOTE: Should pricing be changed by the Tanz. gov. then all clients will be refunded the difference and pay the old costs of safari..I just don't see that coming, as it looks like a done deal to me, and the 3rd world does not operate like we do....I hopw I am wrong, but I can't see them refunded our $40,000!  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I went and paid the "new" rates.... left a deposit for another. JMHO of the whole mess. JudgeG ... just counting time 'til I am again finding balm in Gilead chilled out somewhere in the Selous. | |||
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Writen by Ray
Consession owner of Block R2 and R4 where PVT usally hunts is Intercon and you think the Naivasha Family has already paid the bill..... Seloushunter Nec Timor Nec Temeritas | |||
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A crucial meeting, the first of several, will take place tomorrow between TAHOA and MNRT. 1st item on the agenda is the confirmation that the postponement of the 30th Sept deadline to 31st December for operators to pay outstanding block and game fees (based on new fees)will be effected. Our understanding is that we will be informed "officially" tomorrow on this postponement. 2nd Item on the agenda is the withdrawal of the GN 159 for 2007 season. 3rd item is A.O.B. which will involve all sorts of things and scenarios. The sun has not yet set for 2007 and approx 95% of the operators HAVE NOT paid any of the block or new game fees and are standing firm with TAHOA's directive on this. "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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Wasn't one of the objectives of the Tanzanian gov't change in policy was that there were too many middlemen and the middlemen were making money the Tanzanian gov't thought should be theirs, especially comparing their "take" to other countries. So 100% of the price increases is being passed on? | |||
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Bwanamich wrote
Wonder how can you get a New Hunting Permit without paying the trophy fees from July to September Safaris. The Wildlife Dept. must by out of Money... Seloushunter  Nec Timor Nec Temeritas | |||
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They are indeed out of money! Their fault....some operators have made arrangements whereby they settle game fees based on previous rates while they wait the end of the current negotiations..... "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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Another Meeting between TAHOA and Authoritys are sheduled for 9.10.2007 than we know mayby more... Seloushunter Nec Timor Nec Temeritas | |||
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Next meeting is 9th Oct. 2 positives so far from 1st meeting but can´t disclose for now. "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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I am just back today. I left 4 days early to deal with business issues. This thing is a mess. Most of us who went are somewhat at risk. Personally, I was charged the old trophy fees. My safari company had ALREADY paid the new block fees. The only thing I learned is that it is being worked on by powerful people. Assistants to the president have contacted certainly politically well connected PH's for their view. THOA has retaied a powerful lawyer to sue the government. The word I got is that this attorney thinks they will absolutely win. Did this impact my hunt. Absolutely. I passed on 5 lions that were marginal because of this. Further,early in my hunt, I saw the biggest elephant I have ever seen in Tanzania. The PH was a little iffy on whether it was legal. I passed to avoid a potential $30,000 fee. There is a minimumof $9,000 that the government didn't get. | |||
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Sorry to hear that Larry. Do you have plans to return to Tanz at this point? Can you elaborate on what you meant by the large elephant being questionable? _______________________________ | |||
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Yes, why was it borderline legal? | |||
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I just returned Monday night from Tanzania. I'm pretty sure that the fine for an under-age lion, too "short" a leopard or an under-length or under-weight elephant is 2.5 times the trophy fee... plus the regular trophy fee, of course. I'd pass, also, if I had the slightest hesitation... and keep my tens of thousands of dollars (that I don't have anyway). I think that the community development fee is multiplied, also??? JudgeG ... just counting time 'til I am again finding balm in Gilead chilled out somewhere in the Selous. | |||
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I was confused because Larry is no stranger to Tanz and he says it was the largest he has seen there. I had a mental picture of something big not being legal for some reason. Larry, how big was it? _______________________________ | |||
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I also made the decision to go after elephant first even though Clinton had a nice lion coming to bait. Since I got my elephant I decided that if the new fees were to come into effect the lion was out of reach for me. With Pierre, we worked out the trophy fees in the old prices, that I paid, and in the new prices. If the gov't does not recind their new fees for this year I will be paying the new prices, so there is no suprizes for me. All in all I still would not have cancelled this year as I have memories which are priceless. If you have that much to fight for, then you should be fighting. The sentiment that modern day ordinary Canadians do not need firearms for protection is pleasant but unrealistic. To discourage responsible deserving Canadians from possessing firearms for lawful self-defence and other legitimate purposes is to risk sacrificing them at the altar of political correctness." - Alberta Provincial Court Judge Demetrick    | |||
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Dont forget this is Africa and you never know how it will end... Seloushunter Nec Timor Nec Temeritas | |||
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I don't know why the American "hunting industry" doesn't take the Tanzanian government to court in the USA. If an American client signs a contract with a legally licenced Tanzanian outfitter whom has rights to hunt in a region of Tanzania, and this outfitter is a member of the Tanz outfitters assoc he would have a right to rely on the agreements made between the Outfitters Association and the Tanzanian gov't ie no retrospectivity for price increases and a minimum period for notice for price increases. Irrespective of the contract stating gov't prices are not fixed. As the increase has to fit within agreements already made. As the Tanzanian gov't has breached its own agreements, it should compensate American clients for price increases. Maybe those SCI execs mentioned in this thread meeting the Tanz President could arrange such an action or a ban at Tanzanian outfitters exhibiting at Safari shows. JMO. Whether in any way possible or realistic I don't know. | |||
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Why ban Tz outfitters from any show UNLESS they have breached your safari contract?? "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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